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Tue Jan 22, 2019, 10:21 PM

Before our eyes, Italy is becoming a fascist state

Before our eyes, Italy is becoming a fascist state
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/italy-fascist-policies-march-rome-matteo-salvini-donald-trump-a8586711.html

The latest eccentric proposal from the interior and deputy prime minister, Matteo Salvini, is to make “ethnic” shops close at 9pm. This is because, in his view, some premises, “almost all managed by foreign citizens”, had “become the haunt of drunks and drug dealers” in the evening.

What’s more, Salvini, who is becoming world-famous as a sort of mini-me Donald Trump, adds that such shops were full of “people who drink beer, whiskey until three in the morning” and who “piss and shit” on the doorstep.

Readers may recall the boycott of Jewish shops and businesses pursued by Hitler in the 1930s, and the various curfews imposed on racial minorities by tyrants throughout history. Italy’s bizarre retail curfew is just the latest in a series of measures designed to turn the entire country into what might be termed a “hostile environment” for refugees, asylum seekers and economic migrants. A “census” of Roma people, the refusal to rescue migrants from leaky boats in the Mediterranean and the threat to imprison local mayors who sought to welcome refugees to their depopulated towns and villages are some of the other recent attacks on human rights. Italy leads the world in rolling back civil liberties, if nothing else.

...

No one, one hopes, thinks that Salvini and his friends are about to invade Abyssinia or Albania, but they are certainly dangerous and a threat to the harmony of Europe, fought for and forged over the seven decades since the last time the fascists told us they had all the answers. In Poland, in Hungary, in the Czech Republic, fascists run whole countries. In places such as Austria and Denmark they either share power or are close to it. In France the National Front is re-inventing itself, Macron almost a last hope for French democracy. In Germany we know what has happened; the rise of the AfD has pushed the two main parties into an uncomfortable permanent grand alliance, squeezing the life out of the social democrats, and leaving the neo-Nazis as the unofficial opposition. The same appears to be happening in Sweden.

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Reply Before our eyes, Italy is becoming a fascist state (Original post)
Roland99 Jan 22 OP
912gdm Jan 22 #1
Clash City Rocker Jan 23 #29
Dawson Leery Jan 22 #2
bdamomma Jan 22 #3
Drahthaardogs Jan 23 #23
UTUSN Jan 22 #4
magicarpet Jan 22 #5
htuttle Jan 22 #6
smirkymonkey Jan 22 #18
Liberty Belle Jan 22 #7
misanthrope Jan 22 #10
pamdb Jan 23 #27
regnaD kciN Jan 22 #12
roamer65 Jan 22 #16
magicarpet Jan 23 #19
KentuckyWoman Jan 22 #17
Blue_Tires Jan 23 #33
NewJeffCT Jan 23 #36
allgood33 Jan 22 #8
OnDoutside Jan 23 #20
Drahthaardogs Jan 23 #24
OnDoutside Jan 23 #26
colsohlibgal Jan 22 #9
Hassin Bin Sober Jan 22 #14
magicarpet Jan 23 #21
appalachiablue Jan 22 #11
Boomerproud Jan 23 #25
Roland99 Jan 23 #34
SCantiGOP Jan 22 #13
magicarpet Jan 23 #22
kimbutgar Jan 22 #15
democratisphere Jan 23 #28
Mr. Sparkle Jan 23 #30
DetlefK Jan 23 #31
Blue_Tires Jan 23 #32
OliverQ Jan 23 #35
muriel_volestrangler Jan 23 #37

Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 10:24 PM

1. again?

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Response to 912gdm (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 23, 2019, 08:08 AM

29. That's what I was going to say

Italy ping-ponged between fascism and socialism for a long time. One would think they had learned by now that it doesn’t work very well.

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 10:27 PM

2. ...and Salvini has 64% approval rating.

as where Trump is 25 points lower.

I will stay in America.

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 10:34 PM

3. That

pendulum better swing very hard to the left to get rid of these bastards.

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Response to bdamomma (Reply #3)

Wed Jan 23, 2019, 07:34 AM

23. It's simple really. A disgruntled middle class turns to

Fascism. Always has. The problem is that the controlling rich convince the masses it's the poor to blame.

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 10:36 PM

4. Like *us*?!

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 10:36 PM

5. Makes you puke,.. don't it ?

Brazil,
Philippines,
Turkey,
(Bone)...Saw-die Arabia,
Almost Fucking France.....

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 10:37 PM

6. Because that turned out so well for them last time

I was going to post the 'Mussolini hanging upside down under a bridge' image, but decided I'd spare those with more delicate sensibilities.

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Response to htuttle (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 11:40 PM

18. Maybe some of these fascist need to see that image more often.

Just to remind them of how they can end up if they go too far.

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 10:42 PM

7. Chilling to see fascism spreading across Europe beyond just Italiy

As well as a racist ruler in Brazil, the U.S. and elsewhere.

What is wrong with our world that this can be happening again?

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Response to Liberty Belle (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 10:54 PM

10. Mixed with climate change, it becomes even more volatile

The tribalism, paranoia and bellicosity of authoritarian states will only intensify the negative consequences of climate change. Resources deplete, people starve and thirst, disease spreads, massive migration heightens, borders are closed, shots are fired, missiles fly, it just becomes a big ol' funhouse of humanity's tendency toward self-destruction.

Be glad you are alive now and not 100 years in the future.

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Response to misanthrope (Reply #10)

Wed Jan 23, 2019, 08:03 AM

27. Yup

And I’ll be dead in 20 years ( I’m 67) and I don’t have a problem with that. Not anymore.

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Response to Liberty Belle (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 11:03 PM

12. It's almost like there's some world power...

...working covertly to spread their ideology through the world.

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Response to regnaD kciN (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 11:19 PM

16. Like Russia?

That power is Putin’s fascist Russia.

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Response to regnaD kciN (Reply #12)

Wed Jan 23, 2019, 03:32 AM

19. Did someone just say Steve,...

Bannon and his secret not so secret moneybags benefactors - the Fascist Capitalists of the Royal House of Mercer.

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Response to Liberty Belle (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 11:27 PM

17. Time

There has been enough of it pass by that WWII gets are mostly gone. 4-5 generations. The current youngsters will learn the hard way. It breaks my heart. I am thankful I am within the last 10-15 years of my ride.

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Response to Liberty Belle (Reply #7)

Wed Jan 23, 2019, 09:23 AM

33. This is what happens when the voting public buys into that

"We hate the entrenched status quo so much that we'll literally vote for some fringe outsider renegade anti-candidate who has a bunch of overly simple pie-in-the-sky "solutions" for all our problems!"

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Response to Liberty Belle (Reply #7)

Wed Jan 23, 2019, 10:26 AM

36. Malcolm Nance explained it

in his The Plot to Destroy Democracy - worldwide effort on the part of Russia/Putin to promote RW fascist types. Even if they fail in some countries, it can still cause chaos there and in neighboring countries

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 10:52 PM

8. Did they ever stop being one?

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Response to allgood33 (Reply #8)

Wed Jan 23, 2019, 05:04 AM

20. Yes, just like Austria, they've never had to come to terms with their past bad deeds.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #20)

Wed Jan 23, 2019, 07:37 AM

24. Oh complete bullshit.

Italy has been more socialized than most in Europe. I spent many a summer in Piedmont.

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Response to Drahthaardogs (Reply #24)

Wed Jan 23, 2019, 07:57 AM

26. And yet here we are. Britain brought in the NHS in 1945 and have had many Labour Governments, yet

here we are.

In the aftermath of WW2, Italian Nationalism never went away and while there was a certain amount of "denazification/defascistation", it was not nearly as much as Germany and in fact the captured fascists were released in 1946. It was more important to rebuild Italy, to keep it out of the Soviet sphere of influence.

Nationalism in Europe has sometimes (not always) been a cover for fascists.

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 10:54 PM

9. Cycles Tend To Return

Like Yogi Berra said it’s like Deja Vu all over again.

Collective Memory Folks. The vast majority of people around and of an age to understand the spread of Fascism in the 30s are no longer around now. So round and round we go.

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Response to colsohlibgal (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 11:06 PM

14. I once read, I forget where, history repeats after 80 years when the witnesses die.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #14)

Wed Jan 23, 2019, 05:17 AM

21. Alzheimer's and dementia is a gift from God shared only with the elderly

....reality is nasty business for everyone to digest and content with, especially those in their youth. God bless the youths, they have the temerity and the stamina to begin to learn and attempt to understand the reality we dumped in their laps when they were not even looking, or had a clue what reality was all about.

What do you think this self medicating bullshit is all about, they fell off the train and landed on the tracks, then the fucking train ran over them and they got squished - these are people who can not contend with and seek avoidance of reality.

God Bless them, they really seem to be the only ones who have theirs heads screwed on straight, the rest of us, come to find, have our heads screwed on backwards.

Dementia and Alzheimer's are truly a gift from the Gods upstairs - could you order me up a 55 gallon drum, no make that two instead. Reality is getting real fucked up down here, as days go by it is only getting worse, not better.

We need a constant state of Belladonna Haze down here just to contend with reality.

Jesus Christ Almighty - this ain't rocket, ballistic, or anti-anti-ballistic missile science, just human nature.

We all have our limits, we all have finite resources of the mechanisms that permit and allow us to cope, and we all have thresholds of tolerance that are wise not to cross. But remember this also, we are all wired just slightly differently, your acquainted with the genetic codes, then you know what point I labor to convey. We are different from one another but that is a reality that should cause us to celebrate not lash out and discriminate.

trDump are you listening ?

Reality can never ever be allowed to become ugly or fucked up, but rather it is intended to be and must remain a delightful and pleasant thing to behold and cherish, to look forwards to, rather than habitually escape from.

We can't allow ourselves the errors of forgetting that - if we do we introduce the destruction of the thing we all call humanity.

If our goal is to achieve that, we should proceed on our charted course. If our detriment is not the intended goal, all hands on deck, somebody do something, we are about to crash into the shoals and reality will soon become more super duper fucked up.

It would be wise to avoid all that ! Get out the charts and plan a safer course of action. Better days will come for man and woman kind if we strive for and construct better realities, good things will happen, and to boot, we just gave ourselves the promise and the gift of a better tomorrows.

Let's get our asses in gear - clean up this mess we allowed be made in our names.

A working and well functioning DEMOCRACY requires vigilance, and one gift we should not permit be given back or abandon, or surrender.

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 11:02 PM

11. Impt. article- what's happened in Italy & other parts of Europe.

"We often think that fascism is a grainy, black-and-white newsreel affair, with ranting leaders in ridiculous uniforms strutting around a far off time. Today’s fascists are rather different, with their open-necked shirts and social media profiles. Yet the philosophy is identical.

There is the same contempt for democracy, nowadays labelled “the Establishment”. Traditional politicians are vilified as corrupt, self-seeking failures, just as they were in the 1920s and 1930s. “Foreigners”, at home and abroad, are blamed for complex economic problems. Protectionism is grasped at as a quick fix; free trade is misunderstood and despised. International organisations, such as the UN and EU, are attacked for their “interference” in domestic affairs."

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Response to appalachiablue (Reply #11)

Wed Jan 23, 2019, 07:55 AM

25. Outstanding post

K&R with thanks.

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Response to appalachiablue (Reply #11)

Wed Jan 23, 2019, 10:18 AM

34. +1

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 11:03 PM

13. I remember from studying him years ago

That one of the first defining issues for Mussolini that launched his career was opposition to the League of Nations.

Certainly fits Trump’s bio.

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #13)

Wed Jan 23, 2019, 05:42 AM

22. Generalissimo trDump,...

Promises you the new and improved junta. But all he has really done is bottled up the same old trDump branded recipe of standard snake oil. This time only, because of the new label he slapped on it and has slightly changed the outside packaging, he has decided to doubled the price this one time special offering.

To make a long story short, some idiots will buy anything you put in front of them, just look at the volumes and volumes of junk and garbage they move on the Home Shopping Network.

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 11:16 PM

15. in Venice, "the ethnic" have businesses open that sustain that community

It will be interesting to see if this plays out.

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Wed Jan 23, 2019, 08:05 AM

28. The Oligarchs of the world are the enemy of the masses,

not the poor as they have tried to make all of US believe.

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Wed Jan 23, 2019, 08:14 AM

30. This is an indirect way to go after immigrants while appealing to his far right base

we have seem trump target immigrants similarly .

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Wed Jan 23, 2019, 08:24 AM

31. That bit about the AfD in Germany is wrong.

It all started way back (in Merkel's first term?) when the general election brought a result of 35:35:10:10:10. Normally, a government-coalition is between two parties, but now only a coalition between three parties would have had enough votes for 50%+. But a coalition of three parties would have been politically unstable, so the two biggest parties decided to ally: The center-right Christian Democrats and the center-left Social-Democrats.

In that coalition, Merkel absorbed some of the social policies of the left while sticking to the financial policies of the right. Thus neutered, the SPD had no chance to openly criticize Merkel and endanger the coalition.

Up until that point, the go-to party for anti-establishment sentiment was Die Linke, a far-left party originally rooted in the socialist party of East-Germany.



Then came the syrian civil-war that soon grew into an international war on syrian soil. Massive influx of immigrants to Europe.
Merkel's coalition of CDU and SPD was nice to the immigrants.
Die Linke was nice to the immigrants.
And so the people who were anti-immigrant needed a new anti-establishment party. The other far-right parties in Germany openly have contacts with Neonazis. So, a new far-right party was founded.
The AfD.
Neonazis with a nice, bourgeois face.

1. The AfD is a typical anti-establishment party, with political stunts and no interest in actually solving problems.

2. In the latest general election, the AfD massively gained votes while Die Linke massively lost. The AfD has replaced Die Linke as the party you vote for when you are dissatisfied with politics in general.

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Wed Jan 23, 2019, 09:20 AM

32. They aren't the only ones...

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Wed Jan 23, 2019, 10:23 AM

35. Does this mean I should cancel my trip to Italy this Spring? :(

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Wed Jan 23, 2019, 11:04 AM

37. Italy evicts more than 500 people from refugee centre

More than 500 people are being ousted from a refugee reception centre in a town close to Rome in the first major eviction since Italy’s rightwing populist government enacted hardline immigration measures into law.

Thirty people were evicted from the centre, the second-largest of its kind in Italy and the place where Pope Francis washed residents’ feet as part of his Easter ritual in 2016, in Castelnuovo di Porto on Tuesday. A further 75 were removed on Wednesday, with the remaining 430 to be evicted before the centre’s closure on 31 January.
...
Salvini claimed the centre, which has hosted about 8,000 people over the last eight years, was a den for “drug-dealing and crime” and that the same fate would soon befall the 2,000 people living in the sprawling Cara di Mineo reception centre in in Sicily and at similar structures across Italy.
...
Riccardo Travaglini, the mayor of Castelnuovo di Porto, told reporters that no notice was given before the evictions. Men, women and children, many enrolled in local schools, were reportedly separated before the majority were taken by bus to undisclosed destinations. Some were housed by local residents, including Travaglini, who took in a woman from Somalia and her child.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/23/italy-evicts-more-than-500-people-refugee-centre-near-rome

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