General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDontBooVote
(901 posts)qazplm135
(7,447 posts)but she's basically saying the stories are true.
DontBooVote
(901 posts)went crying to Huffpost about it because she took their binkie after failing to meet certain expectations.
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)I'm pretty sure it's not whiny to complain about it. That's toxic leadership, and even the Army doesn't tolerate it. I know, I've seen plenty of leaders go down for it.
Mr. Quackers
(443 posts)get the fuck out of the way.
Politics is a tough business.
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)if this were a conservative Senator, folks would be tripping over themselves to talk about how bad they were, but we like her politics so now we are all internet toughies.
Mr. Quackers
(443 posts)/sarcasm
oh, and false equivalency. Nice try, but you're doing it wrong.
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)same thing that's happening with blackface and sex assault.
whathehell
(29,065 posts)bias.
We can't be hypocrites. Criticizing abusive behavior is always right, regardless of party.
UpInArms
(51,280 posts)Fails to recognize that good people are not perfect ...
Theres a difference in the .... fill in the blank ....
Purists believe that any failing is a death sentence...
Everyone responds to pressure differently... and, I like to think that it is possible for all things to be a learning experience...
Let us not throw the baby out with the bath water.
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)there are plenty of other women and progressives to vote for.
UpInArms
(51,280 posts)That is how I enter the voting booth ... every time
Peace
whathehell
(29,065 posts)The "double standard" can get very obvious at times.
We don't know all the details of this situation. Just because "politics are tough", doesn't give someone the excuse to mistreat their employees.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)except in self-defense, is never justified. Especially in an employer-employee situation.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Better yet, quit. There are hundreds of people who would be happy to have the job.
whathehell
(29,065 posts)I don't know 'hundreds' of people who would "love" having an abusive asshole as a boss, but, whatever.
Catch2.2
(629 posts)A lot of people can't just quit their job. They have bills to pay, families to feed. Not to mention having to explain quitting from a previous employer. Some jobs/careers have extensive interview/background processes. Trying to explain that you quit because your boss was mean, doesn't always go over well. A lot of times it's a red flag.
whathehell
(29,065 posts)I don't like toxic bosses, myself.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I don't think abusiveness is the kind of trait that I want in a leader. Even if they are a solid Democrat.
Ms. Toad
(34,060 posts)"Hey - making your coffee is not in my job description"?
DontBooVote
(901 posts)Last edited Sun Feb 10, 2019, 06:18 PM - Edit history (1)
saying such a ridiculous thing.
Kingofalldems
(38,444 posts)elias7
(3,997 posts)DontBooVote
(901 posts)not by inferring things about you, even trying to make you look as if you believe the diametric opposite of how you really think and how you've lived your life.
Not even a good try at it, either. SMH.
elias7
(3,997 posts)lunatica
(53,410 posts)I was recently accused by same of something just as ridiculous. I responded too, though it obviously didnt do much good.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)My son spent several months as the driver for a US Senator. Hes got a degree in public policy, and his job was to transport this Senator to a dizzying array of engagements and make sure he got there fed, rested, and ready to do whatever the occasion demanded.
If a US Senator wants his coffee and snacks just so, then you make fucking sure his coffee and snacks are just so. This is one of the couple of dozen most powerful people on the planet, and if they need a shirt picked up from the cleaners, then you are going to the cleaners to get that shirt or you can forget about the PRIVILEGE it is to be able to put US Senate Staffer on your resume.
DontBooVote
(901 posts)which you have applied, and accepted.
I'm in that job, I'm giving that senator a foot massage with my own hands, if that's what he or she wants.
We all know how short time is, especially when you are a leader.
And the gullibility of some people, right there on the eve of her announcement for president, from "anonymous sources". Until someone, with an actual name, goes on record to state for the record that Sen. Klobachar has thrown shit at them, this is nothing but russian-level manipulation and anyone who falls for it should take a few hours to look into the mirror ask themselves if they are really going to allow themselves to be manipulated in such a way.
pazzyanne
(6,547 posts)2naSalit
(86,524 posts)yet few recognize it or understand why it matters.
Ms. Toad
(34,060 posts)to be babysitters, drivers, turn-a-blind-eye to the state appellate/supreme court justice undressing in the back seat. (All attorneys, all female. None of the clerks I know who worked for male judges were subjected to such job demands - and none (working for either gender) believed such tasks were in appropriately part of their job descriptions.
whathehell
(29,065 posts)dflprincess
(28,075 posts)Hennepin County Attorney. There were more than a few, mostly women who, apparently, we are suppose to write off as "whiny-assed" rather than ask if their complaints were/are legitimate.
I don't recall anyone here objecting to McCain's temperament being questioned when he ran in 2008
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Some people dont handle pressure well, other people thrive in it. Who cares if shes a difficult boss?
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)to not be assholes personally. If the accusations are true, then she will struggle to break that barrier for me.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)You can't sell "Minnesota Nice" while being a jerk in private. We have plenty of candidates who have been both firm and fair in their dealings with the people who work for them.
kevink077
(365 posts)I have worked for nightmare bosses like this. No sale sorry to say. These issues seem to go back a very long time. She cannot manage a staff and has an anger management problem.
whathehell
(29,065 posts)Some of us care about it.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)I'm certain you will find disgruntled persons who got their buns chapped by working just about anywhere.
whathehell
(29,065 posts)a "demanding" job, but employers can and do get sued for this kind of behavior. Workplace bullying and harassment doesn't have to be about sex.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I think the inability to manage one's temper is a sign of weakness. And being abusive toward subordinates tells me that this person does not embrace the qualities I would look for in a leader. Everyone has a bad day, but this seems to be the way she rolls most of the time. I'm not impressed.
whathehell
(29,065 posts)Former Senate Leader Harry Reid reprimanded her for her behavior.
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5c5db1ece4b03afe8d674530
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I think shes saying fuck this shit, that shes not going to get in the mud with this nonsense.
Good answer on her part.
calimary
(81,199 posts)Double standard much?
Sheesh - when Barbra Streisand directed her first film (Yentl, in 1983, in which she also starred) she got shit for this, too. I remember her being lambasted as a bitch because she was forceful and meticulous - holding herself and everybody else to a high standard, because it WAS, after all, HER movie.
It was also pointed out how sexist this criticism was. The first female studio chiefs Dawn Steele and Sherry Lansing found the same thing. When they were strong executives they too were lambasted as bitches and ball-busters - AND WORSE (man-haters and even lesbians for examples - insulting entire groups of women and artificially laying on negativity, in the process!). But a man doing the same things, with the same leadership style? HE would be PRAISED as strong, gutsy, bold, and other positive descriptions.
It was unfair, unjust, undeserved, and sexist then and its still that way now.
The climb for women has been slow and hard. We ARE held to a different standard, one thats artificially imposed on us by others based on THEIR OWN cockeyed and wrong-headed thinking. That old bullshit has been awfully hard to fight through!
Demit
(11,238 posts)They have decided. When men take charge it's good, whatever their management style is. When women take charge their management style is supposed to be "nice.". Women don't dare manage in the way that men do! That makes them wrong, that makes them bullies. Women are expected to be nurturing, as if their staff are a bunch of nestlings that need to be fed.
pnwmom
(108,973 posts)which is a sign of how good they were. When you are a good boss, you applaud your former employees for being able to move up, even if that means leaving you.
ooky
(8,922 posts)Especially after the wimp we have now.
Good response.
GWC58
(2,678 posts)to the Putins & Uns of the world. God knows this one wont or, worse, cant!
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)occupying the White House.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)Trump being an asshole justifies whatever comes next?
Maybe if Klobuchar is our only choice other than Trump, but we still have a lot of choices at this point in time.
ooky
(8,922 posts)read into things that aren't there. Nobody said she was our only choice. Not even implied.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)she might be, and I have to admit, that no matter what comes out of her staff, past and present, is something I will have to choose to ignore if negative, when it comes to a choice between her and the orange anus.
I will wait to see what the news media and the oppo research people for the other campaigns can unearth, if there is anything.
whathehell
(29,065 posts)That sounds more like bullying.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)whathehell
(29,065 posts)Back at ya.
ooky
(8,922 posts)So is bullying. I don't support either, but I haven't seen any evidence of either presented in this case. From what I've heard so far I would summize that she has high expectations of the people that work for her, and pushes them. I'm not going to fault her for that.
I was once on the staff of a VP who had very high expectations of his directors and department managers. We had turnover too. But he had a job to do that he counted on us to do our jobs with the expected commitment so he would meet his deliverables to our CEO and our shareholders. He was tough, but he didn't abuse and he didn't bully. Maybe Amy didn't either. Abuse is not synonomous to being strong or demanding.
She's going to be on Rachel tonight. I expect it will come up and it will be interesting to see what kind of questions Rachel asks her about it.
whathehell
(29,065 posts)Even Harry Reid criticized her for mistreating her staff.
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5c5db1ece4b03afe8d674530
ooky
(8,922 posts)whathehell
(29,065 posts)She wlso expects her staff to do some of her housework, like washing dishes, straightening her closet and picking her dclothes off the floor... Seriously.
Here's a link to the Huffpost article.
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5c5db1ece4b03afe8d674530
ooky
(8,922 posts)one of my adult children has type 1 diabetes, so the health care crisis is a real threat to us, to his livlihood, to his family's livlihood, including my grandchildren, and possibly a threat to his life, if health care doesn't soon get fixed. So if I thought she had the right policy positions and abilities to deliver affordable health care to all, none of the things that have been said or "alleged" about her in the Huffington Post would be enough for me not to vote for her. And I would not care who she "offends" to get it done. I need results, and soon. I'm not going to assume "abuse", I don't know what her staff's job descriptions are, and in short there isn't enough here for me to say she is unfit. I can see she has made some enemies along the way though, and I would agree she has probably pushed it. She's not perfect, but she might be effective.
That said, if its enough for you, I can respect that. I can agree to disagree. Incidentally, she isn't my first choice, for now, Brown is, if he runs, and I like some other candidates as well. I'm not locked in yet. But I'm going to be listening closely to health care proposals, and judge their feasibility of ever becoming reality; also, taxation. I want the tax scam repealed. Those are my swing issues for the primaries, along with electability.
whathehell
(29,065 posts)but I do think you'd get healthcare relief from any Democratic candidate. I like Brown too, though my first choice is Elizabeth Warren.
As to Klobuchar, I rather liked her too before I got wind of her documented 10 year history of employee abuse.
That said, I'll have to vote for whoever's nominated, even if I'm holding my nose doing it..
bdamomma
(63,836 posts)I can hear her say. Very determined with her comment too.
Siwsan
(26,259 posts)You can have high expectations of yourself and everyone else, without being abusive. Those are the claims, if true, that I find disturbing.
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)the other longtime staff/employees is that "disturbing"?
I was a business owner and I am a female. Divisive people are poison. The sooner you remove them the better.
If you don't let them go the loyal hardworking staff will start to resent the boss. I learned this early on.
Siwsan
(26,259 posts)I've worked for some really tough bosses, both in the Navy and as a civilian, who were still respectful of their subordinates. If a boss has to yell or throw things, the problem might be with them, rather than entirely with their employees.
But I ABSOLUTELY agree about the divisive people scenario. I retired a good 3 years early because the company I worked for didn't remove a VERY divisive and hostile employee.
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)Siwsan
(26,259 posts)To be honest, she's not at the top of my 'wish' list, but it's VERY early days. I'll do some reading up, on her.
Volaris
(10,269 posts)I've pissed my boss off on more than one occasion, and haven't been fired yet. I've also never had her throw things at me sooo...
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)Where did you read this?
I am seeing comments around the internuts that this narrative is being pushed by some party insiders that are waiting for Joe Biden.
whathehell
(29,065 posts)qualify as assault.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Demit
(11,238 posts)call me when there's video of this abuse so I can see for myself how "disturbing" it actually is.
Siwsan
(26,259 posts)But her high turn over rate speaks, to me, of a problem.
Demit
(11,238 posts)It's true in big-law law firms, it's true in politics. Things move fast, things are always needed yesterday, it's high stakes stuff and you have to be devoted to it. "If you don't come in on Saturday, don't bother coming in on Sunday" is an old joke but it's true. Or, as a president once said, "If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen." So some people do.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)she has chosen staffers that are less emotionally equipped to deal with the stresses of working on staff for a Senator than most other Senators? What does that say about her ability to choose suitable people to work with her?
Nice way to play "blame the victim", by the way. I'm still waiting for the answers to some tough questions on this issue.
Demit
(11,238 posts)I hope you get all your tough questions answered. Something tells me, though, you've already decided in your own mind what the answers are, and any other possibilities won't satisfy you.
whathehell
(29,065 posts)an abusive one.
whathehell
(29,065 posts)She has the highest staff turnover in the entire Senate.
Demit
(11,238 posts)In any system of comparison, there's always going to be a highest/lowest or most/least. Even when the difference is slight. Even when there are all different contributing factors. You're letting one article guide your judgment about it.
I have a question for you: How, practically speaking, would how she deals with her staff affect how she would be as president? If you think that it would negatively impact her policies, or how she interacts with foreign leaders, or how she approaches global problems, then you have your reason for why you can't in good conscience vote for her.
Me, I think that article is making a mountain out of a molehill. Maybe you should ask why THAT is.
whathehell
(29,065 posts)After that, you should realize that this isn't a matter of letting "one article" affect my judgement -- There have been several reports of her bad behavior -- Even former Senate Leader Harry Reid chided her for mistreating subordinates.
However people in power treat "global leaders", their treatment of subordinates, speaks volumes about their character. We already have one bully in the Whitehouse, I don't want another
Demit
(11,238 posts)Anyway, if you think how a senator deals with her staff (based on the several reports you've heard!) will affect her abilities as president, or that these several reports you've heard mean that she is just like Trump, well, don't vote for her. I think it's a stupid basis for judging a candidate's qualifications, myself. She's not running for den mother. Beyond that, I don't have anything else to offer you. You've made up your mind.
whathehell
(29,065 posts)Democrats generally understand that.
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5c5db1ece4b03afe8d674530
Fla Dem
(23,645 posts)In 2000, every Representative hired 14 staff members, while the average Senator hired 34. In 2000, Representatives had a limit of 18 full-time and four part-time staffers; Senators had no limit on staff.[5] Budgets for staff were determined by the population of the state; Senators from California, the most populous state, get more money for staff than Senators from Wyoming, the least populous state. Members can choose how to distribute staff between their Washington office and their United States congressional district home office or offices.[5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_staff
According to the above, on average, a Senator has about 34 staff. Some in DC others in their home state headquarters. The article cited 4 former staffer and emails. Former staff were not identified and emails were not published. Not saying they don't exist, but hard to rely on anything without some documented proof.
Also claim was made that Sen Klobuchar had the highest staff turnover.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/21/worst-bosses-congress-476729
Maybe because she does have high performance standard she produces more excellent candidates to fill high ranking positions in other government positions.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/amy-klobuchar-abuse-staff-2020_us_5c5a1cb1e4b0871047588649
I haven't decided yet which candidate I'm hitching my wagon to for 2020, but I do like Sen Klobuchar and what she has done. I would be disappointed if these complaints have more substance than just the regular complaining of any disgruntled employee.
whathehell
(29,065 posts)pnwmom
(108,973 posts)as not-nice when they are assertive or demanding.
Boomer
(4,168 posts)Data gathered from the Senate shows she had the highest office staff turnover for five years running. That's concerning because I don't want yet another POTUS with a revolving door of key White House staff.
She needs some anger management counseling.
Caliman73
(11,729 posts)Could it be a combination of some people leaving because of the demands and some people moving to to other things like running for office, promotions, etc..?
I am not disputing that she may not treat her staff all that well, but it appears that people are very quick to disqualify Klobuchar without a larger context, especially when such behavior would likely be overlooked or even praised in a male counterpart.
Boomer
(4,168 posts)If Klobuchar has "high staff turnover" I wouldn't think twice about it, except as the usual sexist standards applied to women who are supposed to be nice.
But "five years of the highest staff turnover in the Senate" kicks that up a notch. This goes beyond being a boss with high standards and into the realm of dysfunctional management.
pnwmom
(108,973 posts)Her attrition rate was 36% over 6 years, as compared to Barbara Jackson Lee's at 62%.
And even BJL's rate is not particularly high on an annual basis -- just over 10% a year.
And Legistorm, the outfit that collected the data, made the point (overlooked in most of the TV reports) that there are lots of reasons for attrition, including the fact that many staffers are interns and others who are moving on to better or more challenging positions.
Siwsan
(26,259 posts)pnwmom
(108,973 posts)a claim made based on attrition rates. But the article itself contains a disclaimer that attrition might have little to do with a "toxic environment."
So the fact that this is coming out now makes me think someone is trying to kneecap AK, by going after her for something that is supposed to be her strength -- her likability in Minnesota and the midwest.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/21/worst-bosses-congress-476729
Its much more important, for example, if a chief of staff turns over than if a lowly staff assistant turns over, said Jock Friedly, LegiStorms CEO and founder. Its perfectly normal for a staff assistant to turn over. And obviously its particularly usual for paid interns to turn over so that obviously has little impact on an office.
The office of Texas Democratic Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee topped the list in the House, with an annual turnover rate of 62 percent, according to LegiStorm. Rep. Raul Ruiz (D-Calif.) came in behind her with 60 percent annual turnover, followed by Rep. Mark Sanford (R-S.C.) with 54 percent.
In the Senate, Minnesota Democrat Amy Klobuchar led the pack with an annual turnover rate of 36 percent, followed by Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-Wash.) with 30 percent and Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) with 28 percent.
LegiStorm declines to guess whether the high turnover stems from a toxic work environment or employees simply advancing in their careers.
SNIP
The office of Texas GOP Rep. Kay Granger, which had the seventh-highest annual turnover rate in the House from 2001 to 2016, said her office has been a launching pad for staffers, who have gone on to serve in the Bush administration and congressional leadership. Barrett Karr, Grangers former chief of staff, for example, is House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthys chief of staff.
Congresswoman Granger hires the best, and when staff does decide to leave, they go to work for influential people or businesses, said Kevin Boland, Grangers communications director. She appreciates the dedication and hard work of her current and former staff members.
Siwsan
(26,259 posts)I think the 'kneecapping' is going to be something affecting a lot of our candidates. And, it's very unfortunate. Especially considering the hot moral, ethical and legal mess the GOP has on their plate.
Ms. Toad
(34,060 posts)were given copies of emails from Klobuchar. Hardly anonymous griping when those doing the reporting were doing so based on emails Klobuchar actually wrote.
pnwmom
(108,973 posts)Kingofalldems
(38,444 posts)pazzyanne
(6,547 posts)mcar
(42,300 posts)in which to live on a govt salary.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)We have not only the attrition rate, especially odd considering "Minnesota Nice", but we have the union letter from before her assuming the office of Senator, and the fact that Harry Reid needed to step in.
Enough evidence for a conviction? No, of course not, but enough evidence to continue being suspicious and be cognizant of what comes out next.
pnwmom
(108,973 posts)calculations, Legistorm, specifically said that no conclusions could be drawn by the number. Politico's headline writer decided to spin with the title, "worst bosses," but Legistorm said that there there are a number of factors that affect attrition, including the # of interns, people getting opportunities for better paying or more challenging jobs, etc.
But I don't hear anyone complaining about Barbara Jackson Lee's 62% rate over the same time period, or the numerous House members who had higher attrition than Klobuchar.
The local union had heard a couple complaints from her staffers, and they seemed to be especially disgruntled that they hadn't gotten the pay raises they were hoping for. She fought for pay raises but it was beyond her control.
We don't know that Reid had to step in. His office says he doesn't remember that happening.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)you would certainly hear complaints in the media about her turnover rate.
You want the top job, expect to be scrutinized. You want to represent a district that has been gerrymandered to the point where any Democratic incumbent can repeatedly be reelected, then you will probably get a pass from the media, not wanting to waste ink.
There's more to come on this story, and I plan to pay some attention to whatever it is.
pnwmom
(108,973 posts)is tighter than in the House. Whether someone has a 3% or a 6% annual attrition rate really isn't important; both numbers are small. I once worked in an office where there was a 75% attrition over 2 years. THAT was high.
I think the "more" to this story is that, in Minnesota, Amy is personally very popular, and many thought she'd bring that same strength to other swing states. So someone is going after her now, on the same weekend that she announces, to try to knee-cap her -- to take a whack at her reputation for "likability."
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)over two years is very high, but I'm guessing that your boss only had to please his or her boss, and not too many other people. There will be more questions, and more answers, and I will be attuned to all of them.
Frankly, her biggest problem is probably name recognition. I doubt that one American in ten has ever heard of her before today. Senators Harris and Booker got most of the coverage on our side in the Kavanaugh hearings.
pnwmom
(108,973 posts)but it wasn't because she didn't have many people above her to please. They even gave her an extra staffer -- me -- to stand between her and the people she was making miserable, and I got out as soon as I could.
She was my first experience with a boss who was a narcissist, though I had had one in my personal life. I don't see evidence of that in Klobuchar.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)in a business that effectively had competitors? My last job was customer service for a utility company that had no competitors, so it was not the case that an abusive or demeaning boss would have hurt the company in market share by driving away the best people.
My lady left a place about six months ago, from a department with horrendous hours (16 hour shifts, tough when you are in your early 60's!) , just to get away from her customer service supervisor, who has turned over 75% of that department in the time that my lady has been away from it, three to four years ago. She explicitly complained in her exit interview, but some firms just don't give a rat's patoot.
It's difficult to believe this could go on in an industry where you have competition that would attract the best people and motivate them properly, with incentives and decency rather than threats and intimidation. However, there are only two Senators from each state, and only one hundred overall that you could work for if you wanted to be a Senate staffer, which is pretty close to a monopolistic entity.
pnwmom
(108,973 posts)so I guess it had competitors. But, no, I wasn't working in a field like sales, where they'd really want to keep the most profitable people. We were part of the overhead, as it were. And the number of similar jobs was limited.
a kennedy
(29,644 posts)KewlKat
(5,624 posts)liked what he heard and said send her some money.
DontBooVote
(901 posts)Way to go KewlKat's hubby!
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)I have not yet picked my candidate.
ooky
(8,922 posts)Solid speech, said a lot of the things I want to hear. I'll be paying closer attention to her now. I like her.
KewlKat
(5,624 posts)exboyfil
(17,862 posts)Moe Greene:
"I got a business to run. I gotta kick asses sometimes to make it run right. We had a little argument, Freddy and me, so I had to straighten him out."
She would benefit by having a trusted management coach on her campaign team assuming that this is really a problem.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,338 posts)Not on Baptism day.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)empedocles
(15,751 posts)knowledge and platform wise, to go after traitortrump, in the campaign.
Also, Amy seems sensible, and has a regular, special approachable appeal.
riverwalker
(8,694 posts)Getting an all caps email from your boss is not abuse. This whole thing is ridiculous.
First Speaker
(4,858 posts)...and you never heard a peep about it. Largely because he was also supportive, and fair. His people--and I knew one--would always wince when they saw he was in one of his moods...and also run thru a brick wall for him. I suspect Ms Klobuchar is similar, and I know that much of this story is imbued with sexist stereotypes...
pnwmom
(108,973 posts)But she also said he was eminently fair, and I agreed. That's why I was happy to work with him.
I agree with you, that that might be the kind of boss Amy is -- but some people don't react well to the same behavior on the part of a woman that they would accept from a man.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)not to mention LBJ.
BeyondGeography
(39,369 posts)I wont pretend to know the truth, but that answer makes the best of a not great situation. An encouraging indicator, at least on the communications front.
DesertRat
(27,995 posts)Here's how the Not Likeable bias is affecting women leaders:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/pragyaagarwaleurope/2018/10/23/not-very-likeable-here-is-how-bias-is-affecting-women-leaders/
Ferrets are Cool
(21,105 posts)TimeToGo
(1,366 posts)If he is abusive, no. Now, that's the question -- is she, or is she just strong. People are coming out of the woodwork to attack all our candidates. So, I would want to know a lot more. I would not want to support a candidate who was harsh down, and sweet out. That is a strong, telling character flaw.
But, let's rush to judgement on no one.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)It has nothing to do with her gender.
NNadir
(33,512 posts)...much about her, or for that matter, any of the other candidates, but the one thing we need in this country is a candidate who can wipe the floor with the remains of this racist, ignorant, very stupid and corrupt orange asshole in the White House.
It may be her, or one of the many other fine candidates of whom I'm learning, but I don't know.
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)Regarding the proper response, and what I expected her to say.
Not complicated at all. I would have been surprised if someone of Amy's caliber would have taken it in a different direction.
A less capable and less instinctive person would have been scrambling to have some recent or current staffer standing alongside while making awkward positive remarks.
Amy will be asked to elaborate on the talk shows in coming days. She'll handle it extraordinarily well.
jalan48
(13,856 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)I've seen both. I've experienced both. There is a difference. The former is not conducive to good business and is not about good work or team work or good results. "Demanding" is what is necessary to produce good results in a demanding field.
I have no doubt that working on Mueller's team in any capacity is very demanding. I also doubt that it's abusive. Because that wouldn't be constructive.
Abuse is not about a good work ethic or demanding excellence.
treestar
(82,383 posts)They are tough on recruits. To prepare them for a demanding job. Nobody calls it abuse.
Stand and Fight
(7,480 posts)Failure to do so could result in your death or that of your fellow service members. That's no where near the same thing.
treestar
(82,383 posts)but that it is similar in nature, so perhaps it should not be as extreme, but but if the job is one where you are involved in decisions that could affect people's lives, (and in working for the POTUS would include the military) you might want to be very thick-skinned.
jpak
(41,757 posts)Just sayin'
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)I don't know if she did such things, or not, but I'm amazed at how many people think this kind of behavior is acceptable.
Demit
(11,238 posts)Please share.
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)When the DES Office of Inspector General investigated, witnesses corroborated the employee's story of verbal and physical abuse, and the supervisor was arrested last week at work by armed OIG officers.
https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/arizona-des-worker-terrorized-by-abusive-boss-wanted-to-get-gun-and-shoot-someone-8239541
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)If anyone acted that way, even an executive, they would be tossed out on their ass eventually - or immediately depending upon the severity of the assault. Abuse is not tolerated, no matter who is dishing it out. People are expected to behave themselves, and almost always do, regardless of the pressure they may be under.
Boomer
(4,168 posts)Emotional abuse is not tolerated. We're held to high standards of productivity and professionalism, which includes basic respect for staff below and above.
whathehell
(29,065 posts)I'm female and have worked for both males and females who were abusive. They both suck.
Mike Nelson
(9,951 posts)
scandal. She's tough on staff! Elizabeth Warren was proud of Native American heritage! Hillary Clinton wanted a private email server!
considering the real scandals going on in the White House, these are really dumb.
PeeJ52
(1,588 posts)I'd say maybe some of the stories might be a little exaggerated. If she was a hothead, she would have blown her stack there for sure.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Instead, she interrogated his ass and made him look like a jackass.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)who have a public side and a somewhat contrasting private side. I'm not saying that Sen. Klobuchar is one of them for sure, but where there's smoke, there may be fire.
Kingofalldems
(38,444 posts)now doing a great job covering the political scene.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,105 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)elias7
(3,997 posts)As someone who has gone through the total immersion of a grueling medical residency, I know that sometimes you need extraordinary measures to learn to dig deep and realize that when something needs to get done, you get it done. There is no try, only do...
Paladin
(28,250 posts)If it comes down to a Klobuchar vs. trump contest, I will of course vote for her. For now, I'll support another Democratic candidate.
jmbar2
(4,872 posts)These stories are a big red flag for me, especially with so many good candidates available.
Having seen the toxic atmosphere created by a toxic leader, I am in wait and see mode. I have zero tolerance for abusive behavior anywhere. Great leaders hire great people and treat them with respect
Ferrets are Cool
(21,105 posts)customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)on the support in the general election thing, but I too have had nasty ass bosses.
Overall, the women I worked for were better than the men I worked for, but there were a couple of female supervisors who were way worse than any man I ever reported to. The best women bosses had an empathy that the best male managers could have only wished to aspire to.
nini
(16,672 posts)Pepsidog
(6,254 posts)Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)and thank her profusely for it. not everyone can take that. i couldn't, but i could move on.
Oneironaut
(5,491 posts)LBJ used to loom over people and scream in their faces.
I don't want leaders who would be my friend. They have a country to lead.
ISUGRADIA
(2,571 posts)Important people get to bully those below them, great idea! LBJ would intentionally humiliate people making them talk to him when he was sitting on the toilet.
A lot of these staffers are young in their 20s and dont even make minimum-wage given they are salaried.
Oneironaut
(5,491 posts)Of course bullying isnt ok - especially by bosses and people in positions of power. However, this is more shooting ourselves in the foot. I dont care if our next President is a nice person. Their job is to keep our country on the right course - we arent going to the movies together on the weekend!
Being a nice person isnt a requirement for the office. I would prefer someone who makes our lives better.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Be short of LBJ who could have gotten single payer through due to this. Obama was too nice. Saw plenty of that on DU.
barbtries
(28,787 posts)she was kind, generous, unbelievably energetic, and she could be vicious. we're still friends. not all of my co-workers are still friends with her. many are, including some whom she treated very badly at times. for some reason she very rarely targeted me; i don't know why, but I did have co-workers who I thought should quit.
it's not an excuse. but i can believe the reporting about Klobuchar considering that she did have the highest turnover in Congress. I don't consider it disqualifying necessarily. But it's a minus in my book. Think about the person in the WH right now. I doubt her behavior even qualifies as abusive compared to trump.
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)All candidates will have negative information put out about them. It doesn't matter if it's true or not, it will be played up in the media and by Trump.
What matters is how they respond. Do they wilt or dodge? Or do they take it on and turn it around? Klobuchar turned it around. Good job.
ISUGRADIA
(2,571 posts)I think this is indicative of why we need a unionized workforce on Capitol Hill.
former9thward
(31,973 posts)It is a tweet from someone else. There is no link to the quote.
klook
(12,154 posts)former9thward
(31,973 posts)Kingofalldems
(38,444 posts)The writer of the tweet is a respected reporter for the Washington Post. If you think she is lying let's have some evidence.
former9thward
(31,973 posts)Sorry if that offends you.
Laffy Kat
(16,376 posts)ZeroSomeBrains
(638 posts)She's going have to respond to these accusations with more contrition regarding her actions towards her staff. I wouldn't want to work for her if this stuff is considered acceptable behavior. And maybe she should have to act better than LBJ did back in the 60's. That's just my two cents.
pnwmom
(108,973 posts)that are suddenly being pushed on the same weekend that she announces her candidacy.
Color me very skeptical.
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)is being pushed by Biden or his people. Joe would certainly be aware of attrition rates in the senate. It is really sort of inside baseball stuff but I guess that must be all that he has.
Quixote1818
(28,928 posts)This is a pretty scathing letter. I would like someone to dig deeper on these things to get a fuller picture of all this:
https://www.scribd.com/document/399214761/AFSCME-Letter-on-Amy-Klobuchar-2006#from_embed
pnwmom
(108,973 posts)The state group had a bigger picture than the local group -- they knew Amy K. had worked for the raises the disgruntled employees were demanding -- and they decided to give Amy got the endorsement.
Laffy Kat
(16,376 posts)It's not a deal-breaker for me by any means and I am well aware of double standards at play. It's just I've worked with tyrants of both sexes and it was miserable. It's not good managing and it's not effective managing. You end up with a staff like our current president has, leaking and bad-mouthing.
Quixote1818
(28,928 posts)USALiberal
(10,877 posts)pnwmom
(108,973 posts)And one thing the report said is they were unhappy she hadn't been able to get them a higher pay increase.
pazzyanne
(6,547 posts)I can say this because I am one of her constituents! She easily has won her two re-election bids! She has been on my radar since early 2000, and had no bad press until now! Strange that this surfaces just before she is ready to announce throwing her hat in the ring. We have seen this tactic before, are seeing now on a national level, and it is just going to get worse as we move toward the 2020 election. Everyone has a chance to vet her themselves. I am just suggesting that the vetting be a total picture vetting, not focused on anonymous conjecture. Looking forward to the people making allegations stepping forward with their names attached!
yaesu
(8,020 posts)at a wood shop that made pallets for shipping. While working at the band saw the owner would show up, drunk, screaming at you to work faster, a very dangerous proposition when working with power saws. Now thats worker abuse.
Quixote1818
(28,928 posts)but it seems minor enough that if she gets the nomination it would be a tiny speck of an issue compared to ANY Republican!
The letter from the union refusing to endorse her because of treatment of her employees means something was going on.
jalan48
(13,856 posts)spanone
(135,816 posts)gulliver
(13,180 posts)She asked Kavanaugh whether he had ever had so much to drink he blacked out. He asked her, "Have you?" He did it a couple of times. Her response could have been a lot stronger there. She should have stood up from her chair, scowled, and gutted him like a fish. She could have said something like, "Are you seriously acting like a naughty ten-year-old on live TV in front of the Senate? Chairman, I have nothing further to ask Mr. Kavanaugh. He's plainly unfit to serve on the Supreme Court or any court. He doesn't have the maturity."
Instead she just said she didn't have a drinking problem.
Kavanaugh later apologized. He got away with the insult. Klobuchar later said she was stunned by his behavior or some such. That's no excuse in my book. By being stunned, she blew an opportunity to nail Kavanaugh.
I'll need to see more from her to trust she won't be "stunned" if/when she confronts Trump. Pelosi hasn't been.
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)It would have done nothing to Kavanaugh's bottom line toward confirmation.
Stand up and scowl? Acting like a 10-year old? Reminds me of the posters who want someone to shout, "You lie."
Klobuchar was much the best with Kavanaugh. I emphasized it immediately. It was obvious at the time, to anyone who knows what swing voters prioritize. That's why she has received so much praise for that questioning.
IluvPitties
(3,181 posts)abusive people are not my cup of tea. I hope this gets clarified.
brooklynite
(94,493 posts)Now, what about all the people who insisted that this story story was made up?
Vinca
(50,260 posts)I don't think you can expect hearts and flowers at the end of the day if you're a political aide. It's a tough business and not everyone is suited to it. I read somewhere that the person complaining about doing personal errands for her has a job with a description that includes running personal errands.
Rene
(1,183 posts)folks remember. won't let her get away with it
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)"I can be though". "I run a tight ship". "I'm demanding". "I push my employees".
Every bad boss has the same excuse for being a bad boss.
nini
(16,672 posts)I'm a manager - I expect the same level of hard work from my team as I do myself.
However, I don't cut them down in front of others, demean them if they're too slow or not perfect etc..
She's known for going way beyond 'having high expectations'.
Boomer
(4,168 posts)I don't want a Dem version of an abusive POTUS setting up yet another revolving door of White House staff.
A White House staff that walks on eggshells is not focused on their job and will hesitate before speaking Truth to Power. That's not the kind of POTUS this country needs.
Texin
(2,594 posts)My god. She was a successful prosecutor. A woman in that kind of job has got to be tough as nails. Hell, a woman in any professional position or elected office that is, and has been, traditionally male-dominated, has got to be three or four times harder and more professional than the average male. And because they are, and they are successful, they are consistently going to be criticized as being hard and demanding. So what? These ninnies haven't been around the average male executive professional? Why is "demanding" behavior, which includes stating unambiguous expectations and meting out reasonable criticism when demanded. As people have noted, there are some positions, professional or political, that are highly stressful because of the absolute critical role that person plays. These are the type of positions in which the person occupying the position or office must account to the people they represent. Anyone accepting a role within such an organization, campaign, political office, should sure understand that going in. Staffers working for such a person know that the job is going to be stressful and demand more than putting in a mere eight hours. When they slack or wilt under pressure and an assignment gets blown or a deadline missed may mean the difference between meeting a critical challenge or winning a particular case, or race. People that can't handle that kind of environment should not be in the position to begin with. And any male who is in a similar position as Klobuchar's who was described as "tough" would be respected for it.
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)Very rare combination.
I don't doubt we'll throw it away.
Your summary was excellent toward the responsibility of those staff roles. I couldn't tolerate poor performance and would likely have some poor moments. But since I'm a 6 foot 4 white male in his late 50s I could undoubtedly get away with it.
BannonsLiver
(16,363 posts)Pro tip: if you get an email from someone claiming to be a prince from a far away country who wants to give you millions of dollars dont respond.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)The media loved to proclaim that her campaign staff was unhappy and undedicated, and didn't even require a shred of evidence to substantiate it. People who weren't on her campaign are given total right to describe the experience that was had by people who were actually on it, and people who were on it are ignored when they speak out.
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)Among let's say 100 check boxes, when considering a potential presidential nominee?
Just an observation. I never see the topic here. But now it's being used as outright disqualifier.
Absolutely amazing how so many people are transfixed by recent news as opposed to the big picture.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)No, wait, I'm not surprised.