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Wed Jan 30, 2019, 03:54 PM

Note To Bloomberg: Like A Lot Of People, I Own A House. And Every Year I Have To Pay...

...every year I have to pay a 2% property tax on it. It's not an income tax, it's a PROPERTY tax. And property is a form of static wealth. It's not easy to get the money, in fact it eats up about 20% of my net income. I usually have to save it. Sometimes I have to sell something I don't want to sell. But I pay this tax on my WEALTH, in order to maintain my city's schools, roads, sewers, police and fire departments etc.

So, this idea that a wealth tax is a SHOCKING, RADICAL, SOCIALIST IDEA is bullshit. Regular people pay 'wealth taxes' every day.

It's only to people like you, who are worth 48 BILLION DOLLARS, who have gotten used to paying a 15% Capital Gains tax, and gotten used to politicians who flatter you by telling you you're better than regular people because you're a 'job creator' as they're begging for campaign donations that the idea sounds "radical." GET OVER IT.

I understand that it may be a bit of a shock to suddenly have politicians who don't say that anymore. Apparently you didn't manage to bribe them ALL, but that's a good thing.

And while we're at it, will you billionaires STFU about Venezuala being an example of a 'socialist country?' It's not. It's an example of a kleptocracy that CALLS itself a socialist country.

If you want to wave around an example of a REAL democratic socialist country, try Norway, or Sweden, or Denmark, or Holland. Or...heck...maybe even ALASKA, where they TAX the oil companies for the oil they drill out of public land, and then DISTRIBUTE THE WEALTH that's generated among the citizens of Alaska.

If you don't stop name dropping Venezuela as an example of democratic socialism, we're going to start name dropping the best example of a true CAPITALIST country. That would be RUSSIA. Very few govt regulations, and a nearly flat tax rate, combined with plutocrats carving up the countrie's resources. You get a country where FIVE OLIGARCHS own all the wealth in the country, and use it to control the political system to their advantage. The country produces and sells NOTHING BUT OIL AND WEAPONS, and the average per capital income is about $5000.

If Russia seems ugly to you, take a good look, because that's the direction WE'RE headed. Yay for capitalism!

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Reply Note To Bloomberg: Like A Lot Of People, I Own A House. And Every Year I Have To Pay... (Original post)
TrollBuster9090 Jan 2019 OP
alwaysinasnit Jan 2019 #1
onit2day Jan 2019 #72
Johnny2X2X Jan 2019 #2
Adrahil Jan 2019 #3
SWBTATTReg Jan 2019 #4
Traildogbob Jan 2019 #21
mercuryblues Jan 2019 #48
moondust Jan 2019 #5
exboyfil Jan 2019 #6
ProfessorPlum Jan 2019 #7
KT2000 Jan 2019 #8
Perseus Jan 2019 #9
TrollBuster9090 Jan 2019 #14
bigbrother05 Jan 2019 #22
TrollBuster9090 Jan 2019 #25
Lonestarblue Jan 2019 #36
crosinski Jan 2019 #71
ZeroSomeBrains Jan 2019 #10
pdsimdars Jan 2019 #11
TrollBuster9090 Jan 2019 #13
JayhawkSD Jan 2019 #57
Goodheart Jan 2019 #12
montanacowboy Jan 2019 #15
BamaRefugee Jan 2019 #16
ProudProgressiveNow Jan 2019 #17
pangaia Jan 2019 #18
aggiesal Jan 2019 #39
pangaia Jan 2019 #42
smirkymonkey Jan 2019 #19
BSdetect Jan 2019 #20
TrollBuster9090 Jan 2019 #28
pangaia Jan 2019 #35
AllyCat Jan 2019 #23
llmart Jan 2019 #24
ananda Jan 2019 #26
Kurt V. Jan 2019 #27
burrowowl Jan 2019 #29
yonder Jan 2019 #30
eleny Jan 2019 #31
csziggy Jan 2019 #32
paleotn Jan 2019 #33
Duppers Jan 2019 #34
Maru Kitteh Jan 2019 #37
Captain Stern Jan 2019 #38
oberliner Jan 2019 #40
LiberalLovinLug Jan 2019 #41
tblue37 Jan 2019 #43
buzzroller Jan 2019 #44
BobTheSubgenius Jan 2019 #45
TexasBushwhacker Jan 2019 #73
Honeycombe8 Jan 2019 #46
buzzroller Jan 2019 #47
Honeycombe8 Jan 2019 #49
marylandblue Jan 2019 #50
Honeycombe8 Jan 2019 #63
marylandblue Jan 2019 #64
Honeycombe8 Jan 2019 #66
marylandblue Jan 2019 #67
Honeycombe8 Jan 2019 #68
marylandblue Jan 2019 #69
wasupaloopa Jan 2019 #51
AJT Jan 2019 #52
efhmc Jan 2019 #53
TomSlick Jan 2019 #54
summer_in_TX Jan 2019 #55
WhiteHat Jan 2019 #56
JayhawkSD Jan 2019 #58
SunSeeker Jan 2019 #59
anarch Jan 2019 #60
malaise Jan 2019 #61
Ninga Jan 2019 #62
calimary Jan 2019 #65
marybourg Jan 2019 #70
SoCalDem Jan 2019 #75
SoCalDem Jan 2019 #74
doompatrol39 Jan 2019 #76
scarytomcat Jan 2019 #77
Joe941 Jan 2019 #78

Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 03:58 PM

1. That was an awesome rant.

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Response to alwaysinasnit (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 02:37 PM

72. The wealthy need to pay a yrly tax on their wealth,on stcks, bonds,wealth held in Banks.

 

The poor and middle class have their wealth or " property" taxed every year but the wealthy hold their "property" in stocks, bonds, and foreign accounts. Like our wealth, their wealth should be taxed in the same manner. In fact if their top wealth were taxed that alone could end all the rest of us having to pay a tax on our houses and cars. Plus it would never produce a hardship on those paying it. If you have $48 billion you could pay a billion a yr and never miss it. AOC's and Bernie's wealth tax plans could bring relief to the nation while still funding our governmental operations. Only the very greedy stand against it.

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:03 PM

2. Great rant

Another purely Conservative Utopia would be Somalia, it's a dream for them, no regulations for the environment or labor. No rules or taxes. Guns everywhere.

In Russia, something like 112 families control over 90% of the wealth. It's crazy, engineers in Russia might make like $8 an hour. And here's the kicker, the state run propaganda machine is so powerful there that they think they have it good.

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:04 PM

3. Righteous Rant! NT

 

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:04 PM

4. Indeed, an awesome rant. I love the blurb about wealth taxes and that we need on the ...

wealthiest in this country. Your property tax analogy is a very good example to use.

Our cars are taxed the same way here in MO, it's called a personal property tax, and it's a fixed rate too, like your 2% example. I don't know about where you are at, but we have these two tiers of taxes in MO, just for owning property. As you say, a 'wealth' tax.

Take care!

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Response to SWBTATTReg (Reply #4)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:47 PM

21. Spot on

In North Carolina, our home is taxed, our property is taxed, our vehicle is taxed, any farm equipment, and you list your damn dogs. I have a 25 year old 14 foot little Jon boat with a fifteen horse power motor and I guarantee you I pay more taxes on that than any of two yachts or personal jets every billionaire has.
We have already seen that trump paid zero taxes and bragged about it. So, how much of his taxes will built the god damned wall?

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Response to Traildogbob (Reply #21)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 09:12 PM

48. bingo

The wealthy get tax breaks and loopholes. We get to pay full tax rates on everything we own.

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:05 PM

5. K/R

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:17 PM

6. I have been using that analogy as well

but not expressing it as nearly as well as you have.

Thank you.

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:17 PM

7. K&R for some truth

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:24 PM

8. WOW! Great post

wish you could be interviewed on TV so this message could get out there. Send it to media? You really nailed it.

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:25 PM

9. Well done! send this to the papers as an oped, more people need to read it

 

And thank you for explaining this perfect:

"And while we're at it, will you billionaires STFU about Venezuala being an example of a 'socialist country?' It's not. It's an example of a kleptocracy that CALLS itself a socialist country."

Well done.


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Response to Perseus (Reply #9)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:33 PM

14. Thanks! It's amazing, isn't it? They spout this fake analogy of a 'socialist' country every day

...and none of the so-called journalists call them on their bullshit. Mainly because they, themselves, are equally brainwashed.

So, if you believe that Venezuala is a 'socialist' country, you must also believe that North Korea is a DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC, because it says so in the name, right?

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Reply #14)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:56 PM

22. It's a Socialist country about as much as Nazi Germany was Socialist

After all, it was the National Socialist Party, right?. The only thing they "Socialized" was the property/wealth/freedom of oppressed minorities.

Any of the talking heads would push back on the Nazi claim, why is it so hard to call BS on Venezuela?

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Response to bigbrother05 (Reply #22)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 05:05 PM

25. Sadly, the talking heads DON'T push back on the Nazi claim. Not on Fox, anyway.

Although, admittedly, that network has nothing to do with journalism.

But I encounter morons every day on the internet who claim Nazi Germany was an example of a 'socialist' country because it had the word socialist in the party name. However, if you combine extreme nationalism with racism and xenophobia, and combine it with religion and militarism, you've got classic Fascism, not Socialism.

And, from the other side, if you combine all those things with state-control of the economy, you've got Communism.

The one thing both Fascists/Nazis and Communists have always had in common is a visceral hatred for liberal, social democrats. Liberal intellectuals who support democratic socialism (or even Fabian socialism) are usually the first ones they come after, because they're not perceived to be 'patriotic' enough.

Those people are usually surprised when I point them to Mao's essay on fighting against 'liberalism.'

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Response to bigbrother05 (Reply #22)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 05:44 PM

36. The socialist label is only dragged out by those distorting the truth.

Their purpose is to maintain the status quo because it benefits them to do so and most people don’t have a clue about what socialism is as an economic system, so they do not provide a counterargument. We need to call such labels what they are—distortion and utter nonsense.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 02:35 PM

71. I second this. Send this on!

Please send this on as an oped. You're an excellent writer!

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:27 PM

10. Love it

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:27 PM

11. A socialist government closer to home . . . the military.

 

We grew up in the military. The wages are all fixed. There is government supplied healthcare. Total socialism. And people who grew up in the military think it was a great life.

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Response to pdsimdars (Reply #11)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:30 PM

13. Also, the military is very close to being a meritocracy.

It's not terribly democratic, but it does have those other things going for it. Subsidized base housing, a non-profit PX where you buy essentials, universal healthcare, and a merit-based promotion system.

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Response to pdsimdars (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:12 AM

57. You also cannot speak freely.

 

There are limits on who you can criticize publicly, and what you can say about them. You cannot get tatoos on certain parts of your body. You are even told what to wear. Changing jobs is next to impossible, and you have very littl say in where you live.

Don't get me wrong. My father was a career Air Force officer, I served as a whitehat in the Navy, and I loved every bit of it, but utopia it is not and it is by no means everyone's cup of tea.

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:29 PM

12. Good post.

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:37 PM

15. fANTASTIC!

Truer words were never spoken. thank you!

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:37 PM

16. One of the BEST POSTS EVER!

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:43 PM

18. OMG !! That is the best thing ANYBODY has wriotten on the ole DUer in years !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shit, man, how did you do that >>

make an OP every other day !!!!

send to CNN
MSNBC
'FOX, yeah Fox,
NBC CBS ABC XYX NY tines, WaPo LA Timnes, Boston Globe BALT SUN,,


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Response to pangaia (Reply #18)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 06:15 PM

39. MSNBCNNBCBSABCFOX ...

It's only 1 station!

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Response to aggiesal (Reply #39)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 06:39 PM

42. LOL

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:46 PM

19. +1000

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:47 PM

20. Capital gains is more like 35 1/2% in CA (including Federal tax) for high incomes

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Response to BSdetect (Reply #20)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 05:10 PM

28. I'm not familiar with California (other than the fact that it's a fantastic State), but I checked

but I checked that. I see that the State capital gains tax is either 0%, 15%, or 20%, depending on income. That makes perfect sense to me as a true progressive capital gains tax. It encourages low income people to invest, and recognizes that wealth generates wealth (the 'snowball rolling down hill' analogy), and that higher incomes are taxed more. It recognizes that investment is a good thing, but also distributes the tax burden in a better way.

If I had my way, small businesses, with less than 5 employees wouldn't pay corporate taxes, but gigantic, multinational corporations would pay more corporate taxes. That would encourage wealthy plutocrats to invest more in small businesses, and encourage more start up companies, which are the grass-roots innovators. They generate both wealth and innovation.


(PS-in either case, it doesn't seem to have stopped the Californian economy dead in it's tracks. The Californian economy is a great model for others.)

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Reply #28)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 05:35 PM

35. Where have you been? or rather, where have I been ???







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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 04:59 PM

23. Excellent rant!!

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 05:03 PM

24. Let me be another one weighing in on how awesome your rant is.

Democrats need to say this over and over and over again until people get it. We need to own this narrative.

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 05:05 PM

26. Excellent rant!

Thank you!

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 05:07 PM

27. K&R K&R

and bookmarked

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 05:18 PM

29. Great and pertinent rant!

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 05:23 PM

30. Excellent

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 05:24 PM

31. Thom Hartmann talked about this property tax issue on his radio show today, too

Thanks for illustrating Alaska as an example of democratic socialism. And Russia as a capitalistic country, too. Spot on, TrollBuster9090!!!

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 05:27 PM

32. Another comparison is homestead exemption

While more expensive homes incur higher property taxes, modest homes have their lesser value set off by homestead exemption. In Florida, where I live, a $25,000 exemption is applied to the first $50,000 of your property's assessed value if your property is your permanent residence and you owned the property on January 1 of the tax year. This exemption applies to all taxes, including school district taxes. The median home value in Florida is $231,000.

Today, if you want to buy a home in Florida, the average sales price is $200,000 according to realtor.com. But home prices vary greatly by county. According to zillow.com, the median sales price in Monroe County is $409,000, while the median sales price in Hardee County is just $50,000.
https://smartasset.com/mortgage/the-cost-of-living-in-florida


So in some counties many of the homeowners pay much less tax than others.

This is a way to look at only assessing ultra wealthy taxation that people with fewer assets have to pay.

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 05:32 PM

33. And that's why 0.05 percenters should not be even considered for President.

Period. End of story. They cannot in any way, shape or fashion relate to the people they govern and should be disqualified immediatly. I know there's no constitutional basis for that....but there should be.

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 05:33 PM

34. Excellent! Copying.

Will use that with GOPers.

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 05:46 PM

37. well said. nt

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 05:46 PM

38. Great post, but I think I'm misunderstanding something.

You said that you pay 2% property tax on your house....and that that amount is about 20% of your net income. I'm assuming that when you say you pay 2% property tax on your house, you mean that you pay 2% of it's taxed value.

Unless I'm mistaken, that means:

If your house is worth $100,000, you are paying $2000 in property taxes on it, and your net income is $10,000/year.

If your house is worth $200,000 you are paying $4,000 in property taxes on it, and your net income is $20,000/year.

If your house is worth $500,000 you are paying $10,000 in property taxes, and your net income is $50,000/ year.

That just doesn't seem right.

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 06:27 PM

40. This post is fantastic

 

Four stars!

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 06:27 PM

41. K & R highly!

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 06:41 PM

43. K&R for visibility. nt

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 07:01 PM

44. Good Point and

Most people do not own their house outright so they are effectively paying a higher percentage on their equity in their house.
For example, If I pay $4000 per year on the $200,000 assessed value of my home but the mortgage I owe to the bank is $150,000, I am really paying 8% per year on the $50,000 equity (or wealth) I have in my house.

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 07:16 PM

45. I'm aghast at this 2% tax on residential real estate,

I fully understand that property taxes are needed to provide various govt. services, but 2% across the board? Here, 2% of the benchmark home price would be over $17,000. How could most people afford that???


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Response to BobTheSubgenius (Reply #45)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:23 PM

73. A person owning a $850K home can't afford $17K?

Given that there are usually homestead exemptions that knock off a considerable amount, as well as limitations in place for senior citizens, is this really an issue?

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 07:25 PM

46. That argument doesn't make sense,since Bloomberg pays property taxes, too.

He pays taxes on all his properties...yachts, houses, whatever.

So the argument is that some want a progressive property tax, sort of.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #46)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 08:42 PM

47. Look at the big picture

He pays a lower % of taxes on his wealth than many lower and middle class homeowners do.

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Response to buzzroller (Reply #47)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 09:15 PM

49. Well,no. That's not true...I think.

The percentage for property taxes is the same. The rate doesn't decrease the higher the appraised value. In fact, you don't get a homestead exemption if your income is over a certain amount. And there are no exemptions for other than the main residence.

So what I'm saying is...the proposal is that the property tax (which is, say 2% for middle class on a $250,000 house, should be maybe 10% on a $5,000,000 house)?

My understanding is that the proposition is based on property...not cash. Or maybe it includes inherited cash? That's hard to separate, since the heir takes the cash and maybe does things with it, like invest it, buy a house (which is already being taxed at 10%)?

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #49)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 09:48 PM

50. A wealth tax would be a tax on all assets - cash and investments

For most people, their home is their biggest asset, so they are paying a de facto wealth tax on large part of their wealth. Bloomberg's biggest asset is probably stock in his company. It never gets taxed until he sells, then he pays income tax at a reduced rate. If he never sells, it continues to appreciate without ever getting taxed.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #50)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 10:42 AM

63. He pays taxes on his ownership of the business....

which includes the stock. That would fall under his business income taxes. He invested a lot of money in the first place, plus there are expenses & other deductions, and revenue.

Businesses don't pay taxes on the value of a business, except to the extent that revenue and costs are taken into account on net income of the business for the year.

So stock isn't an inherited property. If you tax it, you have to take out his COST in creating it, in the first place. What takes that into account is his cost basis, which is calculated when he sells. Not sure how it works for his business taxes every year.

Business officers/owners who are granted additional stock annually (bonuses or whatever), have to pay tax on that. For Bloomberg, his initial stock wasn't given to him. He created it. So he didn't GAIN...he got what he created. This is very complicated.

There is talk on taxing capital gains, stocks, etc. Many middle class people own these things. I do. I am retired and started a retirement account years ago, and also a small taxable account. I have stocks in both. A capital gains tax would hit ME, and I'm far from wealthy. A tax on stocks would hit ME, and I'm not even close to being wealthy. I just read some investing books years ago and put some of my savings into stock investments. If that is taxed more, people won't do that, which will lower the income of seniors AND lessen the money available to businesses (buying a stock = loaning capital to the company), which will affect businesses, which would affect the economy (unlike trickle down economics).

I already pay taxes on my dividends, unless qualified. If qualified, the dividend still is including in determining my income for tax rate purposes. I already pay a tax on short term capital gains that is more than my regular tax rate.

People make assumptions that only wealthy people have stocks, capital gains, and such. That's simply not true. I'm just an average working woman who worked for decades as a paralegal, making little in the beginning to merely a decent salary at the end. I sacrificed in order to save for my senior years. I've never been on a vacation in my adult life, never bought the latest electronics, never bought a smartphone. All so I could save that money and invest it for my retirement. IF there are taxes on these things, it should be clear that it's only on the wealthy.

The tricky thing is...how do you determine how wealthy a person is? It's tricky. It's not like income. It's value, which changes year to year.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #63)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 10:53 AM

64. It's not complicated at all

You pay taxes in the assessed value of your house. It doesn't matter how you got it, what you paid for it, or how much money you put into it. A wealth tax works the same way, except it would count all your assets.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #64)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 11:03 AM

66. It is complicated.

Stock isn't like a house. The value changes daily. The wealthy are already taxed when selling their stock.

So I'm not sure how stock being included as an add'l tax works. Since it already is taxed, and cost basis pulled out.

And owning stock, when you are the creator of it, is different from one who bought it, like an average investor. He CREATED it. What is that worth? Who knows? He didn't buy it. It was essentially worth ZERO when he got the initial stock.

That is distinguishable from officers who get stock as bonuses. There is a value of that stock on that date they receive it. It is INCOME. (BTW, industry workers also receive stock. My brother did, when he worked at Conoco.)

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #66)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 11:29 AM

67. Really it is that simple. In fact it's accounting 101.

Stocks can be valued as of the close of the market on Dec. 31. Businesses can valued bashed on cash flow analysis. Non-income generating assets can be valued at replacement value (as insurance companies do), or by comparing to comparable sales (as houses are valued). If you have an asset, it can valued as of a certain date. Any accountant can do it. I can do it based on a single accounting class.

The Quran imposes a wealth tax of 2.5%, so it's got a 1500 year history. Saudi Arabia still has this tax, probably other Muslim countries too. If billionaires here make a fuss about it, their friends in Saudi Arabia will laugh at their stupid arguments against it, even if they sympathize with their desire not to pay.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #67)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 11:36 AM

68. Oh, pleeez. Who is going to do all that valuing? The college grad IRS agent?

With all that exra time he has on his hands?

A tax on stocks that one creates is unfair, IMO. It is not like a stock that someone GIVES you in payment of your work for the company.

But for the creator, the business would not exist, or the stock. There is no way to value that. The increase in its value is because of the work done by the owner. It's not like buying a stock that then increases in value. If I own a stock I bought, I had nothing to do with increasing or decreasing its value.

I think some people don't understand how business works. And we certainly don't want to follow the Middle East as regards to anything.

What will happen is what has happened in a smaller way, currently: They'll start their business in another country and do what they can not to pay the tax. Like they do in Great Britain...the mega wealthy own their biggest homes outside of the country, and run their businesses from out of the country.

What they can also do is lessen their philanthropy. I read that Bloomberg gave $5 Billion to the gun control effort. He could simply pay his tax bill out of that, lessening the philanthropy but keeping his costs the same.

I'm okay with a wealth tax, but it IS complicated. Maybe a tax on INHERITED property for someone whose income is over a certain amount. Income is easier to determine than wealth.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #68)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 12:08 PM

69. We already have an inheritance tax

Arguing that something is "unfair" is completely different from arguing that we aren't asking accountants to do anything they aren't doing right now, or that you can't do yourself with accounting software.

But I am unsympathetic to arguments from billionaires about "unfairness." They got more than their fair share of life's goodies. If his wealth goes from $40 billion to "only"
30 billion I'm really not that concerned. I'd rather that money give $10,000 to 1 million destitute people, who will immediately spend it on necessities and it will end up back in his pocket anyway.

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 10:06 PM

51. When I first did tax returns in the early 80's in Ohio there was a personal property tax.

 

I don't remember the highest income tax marginal rate but I think it was over 70,000

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 10:07 PM

52. That was fantastic.

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 10:26 PM

53. I paid mine today.

I love the idea of a wealth tax,

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2019, 11:09 PM

54. Exactly!

For the great majority of us, our wealth (such as it is) is tied-up in our homes. Why should the wealthy avoid paying taxes on their wealth because it is in the form of stocks, bonds, fine art, diamonds, etc.?

This idea is not radical. It's only common sense.

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 01:41 AM

55. Bookmarked!

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 01:59 AM

56. "... in fact it eats up about 20% of my net income..."

 

OK, so doing the math that means that either you're on Social Security or working for Walmart, which would entitle you to food stamps and/or other forms of gov't assistance (i.e., secondary support for The Walmart Co.). Thank God you "crossed the finish line" to achieve a home, which 90+% of Gen X-ers NEVER realistically hope to achieve in their lifetimes.

God Bless America, or at least what it used to be in your lifetime.

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:13 AM

58. It was the state and local governments taxing your wealth.

 

Not the federal government. The constitution does not apply to states and cities in the same way that it does to the federal government.

I don't know if a wealth tax is constitutional or not, but citing a state tax as precedent is not a valid argument.

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 04:41 AM

59. Great rant, except for the last three paragraphs.

The Scandinavian countries are not "democratic socialist" countries. As they will tell you, they are free market democracies with strong safety nets. Our safety nets are so barren that their safety net looks like socialism. It's not. And Russia is not a capitalist free market economy. Russia is a kleptocracy like Venezuela.

But you are absolutely right about property tax being a wealth tax and you make a powerful argument as to why there should be a wealth tax. As usual, the US middle class gets hit hardest with that tax, like we are with income taxes and sales taxes. We used to have a progressive tax system, but no more.

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 05:15 AM

60. a poignant post, as I sit here trying to figure out how the hell I'm going to pay property tax

this year.

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 08:10 AM

61. This is a great post

Rec

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 10:24 AM

62. This is the best thing that ever read....maybe ever!!!!!,

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 10:54 AM

65. Good points.

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 01:21 PM

70. And every year when I renew my car registration,

in addition to the actual registration fee, I pay a Property Tax of several hundred dollars based on the current value of the car. When I had an RV, I paid the same tax on it.Many states have this, but do not make clear that it’s a tax, preferring to hide it under the cloak of “registration”. Many people have no idea that they’re already paying a wealth tax.

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Response to marybourg (Reply #70)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:37 PM

75. just change TAX to...fees/registration

and magically, pols can brag about how they "cut" taxes

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:32 PM

74. I live on SS alone, and my prop taxes are 4K a year

Luckily I have a very low mortgage payment..

For 33 years in So Cal we had Prop 13, so our taxes were kept low, but WA has only escalating prop taxes ( no income tax)...

This is a huge burden for fixed income oldsters like me.

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:49 PM

76. Well said....

 

...I kept looking for a link thinking this was published somewhere as an editorial. It should be.

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 05:01 PM

77. if you have a mortgage you are paying on the part the bank still owns also

that makes it a very high percentage in the early years when your payment is mostly interest
rich people should pay on their other wealth also
stock traders should pay a fee one every stock they trade
we should raise the limit for Social Security
along with a 75% bracket
the rich are getting off to easy it is hurting our country
there should be no national debt, health care for all and free schooling
this how we pay for it

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Response to TrollBuster9090 (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 05:20 PM

78. I'm all for taxing the rich into oblivion.

 

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