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Mon Jan 14, 2019, 12:43 PM

Holy cow. This NY Times story is just littered with seismic earth-shakers sure to rattle the windows

This is The Hoarse Whisperer..a thread that was hard to put together for our format...it says a lot...and in chronological order..

Holy cow. This NY Times story is just littered with seismic earth-shakers sure to rattle the windows at the White House. Yowza. My very quick first-blush take on the meaty nuggets... Letís dive in!

In the days after Comeyís firing, the FBI opened a COUNTERINTELLIGENCE investigation of Trump himself. WOW! Unlike the initial Trump-Russia investigation (which was looking primarily at events in 2016), the counterintel investigation was basically surveillance in 2017+.

Naturally, deciding to basically turn your national security and intelligence magnifying glasses on the President of the United States is a BIG DEAL. The FBI didnít enter into it lightly. 3/

But then Trump fired Comey... AND... did two more things that raised red flags. The first: he wrote a letter on Comeyís firing and mentioned Russia. The subtle Easter egg there: the FBI had the draft of the unsent letter. 4/

Now, tie that together with the fact that this story was broken by Mike Schmidt of the NYT. As Iíve said often in the past, I am of the belief that former White House Counsel Don McGahn is Schmidtís source for these big bombshells.

If that is indeed the case, McGahn may very well have been working with Mueller months earlier than we ever knew. Somehow, the FBI had a draft of an unsent letter immediately. If not McGahn, it could well have been turned over by Rosenstein. Regardless, the FBI was on it. 6/

Moving right along, the implications of this are potentially enooooormous. Mueller didnít just inherit ONE investigation focused on what happened before. He also inherited a second which was actively tracking Trumpís actions AS THEY WERE UNFOLDING. 7/

That counterintelligence investigation would have required approval at the DOJ. I canít see how that would have been possible without Jeff Sessionsí buy-in, or at minimum, awareness. Iíd be shocked if that all went down without Sessions even hearing about it. 8/

Maybe Rosenstein parlayed Sessionsí recusal into keeping all this a secret. If thatís the case, expect Trump to be looking for Rosensteinís head on a platter any minute now. If he goes off on Rosenstein, Rod knew. Jefferson Beauregard didnít.

Anyway, I digress. Another doozy of this now-revealed real-time counterintel probe of Trump itself: It basically served as a safety net the entire time we sat fretting about Trump firing Mueller.


The FBI was investigating potential crimes... while also monitoring the chief potential criminal in case he tried to interfere with their work. Think about that... the FBIís counterintel resources were trained on the guy who had a ďprivate chatĒ w Putin in Helsinki.

We donít know what actions that investigation took. It is fair to assume it included mining ongoing intel from our own resources at the NSA, etc., as well as from allies. That would have the effect of putting relevant work-product of any allyís spying in Muellerís hands.


Meaning, even if we werenít eavesdropping on Trumpís convo w Putin, his late-night phone calls, his adminís back-channel contacts with Russians, etc... someone was. Whether it was the UK, Germany, Estonia, Spain, Israel, Australia or whomever, EVERYONE spies on Russia...

...and Mueller had an open folder just waiting to be filled with whatever tasty nuggets those eyes and ears happened to pass our way. Think: A real-time Steele dossier with updates baked fresh daily.

Bringing it down out of Tom Clancy ďHunt for Orange OctoberĒ territory to a more modest, conservative takeaway, we can count on at least this much: The counterintel investigation makes it highly likely Mueller has obstruction charges nailed six ways to Sunday.


Why? The CI work was essentially spying or tracking from Comeyís firing foreward. At minimum, it would have provided intel on the obstruction effort as it unfolded... and, at minimum, that would have guided Muellerís interviews.

Remember all those witnesses who came out of meetings w Mueller saying he knew EVERYTHING? He did. Erik Prince, Stone, Corsi, McGahn, et al. He knew everything when they walked in. He had people paying attention after they walked out. 17/


Okay, Iím spinning like a top here so let me bring this in for a landing: Trump has spent the last two years trying to obstruct an investigation into 2016 events... ...and little did he know, his biggest problem would prove to be what he was doing in 2017-2018.

I think we now better understand why Mueller never called in Kushner or Junior. They were caught up in a live counterintel sweep. Questioning them would have given that away. That earth-shaker is about to sink in for them. Their problems just got 10x bigger. 19/


Last comment. Sry for rambling. Knowing all of this, I virtually guarantee Mueller turned an insider or two. Flipped informants. Not just witnesses. Informants. Don McGahn is a prime candidate. Mueller likely turned someone in the Admin itself. Iíd bet many beers on it.

The Hoarse Whisperer Retweeted The New York Times

Oops. Forgot the link. Here it is.

The Hoarse Whisperer added,
The New York TimesVerified account @nytimes
President Trumpís actions so alarmed the FBI after James Comeyís firing that it began investigating if he was working on behalf of Russia

Okay, okay, okay, I canít stop. Iím too amped up now. Iím practically oscillating. Hereís a delicious little karmic dessert to round out this sumptuous info feast... Remember the guy who was president before the Marmalade Menace took office? This guy... #44. Obama


On his way out the door, we all were wallowing in our winter of discontent, Obama signed an executive order... It went largely uncovered but I noted it at the time. It was like when youíre watching Law & Order and they zoom in on a paperweight in Minute 5 of the show...

You just know that paperweight is gonna come back into play around Minute 55. Foreshadowing! Pretext! Other words meaning ďthatís gonna matter!Ē Anyway, the point is... Obama signed an EO as a parting shot one week before leaving office.

The order revised the rules around intelligence sharing among our intel community. Specifically, it made the firehose of raw intelligence collected by the NSA directly accessible to the FBI and CIA. Instead of having to ask for intel and getting what they filtered down...

The FBI and CIA could directly access the unfiltered ďSigIntĒ or signals intelligence. Intercepted phone calls, emails, raw intel from human sources. Everything our vast intelligence vacuum hoovers up, available directly... but only for counterintel and foreign intel purposes.




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Arrow 52 replies Author Time Post
Reply Holy cow. This NY Times story is just littered with seismic earth-shakers sure to rattle the windows (Original post)
jodymarie aimee Jan 14 OP
niyad Jan 14 #1
denbot Jan 14 #2
tclambert Jan 14 #34
voteearlyvoteoften Jan 14 #3
MyOwnPeace Jan 14 #4
BumRushDaShow Jan 14 #5
CrispyQ Jan 14 #6
Dem_4_Life Jan 14 #12
erronis Jan 14 #25
fierywoman Jan 14 #27
Danascot Jan 14 #42
yonder Jan 14 #7
Stand and Fight Jan 14 #8
BumRushDaShow Jan 14 #14
Stand and Fight Jan 14 #22
BumRushDaShow Jan 14 #35
jodymarie aimee Jan 14 #36
BumRushDaShow Jan 14 #38
colorado_ufo Jan 14 #9
onetexan Jan 14 #10
BigmanPigman Jan 14 #11
hedda_foil Jan 14 #26
BigmanPigman Jan 14 #29
watoos Jan 14 #13
Mme. Defarge Jan 14 #15
2naSalit Jan 14 #17
Mme. Defarge Jan 14 #20
2naSalit Jan 14 #21
2naSalit Jan 14 #16
BarbD Jan 14 #18
BlueJac Jan 14 #19
alwaysinasnit Jan 14 #23
alfredo Jan 14 #24
ginnyinWI Jan 14 #28
Lotus54 Jan 14 #47
Scurrilous Jan 14 #30
Pepsidog Jan 14 #31
vlyons Jan 14 #32
FirstLight Jan 14 #33
tblue37 Jan 14 #37
bobbieinok Jan 14 #39
jodymarie aimee Jan 14 #43
bobbieinok Jan 14 #45
Hassler Jan 14 #40
onlyadream Jan 14 #41
BadGimp Jan 14 #44
JHB Jan 14 #46
Honeycombe8 Jan 14 #48
Sancho Jan 14 #49
BlueJac Jan 15 #50
IronLionZion Jan 15 #51
northoftheborder Jan 15 #52

Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 12:45 PM

1. k and r

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 12:53 PM

2. I guess they will drop the hammer as soon as every i is dotted, and every t crossed.

Can't happen fast enough.

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Response to denbot (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 02:40 PM

34. But if Trump continues to commit crimes, will they just keep investigating?

At some point, they have to say, "Okay, from this point forward, someone else will have to investigate any new crimes."

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:01 PM

3. Yessssss

Glad for those who put country first 🇺🇸

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:03 PM

4. We're starting to see........

an avalanche of information - an avalanche that IQ45 will NOT be able to stop or hide from.
The funny thing about an avalanche - as it gains momentum it gathers more - and more - and more....................

You're going down, TRUMP!!!!!

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:09 PM

5. Here is a link to the unrolled version but also to unrolled later related ones

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:14 PM

6. "Hunt for Orange October"



If you wrote this into a novel a publisher would write back, "This isn't believable. Back off on some of the story lines."

My ultimate fantasy is that Trump goes down, along with the complicit GOP leadership, & that it's so bad for Putin he can't set foot outside of Russia. I don't know if that's even possible, but in my book it happens.

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #6)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:35 PM

12. That one really cracked me up!



I hope this is all true and we find out very soon.

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #6)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 02:11 PM

25. And Putine may not be particularly happy in his new USSR with elevated sanctions and unable to feed

his consorts/oligarchs. Hate to see anything bad happen to the ex KGB agent.

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #6)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 02:15 PM

27. ...and/or that the Russian people become hyper aware of Putin's corruption

because of the US investigation of what Putin made happen in the US and they get rid of him.

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #6)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 03:42 PM

42. "along with the complicit GOP leadership"

... along those lines, I was reading some of the hoarse whisperer's earlier threads and came across this:

What Pelosi and Schumer are actually doing though is forcing Republicans to strap in alongside Trump and take the entire Thelma and Louise trip right over the cliff with him.

Theyíre baiting Trump into exactly what heís doing: showing that he is utterly incapable of reason.

4/
Chuck and Nancy are forcing Rís into a position where they have no choice but to wrestle the steering wheel away from Trump.

Theyíre baiting Trump into being utterly inflexible at any cost to force his ranks to mutiny.

5/
...and once the ranks have mutinied, a Mad General never again has the same power.

Pelosi and Schumer are forcing the moment to its crisis as T.S. Elliott would say.

The ranks will break. And when they do, it wonít have just won the battle; it will have also turned the war.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1083141845151088640.html

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:17 PM

7. K&R

Ooohh, and this one: "Anyway, I digress. Another doozy of this now-revealed real-time counterintel probe of Trump itself: It basically served as a safety net the entire time we sat fretting about Trump firing Mueller."

From that old cop show. "let's be safe out there".

Sounds like they're covering the bases.



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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:21 PM

8. A link in your post would be nice. n/t

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Response to Stand and Fight (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:38 PM

14. It's from his tweets

The first tweet from the OP's posting of the tweet thread is here -



TEXT
The Hoarse Whisperer @HoarseWisperer

Holy cow. This NY Times story is just littered with seismic earth-shakers sure to rattle the windows at the White House.

Yowza. My very quick first-blush take on the meaty nuggets...

First, hereís the link:

Letís dive in!

1/
16.7K
10:40 PM - Jan 11, 2019


The rest of his twitter threads related to this subject and "unrolled" (i.e., combined by a service website that generates a single page of multiple tweets meant as a "thread" and publishes it) have links that I posted here (including the OP one) - https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211669351#post5

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #14)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:59 PM

22. Thank you for this. n/t

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Response to Stand and Fight (Reply #22)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 02:51 PM

35. You are welcome!

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #14)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 03:04 PM

36. thank you

it took me 2 hrs to put this together from his tweets...taking likes, etc out...and making it legible....

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Reply #36)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 03:28 PM

38. You are not the only one!

Until many of us discovered that "threadreader app" site, we had to do the same thing! It doesn't always have all the interesting threads done but does usually get the popular twitter users like Hoarse Whisperer, Seth Abramson, PopeHat (now posting under PeachesHat@PopeHat), Benjamin Wittes, etc.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:32 PM

9. Aha! There were accusations - I think I remember some from Trump -

of why didn't President Obama come forward with information he had about possible/probable Russian interference in the election; why didn't he do something about it?

He did.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:34 PM

10. Whoa, O left a back door for the FBI/CIA to the intel?

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:34 PM

11. NYTImes Mike Schmidt is the one who reported that Rosenstein wore a wire

to get info on tRump back in Sept. I remember thinking why would the NYTimes give info to tRump so he could fire Rosenstein? He said his source was secret of course.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/27/reader-center/rod-rosenstein-reporting.html

"Why would The New York Times print a story that would give the president the legitimate excuse he was searching for to justify firing Rosenstein and thereby stop the Mueller investigation? The consequence of printing this story is certain; Rosenstein will be fired to stop Mueller."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/21/us/politics/rod-rosenstein-wear-wire-25th-amendment.html

"Mr. Rosenstein made the remarks about secretly recording Mr. Trump and about the 25th Amendment in meetings and conversations with other Justice Department and F.B.I. officials. Several people described the episodes in interviews over the past several months, insisting on anonymity to discuss internal deliberations. The people were briefed either on the events themselves or on memos written by F.B.I. officials, including Andrew G. McCabe, then the acting bureau director, that documented Mr. Rosensteinís actions and comments."

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Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #11)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 02:14 PM

26. I don't think there's any public knowledge of Rosenstein WEARING a wire. We know he suggested it.

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Response to hedda_foil (Reply #26)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 02:17 PM

29. Yes, he says he had the idea but not that he carried it out.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:36 PM

13. 5 eyes sees and hears everything.

We may not be allowed to spy on American citizens but the U.K. can and can give us the information. This is why Bin Laden and his commanders stopped using cell phones. 5 eyes or our intelligence not only tracks you by your cell phone but they know what you are saying and doing on your cell.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:40 PM

15. Holy merde!

Sacrť bleu!

Incroyable! Formidable! Etc.

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Response to Mme. Defarge (Reply #15)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:43 PM

17. Oui! C'est vrai!

I was hoping there was this case progressing under the radar, good to know.

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #17)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:55 PM

20. YCMTMU!

You canít make this merde up!

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Response to Mme. Defarge (Reply #20)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:58 PM

21. No but this sure fits in

with my suspicions from early on.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:41 PM

16. Oh yeah! Just in time for another eclipse!

This one's the full moon total, and we'll get to see it. I am ready for the fireworks, been waiting for a couple years now...

Plastic Poncho On...Check
Helmet and goggles in place...Check
Popcorn ready...Check
Seatbelt Fastened...Check

Let's roll!

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:44 PM

18. Connecting the dots.........

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:52 PM

19. K&R

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 02:05 PM

24. Fingers crossed.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 02:17 PM

28. We see just the tip of this iceberg.

My favorite part:

Okay, Iím spinning like a top here so let me bring this in for a landing: Trump has spent the last two years trying to obstruct an investigation into 2016 events... ...and little did he know, his biggest problem would prove to be what he was doing in 2017-2018.

I think we now better understand why Mueller never called in Kushner or Junior. They were caught up in a live counterintel sweep. Questioning them would have given that away. That earth-shaker is about to sink in for them. Their problems just got 10x bigger. 19/

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Response to ginnyinWI (Reply #28)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 08:19 PM

47. ginny, your two astounding paragraphs hit the bull's-eye

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 02:18 PM

30. K&R

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 02:21 PM

31. Wow great post. So let me get this right, the FBI has a counterintelligence investigation into Trump

Russia connections then opened a new counterintelligence investigation after Dotard fired Comey. So 2 investigations:
-First investigation 1. Trump/Russia connection leading up to election.

Second 2. New investigation after Trump fired Comey and going forward and possibly continuing until this day.

Mueller will never finish cause Trump canít stop committing crimes. Grand jury extended for another 6 months. Might as well be another 2 years at this rate.

Really you cannot make this shit up. Someday this will be a 21 part documentary like the series The World at War. Trump definitely is the best liar ever and best criminal president we have ever had.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 02:27 PM

32. It's no wonder why Trump keeps his chats with Putin private

nt

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 02:32 PM

33. Thanks for putting this thread together!

It really is quite a bombshell...or two...or three...

so much to keep track of!

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 03:10 PM

37. K&R for visibility. nt

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 03:36 PM

39. Many, many thanks 4 giving us the collusion timeline from hoarsewhisperer!!

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Response to bobbieinok (Reply #39)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 03:47 PM

43. I worked all morning on it

but it was worth it...

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Reply #43)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 07:14 PM

45. Totally agree. And again--thanks for your work!

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 03:37 PM

40. Tronald Dump replies: Honest, I never worked for Vlad. Believe me!

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 03:42 PM

41. I'm surprised Trump didn't undo Obama's last EO

Was he unaware of it???

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 05:00 PM

44. NO COLLUSION!

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 07:52 PM

46. This might help for unspooling and copying long Twitter threads:

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 08:46 PM

48. My head is spinning. Interesting whether Sessions knew.

Since he had recused himself, it's possible he was left out of the loop regarding anything involving any investigation regarding anyone on the campaign and Russia. Or...maybe he did know. He and Rosenstein were photographed at dinner together and other times. They were very chummy.

My head is spinning.

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 09:41 PM

49. Paperweights!!! What about the soccer ball with the chip inside?



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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2019, 06:50 AM

50. K&R

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2019, 10:37 AM

51. They've been working without pay, Trump/GOP are punishing them

making them feel the squeeze out of spite

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Response to jodymarie aimee (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2019, 11:33 AM

52. K & R to a thread that illustrates why I clue into DU so often

Thanks! this is going into my page save file

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