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Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:05 PM

Bernie: 'My Opponents' Want Black, White, Gay, Latino or Women Candidates 'Regardless...

Bernie: ‘My Opponents’ Want Black, White, Gay, Latino or Women Candidates ‘Regardless of What They Stand For’

by Tommy Christopher | Jan 24th, 2019, 3:55 pm

-snip-


In a lengthy profile for GQ Magazine, Sanders once again railed against what he calls “identity politics,” telling the magazine that he believes his opponents care only about fielding candidates based on race, gender, or sexuality:

In a Democratic Party that is increasingly deriving its energy—not to mention its votes—from minorities and women, Sanders remains a critic of identity politics and a firm believer that issues of race, while important, are not as salient and determinative as those of class. “There are people who are very big into diversity but whose views end up being not particularly sympathetic to working people, whether they’re white or black or Latino,” he said. “My main belief is that we need to bring together a coalition of people—of black and white and Latino and Asian-American and Native-American—around a progressive agenda which is prepared to take on an extraordinarily powerful ruling class in this country. That is my view. Many of my opponents do not hold that view, and they think that all that we need is people who are candidates who are black or white, who are black or Latino or woman or gay, regardless of what they stand for, that the end result is diversity.” He hastened to add that “diversity is enormously important,” but there was a bigger goal: “to change society and create an economy and a government that work for all people.”


Fact Check: The only arguable “opponent” of Sanders who has said anything like this is Stormy Daniels attorney Michael Avenatti, who told Time Magazine that the 2020 Democratic nominee “better be a white male” because “When you have a white male making the arguments, they carry more weight.”

Sanders has a long history of dismissing the concerns of women and minorities, obsessing over white voters, as well as seeming to excuse racism.

After the 2016 election, Sanders hit a similar theme when he told a crowd of supporters “It’s not good enough for somebody to say ‘hey I’m a Latina vote for me’ that is not good enough,” and went on to add “It is not good enough for somebody to say, ‘I’m a woman, vote for me.'”

more:
https://www.mediaite.com/online/bernie-my-opponents-want-black-white-gay-latino-or-women-candidates-regardless-of-what-they-stand-for/

The link to the GQ interview is in the first sentence of the article, above

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Reply Bernie: 'My Opponents' Want Black, White, Gay, Latino or Women Candidates 'Regardless... (Original post)
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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:07 PM

1. I wish I could... ...cough cough....but I cant.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:52 PM

41. I'm self-editing madly

But you should hear me scream!

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:55 PM

46. The more he opens his mouth, the less you need to.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:05 PM

53. I'll say it for you...foot in mouth disease.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:20 PM

2. .

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:20 PM

3. K&R

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:23 PM

4. Huh.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:29 PM

5. tone deaf

he just doesn't get it. He's not going to win the nomination if he cannot inspire minority voters and women to come vote for him, and this ain't the way to do it. He doesn't know how to work with others or even frame his message in a way that he apparently doesn't view as some sort of impermissible compromise.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:05 PM

190. He's not a Democrat.

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Response to we can do it (Reply #190)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 08:29 PM

232. This. n/t

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:30 PM

6. WTELF?

Yeah, good to have more proof.

Thanks Don

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Response to Cha (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:50 PM

13. wish I could answer, but all I got is ...









(From a little red acetate square included with the album -- the tracks the publisher refused to put on the LP).

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Response to Hermit-The-Prog (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:58 PM

17. Rockabilly!

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Response to Cha (Reply #17)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:05 PM

22. closest fit I could find

BS seems to be in a time warp.

Either that or, argle bargle gargle ooof.

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Response to Hermit-The-Prog (Reply #22)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:15 PM

28. It's perfect.. you're right

the "time warp" was dead on.

I don't think he has a clue what his "opponents" want..

After the 2016 election, Sanders hit a similar theme when he told a crowd of supporters “It’s not good enough for somebody to say ‘hey I’m a Latina vote for me’ that is not good enough,” and went on to add “It is not good enough for somebody to say, ‘I’m a woman, vote for me.'”

That nobody said EVER!

And, what's up with Michael Avenatti's quote?..

Fact Check: The only arguable “opponent” of Sanders who has said anything like this is Stormy Daniels attorney Michael Avenatti, who told Time Magazine that the 2020 Democratic nominee “better be a white male” because “When you have a white male making the arguments, they carry more weight.”

More complete tone deafness.

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Response to Cha (Reply #28)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:30 PM

36. Bernie, 2018: "I had no idea hundreds of thousands of Americans, particularly African-Americans,

were being held in jail for months or years, even though they've never been convicted of a crime, simply because they can't afford bail." This was LAST YEAR. "I really didn't know this was happening."

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Response to betsuni (Reply #36)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:57 PM

49. I know.. so much cluelessness.

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Response to Cha (Reply #28)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:58 PM

50. I remember when Avenatti said that

My first thought was, "Dude, you're done."

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Response to Hermit-The-Prog (Reply #50)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:18 PM

62. And, he was doing so well..

for awhile there.

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Response to Cha (Reply #28)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:54 PM

209. The implication that female candidates say, "I am a woman, that's enough to vote for me"

or "I'm a latina, that's enough to vote for me," is insulting.

And it was when he ran against a female opponent for Vermont Governor, and said it in reference to her.

He lost, but didn't seem to learn a lesson about that sort of campaigning.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #209)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 07:45 PM

226. he learned NOTHING.

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Response to Cha (Reply #226)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 08:01 PM

228. I appears that doesn't believe that he has anything to learn.

Which is sad.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:31 PM

7. Wow.

 

He really needs to buy a clue.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:34 PM

8. Wut.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:34 PM

9. Sick and tired of his point of view.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:34 PM

10. I do not understand how he would think this would be a good thing to say if he is attempting to gain

 

the Democratic nomination. Oh brother.

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Response to UniteFightBack (Reply #10)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:52 PM

14. I'm glad he did so we know

exactly what he's thinking.

And, what's with that "opponents"? Is this his declaration that he's running again?

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Response to Cha (Reply #14)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:53 PM

42. It's odd because the interview was last year before anyone declared.

Usually opponents are in the opposition party. I wonder who he's thinking of.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #42)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:13 PM

56. Thanks, I didn't see

the date. Good find!

BS is insulting the Dems with his false premise.. it's not true no matter how many times he goes there.

Bernie: ‘My Opponents’ Want Black, White, Gay, Latino or Women Candidates ‘Regardless of What They Stand For’

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Response to Cha (Reply #56)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:26 PM

67. We're all so hopelessly stupid that we can't tell qualified from unqualified candidates.

The vaginas and exciting skin colors distract us. Thanks, Bernie!

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Response to betsuni (Reply #67)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:00 PM

81. This is his biggest Insult of all.

lol.. yes we're Soooooooooo DISTRACTED!

Most of us DEMS want someone who is qualified and can beat trump. I don't care what color they are or gender.

And, he knows this.

grr

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Response to Cha (Reply #81)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:22 PM

88. Too few people recognize how condescending Bernie is.

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Response to Cha (Reply #81)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:24 PM

91. He still thinks we voted for Obama because he was the charismatic cool black guy and Hillary

because she's a woman. In his mind both of them are corrupt elitists so otherwise why would we vote for them, so I guess it makes sense if you're Bernie. But if he tries it this time... At least everyone knows exactly what's coming.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #91)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:36 PM

96. his loss.

I'lll take what President Obama and Hillary Actually Accomplished for our Country and the Planet over words any day.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #91)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 10:00 PM

235. Exactly, that's it in a nutshell.

They don't understand that most Democratic voters are center-left pragmatists who vote accordingly... the success of Clintonism wasn't a DLC conspiracy, but a realignment within the Dem party, that now gets most of its voters from diverse metropolitan areas across the country.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #67)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:23 PM

90. You made me lol!



Thank you betsuni!

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #90)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:34 PM

95. ...

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Response to betsuni (Reply #95)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:40 PM

98. ;)

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Response to betsuni (Reply #42)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:33 PM

71. People who didn't vote for Bernie are "his opponents."

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Response to yardwork (Reply #71)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:29 PM

93. That's a long time to be cranky.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #93)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:15 AM

113. He's used to it.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:36 PM

11. and people wonder why he can't make inroads with minority voters

this statement is tone deaf period.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:42 PM

12. Ugh.

Please stay in the Senate and forget whatever silly bullshit it is you're planning.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:55 PM

15. And THIS is supposed to encourage women and minorities to take another look at him?

By insulting them?

He says "many" of his opponents just want a minority or woman "regardless of what they stand for." He couldn't be more wrong. If that were the case, we'd all be supporting Ben Carson and Condeleeza Rice and Nikki Haley.

When is Bernie ever going to learn? I think the answer is never.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:56 PM

16. Everything I ever said and/or thought of him has stood the test of truth and time.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:15 PM

29. Same here.

His appeal is completely lost on me. I just see an angry person, who disrupted the convention, and ended up getting a lot of what he said he wanted - no TPP, undoing NAFTA, and, if some quotes I read not too long ago are correct, getting out of NATO or at least having a weakened NATO.

The spectacle of two angry white men inciting people at rallies in the summer of 2016 is going to stick with me for a long time.

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Response to LisaM (Reply #29)


Response to brandnewday2009 (Reply #72)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:26 AM

119. I've noticed that too.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #16)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 10:24 AM

174. Same here.

 

I have friends and family that have gotten upset over the things I called out about him. They just won't see it.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:59 PM

18. Geez, even going to public school and university in the Deep South,

I learned that legal racism and misogyny, like we had here is at its heart about economics. Even during the great migration while blacks found factory jobs they got the shittist, lowest paid work. Look at the actions recently in the GM plant in Ohio.

The southern white progressives who loved FDRs programs until they were expanded to people of color by LBJ proved that. They kept FDR from expanding them to the minority population.

That is one reason he will never win southern primaries.

I certainly do not think BS personally feels this way, but language like that above stirs up memories.

Very tone deaf. The base of the party in my state are African American females.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:00 PM

19. Things like this all but guarantee that he'll remain in the Senate!

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #19)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 04:19 AM

154. And even that is an unfortunate state of affairs.

Go AWAY, Bernie. You've done more than enough damage.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #19)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 09:10 PM

234. He should remain in the Senate.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:01 PM

20. ...

?itemid=9912230

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #20)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:23 PM

32. This is Obama's face about Kamala-Jamaica but it fits here..

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Response to Cha (Reply #32)

Sat Jan 26, 2019, 05:15 PM

257. Really, she and her non-African elitist forebearers wintered in Jamaica

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #20)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:31 PM

37. Heh.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:05 PM

21. I think he's sore because the other 2020 potential candidates have

been throwing serious shade and specifically attacking the "identity politics" frame.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:07 PM

23. I'm starting to think Sanders doesn't ... REALLY ... value diversity, Am I way off? tia

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #23)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:10 PM

24. Let's be real. He isn't all that used to it. nt

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #23)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:28 PM

34. He's the type that believes that good policy raises everyone

Rather than some people being at a disadvantage (other than economic, he believes that too).

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #34)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 03:51 AM

151. Well he's not being straight up here..

Bernie: ‘My Opponents’ Want Black, White, Gay, Latino or Women Candidates ‘Regardless of What They Stand For’

That's not true.

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Response to Cha (Reply #151)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:05 PM

192. You know what else isn't true?

You know what else isn't true? It's NOT TRUE that Democrats are "ideologically bankrupt". It's NOT TRUE that Democrats are "corrupt". It's NOT TRUE that the Democratic party is "the party of the one-percent". It's NOT TRUE that there's "no difference between Democrats and Republicans." It's NOT TRUE that Democrats are "do-nothings". It's NOT TRUE that the Democratic party "doesn't care about climate change."

It serves no good purpose for anyone to say these types of things that falsely put Democrats and the Democratic party in a negative light.

All I'm saying is that when anyone smears and denigrates the Democratic party, it only serves to divide and weaken us... and a weakened Democratic party benefits the GOP, and Trump, and Russia.

, Cha! Aloha!

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #192)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 07:41 PM

225. Mahalo, Jackie! you're absolutely

right.. All Not true.


Aloha

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #34)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:32 PM

218. so we'll just raise everyone up

and minority folks and women will have more, but still be at the bottom.

pass.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #23)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:29 PM

69. Yes

Yes you are. Bernie is not saying in any way that he is against women, blacks, latinos, etc. He is just saying what they believe in and the kinds of policies they will push for are more important. Personally all things being equal as far as a candidate pushing for progressive programs the fact that they are a minority or a woman might be a deciding factor. On the otherhand if the candidate was a very conservative Democrat I would not vote for her just because she was a woman. Bernie is not saying that their race or sex is not important he is just saying that he believes policy and what you are willing to fight for should come first.

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Response to droidamus2 (Reply #69)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:40 PM

74. +1

Well said.

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Response to Power 2 the People (Reply #74)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 04:24 AM

157. NOT ... well said, no one has the position Sanders said they have. That's a key element of a strawma

... strawman fallacy.

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Response to droidamus2 (Reply #69)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:03 PM

82. That's obvious.......

Unless of course, you have a grudge against Bernie. Hell, a good number of people here who are currently bashing the man for this statement are the same people who, two weeks ago were responding in kind to multiple posts about how "it's time for a woman goddamnit!" The irony is astounding.

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Response to Glamrock (Reply #82)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 04:12 AM

153. "..grudge against Bernie.. " strawman. BS is being called out

on his own words.. and they're not true

Bernie: ‘My Opponents’ Want Black, White, Gay, Latino or Women Candidates ‘Regardless of What They Stand For’

And, who the hell are his "opponents", anyway? The Democratic Party?

Most Dems/Democratic Base/Dem leaders want someone who is qualified and can beat trump.. and sure we got a lot of Democratic Women in Congress swept in the Blue Wave. They were the most qualified for the job.





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Response to droidamus2 (Reply #69)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 04:01 AM

152. What he's saying.. is Not true

Bernie: ‘My Opponents’ Want Black, White, Gay, Latino or Women Candidates ‘Regardless of What They Stand For’

Nobody thinks that and BS is trying to get people to believe that.

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Response to droidamus2 (Reply #69)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 04:23 AM

155. Strawman noted, Sanders proffered a fallacious argument against his "opponents" seeing NO ONE

... that he's running against takes the position he stated in the OP.

Yaws strawman defenses of Sanders is more telling than his own statements

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #155)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 11:16 PM

237. +1!

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Response to droidamus2 (Reply #69)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:01 PM

187. "He is just saying what they believe in"

 

That is not exactly accurate. He is stating what he believes they believe in. He is lumping large groups together and making claims about them as a way to lash out and stay relevant.

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Response to droidamus2 (Reply #69)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:33 PM

219. Bernie is such an awesome candidate that a poster on DU has to explain what he meant to say

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #219)

Sat Jan 26, 2019, 02:02 AM

242. Yeah.. too much of that.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #23)

Sun Jan 27, 2019, 10:17 PM

266. Sanders sees everything from his white perch in Vermont

 

with skewing prisms.

I thought he would learn in 2 years that social justice is not the same as economic justice.

But you know what they say about dogs and learning tricks.

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Response to Apollyonus (Reply #266)

Sun Jan 27, 2019, 10:47 PM

274. +1, thinking he has to turn in full tax returns so he's not going to run

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:11 PM

25. So he's back to railing against "identity politics?"

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Response to mcar (Reply #25)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:41 PM

38. more than that. railing against "identity politics" by engaging in "identity politics"

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Response to still_one (Reply #38)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:55 PM

45. It was always so

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:13 PM

26. Grandpa needs a nap.

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Response to nycbos (Reply #26)

Sun Jan 27, 2019, 10:18 PM

267. He needs more than that.

 

"Retirement" comes to mind.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:14 PM

27. Bernie go home to Vermont and RETIRE!

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:20 PM

30. wow, that's pretty fucked up right there

i guess Bernie's kind of like one of those expensivee aged cheeses - if it has what you want for a specific recipe, nothing else will do, but taken on its own it smells like mildew and/or dirty socks, and you probably don't want it in your fridge for long.

but honestly, i'd take a hunk of Limburger as president over what we have now.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:23 PM

31. Yikes...

… how can someone who had so many relatable things to say spout out this stuff? Is it an excerpt of some grander idea? In any case, he should stop complaining about how others make appeals re: diversity and tell voters how he - not others - is going to be the candidate for diversity.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:26 PM

33. I get the feeling from some people that they are not looking for the best candidate

But the candidate that checks the right boxes

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:29 PM

35. Sandewrs is correct.

After the 2016 election, Sanders hit a similar theme when he told a crowd of supporters “It’s not good enough for somebody to say ‘hey I’m a Latina vote for me’ that is not good enough,” and went on to add “It is not good enough for somebody to say, ‘I’m a woman, vote for me.'”


What matter is the positions.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #35)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:50 PM

39. and that is true, except based on the OP's implication he is insulting those who are supporting

women, minorities, etc. by assuming they don't look at the issues, they only look at the gender, color, etc. Not only is that bullshit, it is playing "identity politics" itself.





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Response to still_one (Reply #39)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:54 PM

43. Yes! And, it's not really correct because No One

said that EVER.

he's set up a false premise.

Thank You!

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Response to Cha (Reply #43)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:05 PM

54. yes, it is a strawman argument

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Response to still_one (Reply #39)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 03:58 PM

223. That is one way to interpret it.

And I understand that view even as I disagree with it.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #223)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 05:45 PM

224. Which is why when political leaders speak they need to be careful so there is no

ambiguity in what they say

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #35)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:51 PM

40. Said NO ONE EVER.

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Response to Cha (Reply #40)

Sun Jan 27, 2019, 11:34 PM

279. Exactly right, Cha. Sen. Sanders should identify exactly who has made the claims

as he stated them. I have not heard anyone say anything like that.

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Response to spooky3 (Reply #279)

Sun Jan 27, 2019, 11:57 PM

280. Yeah, why you so vague, BS? Tell us exactly

and specifically who you're trying to marginalize.. or is it everybody?!

Spooky

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Response to Cha (Reply #280)

Mon Jan 28, 2019, 12:21 AM

281. The more he talks, the clearer the picture becomes.

How are you, Cha?

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #35)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:55 PM

47. This is false on its face, none of his opponents want that. Sanders is needlessly proffering fallacy

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #47)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:59 PM

51. The gop have been repeating his frame. Thanks bern!

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Response to Kahuna7 (Reply #51)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:09 PM

55. The gop are notorious for using a similar argument to justify that undocumented people are voting

en mass, to suppress voting, when the facts don't support it

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #47)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:16 PM

57. Because of course it is.. It's false and insulting.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #47)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:22 PM

66. Well, it's not needless. Bernie needs to make this argument.

Many of us have some ideas about why Bernie feels the need to promote this blatantly false smear over and over again.

Obviously, it fills some need in Bernie. I'm trying to think what it might be....

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Response to yardwork (Reply #66)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 04:25 AM

158. +1

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #35)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:56 PM

48. Who ever said that?

Please,name one candidate for office who said that?

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #35)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:18 PM

63. Who has ever said that? It's a straw man fallacy.

I have never heard a single candidate say anything like that.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #35)

Sat Jan 26, 2019, 07:47 AM

248. Where he is incorrect is his implication that a significant # of progressives choose candidates

based on their race, rather than their positions. I didn't see any Democrats or progressives urging a vote for Nikki Haley or Ben Carson because of their race.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #248)

Sat Jan 26, 2019, 01:20 PM

250. I agree with your excellent point.

As to Sanders necessarily implying that, I disagree, but I think that he focuses on economics without realizing how race and gender based conservative politics is.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #35)

Sun Jan 27, 2019, 10:19 PM

268. ....

 

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:55 PM

44. What opponents?

Many of my opponents do not hold that view, and they think that all that we need is people who are candidates who are black or white, who are black or Latino or woman or gay, regardless of what they stand for, that the end result is diversity.”


Democrats? Or primary opponents? I didn't think he'd declared.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:02 PM

52. Unsurprising. Once an asshole, always...

...an asshole.

I'm an old white man like him, and the last thing I want in the world is for him as a Presidential candidate, and no, it's not because he's old and white.

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Response to NNadir (Reply #52)

Sun Jan 27, 2019, 10:20 PM

269. lol n/t

 

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)


Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:16 PM

59. Same old, same old. Didn't really expect him to evolve now, did you? nt

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:16 PM

60. Bernie. LOL...nt

Sid

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:17 PM

61. Deeply offensive.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:19 PM

64. Bernie just needs to stay in Senate.

I really hope he does not decide to launch an independent candidacy for president. He would just split the vote and ensure a Trump election (unless he’s in jail in which case it would be a Pence election) with no chance of actually winning. I’m so tired of spoilers and the people who think a protest vote is worth it, even knowing their candidte has no chance of winning and they would end up with the worst candidate winning.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:22 PM

65. First of all. Just ONE big "identity politics": Fox telling white ppl to hate minorities.

No democrat should be using “identity politics” except to attack the GOP



... and I like Bernie (Though not for 2020)

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:27 PM

68. His delegates booed John Lewis on the stage at our last convention.

Booed perhaps the greatest living American. Cause he was not on their team.

That told me all I needed to know.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #68)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 11:17 AM

175. I was there

My whip warned me of this stunt about 20 to 30 minutes in advance. The Clinton campaign had a good whipping infrastructure in place and knew that the sanders delegates were planning to boo Congressman John Lewis well in advance. My whip later told me that sanders was asked to stop this stunt and declined

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #175)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 11:58 AM

185. Every member of the Democratic Party needs to hear this anecdote.

I hope it gets made into campaign ads in the event he runs.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #185)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:12 PM

212. There were some really mad Clinton workers at the convention

They will be glad to show up in ads

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #185)

Sat Jan 26, 2019, 12:36 AM

238. I am a private facebook page for Clinton National delegates

There were some fun posts on that page tonight. There are some really mad Clinton types who have not forgotten and will not forgive.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #68)

Sun Jan 27, 2019, 10:23 PM

271. That was disgusting

 

Sanders NEVER called his supporters out and never punished them either. He was in it with them it seemed like.

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Response to Apollyonus (Reply #271)

Sun Jan 27, 2019, 10:26 PM

272. Yep. Check out the ongoing thread about math showing how BS could win.

I just had a BS supporter justify booing John Lewis not 5 minutes ago.

I could not believe it. My response may put me at risk. Oh well.

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Response to Apollyonus (Reply #271)

Sun Jan 27, 2019, 10:30 PM

273. And welcome to DU.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:31 PM

70. Yes of course

If we want leaders to truly represent diversity then we must not be smart enough to make sure they're also qualified.

I cannot roll my eyes enough with this guy.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:36 PM

73. To give him maximum charity I do think positions and issues are important...

But given the candidates who have already announced, I think this is a pretty blatant false dichotomy.

Maybe Bernie is stressed because Warren is running on similar positions to his, and he doesn't have any obvious advantage against her. She is younger, most likely has more goodwill from party elites, and she could be our first woman president.

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Response to D23MIURG23 (Reply #73)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:54 PM

104. Don't forget the most important. She's a member of the Democratic Party.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #104)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 04:24 AM

156. There is that.

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Response to D23MIURG23 (Reply #73)

Sat Jan 26, 2019, 05:22 PM

258. Yes, but she's a Wall Street tool

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:40 PM

75. He didn't seem to mind when the preferred identity was what he is...a white male.

I do agree that some in the Democratic Party are pushing identity politics for its sake alone. People pushing this one or that one because of the identity, without even knowing the person's specific stance on a wide variety of issues (we all assume any Dem. candidate follows the Dem. Party Platform). But I don't know who he means by opponents. The people I've heard are just people in the public...no one that Bernie would know.

I don't think this is a big issue. I hope it doesn't turn out to be.

Republicans thought Obama won because he was part Af. American. Some people in the Dem. Party thought so, too. But I don't think so. That's not why I voted for him. He won because he was, well, Obama. An exceptional, charismatic, brilliant politician who seemed very capable of being the leader of the free world. That he was half Af. American was a perk, in my view.

I still view things the same way. I'm waiting for an exceptional, charismatic, brilliant politician who seems capable of being the leader of the free world, whatever the identity of that person is. It would be great if it could be a woman or minority. I tend to believe it hasn't been before now, because of "identity" politics that said it had to be a white male. It's impossible that there was no charismatic, exceptional female politician before now who could have been elected, but for prejudice against her identity.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:42 PM

76. I may be reading this wrong, but to me this sounds like that long-standing complaint:

'This just isn't fair to us white guys.'

Perhaps that is an uncharitable take on it, but it's the first thing that popped into my mind.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:47 PM

77. Translation:

Support me unless you want engage in “identity politics”. I heard this crap during Sharice Davids’s primary.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #78)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:04 PM

84. lol

 

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Response to Post removed (Reply #78)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:06 AM

107. +1

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:51 PM

79. Old guy yelling at clouds.

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Response to MontanaMama (Reply #79)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:00 PM

80. Bernie... (heavy sigh)

...yeah, maybe he ought to think and then talk

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Response to NotHardly (Reply #80)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:51 PM

208. Or even just listen. He seems to be most at home behind a podium

declaiming, and wagging his finger.

I requires no actual interaction, reciprocity or teamwork.

I believe he feels that he is the smartest person in any room, and therefore doesn't feel any need to learn from anyone else.

Many people that agree with his ideas think that this is a strength.

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Response to NotHardly (Reply #80)

Sun Jan 27, 2019, 10:21 PM

270. Or not talk and not run .. ever again n/t

 

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:04 PM

83. In Sanders' world

 

no injustice exists except economic injustice.

He thinks that racism, homophobia, misogyny, xenophobia would all go away if everyone made a decent living.

It is a classic view of someone who is raised and has lived in completely white surroundings.

This view is anathema to the Democratic party's core beliefs and its core supporters.

He is better off not running ever again or go for intensive political rehab before he runs.

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Response to Apollyonus (Reply #83)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:04 AM

106. Your missing the largest Irony...

Racism and misogyny are based in large part on keeping an economic underclass.

Any study of the new deal makes it glaring obvious that southern whites loved government programs as long as they were for whites.

You cannot attack economic injustice without also attacking racial injustice. They are 2 peas in a pod.

He just can’t seem to understand this. But being from Vermont I am not surprised.

Grow up in Louisiana and Arkansas like I did and it is obvious.

The most disgusting thing Sessions ever let out was his reason for opposing immigration and cutting social benefits. He wanted to force blacks back into the fields doing ‘honest work’.

The reason we pay teachers and nurses shit wages is that we got used to forcing smart women into those fields and then steals their labor by denying them other professional opportunities and pay based on their abilities. And still resist paying those professions what they deserve.

They don’t exactly hide this shit.







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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #106)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:13 AM

110. Sir, my post was clear. Twisting it won't help.

 

Senator Sanders has a long way to go to becoming a real Democrat and recognize the racism, misogyny, homophobia and xenophobia.

It is not all about money.

Extremely successful African Americans, LGBTQ, women and non-white ethnic minorities are still treated as second class citizens in this country. They already have money. Some are 1 percenters -- but the social injustice is still there and it. does. not. go. away.

Blaming Southern Whites of the past is not an excuse for Northern Whites of the present. Even when said person is (wrongly) seen as a messiah by some in these parts.

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Response to Apollyonus (Reply #110)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:26 AM

120. Oh, you miss understand my meaning.

I agree with your post. But even in the north during the great migration while black Americans were given factory jobs they were paid less and given the shittiest jobs.

I readily admit that many if not most racist do not consider the economics of their beliefs. But let a black man do better than them and their racism goes into hyperdrive. That explains the reaction to President Obama. They still consider him illegitimate.

Because in their minds black men and women should never have more than any white man. Or woman.

Granted, being from the South where legally enforced racism was obviously about economics may cloud my judgment. But the largest racial massacres after Jim Crow like Tulsa, Ocoee and Rosewood were often set off because African Americans were gaining more wealth than some of their white neighbors.

Nuanced discussions like this is where communication is typed online comes up short. Were we sitting next to each other in a bar we would have no problem reaching consensus.

Have a nice evening.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #120)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:32 AM

121. No worries

 

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #120)

Sat Jan 26, 2019, 05:30 PM

259. Agreed. Born in Detroit, raised in Georgia

Jealously of black success is a major factor in racial discrimination and in the violence instigated against them

And it’s not a secret when a racist president shuts down government, he is hoping to hurt black people with good jobs who don’t vote for him.

It’s not just a Southern thing. White people in Detroit say things that Southerners would blush to say or even think.

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Response to Apollyonus (Reply #83)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 03:14 AM

145. It is a one-size-fits-all classic Marxist procrustean bed of a policy. While a raise would be nice

...or, would have been nice back in the day before retirement -- it would not have solved the essential wage disparity between "male" and "female" jobs. It would not solve gender discrimination or racial discrimination or all those issues we tried so hard to resolve with Affirmative Action.

Bernie and his ilk like to boast that they are blind to race and gender because they believe that makes them fairer than the rest of us. But at my age, I now believe it just makes them ...blind.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #145)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 07:42 AM

168. +1 Woot woot! nt

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Response to Hekate (Reply #145)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 08:17 AM

172. +1

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:13 PM

85. It's going to be a fun primary season, as always

but thankfully this time it will be very diverse with more women and minorities.

Sanders is obviously targeting the rust belt white voters who shifted to Trump. It doesn't hurt to have him out there campaigning in Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, etc. to pick off enough Trump votes to make a difference. He won't do as well in the more diverse states. I doubt he would be our nominee.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:15 PM

86. So Democrats are his "enemies" now?

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #86)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:09 PM

197. Not just now.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:18 PM

87. Oh no...Sanders takes a position that he's never hidden, that actual policies matter...that issues

 

of class cannot be ignored in favor of promoting the same old shit underneath diverse packaging, and we are supposed to take umbrage? The very Sanders who is actually liked most by people of color and women and least among all demographics, by white men, is suddenly being revealed here when he says what he's already said numerous times in the past, as what might I ask? and to who?

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Response to JCanete (Reply #87)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:24 PM

92. If you don't see how deeply insulting Bernie's assumption is, then you never will.

I recognize that we all process things in our own way. Trust me when I tell you that the vast majority of women and people of color are deeply offended by Bernie's blithe assumption that we're voting for people just because they're women or people of color.

It's offensive.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #92)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:42 PM

99. Well some people don't think we can tell the difference.

You know they have to bring up Susan Collins, Clarence Thomas and Herman Caine....

Not that anyone right here in this thread has ever done so or anything.



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Response to yardwork (Reply #92)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:49 PM

102. I don't trust you on that. The numbers don't bear it out. I trust that you believe it. nt

 

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Response to JCanete (Reply #102)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 03:48 AM

150. I trust her.. she knows what she's talking about.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #102)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 11:54 AM

182. Sort of like when a polician you like gets fact checked....

and you believe them even when the numbers don't bear it out?

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Response to JCanete (Reply #87)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:32 PM

94. "promoting the same old shit underneath diverse packaging"

What do you mean and who is doing it?

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Response to betsuni (Reply #94)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:44 PM

101. Anything and anyone who isn't Bernie.

At least that is my take.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #87)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:53 PM

103. You got one thing right. He's never hidden his position on race and gender.

Plenty of us were pointing it out in 2016.

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Response to kcr (Reply #103)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:59 PM

105. pointing what out exactly? nt

 

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Response to JCanete (Reply #105)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 03:06 AM

144. His words.

An example is in the OP: "It's not enough for somebody to say, 'Hey, I'm a Latina, vote for me'" and "It is not good enough for somebody to say 'I'm a woman, vote for me.'"

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Response to JCanete (Reply #87)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:33 AM

122. How can you possibly think that Sanders "is actually liked most by people of color and women?"

On what do you base that conclusion? The only general election evidence we have and he has is in a state that has less than 5% people of color, statistically impossible to draw a conclusion on how he is "liked" by people of color, much less "most".

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Response to George II (Reply #122)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:49 AM

124. https://www.vox.com/2018/12/19/18148681/joe-biden-bernie-sanders-approval-rating. That's one.

 

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Response to JCanete (Reply #124)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:59 AM

127. From the article: "These early polling results are of limited ultimate relevance"

Do you have a poll that has ultimate relevance?

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Response to George II (Reply #127)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:05 AM

129. Do you? nt

 

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Response to JCanete (Reply #129)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:12 AM

130. No, I'm not the one making the claim, you are.

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Response to George II (Reply #130)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:32 AM

135. oh fuck George...please review the context of my post and then reply about who's making what claims.

 


I at least, have some evidence to point to that contradicts the other claim, which, apparently, has no such evidence to back it up.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #135)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 10:21 AM

173. You made a statement, I disputed it, showing a disclaimer in YOUR article, asking...

....if you have a poll with more relevance. So then YOU ask ME if I have one? Of course I don't have one, why would I?

Yes, you're right JCanete, context is important.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #135)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 11:59 AM

186. That fallacy is called "prove a negative."


Description: Demanding that one proves the non-existence of something in place of providing adequate evidence for the existence of that something. Although it may be possible to prove non-existence in special situations, such as showing that a container does not contain certain items, one cannot prove universal or absolute non-existence. The proof of existence must come from those who make the claims.

Example #1:

God exists. Until you can prove otherwise, I will continue to believe that he does.


https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/145/Proving-Non-Existence

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Response to JCanete (Reply #129)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 03:44 AM

149. I'll take that as a NO.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #87)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:23 AM

133. BS is falsely accusing Dems of "want"ing something that's entirely untrue

Bernie: ‘My Opponents’ Want Black, White, Gay, Latino or Women Candidates ‘Regardless of What They Stand For’

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Response to Cha (Reply #133)

Sat Jan 26, 2019, 06:03 PM

261. I read it to mean "only Bernie stands for the correct things"

and good Democrats like Kamala Harris, Elizabeth Warren and Joe Biden et al don't.

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Response to comradebillyboy (Reply #261)

Sat Jan 26, 2019, 06:06 PM

262. Which of course is

fantasy.

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Response to Cha (Reply #262)

Sat Jan 26, 2019, 06:25 PM

263. Indeed it is.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #87)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 11:41 AM

178. "same old shit underneath diverse packaging"

That's what diversity is?

Just packaging for "the same old shit?"

I know that he only hired POC for his Senate staff after it was pointed in the media, but I think he certainly has a much greater respect for diversity than your statement indicates you do.

Even considering he didn't think that the Vermont NAACP merited attendance at his Gathering.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:23 PM

89. Maybe we should all go in together

and buy Bernie a nice shovel.

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Response to MontanaMama (Reply #89)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:39 PM

97. Oh Ouch, Burn!

A bigger nicer one.

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Response to Cha (Reply #97)

Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:42 PM

100. Lol!!

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Response to MontanaMama (Reply #89)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:13 AM

131. ..



Perhaps a particular style of shovel normally used in the garden?

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Response to MontanaMama (Reply #89)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 04:30 AM

159. LOL! I'm in!

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:06 AM

108. WHY are his "opponents" ALWAYS DEMOCRATS and never the GOP?!

Go home, Bernie. Just go back to white Vermont where a black female elected official was hounded from office by threats of violence and death, and ask her about "identity politics." And try to listen this time.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #108)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 11:45 AM

180. Indeed. Vermont isn't exactly a hotbed of diversity.

Sanders has never had to address it in order to get elected there.

If he had tried to run for office in a large diverse constituency that more closely resembles the US population, I think his political career may have turned out differently, and been much shorter.

And it's clear he didn't think that the Vermont NAACP merited any place at his Gathering.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:12 AM

109. I think Bernie has lost it.

Time for the retirement home.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:14 AM

111. Talk like this is what made his delegates feel OK booing John Lewis at our last convention

Yeah, ok. I keep posting this. But it is something I can’t believe more democrats don’t remember.

So it is kind of an obsession of mine. Maybe because I am still royally pissed of that one of the greatest Americans living and a Civil Rights Icon who got his head bashed in on Edmond Pettus bridge marching with MLK got booed at a Democratic convention.

And Bernie knew it was going to happen and sat there grinning like the cat that ate the canary while it happened. We all saw it.

Some things are unforgivable.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #111)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:21 AM

116. +1000

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #111)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:51 AM

125. Yes. Unforgivable.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #111)


Response to Post removed (Reply #128)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:31 AM

134. When he said that tonight they would be nominating a woman, they yelled "She stole it" at Lewis.




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Response to betsuni (Reply #134)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:33 AM

137. okay, meaning what to you? nt

 

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Response to JCanete (Reply #137)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:37 AM

138. That they are very rude and noisy conspiracy theory nuts.

She stole it. Lock her up. Build that wall. Drain the Swamp.

I guess three word slogans really work on some people.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #138)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 02:18 AM

139. er...yeah, that's a whole lot of lumping together you've got going on there. I bet I could

 


find a shit load of chanted slogans that given your sympathies(and mine mind) you'd be fine with.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #139)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 02:31 AM

140. Conspiracy theories about John Lewis lying and Hillary stealing elections are nutty.

Yes, We Can. Stronger Together. Those are nice. It's the nutty ones designed to get people to think of Democrats as corrupt liars that I do not care for.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #139)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 02:41 AM

141. when you agree on shit like Hillary Stealing the election and booing John Lewis that pretty much

shows you are part of the same shitty bunch .

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Response to JI7 (Reply #141)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 03:26 AM

147. +1!

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Response to JI7 (Reply #141)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:13 PM

213. agreed

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Response to JCanete (Reply #139)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 03:25 AM

146. #Whataboutism!! Not Working.

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Response to Cha (Reply #146)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 04:34 AM

161. DEFINITELY not working.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #139)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 11:33 AM

176. Congressman John Lewis is a national treasure

I was shocked when I got the text from my whip about the planned booing of Congressman John Lewis by the sanders delegates. Again, my whip warned me of this stunt 20 to 30 minutes in advance. In the real world, campaigns carefully vet their delegates. I know that I was vetted and I was on a committee that vetted other Clinton delegates. The reasons for this is that a candidate's delegates represents the candidate and bad conduct by such delegates will hurt the candidate and the campaign.

This was a planned stunt by the sanders delegates. The Clinton campaign knew about this stunt in time to send warning to her delegates. My whip told me that sanders was asked to stop this stunt and declined.

I am proud to have met Congressman John Lewis four times and to have pleasure of Congressman Lewis tell his "preaching to chickens" story four times. I truly admire Congressman Lewis and will not forget what happened at the National Convention

If sanders runs, this incident will be used in some ads.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #139)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:03 PM

188. "that's a whole lot of lumping together you've got going on there."

 

Sanders statement is based on exactly that. His need to lump people together to the point he loses any meaning.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #137)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 02:53 AM

142. Edited

The post was removed and the person is locked out of the thread.

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Response to herding cats (Reply #142)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 08:31 PM

233. Thanks for that.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #111)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:18 AM

132. Yes, it is absolutely unforivable.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #111)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 04:33 AM

160. That was a colossal disgrace. A genuine sin. SHAME on them.

One does NOT boo a towering figure like John Lewis. That disgusting episode told me all I needed to know about them.

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Response to calimary (Reply #160)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 06:24 AM

165. +1

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:15 AM

112. Senator Sanders, did it ever dawn on you that the VOTERS want "yadda yadda"....

....not your opponents? After all, they're the ones that will choose our next nominee and president, not your opponents.

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Response to George II (Reply #112)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:20 AM

115. To be fair, most voters are his opponents.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #115)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:23 AM

117. Bazinga!

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Response to George II (Reply #117)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:25 AM

118. Grin.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:17 AM

114. i echo what everyone else has said in this thread. no thank you bernie.

and what you said totally barfs me out

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:38 AM

123. Stupid comment. No real Democrat thinks like that.

Bernie go home. You are not helping.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:59 AM

126. But

Can't we all be concerned about income inequality no matter what race you are? If he had gone all in on calling for racial justice, the critics would just say, " shut up Bernie, you don't know what its like to be black" Just admit that he can't do anything to please you - not specifically talking to the op.

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Response to TheFarseer (Reply #126)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:32 AM

136. BS is falsely accusing Dems of "want"ing something that's entirely untrue

Bernie: ‘My Opponents’ Want Black, White, Gay, Latino or Women Candidates ‘Regardless of What They Stand For’

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 02:54 AM

143. Yep. The blind spot is still there blind as ever.

I liked Bernie's ideas about income and wealth disparity. I liked his populist brand of speech. I voted for him in the primary, but when I was listening to Mark Thompson, Joe Madison, and others I kept hearing how he would not go on their shows during the primary. Not even Nina Turner would go on. They just didn't even respond to requests to book him. Then I saw what he said about "identity politics" and it confirmed my concerns. He thinks that "diversity is enormously important" but he doesn't even understand why or he doesn't care. He is so narrowly focused, thinking that if we just increase income equality, that magically, people of color are going to be seen as equal.

He doesn't understand that women and people of color have been deliberately excluded from access to economic opportunity, even by the most progressive politicians, FDR, JFK, and others. He doesn't realize that President Obama could not and would not be a President for Black people because if he had shown any kind of preference or attention, he would likely have been killed. President Obama was already demonized for even trying to draw attention to disparate treatment of professor Gates when he was accosted by police in his own home, or when he pointed out similarities between Trayvon Martin and his own children, when Martin was killed by the racist George Zimmerman. Race is something that Bernie Sanders has never really had to consider, even when he was involved in the civil rights and student protests of the 60's. He could protest, then walk away and live his life while his Black colleagues in the struggle never could walk away because you cannot walk away from your Black or Brown skin.

That skin is who people see you for and they decide your worth based on that. They deny you home loans that you are qualified for, they turn down your application because your name is "too Black" sounding while they accept the EXACT same application for a White sounding name. Sanders doesn't see race because it is his privilege not to. He sees economic injustice but doesn't understand that economic injustice is inseparably tied to racial and gender inequality. You cannot address economic injustice without accepting that there is "Identity Politics" and that the White identity is the identity that matters most, and that needs to change, not "the system". The system is based on White norms and exclusionary to others. If you change the tax rates, that isn't going to stop redlining. It isn't going to stop people from subconsciously discriminating against Black and Brown job applicants, from passing women up on the STEM fields because of centuries of bias. We are SOCIAL animals not just economic animals. Our behavior is not based on money and acquiring wealth, it is based on our identity, on who we are, who we associate with, who shares our values, culture, religion, music, etc... Economics is what we think about because we have to eat and we have to buy things that make our lives livable and somewhat comfortable. Sanders needs to understand that ALL politics is IDENTITY politics, it really just depends on which identity is valuable and like I said, all of this time in America, the White identity has been the most important. White identity politics is just called politics, just like White history is just called History.

People of color aren't voting for people based solely on their gender or racial background. That view is patronizing and condescending. I would NEVER in a million years vote for Susana Martinez for any post, nor Alberto Gonzales. They are both Mexican-Americans like me, but their views are antithetical to mine. Sanders' statement appears to be saying that my political views are so shallow that I would vote solely based on what the candidate looked like. When Kamala Harris ran against Loretta Sanchez for US Senate, I did not vote for "the Latina" I voted for the best candidate, who's policies aligned with my own and who I saw would best represent California to the Nation. To think that I "vote for the Latina" is just an example of how many White people view people of color or how men view women. "You just support Hillary because she's a woman." No fuckhead, I support Hillary Clinton because she is smart, accomplished, was one of the most active first ladies, was Secretary of State and one of the most singularly qualified candidates. I will say this, given equal qualifications and similar qualities, I would support a candidate who shared my experiences and who looked like me, because I know that they would understand my needs. In the US for almost 2 centuries we, as people of color, and especially as women, have had to hope that older rich, White men could understand our experience or at least be sympathetic enough to it. At this point I do not trust that Sanders has the slightest idea about the real experiences of women or people of color. I do not trust him to fight for gender or racial equality and I think that he would through women, minorities, and immigrants under the bus in search of "class consciousness". I will not support him in the primary but if by some chance he happens to run for and win the Democratic nomination I will hold my nose and vote for him as the alternative to ANY Republican and then pray that my interests will be understood by a person who does not appear to know about or care about the experiences of people of color, or simply, the status quo for the last 240 years.

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #143)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 04:38 AM

162. Excellent post, Caliman73.

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #143)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 05:14 AM

163. Excellent and comprehensive. Thank you. nt

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #143)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 06:17 AM

164. "People of color aren't voting for people based solely on their gender or racial background. That..

..view is patronizing and condescending"

Exactly. Gracias for your post, Caliman

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Response to Cha (Reply #164)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 07:08 AM

166. Bernie always has to have some excuse for why he didn't win. With him

it's just one excuse after another.

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Response to Kahuna7 (Reply #166)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 07:20 AM

167. Aloha, Kahuna!



And, so many insults.

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Response to Cha (Reply #167)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 07:45 AM

169. Hey Baby! You're the only one who seems to remember me...

I sat DU out during the 2015/2016 primaries.... because you know it gets When I came back on election night it was hacked and I lost my account.

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #143)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 08:04 AM

171. And that thinking on Bernie's part defines white male privilege.

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #143)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 11:56 AM

184. +1000. (nt)

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #143)

Sun Jan 27, 2019, 11:02 PM

275. +1

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 03:41 AM

148. ANYONE who labels Democrats as their "opponents" can just Fuck Off

as far as I am concerned.

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Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #148)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:12 PM

199. Exactly

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 08:01 AM

170. white skin is such a burden to carry!!

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 11:35 AM

177. Not helping, Bernie. (nt)

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 11:45 AM

179. Actually I think I agree. If Bernie was female or a minority I think he would be more accepted.

 

White and democrat are a bit out of vogue right now. I hope we can always judge people by there content.

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Response to Joe941 (Reply #179)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 11:52 AM

181. Your contribution is duly noted

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Response to Joe941 (Reply #179)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 11:55 AM

183. Ah yes. White men are being oppressed more than anyone, so I hear.

Just ask those poor Covington boys.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #183)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:11 PM

198. Racism (and other isms) in all forms has to stop - it tears our country apart.

 

Question for you: The black Hebrews were being racists towards Covington boys, agree?

All racism is wrong. I will not support racism towards any group of people especially minorities, but including whites. It has absolutely divided our country in horrible ways.

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Response to Joe941 (Reply #198)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:39 PM

204. My response was concerning your statements to the effect

that white men are at a disadvantage in the Democratic Party.

Is that clearer?

White men complaining of reverse racism/sexism are expected from Trumpers or over at JPR, but not here on DU.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #204)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 08:06 PM

229. Exactly, ehrnst.. Thank You!

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Response to Cha (Reply #229)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 08:24 PM

230. Exhausting explaining the obvious, isn't it?

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #230)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 08:25 PM

231. Don't I know it!

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #204)

Sat Jan 26, 2019, 02:14 PM

253. Yeah, your average joe over at JPR would be all over this.

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Response to Joe941 (Reply #179)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:05 PM

193. Yeah, women and minorities going around yelling at walls are a big hit. NT

 

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Response to Joe941 (Reply #179)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:08 PM

195. Wow. A beautiful demonstration of white male privilege.

White male privilege allows a person to benefit from all the advantages of being white and male, and then turn around and claim he has been at a severe disadvantage all his life and that women and minorities have it so much easier.

I suggest you start actually listening to women and minorities. Learn about what we deal with every day before telling us we have it easier. Practice some empathy.

If Bernie had been female, he would have been called “shrill”, “weak”, and “unqualified “. If he had been black, he would have been dismissed as “an angry black man”, assuming he actually made it as far as the Senate and didn’t end up in jail or murdered by a cop decades earlier.

And yet, we have to listen to white men mansplaining to us that Bernie, all along, has had it so tough because he’s a white and male.

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Response to athena (Reply #195)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:14 PM

201. +1000

But they have a point. Just look at the free ride we've given to all of female and black Democratic Socialist senators with multiple marriages, a child out of wedlock, a propensity for disheveled hair and rumpled clothing, shaking their fingers and bellowing about the oligarchy ... THEY all get taken seriously, but poor Bernie can't catch a break ...

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #201)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:20 PM

203. Beautifully stated!

You made the point I was trying to make, but with humor and fewer words!

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Response to athena (Reply #195)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:55 PM

210. Please leave, Bernie.

And take your irritating followers with you.

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Response to Joe941 (Reply #179)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:09 PM

196. Yes. Being a white man in America is such a burden

If only Bernie were female or minority, he'd be taken much more seriously.

Poor poor Bernie

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #196)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:13 PM

200. I didn't say that. Please don't put words in my mouth.

 

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Response to Joe941 (Reply #200)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:16 PM

202. That's exactly what you said.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #202)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:50 PM

207. I said nothing about life in America.

 

But since you ask... being white in america I'm positive is easier than being a minority. That is wrong.

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Response to Joe941 (Reply #200)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:43 PM

205. Your exact words: "If Bernie was female or a minority I think he would be more accepted."

What Effie said: "If Bernie were female or minority, he'd be taken much more seriously."

I think that's pretty much what you said.

The fact that so many people are calling your statement an example of white male privilege should tell you something.

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Response to Joe941 (Reply #179)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 07:52 PM

227. We DO.. BS is Wrong.

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Response to Joe941 (Reply #179)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 10:36 PM

236. That is Straight UP Bulloney.

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Response to Joe941 (Reply #179)

Sun Jan 27, 2019, 11:03 PM

276. By whom?!?!?!

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:04 PM

189. Sick and tired of this man🤮

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:05 PM

191. I see three years later Bernie is still following the same bankrupt strategy

from those same jaggoff advisors...

No lessons learned at al

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:06 PM

194. His privilege is showing. NT

 

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:48 PM

206. Common wisdom on DU states that Bernie does not appeal to minorities. We will see.

We will see how that plays out in the real world, outside of the echo chamber of liberal activists and party loyalists.

I have a feeling that the average person of some minority demographic cares less about such statements than "common sense" would suggest.

From what I hear, actual polls show that amongst all demographics Bernie is least popular amongst white males and old people.

For better or for worse, my bets are that most people, across demographics, will see Joe Biden as the "default candidate". And if Biden gets the nomination, chances are he will lose to Trump.

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Response to redgreenandblue (Reply #206)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:09 PM

211. "We will see"?

We've already seen.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #211)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:24 PM

214. Not really. On DU we have seen, for sure. In the real world not so much.

In 2016 Bernie started from zero name recognition and ended up with 43 percent of the popular vote against the "inevitable" candidate. Those are not bad results, by any stretch of the imagination.

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Response to redgreenandblue (Reply #214)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:25 PM

215. Ok

Keep hope alive...

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Response to redgreenandblue (Reply #214)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:27 PM

216. This gives me some hope for our future.

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Response to redgreenandblue (Reply #214)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:32 PM

217. Because of the Mueller investigation, we know things now that were were not known then

concerning election interference, and a misinformation campaign by Russia.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/17/indictment-russians-also-tried-help-bernie-sanders-jill-stein-presidential-campaigns/348051002/

Since the election, the process of vetting Senator Sanders has truly started. Of course financial transparency is just a part of it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/02/us/politics/bernie-sanders-campaign-sexism.html

Should he run again, that will make things very different.




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Response to redgreenandblue (Reply #206)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:40 PM

220. You "feel" that he's popular with minority demographics

And you 'hear' that white men and old people aren't the ones that make up Bernie's base.

Your "bets" are that Joe Biden is now going to be the candidate.

Got any statistics to back these feelings up?

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #220)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 02:01 PM

221. Good statistics are pretty hard to come by currently.

The relative unpopularity of Bernie Sanders amongst old white males is discussed here:

https://www.vox.com/2018/12/19/18148681/joe-biden-bernie-sanders-approval-rating

And I said that I bet Biden will be seen as the "default candidate", not that he will get the nomination.

People who believe that minority voters will rally behind Kamala Harris might be in for a surprise. In 2016, from different interviews I gathered that a lot of what drove the support for Hillary Clinton amongst older black voters was the fact that she was seen as a "safe play". It is reasonable to assume that Biden will draw a significant chunk of the black vote for similar reasons.

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Response to redgreenandblue (Reply #221)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 02:13 PM

222. So, it's your "feeling," but you expect it to carry the weight of fact in this discussion.

Where have I heard that before?

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Response to redgreenandblue (Reply #206)

Sat Jan 26, 2019, 01:15 AM

239. It's on Twitter, too.. that BS does not

appeal to minorities.

I can see why.

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Response to Cha (Reply #239)

Sat Jan 26, 2019, 01:32 AM

240. The Blue Wave certainly surprised him.

I guess if one believes the Democratic Party is a "failed ideology" their victory would seem to come out of the blue. Maybe he should rethink that.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #240)

Sat Jan 26, 2019, 01:58 AM

241. Sure did. Curious what are his

thoughts on Woman Badass Nancy Pelosi? Not really.. doesn't matter.

I know we have people of all colors, genders, and orientations who are more qualified and dedicated than he is.

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Response to Cha (Reply #241)

Sat Jan 26, 2019, 02:43 AM

244. That's for sure!

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Response to betsuni (Reply #240)

Sat Jan 26, 2019, 07:41 AM

247. The Blue Wave didn't validate his claims that the Democratic Party

wasn't really getting it right in terms of priorities, and how our message, where it differs from his, isn't really resonating with people.

All those POC elected without his or OR's or "Social Justice Democrats" endorsement, in other words, "regardless of their positions."

The Blue Wave validated "his opponents," which from seem to be anyone who dissents in any way from the manifesto and doesn't get his endorsement.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #247)

Sat Jan 26, 2019, 08:23 AM

249. He's hard of listening.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #249)

Mon Jan 28, 2019, 12:43 AM

283. Just read this. Great response. I will remember it.

LOL. Hard of Listening!

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2019, 02:11 AM

243. kick

Just to help this thread stay in sight of other Bernie threads.

Glad that little trash clicker is available.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2019, 03:49 AM

245. No, Senator Sanders

Your opponents, the Democratic Party, can see through the film-flam. This is not 2016.

But if you insist? Please, proceed.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2019, 03:58 AM

246. Diversity in representation leads to better public policies. If Bernie can't see that it's time

to retire

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2019, 01:56 PM

251. Sanders is providing ample fuel for bothsiderists.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2019, 02:08 PM

252. I just heard Kamala Harris on Rachel Show say that her mother told her that if you seen something

wrong, do something about it. That's why she's running. I heard Elizabeth Warren talk about the dying middle class.

Not sure what Bernie means by "identity politics." These candidates are qualified and they are principled.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Reply #252)

Sat Jan 26, 2019, 05:06 PM

255. Of course they are. Thank you for

that, MM

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Response to Cha (Reply #255)

Sat Jan 26, 2019, 05:08 PM

256. Welcome, Cha

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Reply #256)

Sat Jan 26, 2019, 05:45 PM

260. Aloha, Mary!

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2019, 02:21 PM

254. ...

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Response to Scurrilous (Reply #254)

Sun Jan 27, 2019, 03:06 PM

264. ..

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Response to Cha (Reply #264)

Sun Jan 27, 2019, 03:15 PM

265. ...

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2019, 11:25 PM

277. "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." Maya Angelou

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2019, 11:31 PM

278. It's being carried along on Twitter

Last edited Mon Jan 28, 2019, 12:29 AM - Edit history (1)


?s=21

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Response to RandySF (Reply #278)

Mon Jan 28, 2019, 12:33 AM

282. yeah, I don't need him explained..

I know who he is.

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Response to RandySF (Reply #278)

Mon Jan 28, 2019, 12:50 AM

284. Typical. Claim everything's about policy while making it about everything except policy.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Fri Mar 22, 2019, 10:01 PM

285. I agree

We shouldn't elect someone just because they are Black, white, latina, or female. We should elect them because they are black, white, latina, female and share the values that we do.

“My main belief is that we need to bring together a coalition of people—of black and white and Latino and Asian-American and Native-American—around a progressive agenda which is prepared to take on an extraordinarily powerful ruling class in this country. That is my view."
- BS

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Response to Catch2.2 (Reply #285)

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