People who hoard money have a disease, an addiction.

[Claritie Pixie]

Billionaires...even millionaires....who have a lot more than they need to make their lives easy, don't share, and still want MORE...it's not normal.

There have been studies done showing that once a person's basic needs of shelter, clothing, food, and comfort are met, anything above and beyond that does not add to quality of life or happiness.

If these people are ever expected to contribute to society and help their fellow man, they act as if someone is trying to steal their Halloween candy. They can become downright mean and nasty. Donald Trump and Howie Shultz are really exposing the ugly underbelly of hoarding money.

(I realize there are philanthropists who help with their wealth, so not talking about them).

[Rorey]

1. "The king was in the counting room counting up his money"

I've never been a greedy person and just don't understand the concept of needing more and more and more.

[HipChick]

2. Why should they help?

They should pay their fair share of taxes though...

[Claritie Pixie]

3. Because they care? Wow, what a concept! Paying taxes IS helping.

[HipChick]

11. Care about what?

[Claritie Pixie]

12. Seriously?

[Codeine]

4. ". . . it's not normal."

It most assuredly is normal, completely and totally so. Throughout history those with wealth have sought more wealth, it’s part of the basic human condition.

And I take exception to the notion that anything above basic shelter and food doesn’t add to happiness. I’ve had periods where I had not enough, just barely enough, and a bit more than enough. The times when I had a bit more than enough I was infinitely happier than when I was scraping by. A nicer, roomier home, a better car, and more money for hobbies or entertainment all very much contribute to increased happiness in my experience.

That said, rich people shouldn’t whine about progressive taxation. There’s a basic social contract, assholes.

[lagomorph777]

41. If you had $5 million, would you still feel like you need more?

At some point, people who sacrifice all else (morality, pride, family) to get more are NOT normal. Yes, there is always a part of the population a few standard deviations from the mean, who are excessively greedy. But if "normal" is, say, 4 or 5 standard deviations from the mean, billionaires are assuredly not "normal."

[RKP5637]

5. It's an Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) much like gambling IMO, sometimes

coupled with sociopathic behavior. That said, it does not apply in no manner to all.

PS: What gripes me are those that rip off the system and do not pay taxes, shelter income offshore ... and politicians who rise to power stripping away the ability to fairly tax. Many corporations fall into the same bucket.

[ck4829]

24. It really is.

[democratisphere]

6. Wealthoholics.

Insatiable.

[Sneederbunk]

7. Could be a reality tv show "Hoarders - Money Division"

[NRaleighLiberal]

8. Wealth is corrupting.

[ck4829]

23. It is.

[Kitchari]

9. Greed seems to take hold from a sense of lack

And my theory is they probably have strong fears about their own security, status, or sense of worth.

[marylandblue]

10. Money at that level is about power and status not comfort or possessions

I wouldn't call it affliction, but for many people, power and status are basic needs. These are the sort of people who are driven to become billionaires. It's probably a basic instinct we inherited from our tribal ancestors, but since not everyone can be top dog, we all have it in varying degrees. Some of us are also more impressed by power and status than others, so are more likely to unquestioningly obey the powerful. This encourages the powerful to seek more power on behalf of "their tribe."

[cwydro]

13. Yeah, Kanye and the Ks.

At least the Gates’ and Oprah give back.

[Joe941]

14. Yup you nailed it. Let's help them out by taxing them to oblivion!

[ck4829]

22. +1. It's time for some public medicine.

[Mariana]

38. "Taxing them to oblivion"? Really? nt.

[Joe941]

39. Its immoral that there are millionaires and especially billionaires.

[grumpyduck]

15. Besides, are they going to take it with them?

[ck4829]

25. +1

[TexasBushwhacker]

16. You could take 99% of Jeff Bezos net worth ($137B)

and he would still be obscenely wealthy ($1.37B). Considering that there are Amazon warehouse workers who qualify for SNAP, Earned Income Credit and subsidized housing, there's just something profoundly twisted about that. Someone with $1Billion in the bank could spend $27K every single day for 100 years and not run out of money.

[SWBTATTReg]

31. Walmart owners are the same way...very wealthy and yet quite a few of their own workers...

have to go on public welfare (SNAP, etc. the ones you mentioned in your post). It's obscene. I heard of a proposal (and never heard anything else about it) that the owners of such large corporations should be made to pay back the state and/or federal government for assistance provided to their workers due to low pay (in effect we're all paying for Walmart's / Amazon's workers). Something very wrong about this.

[TexasBushwhacker]

35. I agree. The thing that gets me about Walmart

is that their business model is just a race to the bottom. Their gross revenue in the US is $500 Billion every year. They could raise their prices 2%, making the cost of a $100 cart of groceries go up $2, and raise $10 Billion that they could use to give their employees $3 to $4 more an hour. Instead, they use their spare cash to do stock buybacks which just makes them even richer. Since the Walton heirs, those genetic lottery winners, own 51% of all Walmart stock, they can't blame their fucked up business model on the stockholders. They ARE the stockholders.

And they call themselves Christians ...

[SWBTATTReg]

37. Really. My sister worked there and finally retired. I'm curious as to how her retirement is ...

working out so far, being it's from Walmart. I don't have much faith, but then again, a lot of corporations all seemed to rightsize themselves and adjust all sorts of compensation plans, medical plans, etc. (solely for their own benefit, not the worker's benefit).

[Tom Rinaldo]

18. A single working class mom who throws a buck into a Salvaton Army bucket is 1000x more generous...

...than a multi-billionaire philanthropist who gives hundreds of millions to charity. They still have billions of dollars left over after they they write that check. She still has to scrimp to cover her most basic household expenses.

[ck4829]

21. Yep

[brooklynite]

19. Retaining savings does not equate to "hoarding"

J.K. Rowling has a net worth of approx. $1 B, acquired, we would all agree, without oppressing the working class. How much of her money should she get rid of?

[SoFlaDem]

27. Imagine a world with a fair enough distribution

that people don't starve, go without medical care or basic necessities. I see all humans as equal and deserving. People who are poor are usually so as the result of circumstances beyond their control, including diseases, mental or physical.

All humans are worth the same and for someone to take such a big piece of the pie seems piggish to me.

[brooklynite]

28. What is your threshold number?

And should it be acceptable for life in the United States, or should we establish a world standard?

[SoFlaDem]

29. According to the New York Times

the richest 1 percent in the United States now own more wealth than the bottom 90 percent.

That is obscene to me when so many people suffer from poverty.

If I had a billion Dollars, there would be no reason for me to not give $900,000,000 (90%) to charity and be left with $100,000,000.

[treestar]

33. She doesn't complain and lives in a country with

national healthcare, so she is probably paying for health care for other people.

She was once on the dole or something like that.

The billionaires here are objecting to their taxes! She's not.

[TexasBushwhacker]

36. Actually, some years she gives so much away that she loses her billionaire status

She's gone on the record that she is happy to pay taxes.

[treestar]

40. Yes, I remember her saying she got help once

before she hit the big time with her books. So she is fine with paying in when she's on the other side.

A lot of middle class white repubs don't get that it is there for them if they need it; they don't imagine anything bad happening to them so it's too easy for them to blame the poor. And then take the side of the billionaires on the question of their taxes.

[Claritie Pixie]

42. From your posts in this thread, I think it's likely you have a lot of money.

They're somewhat snarky - doesn't make sense to me that you would be so defensive. There is NO good reason why a billionaire would react like a child when expected to pay his/her fair share of taxes.


JK Rowling donates a large amount of her wealth to charity. She is one of the few who do it and I applaud her for it.

The majority however, don't want to part with a penny.

[ck4829]

20. K&R

[mainer]

26. It's because capitalism instills insecurity. "What if I lose it all?"

Wealthy people live in fear of losing it all with an illness, bankruptcy, etc. They wonder how much they need to keep them going through retirement. They don't trust safety nets because they think we're all on our own. So they hold onto their money.

If we had a sturdy safety net and universal health care and no one had to worry about keeping a roof over their head or food on the table, I suspect there'd be less hoarding.

[Grasswire2]

30. and the INTERVENTION for this ADDICTION is TAXATION!!

That's what we do for addictions.

Intervention.

TAXATION will redirect the attention of a wealth hoarder.

[Bettie]

32. Human dragons

sleeping on their hoards.

[Johnny2X2X]

34. The people are fed up

Something has to give. It's not OK in a free country for a hand full of families to control more wealth than the bottom 150 million citizens. People are not going to stand for it much longer.

America is the richest nation in the history of the world. And all of that wealth is generated by the workers, every penny of it. The workers don't get a fair share of the fruits of their labors. American workers should be by far the highest compensated workers in the world.

The working class is fighting and scratching for a $15 minimum wage when if you look at the amount of wealth in the country we should be fighting for a $30 an hour minimum wage. America has more wealth than any nation, we should have the best healthcare free for all, the best roads, the best schools, the best retirements, the best of everything. Instead we starve the government so the rich can keep it all. We let the roads and bridges fall apart so Trump's buddies can buy extra vacation homes and private jets. We let the schools crumble so Mitt Romney can install a car elevator in his garage. We don't feed hungry children so Melania Trump can wear $100,000 dresses. So Jeff Bezos can have a 50,000 square foot home, we don't fund the college system and people have to graduate with tens of thousands in debt to even have a chance at a god job. Millions of seniors choose between buying their medication and buying groceries just so Hedge Fund managers can buy private islands and private zoos.

It's all so sick. It's all so wrong. It all has to stop, this is our country not theirs. The workers created the wealth, they have the right to demand to share in it.

[Claritie Pixie]

43. I told my daughter yesterday that the capitalism backlash is coming.

Kids are realizing they have no future because the earth is angry and may wipe us out before they can get old. They're going to be very angry at the rest of us who have done nothing. They will change things to survive.

[BannonsLiver]

44. Meh..I've been hearing that for 40 years

As a people Americans are compliant. Always have been and probably always will be. Now the French, that’s another story.

[Johnny2X2X]

45. It wasn't always like this here

Last edited Thu Feb 7, 2019, 05:07 PM - Edit history (1)

Sure, there were other problems in America, but there were generations where a single average income could support a family of 4 in dignity. A single wage earner could provide a home, 2 cars, and be able to take vacations and save enough money for their children to go to college. The wealth in this country is rising not getting smaller. Most of it is going to the very few at the top who are now so divorced from reality that their lifestyles approach royalty.

It wasn't always like this, and it's not always going to be like this in the future.

I feel pretty accomplished in my life, I have been extremely lucky. Found a way to graduate from college with an engineering degree. Lucked into a good job that paid for my way through a graduate degree in business. Have moved up in my career and have fulfilling job. But you know what? Wife owns her own small business and contributes to our household. But you know what? I'm still not doing as well as my dad did as a skilled tradesman in the auto industry for the 70s, 80s, and 90s. He made more money than me, supported an entire family, and now enjoys a better retirement than I likely will and he did all of that without a degree and the mountain of student loan debt I now have. Healthcare was also affordable and better his working life than I have now.

You basically need advanced degrees today to approach the middle class lifestyles our parents and grand parents enjoyed. Why? Because starting with Nixon the middle class has been under assault by the rich.