Create new account | My Profile | My Account | My Bookmarks | My Inbox | Help | Log in

Home Latest Threads Greatest Threads Forums & Groups My Subscriptions My Posts

DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » How do you feel about "cu...

Mon Feb 4, 2019, 02:25 PM

grumpyduck (5,335 posts)

How do you feel about "cultural appropriation?"

Long story short, the more I think about this term, the more it seems it's being used by many as a a way of saying, "we're different." IOW, we're in different groups and you can't use my stuff because it disrespects my group. It seems like a way of dividing people.

So, can cultural appropriation extend to, say, having Chinese or Indian food if you're not either? Many years ago we attended a Seder, and the host, who knew I was Catholic, asked me if I'd be offended by wearing a yarmulke. I said absolutely not; actually, I was honored that he would invite me to wear one.

Has this whole concept gone too far? I find it especially interesting in the U.S., which was traditionally seen as a melting pot.

16 replies, 1617 views

Thread info Bookmark this thread Trash this thread

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum

Replies to this discussion thread

16 replies	Author	Time	Post
How do you feel about "cultural appropriation?" (Original post)	grumpyduck	Feb 2019	OP
FFS	demmiblue	Feb 2019	#1
What matters is respect.	2naSalit	Feb 2019	#2
So, by those rules...	Freelancer	Feb 2019	#10
It's an easy thing to get wrong. It's not cultural diffusion.	Bucky	Feb 2019	#3
Poorly understood	zipplewrath	Feb 2019	#4
Cultural Appropriation is about claiming ownership.	Adrahil	Feb 2019	#5
"You can't use my stuff because it disrespects my group. It seems like a way of dividing people."	WhiskeyGrinder	Feb 2019	#6
I prefer the concept of "acculturation"	Locutusofborg	Feb 2019	#7
I do not give one goddam about it.	Loki Liesmith	Feb 2019	#8
Steal everything you can . . .	Journeyman	Feb 2019	#9
From what I've seen so far it's total B.S.	mart48	Feb 2019	#11
Why would you assume	Locutusofborg	Feb 2019	#12
Golden rule's good enough for me. A basic set of manners covers it too.	Hortensis	Feb 2019	#15
I believe historical acculturation happens regardless of what we think about it.	LanternWaste	Feb 2019	#13
I think most reverent imitation is done from a sense of admiration and respect	Goodheart	Feb 2019	#14
Cultures have borrowed from each other since the begining of time	Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin	Feb 2019	#16

Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2019, 02:32 PM

demmiblue (35,453 posts)

1. FFS

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2019, 02:32 PM

2naSalit (70,494 posts)

2. What matters is respect.

If you cannot honor the source of that which you make use or use something of significance to a culture other than your own to mock or repurpose without asking permission or at least showing respect then, yes it's offensive.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to 2naSalit (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 4, 2019, 03:14 PM

Freelancer (2,107 posts)

10. So, by those rules...

So, let me get this straight. By that reasoning, if Wynton Marsalis uses a trumpet to play jazz without thanking the white Europeans who invented the instrument, that's okay, but if he uses it to play polka music, and rolls his eyes mockingly while doing it, then that use of the trumpet is cultural appropriation?

I have another idea. Let W.M. do whatever the f#@k he wants with it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2019, 02:36 PM

Bucky (52,331 posts)

3. It's an easy thing to get wrong. It's not cultural diffusion.

examples range from the frivolous (people complaining about the corn rows hair style as the "Bo Derek look") to the genuinely racist (Col Parker looking for a "white nigger" to make a mint off of and using Elvis Pressley to make his fortune while never remunerating or acknowledging the black artists they got the material from).

It's a difficult topic to nail down. But the rules of thumb I use are (1) is it demeaning or dismissive of cultural origins? and (2) is it tied to exploitation or oppression of other cultural groups?

American artists who draw from the fullness of American culture will inevitably draw influences from artists of diverse backgrounds. Honoring the source material and being non-exclusionary is how this cultural sharing can happen without being exploitive. A professor I know uses the Vanilla Ice - Eminem comparison.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2019, 02:38 PM

zipplewrath (16,564 posts)

4. Poorly understood

I think the concept is poorly understood and often applied incorrectly.

Quite honestly one has to also understand and acknowledge that it has been going on for thousands of years.

In the current environment, I think it is a legitimate gripe that the adoption of certain practices for in essence "inappropriate" purposes is what is being referenced. Basically, if you are adopting a practice as it is intended to be, that's acceptable. If you are basically mimicking a practice, especially out of context, you're probably in trouble.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2019, 02:40 PM

Adrahil (13,340 posts)

5. Cultural Appropriation is about claiming ownership.

You can participate in, or even borrow from a culture without appropriating it.

The problem comes when one claims some cultural artifact and interprets it as if they originated it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2019, 02:41 PM

WhiskeyGrinder (19,570 posts)

6. "You can't use my stuff because it disrespects my group. It seems like a way of dividing people."

If this is your understanding of what cultural appropriation is, I encourage you to read more about it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2019, 02:50 PM

Locutusofborg (476 posts)

7. I prefer the concept of "acculturation"

To "cultural appropriation," which is often used as an accusation: "you're stealing my stuff!"
When people of various cultures inhabit the same geographic space, they will impact and change each other through the processes of their interactions.
Being asked and agreeing to wear a yarmulke is different from coming to a Seder already wearing a yarmulke without having been asked.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2019, 03:07 PM

Loki Liesmith (4,598 posts)

8. I do not give one goddam about it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2019, 03:11 PM

Journeyman (14,725 posts)

9. Steal everything you can . . .

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2019, 03:23 PM

mart48 (82 posts)

11. From what I've seen so far it's total B.S.

But I'm willing to change my mind if someone can explain to me how it makes sense.

Specifically, I'd need an explanation of why it's wrong to appropriate X's culture when it's OK that X wears blue jeans, has an iPhone in his/her pocket, uses PCs and the internet, watches Hollywood movies and T.V. shows, etc., etc.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to mart48 (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 4, 2019, 04:20 PM

Locutusofborg (476 posts)

12. Why would you assume

That members of only one culture created any of those things?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to mart48 (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 4, 2019, 04:47 PM

Hortensis (55,732 posts)

15. Golden rule's good enough for me. A basic set of manners covers it too.

If I find something I'm doing is offensive to some group, I stop. Of course, a fair proportion have to actually care, but I don't get to decide if they should be offended, they do.

Of course, if the offense is just taken by the overly sensitive sorts who always rush to be upset, they'll have to lump it. But even then I'd try not to upset them if we met. Bless their prickly, unbalanced little hearts.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2019, 04:25 PM

LanternWaste (37,748 posts)

13. I believe historical acculturation happens regardless of what we think about it.

That said, I don't see anyone of note or substance arguing it should stop, or reduce its velocity.

Everything else in your post can be addressed by simply opening our eyes and ears as individuals as ask "am I myself being respectful?"

Granted, those too-clever-for-their-own-good can easily deconstruct the question "am I being respectful" to such a degree as to rationalize any behavior in themselves, but that's simply because they're not asking themselves the question with sincerity, but rather with a defensive agenda.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2019, 04:30 PM

Goodheart (4,595 posts)

14. I think most reverent imitation is done from a sense of admiration and respect

I reject the notion that Paul Simon, for example, was being insensitive and disrespectful for writing and performing Graceland or Rhythm of the Saints. I say lay off, and be proud that someone else wants to participate in something you created.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to grumpyduck (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2019, 05:25 PM

Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (97,249 posts)

16. Cultures have borrowed from each other since the begining of time

I find the term cultural appropriation a bit annoying

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

General Discussion (Forum)