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Fri Jan 11, 2019, 04:49 PM

What does the damage at Joshua Tree and other parks tell us about we, humans, as a species?

I know that there are as many views about nature as there are people - I've got friends who can't watch even a cartoon with an animal getting hurt, but wants her burgers and steaks bloody. There are good people who hunt. There are those who don't care about tossing garbage out the window of our car but their houses are probably spotless.

But this article that I just found on Slate - https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/01/government-shutdown-shenandoah-national-park.html (the title is "The View From Shenandoah: The Shutdown Is a Middle Finger to Our Civil Servants and National Parks" if you wish to click it and read) gave me pause for thought...again.

(how many times have most of us found ourselves shaking our heads...or boiling angry....and what we've witnessed not only in the last two awful trumpian years, but even in the 8 Obama years in terms of the horrendous goal of McConnell and all to do nothing except try to ensure his failure)

But this is about nature - how we protect our earth, value the wonders - national parks, seashores - how we keep it as best as we can for the future - for people coming after us to enjoy, for the welfare of the animals that inhabit them.

We seem to be in such a race to the behavioral bottom that I don't even know how to process it. All it takes is an idiotic shutdown and the resulting reducing in caretakers for the parks for people to enter and go wild and destroy and litter and worse?

What the hell is happening to us?

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 05:00 PM

1. The theory is that these are likely locals who've wanted to do this for a long time

And they've been angry they couldn't use the land this way.

Still despicable of course.

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Response to manor321 (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 05:02 PM

2. well, then there is Yosemite - we see same here in Outer Banks NC

four wheelers get out on the beach and run over birds nests (driving through signs and ropes).

It's been going on for a long time, really. Getting worse in times like these.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 05:03 PM

3. We are headed for extinction..

.. because of the way we treat this planet.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 05:05 PM

4. It says we are horrible, selfish apes and probably always will be.

The damage at JTNP is MEN cutting down trees to get access to off-roading. Short-term wants trumping long-term needs.

70 years on from the end of WW2, and the MEN of the planet are embracing Fascism and Authoritarianism all over the world: Rusher, Italy, Hungary, Turkey, Brazil, the US.

Fear, ignorance and selfishness is so much easier than self-reflection and empathy.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #4)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 05:09 PM

5. at our best, we can be - we are occasionally - capable of so much more.

But...yes, ignorance, apathy, greed. Sad.

Probably entropy too...easier to let things go to disorder (caring for things takes energy, input, attention)

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 05:14 PM

7. I wonder lately if Feudalism is our natural societal state.

The Greeks couldn't keep their Democracy. Nor the French after the Revolution. England created a hybrid that ensures stability. Rusher barely tried.

We're sliding back from Democracy globally, and retreating in fear from the radical change its fulfillment demands: equality for all regardless of ethnicity, station, or sex.

"To the Privileged, Equality looks like Oppression".

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 08:05 PM

15. Your last paragraph was excellent and right on.

Having a society involves concern and effort and occasionally disappointment, having chaos involves nothing.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 05:09 PM

6. I wish

those who want to take out their frustrations on the environment head in another direction.....

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 05:14 PM

8. It's acting out. Too many of "us" as a species never had to grow up.

Coddled, privileged, and resentful of any attempt to install a sense of responsibility or consequences. These are the "casual cool kids" - aka, selfish jerks who can't conceive of a world outside of the reality that exists around them - and that everything around them is as transitory as their whims.

You're bored and not having fun anymore? Walk away and find something else interesting.
Finished with a task? Stop, drop everything where you stood, and just walk away. Someone else will pick it up.
Something in your way? Kick it or throw it out of the way, you can always get another one if it breaks.
Does it belong to someone else? Who cares, they should have taken better care of it.

Assholes like that always been around us, but we used to call them lazy slackers or vandals, and said there was something wrong with them - if they weren't rich. If they were rich, we called them clueless dilatants and kept them away from sharp objects whenever possible.

But that was back in an era when it was actually a special event to go out camping, and it was a quite a bit harder to replace things - or to survive - so actually paying attention to or taking care of things around you was important. Not everything was quickly acquired, disposable, or otherwise available online in multiples at a discount so everyone could get something that used to be thought of as special. Too many people live infantilized in their own worlds, and advertisers and media moguls encourage that.

Haele

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Response to haele (Reply #8)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 06:33 PM

14. +1

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 05:22 PM

9. Sadly, it's always been there. There are always the total asses who must run their ATVs

or dirt bikes through forest terrorizing both plant and animal life. The Joshua Tree event is especially bad because it's obviously destruction that took some planning since they brought chainsaws. It's sickening.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 05:23 PM

10. It says what we already know

There are many among us who are totally and completely thoughtless and ignorant - who simply don't give a flying fuck about rules, guidelines or the reasons why we don't vandalize or destroy anything in sight.
They are 'deplorables'.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 05:27 PM

11. historically/anthropologically speaking, every time homo sapiens made it to a new land mass,

that had been previously unoccupied by us, pretty much all other large mammals died off in a matter of a few hundred or a thousand years. So we've been doing that kind of thing for the whole history of the species, really.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 05:38 PM

12. These random acts of violence towards our national parks is hurting ALL of us. Destroy a ...

national treasure and you're only hurting those future generations in your own families from seeing these wonderful treasures and one in million landmarks. Other than this, these folks need to be tracked down and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and volunteers out there to watch these landmarks. Folks have been stepping up to clean up after these scumbags, but they need to be caught (license plates etc. captured) and banned from these national parks that they are trashing and damaging.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 06:09 PM

13. Unfortunately there are a lot of assholes out there.

That's why I like my dogs best.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 08:19 PM

16. Equal parts Sociopaths and ignorance, shake well.....

and pour straight up, it's called an Asshole. Seems to be popular these days.

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