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Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:12 AM

At the risk of offending, I don't think Christians can be trusted

Last edited Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:53 AM - Edit history (1)

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by DonViejo (a host of the General Discussion forum).

Just delete this thread if it crosses the line, but I'm sick of my so-called "Christian" relatives who ignore lies, pollution, bigotry, racism, etc., because they obviously think it's good for the propagation of their religion. In the long run it's not, of course, but these are self-centered people who believe that the entire universe was structured for themselves. Here's the dangerous part: no sin is too great because in the final analysis all it takes for an eternity of happiness is to accept as your "savior" some entity of dubious historicity. The ends justify the means, and there are numerous examples of that principle in the Bible... from Moses to David to God, himself. They don't see themselves as hypocrites because they adhere to the single purpose of salvation, regardless of earthly devices.

Am I a bigot, too, for this opinion?

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Reply At the risk of offending, I don't think Christians can be trusted (Original post)
Goodheart Feb 2019 OP
ChazII Feb 2019 #1
TheBlackAdder Feb 2019 #59
RichardRay Feb 2019 #83
TheBlackAdder Feb 2019 #86
treestar Feb 2019 #2
rainin Feb 2019 #29
UpInArms Feb 2019 #3
treestar Feb 2019 #9
UpInArms Feb 2019 #100
SidDithers Feb 2019 #14
PJMcK Feb 2019 #55
Mariana Feb 2019 #23
onecaliberal Feb 2019 #43
Mariana Feb 2019 #47
onecaliberal Feb 2019 #49
Mariana Feb 2019 #105
Salviati Feb 2019 #58
violetpastille Feb 2019 #93
Baconator Feb 2019 #25
UpInArms Feb 2019 #99
Fresh_Start Feb 2019 #4
Andy823 Feb 2019 #15
Mariana Feb 2019 #24
brer cat Feb 2019 #5
scheming daemons Feb 2019 #6
SammyWinstonJack Feb 2019 #19
SidDithers Feb 2019 #30
lapucelle Feb 2019 #35
smirkymonkey Feb 2019 #40
RKP5637 Feb 2019 #68
sarisataka Feb 2019 #76
MineralMan Feb 2019 #7
Kablooie Feb 2019 #85
MineralMan Feb 2019 #87
Empowerer Feb 2019 #8
theophilus Feb 2019 #10
raging moderate Feb 2019 #33
theophilus Feb 2019 #80
jcmaine72 Feb 2019 #11
superpatriotman Feb 2019 #12
CanisCrocinus Feb 2019 #13
SidDithers Feb 2019 #16
harumph Feb 2019 #17
maxrandb Feb 2019 #18
WhiteTara Feb 2019 #20
WeekiWater Feb 2019 #21
Mariana Feb 2019 #22
Jake Stern Feb 2019 #26
rainin Feb 2019 #36
USALiberal Feb 2019 #82
jberryhill Feb 2019 #27
SHRED Feb 2019 #28
Wounded Bear Feb 2019 #31
EX500rider Feb 2019 #72
Wounded Bear Feb 2019 #92
walkingman Feb 2019 #32
rainin Feb 2019 #34
Oneironaut Feb 2019 #37
hughee99 Feb 2019 #38
Shrek Feb 2019 #42
hughee99 Feb 2019 #45
workinclasszero Feb 2019 #39
vdogg Feb 2019 #41
Goodheart Feb 2019 #61
SidDithers Feb 2019 #69
Post removed Feb 2019 #44
cwydro Feb 2019 #97
sarisataka Feb 2019 #46
Cold War Spook Feb 2019 #48
Goodheart Feb 2019 #50
Mr. Quackers Feb 2019 #57
gibraltar72 Feb 2019 #51
CrispyQ Feb 2019 #52
northoftheborder Feb 2019 #53
Mr. Quackers Feb 2019 #60
Jake Stern Feb 2019 #74
Mr. Quackers Feb 2019 #81
Jake Stern Feb 2019 #91
Goodheart Feb 2019 #64
DetlefK Feb 2019 #54
Loki Liesmith Feb 2019 #56
backtoblue Feb 2019 #62
Goodheart Feb 2019 #65
backtoblue Feb 2019 #70
PeeJ52 Feb 2019 #63
LanternWaste Feb 2019 #66
pandr32 Feb 2019 #67
TygrBright Feb 2019 #71
RKP5637 Feb 2019 #73
KansasKali Feb 2019 #75
milestogo Feb 2019 #84
GoCubsGo Feb 2019 #77
Thomas Hurt Feb 2019 #78
LiberalFighter Feb 2019 #79
bluestarone Feb 2019 #88
Deb Feb 2019 #89
Caliman73 Feb 2019 #90
LiberalFighter Feb 2019 #94
Nonhlanhla Feb 2019 #95
Blue_true Feb 2019 #96
yortsed snacilbuper Feb 2019 #98
stopbush Feb 2019 #101
moriah Feb 2019 #102
mcar Feb 2019 #103
Soxfan58 Feb 2019 #104
DonViejo Feb 2019 #106

Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:16 AM

1. Interesting

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Response to ChazII (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:45 AM

59. As a former one, who is now shifting from agnosticism to atheism, Christ has become an empty vessel

.

to inject whatever perversions. While there were the odd 20th Century Pentecosts and later Charismatics, who shifted to a two-stage Baptism, the biggest loss of Christianity came when the Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy was adopted by over 300 ministers. Prior to this time, Innerantists were considered outliers and cultish. Due to pressures of church competition, this belief then spread to the mainstream churches.

The main problem is that there are over 300 errors in the Bible, so it can't be divinely created, or with the Inerrantists, now changing it to Devinely Inspired. So, to get around this, they have to invent fictitious backstories to try and explain away the errors, or just tell congregants to accept the errors, if one should ever mention them. There was pressure at Bob Jones and other universities and churches to force this bullshit onto the educated clergy, doctors of theology and researchers. Almost none of them would subscribe to such tripe, so they were issued an ultimatum, either subscribe to it, or get fired. Most either quit or were fired, causing a brain drain in the church. This was filled with charlatans and hacks who would make up shit along the way.

Their goal shifted from selling God & Christ and making a profit -to- make a profit by selling God & Christ. Whatever to fill the church coffers and their pockets. There are now over 4500 Christian Churches in the USA, because many of these pastors want to control their own flocks and fleece them without others judging them or taking part of the proceeds. Since mainline Catholic and Protestant churches were experiencing loss of members, they started to adopt more of these diverse views, such as inerrancy and the speaking of tongues. While Charismatics view tongues as a brief occurrence to send a message to the congregation, Penetcosts believe that once this happens, the Holy Spirit forever lives within you and whatever you do is sanctioned by God and you will always sit by the right side of Jesus in the afterlife. They view themselves as having a free pass to essentially do whatever. Those, in their church who do not speak must have some reason why the Spirit is not entering them. This leads to competition to pretend to speak to join the club.

As far as the congregants, they are taught to just believe and not to question, leading over a generation to people who just accept whatever shit they are told. This is where we are now.

.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #59)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 12:13 PM

83. Christian vs. Christianist

Just like Islamic vs. Islamist

One is a matter of belief, the other a matter of politics.

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Response to RichardRay (Reply #83)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 12:22 PM

86. Congregants view themselves as Christians when they are willingly strapped to leads by Christianists

.



.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:19 AM

2. The extremist ones

Who don’t care about the earth because it is the end times anyway. Hopefully that is a minority.

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Response to treestar (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 10:39 AM

29. Not extremist Christians only.

My mom fits this OP description perfectly and she is mainstream by every measure IMO. She is 84, so I take some comfort in hoping the younger generation will make the beliefs of her tribe inconsequential.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:27 AM

3. The ones who do that are not Christian

They are hypochristians

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Response to UpInArms (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:36 AM

9. Good word

Hypochristians

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Response to treestar (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 01:04 PM

100. Feel free to use it as your own

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Response to UpInArms (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:46 AM

14. No, they're Christians...nt

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #14)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:43 AM

55. Excellent, Sid! (n/t)

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Response to UpInArms (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 10:21 AM

23. Sure they are.

There's no reason to suppose their faith in Christ is not genuine.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #23)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:01 AM

43. There is a reason. They do not follow his teachings or his example.

They have hijacked the religion in much the same way the taliban hijacked Islam.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #43)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:27 AM

47. Then what are they, exactly?

Most of them believe the basic tenets of most Christian sects - that Jesus was the son of God, performed miracles, was crucified, resurrected, ascended to Heaven, and forgives sins.

You don't agree with the way they interpret his teachings, but that doesn't make them non-Christians.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #47)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:29 AM

49. Yes it does make them non Christians.

Going to church and saying you’re a Christian doesn’t make you one any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #49)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 01:20 PM

105. So, all rotten people are non-Christians, by definition?

That sounds pretty bigoted to me.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #47)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:44 AM

58. They're just kind of shitty people

They're christians because their parents were christian, or because that's what most people are in the US. If the US were majority Hindu, then they'd be Hindu, if majority Muslim, then they'd be Muslim, but in all those cases they'd likely still be kind of shitty people.

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Response to Salviati (Reply #58)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 12:45 PM

93. Agree. "I don't think shitty people can be trusted".

The shitty people I have met have come from many countries and beliefs.

Christians are not even particularly well represented in that group.



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Response to UpInArms (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 10:33 AM

25. They'd say the same about you probably...

It's textbook "No true Scotsman" and you're all whatever you say you are.

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Response to Baconator (Reply #25)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 01:04 PM

99. I have met a great many of these people in my rural community

When they introduce themselves and very quickly proclaim their “Christianity”, I know it is similar to when someone says “it’s not about money”

I make no claim ... if my life does not reflect my beliefs, I am an imposter ...

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:28 AM

4. I would say that the overall qualify of Christians has dropped during its love affair with the GOP

there are still many wonderful Christians who I would trust with the lives of my children
but others I wouldn't trust to hang up my coat

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:50 AM

15. I agree

Anyone can "claim" to be a Christian, but that doesn't mean anything. Even trump "claim" to be one, but his actions say otherwise. Many of those so called Christians that support trump only want the end of times to come. The earth will be destroyed and they will be the only ones saved by one means or another, and they will rebuild the earth in their own view of how things should be.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 10:30 AM

24. I don't think that's true.

The entire history of Christianity tells of Christians doing horrible things to people in the name of their religion. The stories say even the Apostles, who knew Jesus personally, used violence and fear to control the congregation - read the story of Ananias and Sapphira in the Book of Acts Chapter 5.

The only thing that can be said about Christians, is that the word Christian tells you nothing about what kind of person you're dealing with.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:29 AM

5. It sounds more like you have a problem with your relatives

than with all Christians. Maybe you need to expand your exposure. Most large groups of people have "good" and "bad" members, but to paint them all with the same brush is bigotry imo.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:30 AM

6. Personally, I don't trust anyone who is devoutly religious

 

It tells me several things about a person.

A. They accept mythology as fact.
B. They reject the scientific method.
C. They are gullible.


If a book of mythology written 2000 years ago is the driving force of your life, then ... call me a bigot if you want... you are intellectually lazy, easily duped, And not someone I want in charge of anything that impacts my life.

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Response to scheming daemons (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 10:00 AM

19. +1000000!

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Response to scheming daemons (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 10:43 AM

30. +1...



Sid

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Response to scheming daemons (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 10:50 AM

35. ...

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Response to scheming daemons (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 10:55 AM

40. +1000

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Response to scheming daemons (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:53 AM

68. K&R !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! n/t

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Response to scheming daemons (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 12:03 PM

76. I am a Christian...

"I am a Christian, and I am a devout Christian. I believe in the redemptive deathand resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe that faith gives me a path to be cleansed of sin and have eternal life."

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:31 AM

7. Christians come in many flavors.

There are thousands of Christian denominations out there. They are very different from each other, as are the people who belong to them. It's wrong to lump all Christians into one category.

As an atheist, I accept people's claims of being Christians. It's not up to me to decide who is and who isn't one. What I do is look at their behavior as individuals and judge them that way. There are Christians I admire and Christians I detest, based on their behavior.

Christianity is not just one thing. It's a whole department store of things. Choose your department carefully.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 12:15 PM

85. I agree but...

The extremist Christian sects are growing in political influence and seek to control other peoples lives. As a result they are tarring the reputations of all Christians. (And the Catholic sexual scandals don't help)

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Response to Kablooie (Reply #85)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 12:23 PM

87. It's very important not to over-generalize such things.

When people do that in negative ways, it destroys the message they're trying to convey. Qualifying words, like "some" modify the statement and remove that problem.

Saying "Some Christians do terrible things" is a far better way to say it.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:32 AM

8. Yes - that's a bigoted view

You're brushing all Christians with the negative behavior of a few.

Many decent people - including liberal Democrats - are Christians. I am one of them.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:37 AM

10. I am a Christian. You can trust me.

Having said that, I totally see where you are coming from. Please don't use such broad brush strokes. Jesus was put to death and betrayed by His own people because He taught love and forgiveness. A careful study of the New Testament, the one that applies to Christians, will find that we who believe in Jesus have one commandment: Love your neighbor as yourself. That starts with other Christians but it is expanded to all people. We are to be at peace with all as much as it depends on us. We are even to be willing to love and care for those who are trying to be our enemies.

Jesus said that this Way is difficult and that there are FEW who find it. I believe that still holds true. The tares are vocal. The wheat pretty much keeps on keeping on being misunderstood by both sides but trying to show love and good works as a result of faith. Pretty harmless, I'd say. When done right. Our message is the "Good News". Not bad news. There is no eternal torment only total destruction. The criteria is, seemingly, how we treat our fellow humans. There is room for hope to those who do not believe in Jesus. There is not much hope for those who do not treat others with love.

All will never accept these things. We don't expect them to do so. It IS complicated. Don't judge all of us by the vocal hateful bunch, please.

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Response to theophilus (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 10:47 AM

33. Yes, but we should emphasize that the ROMANS crucified Jesus.

The eleventh chapter of the Gospel of John explicitly states that the Jewish authorities arrested Jesus because they were afraid that the Roman Army would unleash yet ANOTHER massacre of the Jewish population. "What else can we do?" they say. "If we let him go on like this, gathering large crowds, the Romans will come in and destroy our nation." Trying to run a country that had been CRUSHED by the thuggish Roman occupying army left these poor men few choices. Those who say that Jesus posed no threat to the Romans should consider what bloodthirsty barbarians the Romans really were. The other groups they had massacred, in Israel as well as in other places, also posed no REAL threat to the Romans. The overblown, swollen ego of the Roman Empire demanded total submission by their victims of conquest. Pilate's little show of asking the population what he should do with Jesus looks very different when one considers the very real TERROR that population must surely have felt, surrounded by Roman soldiers who had recently shown how merciless they could be if Pilate issued one short order to kill.

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Response to raging moderate (Reply #33)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 12:08 PM

80. True. As you point out, though, the Jewish leadership basically offered Jesus as a sacrifice.

The powerful leaders had much to lose if the Romans cracked down. That was in their minds. I believe they did not care for the common folks. Those are the ones who had flocked to Jesus looking to Him for healing and, possibly salvation from the Romans as the Messiah. He does offer salvation and a chance for eternal life. He never promised that this life would be great from a worldly standpoint.

Anyway, the Jews offered him up and the Romans drove the nails. Jew and Gentile participated in the sacrifice and both can benefit if they choose to do so. If the Jewish Nation had chosen the teachings of Jesus they would have avoided much in the way of Roman violence. Of course the Romans did destroy the Jewish people and Temple in 70 A.D. after a rebellion and other issues. Romans and Jews both come off looking bad....they represent everyone everywhere. Mostly we come off looking bad unless we are governed by love. Then, to many, we just look weak and foolish. So be it.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:38 AM

11. ....."ignore lies, pollution, bigotry, racism, etc.,"

You can basically pencil in the fanatical adherents of almost any religion and/or ideology at the beginning of that statement and it will be true.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:39 AM

12. All belief systems have assholes

Even atheists.

It’s my hope that moderates from all can continue to live and let live through mutual progress.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:45 AM

13. You can't blame the belief

for the people that believe in it.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:54 AM

16. Religious opinion, like political opinion, is learned behaviour...

nobody is born Christian, or Muslim, or Jewish.

They may be born into a faith, but their belief is learned belief. One could make the argument that children are held captive and are brainwashed into a belief system that's not of their choosing.

I have no issue criticizing, mocking, deriding, ridiculing or not trusting any learned belief. We regularly do that to who have learned to be Republicans. Religious beliefs should be no less scrutinized.

Religions get an unearned level of respect and protection from criticism that they don't deserve.

Sid

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:56 AM

17. Hello there Goodheart. I'm a lapsed Catholic...

now best described an apophatic. Organized religion seems to be something originated by mystics, written about and "justified" by
theologians and practiced largely by laypeople who practice a muddled and watered down version of
the original. This is the case with American Christianity, more specifically the case with Protestantism and more particularly what is
termed "salvation theology" of the kind practiced by Southern Baptists, Pentecostals... etc. It's called "free grace" when
actually, it's an obviation of any obligation (esp. ethical obligations) except to "believe." Even some evangelicals have a problem with free grace - see the so-called "lordship controversy."

You are painting Christianity with a broad brush. There are a lot of liberally minded Christians who don't hold with
the practices of southern evangelicals or conservative Catholics.

You're correct that (some) Christians are dangerous for the body politic because their faith is fear driven and
they reject reason. Same can be said for many groups -some of whom are non-religious.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 09:57 AM

18. I think the problem is that those identifying as Christian are anything but

I think it was Ghandi who said something like; "I like this Jesus Christ very much, but I've never met any of his followers that are like him"

A lot of the Christians I know, and I too claim to be one, can be described as "Old Testament Christians".

Old Testament Christians as folks that call themselves Christian, but haven't made it past the Book of Leviticus in Bible Study yet.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 10:11 AM

20. I had a woman clarify the differences

between evangelicals and christians. Evangelicals are the ones who are laundering Russian money, because who would ask where that money came from in the collection plate, especially when you don't have to file taxes on it.

Christians are trying to help save the world and all the beings on it. They're the quiet ones.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 10:15 AM

21. Some of the people I trust most in my life are Christians.

 

Wonderful people.

Some of the people I trust least in my life are Christians.

Not such good people.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 10:17 AM

22. It's true that the majority of Christian voters cast their ballots for Trump.

It's also true that today, most of his remaining ardent supporters are Christian. However, it's impossible to honestly combine Christians into one group and say anything about them. Christianity isn't a single religion. There are more than 1000 denominations of Christianity, plus who knows how many "nondenominational" and "independent" churches, and countless individual practitioners. All of them have their own unique interpretation and practices, and each one is convinced that they are right and that everyone else is doing it wrong. A person can believe or disbelieve just about anything and still be considered one flavor of Christian or another. You should consider them as individuals, because the word "Christian" really is meaningless by itself.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 10:35 AM

26. Would you find it acceptable

For someone to say “I don’t trust Muslims” or to broad brush Muslims like you did with Christians?

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Response to Jake Stern (Reply #26)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 10:51 AM

36. No, but I would find it acceptable to say "I don't trust police."

See my comment at 34.

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Response to Jake Stern (Reply #26)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 12:13 PM

82. God is a make believe friend for grownups. No proof at all. Nt

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 10:36 AM

27. Their invisible friend forgives them for everything they do wrong

 

The primary points tend to be a complete lack of guilt for whatever they've done, and an infinite free pass to do more of whatever it is.

There is a word for that in psychology.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 10:37 AM

28. If Christianity were just a "club"

 

It would have been disbanded and prohibited with all the suffering it's caused.
Especially the child molestation and rape.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 10:43 AM

31. I don't trust Christian politicians...

Leave your Bibles at home, or your Koran for that matter, or whatever religious book you want to promote.

Don't enact laws based on religious faith.

Just don't.

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #31)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:57 AM

72. "I don't trust Christian politicians..." Kind of a broad brush there...

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #72)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 12:40 PM

92. Barack Obama was a politician who happened to be a Christian...

He didn't force his "Christian" doctrine on anybody through legislation.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 10:44 AM

32. I have many of the same issues with members of both sides of my family.

They seem to have a "holier than thou" attitude that is repulsive. They choose to live in their isolated world with little or no regard for anyone that is not a member of their cult. Don't believe in global warming or just plain do care, love to talk down most, if not all minorities. I never bring up politics when around them but their world view, in my opinion, is insane. I don't really understand it. I was raised in the same environment but I guess the indoctrination didn't take. For years I went along with accepting religion as a choice but these days it seems that it is simply a ignorant and dangerous path for our world. I consider myself open-minded but it is very hard for me to hid my feelings these days - although I still do in the company of others.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 10:49 AM

34. It shouldn't be our job as atheists or non-believers to tell them apart, it's their job

to call out those who identify as Christian and are acting as hypocrites. The Christian community must cleanse itself of those who use the name but elect not to follow the teachings of Christ. *

I feel the same way with police. Victims of police violence aren't responsible for acknowledging the fact that there are good police. "Good" police must use their voice to get rid of the bad apples. The organization is corrupt if it fails to hold all its members to the highest standard.

So, Christians CAN'T be trusted when they fail to speak out against their own.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 10:52 AM

37. You can be a serial killer who tortured people and get into heaven,

but not if you don’t accept Jesus as your savior. You have to stroke God’s ego, or its off to hell with you.

How very human that is.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 10:54 AM

38. Who was the last Dem presidential candidate that was not a Christian? Nt

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #38)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:00 AM

42. Candidate or nominee?

Joe Lieberman was a candidate in the primaries and was actually a nominee in the VP slot.

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Response to Shrek (Reply #42)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:11 AM

45. I meant candidate for president not for the nomination.

Sanders ran for the nomination in 2016 and he’s Jewish as well.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 10:55 AM

39. Gee thanks, I'm a Christian

 

So was Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., so is US Rep John Lewis who was beaten and jailed for you.

And many thousands if not millions of other democrats that demand social justice.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 10:59 AM

41. If you replaced the word "Christian" with "Muslim"

This whole thread would be on fire right now. Let's just not do this type of thing here. What you just said is nothing short of bigotry, and I say this as an Agnostic.

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Response to vdogg (Reply #41)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:46 AM

61. For me the term "bigotry" is only meaningful when discussing characteristics of person(s)

that are not by choice.

Religion is a choice. Religious notions are as much intellectual as are political ones.

Am I bigoted against Christianity? Sure, OK, I admit it... in the same way I'm bigoted against Republicanism.


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Response to Goodheart (Reply #61)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:53 AM

69. Yup...



Sid

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #44)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 01:01 PM

97. Gotta agree.

Double standards and hypocrisy alive and well here on DU.
This is the DU member formerly known as cwydro.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:22 AM

46. Yes, it is a bigoted view

But one that will be tolerated and supported

I wonder how many folks who mock and ridicule Christian's for their belief in invisible beings and the writings in old books would include Barak Obama who became religious as an adult and described himself as a devout Christian.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:28 AM

48. I trust Christians.

 

Christians give to charity; money, time, clothing. They visit people in prison. They feed the hungry. They give shelter to the homeless. They take care of the sick. That is a Christian. I am Jewish, but I do try to follow Matthew 25: 35-40

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Response to Cold War Spook (Reply #48)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:36 AM

50. As do we all.

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Response to Cold War Spook (Reply #48)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:44 AM

57. Those must be the ones who aren't trying to take a away a woman's right to choose

 

Or promoting trump in their tax-exempt churches.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:38 AM

51. Recovering Evangelical Here I agree

about 1000 percent. I assume there are still some good ones in some denominations. Evangelicals no none exist. I have been amazed that the "good" one haven't tried to reclaim their brand. As Reagan said verify.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:42 AM

52. You can almost tell what kind of Christian someone is by the political party they identify with. -nt

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:42 AM

53. Please do not lump all Christians into one block. That is bigotry.

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Response to northoftheborder (Reply #53)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:46 AM

60. Please put a leash on your brothers and sisters in christ.

 

You know, the ones who want to fast track the end times.

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Response to Mr. Quackers (Reply #60)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 12:01 PM

74. Right after Muslims put a leash on ISIS and Al Qaeda

You know the ones that want to murder artists who draw caricatures of Mohammad or who feel the best way to deal with gays is to toss them to their deaths from tall buildings.

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Response to Jake Stern (Reply #74)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 12:10 PM

81. muslims didn't elect trump

 

and I've never seen a muslim protesting abortion providers.

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Response to Mr. Quackers (Reply #81)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 12:36 PM

91. Just following your lead in making irrational demands

Of all adherents of a particular religion.

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Response to northoftheborder (Reply #53)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:50 AM

64. I lump all Republicans into one block.

Are there anti-Republican bigots here?

As I said in another post.... religious views, political views... these are intellectual notions.

To call me a "bigot" against Christianity but excuse my intolerance of Republicanism without applying that label makes no sense to me.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:42 AM

54. Meh. That's not the fault of Christianity.

Every single person has its own beliefs. Whatever the holy book says, in the end we cherrypick what we believe.

Religion does not lead to immoral behavior. It catalyzes already existing immoral tendencies by providing excuses.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:43 AM

56. Lol so why isn't this thread locked?

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:48 AM

62. Yes, it's bigoted and breaks GD forum rules...

No religion in general discussion

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Response to backtoblue (Reply #62)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:51 AM

65. So, have it deleted. I wasn't aware of the rule. I don't mind.

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #65)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:53 AM

70. Not up to me to delete it FYI...

You choose to follow the rules or not.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:49 AM

63. Christians are fine. It's usually just the church wherein the problem lies.

 

Stay away from churches and you'll be OK...

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:52 AM

66. I feel the same way about humans in general.

Though I do realize the convenience of limiting that mistrust only to a particular religion, or a specific political party, or someone who digs the Bare Naked Ladies. Without that opportune, arbitrary and imaginary distinction, we're often forced to take people as individuals-- which has its own host of problems.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:52 AM

67. Mafia figures give money to the Church

They think that this buys them redemption--both with "God" and with the communities the churches "serve."

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:56 AM

71. I think anyone who puts the reflection of self in a mirror labeled "god" can't be trusted. n/t

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 11:59 AM

73. I find all religions strange, often bigoted and persecutory, and quite often with closed minds if

not one of the club. I am not saying all are like that, but I've encountered enough. I find it difficult for me to be blindly fed beliefs. I went through that as a kid until I woke up one day and realized much of it was bull shit.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 12:03 PM

75. I think it is mostly republican Evangelical Christians who can't be trusted.

Let's not alienate the entire religion. We might need some of them later. They are a sizable group of people and it would be unfair to prejudge them all.

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Response to KansasKali (Reply #75)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 12:14 PM

84. Bingo.

As with any religion, there are all kinds.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 12:07 PM

77. If you were only referring to businesses, I would tend to agree with you.

I avoid any business that includes a "Jesus fish" in their ads. We have quite a few of those in my town. In my experience, the operators of those businesses turn out to be the biggest crooks. That fish doesn't tell me that you are honest and will do a good job at whatever you are advertising you do. It just says "We're part of the club, and we'll still rip you off, even if you are, too."

As for having that attitude about people in general, yeah it's bigoted.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 12:07 PM

78. They don't care about the environment because...

to believe that the human race can end themselves plays hell with their eternal life.

The flip side of this is of course that our destruction of the Earth is part of the path to the Rapture and we can't have that being interfered with either.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 12:08 PM

79. The way I see it...

anyone publicly identifying themselves as Christian are doing so to provide "evidence" they are good people. Especially political candidates. The question should be why does someone feel the need to announce they are Christian?

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 12:24 PM

88. To me it's kind of like the abortion issue. DEMS (myself) believe freedom of CHOICE!!

Each and every one of us are free to make OUR OWN decisions on religious freedom. NOW i feel the RUMPS and PUTINS (FALSE PROPHETS) have chosen THIS as a way to divide and conquer! If you are NOT a Christian makes NO difference to me. YOU CHOOSE! BUT we CANNOT let these people divide us!

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 12:27 PM

89. At the risk of offending,I don't think shit stirrers can be trust

But that's probably just me.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 12:34 PM

90. Generalizations can be a problem.

If you have strong negative reactions to any and all Christians and believe that all fit the stereotype that members of your family have displayed to you, then there may be bigotry at work.

It can be very frustrating to see people who claim to belong to a group with a set of beliefs and principles and not acting according to those values. I have certainly been there.

A major problem with Christianity is that there are so many interpretations and people act upon their personal interpretations of other groups or people's interpretations and all claim to be able to justify all actions based on those interpretations and interpretations of interpretations. People say, "they aren't Christian" but it is difficult to prove that, they may truly believe they are acting according to some value of Christianity even though they may be wrong.

Another problem with Christianity is that it has been used, as have other religions, by people who want to motivate people to act in certain ways. Leaders with bad intentions are more likely to use religion to carry out their own agenda because they find that people who are very religious are easy to manipulate.

I think a lot of people use religion to try to make sense out of the world and in doing so, they can be vulnerable to exploitation and manipulation into doing some really bad things.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 12:45 PM

94. Here are some thoughts to consider...

1) How can the Christian religion be the Christian religion when Jesus was not a Christian?

2) Why are there so my books in the NT written by Paul who never met Jesus. And it is Paul writing that he saw Jesus in a vision. No witnesses. How convenient.

3) If the Christian religion is such a great religion then why was it necessary to co-opt the Hebrew Bible as their Old Testament?

4) Why are interpretations of the Old Testament by Christians given preference over the interpretations of Rabbis that lived during the period. Again, the Old Testament is the Hebrew Bible. It is just formatted differently.

5) The genealogy of Jesus is meaningless if Mary was a virgin and Joseph had nothing to do with impregnating Mary.

6) Mark, John, and Paul mention nothing of Mary being a virgin.

7) The thirty pieces of silver -- Silver as currency was no longer in existence. It was eliminated 300 years prior.

8) Why are the majority of books in the NT written by Paul?

9) Why did Paul preached it was his gospel and not the gospel of Jesus?

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 12:53 PM

95. Yes, this is bigotry

There are 2.2 billion Christians in the world, nearly a third of the world's population. Do you distrust them all? Your statement is as meaningless as if you had said that you don't trust humans since humans have done bad things.

And if you don't understand the difference between, for example, right-wing evangelicals, which is only one subset of Christianity (although one with an unfortunate stranglehold on the GOP) and other groups of Christians (many of whom also have serious problems, as all human institutions tend to do, but not necessarily the same political ones you mention), then perhaps your opinion is based simply on stereotypes based on limited exposure.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 12:58 PM

96. There are many Christians who are very good people.

My family is heavily Christian, I am not. My family members are compassionate people that don't hesitate to help someone that is in need. They don't hate LGBTQ people, in fact one of my Christian nieces employs an LGBTQ person as her most valued employee.

So, I all depends upon where your vantage point is.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 01:04 PM

98. There's a sucker born again every minute!

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 01:07 PM

101. Bigotry, prejudice, misogyny and hate are fundamental to Christian beliefs.

And it’s all based on make believe.
This is the DU member formerly known as stopbush.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 01:12 PM

102. FWIW, you're the only one that can delete a thread you post...

... unless you're asking for The Powers That Be to delete/lock.

But also FWIW... DU has many people who are Christian. Not all Christians ignore bigotry and racism -- see, for example, the Quakers, but also progressive congregations in many other denominations exist.

I've had issues with some people who, IMHO, lose sight of the "loving each other as themselves" part of Jesus's two commandments, and feel that they can't love God without judging other humans.

But that is not all of Christianity.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 01:16 PM

103. What if someone posted, "I don't think Muslims can be trusted" on this board

Or, "I don't think Jews can be trusted." Or Hindus, etc.

I believe the response would be quite different.

Bigotry is bigotry. Your statement is bigoted.

Signed,
A lapsed Catholic

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 01:17 PM

104. Please don't lump all christians together

Thete are many fine ones who walk the walk, and are very trustworthy.
This is the DU member formerly known as Soxfan58.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Mon Feb 11, 2019, 01:28 PM

106. Locking...

Forum Hosts have written to you advising you of the SOP restrictions in the General Discussions Forum, you've not responded.

From the SOP of the General Discussions Forum

Discuss politics, issues, and current events. Posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports are restricted in this forum.

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