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Sun Feb 3, 2019, 02:54 PM

Divide and Conquer at the New York Times Today

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/02/opinion/sunday/women-voting-19th-amendment-white-supremacy.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

I encourage DUers to read and comment on this piece. Did you know that Black folks in this country suffer under oppression because their disenfranchised white sisters did not liberate them? Did you know that women suffer under oppression, because their disenfranchised Black brothers did not liberate them? This is the subtle message of this piece, which serves the purpose of Capital by pitting workers against each other---in this case women versus racial minorities, but it could have been written one hundred years ago about Italians versus Irish. Many, many years ago, Engels commented that the American capitalist keeps worker's wages low and prevents unionization by workers by pitting one groups of immigrants against another. We still do--this is the real motive of Trump's War on Immigrants. But as the number of immigrants coming to this country has slowed, we have increasingly pitted young versus old, gay versus not-gay, Black versus white, men versus women, disabled versus not-disabled.

Wake up and smell the Divide and Conquer, working class America. How do you think the 1% manage to keep the rest of us under their thumb in a so called democracy? They do it by encouraging us to fight among ourselves. And they tell us that any attempt to talk about "capital" and "wages" and "unions" is somehow un-American. Marxist economic theory is only un-American if you think that the real American are the billionaires who get rich stealing the labor of others.

And remember, Dr. King became a real threat to the establishment when he began to focus on worker's rights. He was in Memphis to support a union when he was murdered. And Brother Malcolm became a threat (and was murdered) when he came back from mecca convinced that whites were not the enemy and that we should all work together.

Solidarity!

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Arrow 28 replies Author Time Post
Reply Divide and Conquer at the New York Times Today (Original post)
McCamy Taylor Feb 3 OP
EndGOPPropaganda Feb 3 #1
marylandblue Feb 3 #2
mountain grammy Feb 3 #3
McCamy Taylor Feb 3 #4
mountain grammy Feb 3 #19
Ms. Toad Feb 3 #5
McCamy Taylor Feb 3 #6
BamaRefugee Feb 3 #8
McCamy Taylor Feb 3 #9
BamaRefugee Feb 3 #11
erronis Feb 3 #14
dlk Feb 3 #7
paleotn Feb 3 #10
zentrum Feb 3 #12
fountainofyouth Feb 3 #13
ffr Feb 3 #15
FakeNoose Feb 3 #18
randr Feb 3 #16
El Shaman Feb 3 #17
still_one Feb 3 #20
ismnotwasm Feb 3 #22
McCamy Taylor Feb 3 #23
still_one Feb 3 #24
JHan Feb 4 #28
ismnotwasm Feb 3 #21
hedda_foil Feb 4 #25
Hortensis Feb 4 #26
Spider Jerusalem Feb 4 #27

Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 03:00 PM

1. Less discussed is that King backed the Poor People's March too

King was not just a civil rights hero but a progressive hero.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 03:07 PM

2. It's a part of larger untold story about race in America

Many of the hard-fought rights we have gained in the country have come at the cost of denying those rights to black people. We remain at risk of doing it again if we don't recognize how much it has happened in the past.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 03:13 PM

3. K&R

Wake up and smell the divide and conquer America!

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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 03:15 PM

4. Love it!

And love you, Mountain Granny! As one granny to another, old age rocks!

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 06:01 PM

19. You got that right

Every day I thank goodness I’m 71 and healthy. Love my granddaughters forever but fear for their future.
Love your too granny McCamy Taylor.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 03:18 PM

5. History is your friend?

Any honest exploration of liberation movements includes an exploration of the internalized misogyny, racism, and homophobia.

Are you aware, for example, that one of the significant barriers to the numerous federal LGBT ENDA (employment nondiscrimniation act) bills introduced in nearly every congress since 1994 is the internal struggle with whether to insist on inclusion of transgender individuals as a protected class (introduced in 2007, for the first time as part of the bill). It would be much easier to obtain protection for the more mainstream/acceptable LGB individuals. Why shouldn't we grab what we can get, and come back and pick up trans rights later on?

You don't even have to leave DU to find progressive democrats as recently as 14 years ago blaming LGBT people for the election loss because we refused to sit patiently at the back of the bus waiting our turn (ironically in an election when the RIGHT introduced numerous ballot initiatives to use my marriage to drive people the polls - which I, and most other LGBT individuals remained silent on because we knew the Supreme Court was more important than individual state laws). Again in 2009, at the inauguration, we were scolded for being hurt and outraged at Obama's inclusion of the rabid homophobe Rick Warren on the inaugural stage. Many of us were so sickened by it that we could not celebrate something we had dreamed of and worked so hard for - the first black president. Because rather than celebrate the umbrella that put him in office, Obama (and many on DU) told us to shut up, sit down, and wait our turn.

So while I agree that we need solidarity - and we need to expand the pie (rather than fighting for the ever smaller slivers we are given). It is critical that we acknowledge our shameful history on that front so we don't repeat it.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 03:32 PM

6. Thank you. If we all were more honest about our feelings, we would all get along better together

and the movement towards human liberation would move that much faster.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 04:11 PM

8. There's 35% of the population totally honest about their feelings and they're not helping ANYTHING!

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Response to BamaRefugee (Reply #8)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 04:23 PM

9. You mean Trump's base? They do not even know themselves, so how can they be honest?

If they knew themselves, they would understand that they hate themselves and hate their lives, and this is why they project so much hatred onto others.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #9)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 04:32 PM

11. They know full well. They absolutely LUXURIATE in their hatred.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #9)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 05:02 PM

14. I agree with you. The dump base is not prone to introspection or questioning their feeders.

It's very hard to be a total zealot about anything if you allow yourself to question the underpinnings of the belief.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 04:01 PM

7. It Would be Naive to Think Those at the Top..

...will not spread disinformation to maintain their stranglehold on this country’s wealth. As they have shown, they are capable of anything.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 04:26 PM

10. I'm not getting any subtle message, other than what the evidence shows.

And I read the article in its entirety this morning. Apparently the evidence shows that white women, particularly in the south, could and can be just as racist as their male counterparts. Trust me. I've seen that first hand, thank you very much. That's not divide and conquer. That's simply the truth. Seeking truth in the past isn't in and of itself a tactic of divide and conquer. It's just seeking truth wherever it might lead. Sometimes to very uncomfortable places, but that's fine. It's the truth that matters. Personally, I like truth far more than reading more into something then is actually there.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 04:58 PM

12. Excellent Post. Thnx.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 05:01 PM

13. I have to ask, McMamy

Are you a black American? If not, there's a rich irony for enjoining us all to be in "solidarity" while criticizing a black author for trying to present a history that doesn't gloss over race in the narrative of progress. The author's point was that any idea of women's solidarity went by the wayside when white women pushed for the franchise but left black women out.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 05:05 PM

15. Beware the ratEFFers, like Roger Stone and Fox Entertainment.

Solidarity!

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Response to ffr (Reply #15)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 05:41 PM

18. Yep the RatF*ers are everywhere these days

All Roger Stone wannabe's

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 05:07 PM

16. We still need to address this issue and soon

Until then we will be vulnerable to be divided by people who do not have a care for ending racism.
Forgiveness and compassion must be part of who we are!
We must find a way to accept honest change in people and to hold those who are incapable of change to as high a bar as we hold ourselves.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 05:07 PM

17. Trump and

all his ilk/kin were the new immigrants, 20th-21st. Century to this great country of ours.
The Cosa Nuestra blazed the trail for the Germanic mix/races.
Only the white privilege ($$$$$) was to their advantage . TY.

Why are all whites pt Cherokee ???
I wonder, how we lost it.
????

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 07:07 PM

20. Did the OP even read the NY Times editorial?

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Response to still_one (Reply #20)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 07:12 PM

22. Doubt it.

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Response to still_one (Reply #20)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 11:09 PM

23. Several times. As well as the replies. That is why I sent three responses and not just my usual one.

One thing I have to say for the NYT, they are not afraid of political debate. I seriously did not expect them to post a response that started with "Sorry, but I have to interject a little Marxism here." Glad to see that the Times is not afraid of the M word. Or the C word (class) or the W word (workers).

I realize that the author may not be aware of the political time bomb upon which he tread. This was probably written weeks ago. Just his bad luck that a certain story got wide media play this weekend.

Still recommend Angela Davis's "Women, Race and Class" as the best analysis of the issue. From a Marxist perspective.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 11:26 PM

24. It isn't a question of trying to divide, it is a question of history.

African-American women dealt not only with sexism of not being able to vote, but also the racism of white suffragists. That changed as time went on, but it was a fact through the 19th century, and up until the Civil Rights Movement in the 20th century when things started to change.

As far as you wanting to bring marxism into dialog, I will simply say, we disagree


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Response to still_one (Reply #20)

Mon Feb 4, 2019, 06:07 AM

28. Unlikely

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 07:10 PM

21. Holy Fucking Shit

Just no.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2019, 12:13 AM

25. McCamy, this is a single opinion piece by a black columnist writing about AA women.

It's not by the editorial board and the columnist makes legitimate points. You are entitled to your opinion but in my opinion, you're way off the mark.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2019, 02:54 AM

26. We the Electorate have been divided and partially conquered.

The narrow focus of this article merely illustrates part of that. And those determined to strip us all of power to stop them will continue to further the winning tactic of divide and conquer until and if they are able to get enough power to disenfranchise everyone.

If they succeed, it will only be because we did wrong and failed to stand strong. And if they succeed we will have a whole new equality regardless of color, but not the kind we wanted.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Mon Feb 4, 2019, 06:00 AM

27. The history of women's suffrage in the USA is inextricably intertwined with white supremacy.

Acknowledging this historical truth is not "divide and conquer", no matter how uncomfortable the facts may make some white people.

An example: women were first granted the right to vote in the United States in Wyoming Territory in 1869. The bill was introduced by one William H. Bright (who, incidentally, is my 4th great-uncle - his sister was my great-great-great-grandmother); Bright was a staunch Democrat, and was opposed to the granting of the right to vote to newly-freed slaves; part of his reasoning for his women's suffrage bill was that if black men, who he regarded as inferior, should be allowed to vote, then so too should white women: https://www.wyohistory.org/encyclopedia/right-choice-wrong-reasons-wyoming-women-win-right-vote

The League of Women Voters, at least, acknowledges this uncomfortable history:

The League was founded in 1920—just months before the ratification of the 19th Amendment—by American suffragist Carrie Chapman Catt. Catt was a complicated character, a political operative, and by modern standards, yes, racist. While fighting for the 19th Amendment and lobbying Southern senators, she famously claimed, “White supremacy will be strengthened, not weakened, by women’s suffrage.”


https://www.lwv.org/blog/facing-hard-truths-about-leagues-origin

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