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Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:09 PM

Won't be long before not one plane is flying

Chaos is on the way

Air Traffic Controllers Association head on M$NBComcast now

86 replies, 4555 views

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Reply Won't be long before not one plane is flying (Original post)
malaise Jan 11 OP
Zoonart Jan 11 #1
malaise Jan 11 #3
Zoonart Jan 11 #7
PatSeg Jan 11 #53
malaise Jan 11 #56
PatSeg Jan 11 #60
anarch Jan 11 #13
Achilleaze Jan 11 #16
Initech Jan 11 #22
Crutchez_CuiBono Jan 11 #27
mastermind Jan 11 #41
BamaRefugee Jan 11 #45
Initech Jan 11 #47
erronis Jan 11 #68
pangaia Jan 11 #70
bdamomma Jan 11 #84
anarch Jan 11 #79
FarPoint Jan 11 #2
malaise Jan 11 #4
dalton99a Jan 11 #5
malaise Jan 11 #6
TSheehan Jan 11 #8
malaise Jan 11 #10
sprinkleeninow Jan 11 #31
malaise Jan 11 #35
sprinkleeninow Jan 11 #36
erronis Jan 11 #69
MFGsunny Jan 11 #9
malaise Jan 11 #11
lpbk2713 Jan 11 #12
malaise Jan 11 #14
anarch Jan 11 #15
Renew Deal Jan 11 #17
ProudLib72 Jan 11 #21
malaise Jan 11 #23
haele Jan 11 #74
ProudLib72 Jan 11 #83
Crutchez_CuiBono Jan 11 #28
at140 Jan 11 #44
Hamlette Jan 11 #46
IronLionZion Jan 11 #64
2naSalit Jan 11 #72
at140 Jan 11 #85
IronLionZion Jan 11 #86
Girard442 Jan 11 #18
3_Limes Jan 11 #19
The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 11 #54
spinbaby Jan 11 #20
ProudLib72 Jan 11 #24
Vinca Jan 11 #26
dalton99a Jan 11 #30
HubertHeaver Jan 11 #43
malaise Jan 11 #50
ProudLib72 Jan 11 #82
Vinca Jan 11 #25
Crutchez_CuiBono Jan 11 #29
Vinca Jan 11 #32
Crutchez_CuiBono Jan 11 #33
marlakay Jan 11 #40
HubertHeaver Jan 11 #51
erronis Jan 11 #71
Hekate Jan 11 #34
malaise Jan 11 #37
HipChick Jan 11 #38
malaise Jan 11 #39
HipChick Jan 11 #62
malaise Jan 11 #65
LittleGirl Jan 11 #42
getagrip_already Jan 11 #48
malaise Jan 11 #55
Javaman Jan 11 #49
louis-t Jan 11 #52
MissB Jan 11 #57
The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 11 #63
Hamlette Jan 11 #58
malaise Jan 11 #59
cagefreesoylentgreen Jan 11 #78
Downtown Hound Jan 11 #61
debsy Jan 11 #66
malaise Jan 11 #67
not fooled Jan 11 #73
debsy Jan 11 #80
bluevoter4life Jan 11 #75
malaise Jan 11 #76
bluevoter4life Jan 11 #77
Heartstrings Jan 11 #81

Response to malaise (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:10 PM

1. Vlad must be loving this.

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Response to Zoonart (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:12 PM

3. I have a nephew who is caught up in this mess

He's not an Air Traffic Controller

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Response to malaise (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:17 PM

7. Me too...

my niece is an IT specialist for IRS. There is going to be epic cleanup on that isle!

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Response to malaise (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 02:50 PM

53. My son is an Air Traffic Controller

This shutdown is taking a huge toll. He says they still haven't completely recovered from the last shutdown which affected their training program, often leaving them short-handed. In the meantime, each year many controllers are retiring, but there aren't enough qualified trained controllers to replace all of them.

This shutdown is causing serious safety concerns for air travel.

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #53)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 02:56 PM

56. It's so unfair - they have enough stress as Air Traffic Controllers

The first near miss will close every airport.

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Response to malaise (Reply #56)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:04 PM

60. Yes, it really is stressful

Being responsible for so many lives every day takes its toll. The training program is necessarily intense and brutal and quite a few wash out. It takes a long time to actually be qualified to work without constant supervision and right now, more controllers could be retiring than are successfully completing their training. This just adds additional stress for those who are working shorthanded and without pay.

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Response to Zoonart (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:22 PM

13. seriously, him and Mogilevich and Deripaska and whoever else must be laughing their asses off

As Vlad recently commented publicly, with respect to the destruction of the U.S., "it's almost done!"

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Response to Zoonart (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:26 PM

16. Yes, the russians are messing up America big time with republican help

deplorable that KGOP republican Comrade Dirty Donny* is allowed to get away with promoting putin's ongoing plans to piss on the USA.

* aka republican Draft-dodger-in-Chief

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Response to Zoonart (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:41 PM

22. I'm normally against war 100%.

But I wouldn't mind seeing Putin and his troll army bombed back to the stone ages.

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Response to Initech (Reply #22)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:47 PM

27. War is the last straw, but, we're running out of straws.

russia is certainly war'ing on us. But, his 'american(are they really?) comrades'...are just fine w it. (Small letters on purpose.)

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Response to Initech (Reply #22)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 02:29 PM

41. War is not possible when your enemy controls 2/3rds of your government. nt

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Response to mastermind (Reply #41)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 02:42 PM

45. NAILED IT!

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Response to mastermind (Reply #41)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 02:46 PM

47. And the minority enemy thinks they own majority control of the government.

And thinks it is rightfully, god given theirs for the taking. That is another problem entirely!

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Response to Initech (Reply #47)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:16 PM

68. It's slightly amusing that the (R)s think they can "profit" from destroying the country.

Sure, they've already pocketed quite a few roubles and have carefully moved much to untraceable (they think) and offshore accounts.

They'll be unpleasantly surprised when Uncle Vlad impales them on skewers for a barbecue after the dismantlement of the US has completed. Of course, the North American continent may not be livable for several decades while the dust settles and the half-lives kick in.

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Response to mastermind (Reply #41)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:23 PM

70. Make that 5/6ths

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Response to mastermind (Reply #41)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 06:09 PM

84. tRump

is probably letting the Russians come right in. All of government agencies are being gutted. This was Putin's plan, and then their are traitors in our own government who are involved.

I really don't know how this is going to end but there's going to be ripple effect on all of us.

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Response to Initech (Reply #22)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 04:00 PM

79. the war is over; America lost. Somebody might retaliate, but that's why we're so paralyzed

They got their guy in the highest office in the land. That's a fucking win in my book.

The U.S. expended so many resources building up conventional military power for decades, and then gets completely fucked up by cyber-attacks, espionage, and social engineering. It's hilarious really, if it weren't the world we have to live in.

Any retaliation should be in kind, at any rate. I have nothing against the people of Russia; we are, at this point (at least those of us who don't like the situation) brothers and sisters in resistance. I just hope we can collectively make something livable out of whatever comes out at the end of this current debacle.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:12 PM

2. Airlines are BIG MONEY....

this is when things improve....hitting corporate profits...and heaven forbid we have a major airline crash....plus, a winter storm is coming...

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Response to FarPoint (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:13 PM

4. Yep

This shit will be stopped now

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:13 PM

5. Meanwhile, long lines inside the terminals

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:14 PM

6. The TSA folks are also pissed

Madness

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:17 PM

8. The cruelty is the point - as is the chaos.

 

This is a feature, not a bug.

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Response to TSheehan (Reply #8)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:19 PM

10. Well he has a history of not paying people who have worked for him

I think the power trip is as important as the cruelty. He is vile.

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Response to malaise (Reply #10)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:54 PM

31. Chaos, cruelty, power trip, wickedness....

Such glowing and admirable traits one desires in their CiC.

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Response to sprinkleeninow (Reply #31)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:59 PM

35. And that's the tip of this iceberg

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Response to malaise (Reply #35)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 02:07 PM

36. Exactly correct!



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Response to malaise (Reply #10)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:18 PM

69. And putine will reneg on his agreement with dump and turtle and all the rest.

No need to pay up when you already own the assets.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:17 PM

9. K & R ... + 1,000,000

HOW SHAMEFUL when the repukes mess with our SAFETY. But then again, we're waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay past shocked with these cowardly grifters. Period.

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Response to MFGsunny (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:20 PM

11. Just wait for the first accident or near miss

It's his shutdown

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:21 PM

12. Another one who is laughing his ass off ...




"Call ME Rocket Man will you?"


?w=620


"BWAHAHAHAHA"



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Response to lpbk2713 (Reply #12)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:22 PM

14. That Putin was able to buy off the ReTHUG party is no laughing matter

It is fucking treason

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Response to malaise (Reply #14)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:25 PM

15. it's pretty funny...

if you're Putin.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:33 PM

17. How long before people start quitting because they're not getting paid?

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #17)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:39 PM

21. 3 paychecks from anarchy?

If not sooner.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #21)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:42 PM

23. I say one more because Januaru is always a rough month

because of Christmas

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #21)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:38 PM

74. End of the month.

The real desperation starts this weekend with the lower scale Federal employees and Contractors.

Especially hard hit were those expecting no problems with a CR being passed and who paid for a happy family Christmas back in December that either emptied their savings, stretched their credit cards to the limit, or cut into the first week of January's budget.

I know several families that in the past would have (inadvisably) been planning wait until the 10th when most mortgages and rent were due with the expectation that the direct deposit was going to be in their accounts yesterday or today just so they could pay a little extra so the grandparents could see and spoil the grandkids over the winter holiday, or even just to get a little treat over the holidays or New Years.

These employees will start getting their eviction notices or overdrafts/the first missed payment fees next week. If they had any savings left after the holidays, that would be gone before the weekend was over.

They, along with the employees who didn't push the envelope in December for the holidays, will also be unable to pay for critical utility or insurance bills that tend to come due around the second or third week of the month, which will result in the cut-off of services or coverage.

Most businesses have to operate like the Mob. If they're small businesses, they also have bills to pay and payroll to make, and while they might be able to waive a late fee, they can't waive a payment. If they're large corporations, the computers will be set up to automatically handle the payments - and computers have no pity, nor can they be bargained with.

Not many people can afford to just "lose" even the potential minimum Federal paycheck of around $1100 net at the beginning of a month. Most people would be hurting covering the basic bills and groceries with just $200 missing from a paycheck - $1100 lost is catastrophic.

The federal employees I work with couldn't afford to lose just one paycheck, even those who make 6 figures. Most don't have much more than a month's wages in savings this time of year, they were planning on backfilling Christmas with the tax return...

It will cascade horribly throughout a community, and even if the employees get paid back wages by Friday of next week, it's going to take them at least two/three months to recover financially.

Haele

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Response to haele (Reply #74)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 06:01 PM

83. It's going to be really tough for sure

The question is, When will they decide to do something drastic, like march on Washington or at least have sit ins in their representative's office? The other issue is what happens when those federal employees start taking other jobs, either completely leaving their federal job or at least putting it on hiatus. This is going to be catastrophic in the long term if it goes on another couple of weeks. Maybe that was the Rump's intention all along, to throw the entire nation into chaos (it was Putin's plan for sure).

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #17)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:49 PM

28. Please no bc...

they will be filled w trump sympathizers.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #17)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 02:41 PM

44. Didn't Reagan fire all ATC's once?

Where did they find replacements? It's been a long time, I can't recall the details.

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Response to at140 (Reply #44)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 02:45 PM

46. the ATCs went on strike

instead of negotiating with them, Reagan fired them AND banned them from ever holding a federal job again.

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Response to at140 (Reply #44)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:11 PM

64. Freepers are calling on Trump to fire them all

and pretending it is a strike and assuming the impacted workers are Democrats and easily replaceable. It's insane.

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #64)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:30 PM

72. And they are, seen it myself...nt

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #64)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 06:32 PM

85. Huh? It is a gov't shutdown, not a strike is what

I have been hearing. It is absolutely zero fault of federal employees.

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Response to at140 (Reply #85)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 10:43 PM

86. You try explaining that to knuckle dragging deplorables

Air Traffic Controllers, TSA, Coast Guard, Border Patrol, FBI, and many other workers have been working without pay for the last 3 weeks. Since their union is suing the Trump administration, Trump's supporters are online calling for mass firing and replacement.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:35 PM

18. Time to stop showing up to a knife fight armed with Roberts Rules of Order.

At some point, Federal employees have to stage work actions, even if they are illegal. If there's a fund to support strikers, I'm in.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:35 PM

19. Doesn't impact Individual 1, so I doubt he cares.


He can get on Air force 1 any time he wants. With no line.

Obviously this is just more 'fake news' in his world.

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Response to 3_Limes (Reply #19)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 02:54 PM

54. AF1 is controlled by civilian air traffic controllers just like all other airplanes

in US airspace. So if ATC isn't functioning, that very definitely would affect his weekend jaunts to Merde-a-Loco.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:38 PM

20. My son is flying home Wednesday

I’m just hoping the system holds together until he gets off his cross-country flight.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:43 PM

24. Cars! Big beautiful cars. Cars have wheels

Car wheels turn unless the car hits a wall. Who knows which came first, the wheel or the wall? Chicken or egg? I could go for some KFC right about now.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #24)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:44 PM

26. Mmmmm . . . bowels. Bet that's a big seller.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #24)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:53 PM

30. +1

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #30)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 02:40 PM

43. New name for the "Aztec Two-Step"?

"Sorry, I can't come in today. I've got a case of the border-bowels."

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #24)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 02:47 PM

50. LOL

You're a riot

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Response to malaise (Reply #50)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 05:54 PM

82. Notice that the "border" is already falling down?

I think that's an omen. Yes, I think our current administration uses KFC birds for augury... and then feeds the leftovers to the orange monster they keep in the basement.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:43 PM

25. People can't afford to work without pay. It's only a matter of time before a whole lot of necessary

people say "fuck it" and take a job in the private sector. Don is making a bigger mess of things than I ever thought possible. I knew it would be bad, but I had no idea . . .

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Response to Vinca (Reply #25)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:50 PM

29. Union busting and scab workers will soon follow.

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Response to Crutchez_CuiBono (Reply #29)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:56 PM

32. Possibly, but many of these positions require a high degree of specialized knowledge.

A scab might be able to pick up a shovel and dig a trench, but I really don't want them guiding passenger jets around the skies.

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Response to Vinca (Reply #32)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:57 PM

33. Totally agree. No. I don't think scabs should even

be trusted to drive a hand shovel. Let alone a specialized job. Knowledge isn't the threshold for gop lackies...loyalty is.

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Response to Vinca (Reply #32)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 02:16 PM

40. They thought they could do that

With Bart subway strike many years ago and ended up closing all trains for days. After that state of CA made it illegal for them to strike because all of bay area was a nightmare traffic wise.

Wonder if thats what they will do to the controllers? All i know is I wouldn’t want to be in a plane with a bunch of angry workers controlling it.

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Response to marlakay (Reply #40)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 02:47 PM

51. Rot-gut Ronnie fired the striking Air Traffic Controllers in the early '80's.

The R's loved him for it. Broke a very strong public-sector union.

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Response to Vinca (Reply #25)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:28 PM

71. Jobs in the private sector? Fuggetaboutit. All US sectors are going to hell once this really

kicks in.

The knock-on effects from many gov't wages being lost. The foreclosures on real-estate. The costs of homelessness and lack of medical care.

The lack of regulation at the federal level and increasingly at state and local levels as federal funds are withheld. The weakening of our military and readiness.

The breakdown of law-and-order with the FBI and other federal agencies clamping up, the coordination with state law enforcement.

Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid will be delayed and then discontinued.

Funds will be transferred to "national emergencies" and bank accounts out-of-the-country. US banks will close. Stock markets will crash.



Kidding! This is just a bad dream, right?

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:57 PM

34. Shutting down the federal government will bring the country to its knees. What a shambles.

What a disgusting and terrifying shambles.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #34)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 02:09 PM

37. Yep

and completely unnecessary

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 02:11 PM

38. Malaise, I am outside the US

sitting on the veranda,watching this mess, and in no hurry to get home

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Response to HipChick (Reply #38)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 02:16 PM

39. Chill sis Chill

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Response to malaise (Reply #39)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:10 PM

62. I did hear Miami airport was closing a terminal or two this weekend

to cope with lack of staff issues..

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 02:32 PM

42. Goddamn it, I have to fly to the states

in two weeks! This shutdown better be cleaned up and back to normal by then, because, damnit, I hate flying in the first place, without this nonsense.
Pay the damn workers and get the gov't running again.

Yes, I know I sound selfish but it's not supposed to be like this. This is bull shit.
We are the government, not IQ45!

Get back to work and do your damn jobs. People's lives depend on it.

fuck this shit.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 02:46 PM

48. I'm a consultant.. I travel almost every week....

If I can't travel, my company can't bill my time, and they don't keep people on the bench long term.

The airlines won't sell a ticket.

The shared van company won't get a round trip sale.

The rental car company won't sell several days a week rental.

The hotel won't sell 4-5 nights of accommodation.

Restaurants and grocery stores won't make those sales.

Clients won't get needed services.

This has a lot of ripple effects, and I'm just one of millions of business travelers a week.

Bye-Bye has a lot of meanings. Not all of them good.

When I flew back last night, I thanked the TSA screeners for showing up. They had pained looks on their faces.

Of course that airlines will likely step in and either pay them or hire contractors to fill in, but that will increase costs to the airlines.

People need to realize this is different than past shiutdowns though. In those shutdowns, if workers were essential, they got paid. It came out of emergency funds the agencies kept for this type of thing.

It's seems to be a conscious decision on the part of agency heads to not use their emergency funds for essential salaries. Who knows what they are doing with the money. It's there. It's always there.

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Response to getagrip_already (Reply #48)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 02:54 PM

55. Here we go - As shutdown keeps TSA screeners home, Miami's airport is closing off a terminal

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article224260800.html

With more federal security screeners refusing to work without pay, Miami International Airport plans to cut off access to one of its terminals over the weekend in order to send TSA workers to busier checkpoints, a spokesman said Thursday night.

Closing of the security checkpoint at Terminal G is set to begin at 1 p.m. Saturday, in what would be the 22nd day of a partial shutdown of the federal government. Federal screeners are calling in sick at double the normal rate for Miami, and TSA managers aren’t confident they will have enough workers to operate all 11 checkpoints at normal hours throughout the airport, said MIA spokesman Greg Chin.


“We felt we had to make a decision before the weekend,” Chin said. “They’re erring on the side of caution.”

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 02:46 PM

49. and when would be the best time to launch a cyber attack on the U.S.?

when no one is minding the store.

that's the terror that has been creeping up my spine since this whole fucking mess began.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 02:50 PM

52. But donnie dimwit will say "All passengers agree with me...

They want a wall, so they don't mind not being able to fly"

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 02:57 PM

57. I'm pretty sure one plane will fly

Airforce One.

But yeah, this should do him in.

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Response to MissB (Reply #57)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:10 PM

63. AF1 is controlled by civilian air traffic controllers just like all other airplanes.

It can't take off or land without an ATC clearance and it has to follow all in-flight instructions. As far as ATC is concerned it's no more important than your Uncle Fred's beat-up old Cessna 152.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 02:59 PM

58. TSA agents are required to work without pay during the shutdown

they are among the worst off. A slightly higher number have called in sick but not that many (3.8% vs 4.6%). TSA agents' pay is among the lowest of federal laws and I don't think they can get unemployment. I'm not sure about the 400,000 federal employees who are not required to report to work during the shutdown. They might be eligible for UI.

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Response to Hamlette (Reply #58)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:02 PM

59. Well Miami is already shutting down Terminal G

With more federal security screeners refusing to work without pay, Miami International Airport plans to cut off access to one of its terminals over the weekend in order to send TSA workers to busier checkpoints, a spokesman said Thursday night.

Closing of the security checkpoint at Terminal G is set to begin at 1 p.m. Saturday, in what would be the 22nd day of a partial shutdown of the federal government. Federal screeners are calling in sick at double the normal rate for Miami, and TSA managers aren’t confident they will have enough workers to operate all 11 checkpoints at normal hours throughout the airport, said MIA spokesman Greg Chin.

“We felt we had to make a decision before the weekend,” Chin said. “They’re erring on the side of caution.”

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article224260800.html

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Response to Hamlette (Reply #58)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:58 PM

78. Unemployment benefits depend upon which state you're in

I think Oregon is granting unemployment benefits, but those benefits have to paid back when/if the government reopens.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:07 PM

61. Well look on the bright side

The minute Trump's rural base realizes they can't get things delivered to them from Amazon in time and realize that they're actually stuck out in nowhere land without air delivery, that's when they'll really start to turn on Trump!

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:14 PM

66. They want chaos.

They can thrive on chaos. Watch carefully what is happening outside the Wall fiasco.

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Response to debsy (Reply #66)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:16 PM

67. +1,000

Watch the looting

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Response to debsy (Reply #66)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:33 PM

73. And of course

destroying the Federal government and its workforce. Destruction of the administrative state.

Goal of the orange turd's backers including mercer clan, fans of this agenda kook brothers, and their ilk.

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Response to not fooled (Reply #73)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 05:17 PM

80. yup. they are succeeding.

all under the guise of building a wall.

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:43 PM

75. As an air traffic controller, I wrote this and posted it on my FB

Apparently, according to some of my colleagues, it has gone somewhat viral in our circles. This is what we deal with. DISCLAIMER: other than the 10,000 I quoted below, the numbers may not be entirely accurate, and were used to highlight the point.




For those that don't quite understand the implications this (or any) shutdown this has on essential services, allow me to paint a picture for you (WARNING: Long Post)

I work for the FAA as an Air Traffic Controller. I am deemed "essential" during both times of shutdowns and national emergencies. Right now, I am currently working but not getting paid for my services. What does this mean for you, the American taxpayer?

First and foremost, it means I have to put everything on credit and work with my creditors to delay payment, etc. until the main characters of this badly-written tragedy realize they love each other and skip into the sunset holding hands singing Kumbya. That's just the personal consequences of a shutdown.

Second, I work in a critically understaffed profession. There are just over 10,000 Certified Professional Controllers (CPC) nationwide, plus several hundred more in various stages of training. To make the numbers nice and easy to work with, we'll round the overall controller ranks to 11,000.

Of these 11,000 controllers, roughly 1/3 of them are eligible to retire right now, so that means about 3,600 can walk out the door today. That would dwindle our numbers to to 7,400 NATIONWIDE.

Now, that's just among those that are already working in the FAA.

Let's look at the hiring practices of the Agency for a second. We'll assume that the FAA is authorized to hire 1,500 controllers this fiscal year. Already, they are unable to make up for the 3,600 that are eligible to retire. Keep in mind we have MANDATORY retirement when we hit age 56. Among those 1,500, we will assume that 50% will wash out of the Academy. That leaves 750. Among those that do make it, we will assume that 30% will fail training at their first facility. That leaves 525 controllers out of 1,500. That means 2/3 of those hired are already gone. This still puts us at a deficit of about 3,100 controllers. That is using current numbers. So while the FAA may have "met" their hiring goal on paper, the number of training failures quickly begins to mount and the true numbers become more bleak. The reality is this profession demands about 12,000-14,000 to operate effectively and efficiently.

When a shutdown occurs, many of those that are eligible to retire decide they are tired of the government using them as pawns in a sick game. They decide to pull the plug, and at a higher rate than just a "normal" retirement cycle. This doesn't include those who may not be eligible to retire, but are thinking about leaving the profession to secure a more stable job in the private sector. At the same time, the Academy is shut down and those that are trying to become controllers are literally sent home with the promise of "eventually" resuming their training. The FAA (i.e. the taxpayers) pays those expenses. If the shutdown goes on long-term, the FAA must start their training from the very beginning, which creates a backlog for additional classes and they end up in a perpetual cycle of chronic understaffing. In addition, the FAA (again, the taxpayers) must spend additional money to fly those students BACK to the Academy, plus per diem and housing expenses. In reality, shutdowns do nothing to save the government money and end up costing taxpayers MUCH more.

Understaffed facilities inevitably lead to delays. A supervisor is unable to split a busy sector because there is nobody available to assign it to. As a result, the lone controller becomes overwhelmed and is forced to reduce services until they can catch themselves up. A tower controller working an arrival push by himself because his relief called in sick that day and the next one won't be in for another hour, is forced to hold your flight outside the airspace until traffic is at such a level he can bring you in safely. Because your flight is circling outside Tower's airspace, the radar controller is forced to work that much harder, which mean's you friend's flight may be delayed, which can change the dynamic of the vacation you spent a year planning. Every last one of these events sets off a chain reaction elsewhere in the system. Oh, and did I mention that both of these controllers are being forced to work the maximum 10 hours a day, on their 6th day because the staffing shortages are leading to mandatory overtime? Oh, and their family vacations and much-deserved time-off has been cancelled because the staffing shortages have led to all Leave being denied, and perhaps most dangerously of all, the controllers are fatigued.

I am only speaking about the Agency I work for, but this can be used as a snapshot as to what is ocurring government-wide. Every shutdown has real effects on real people, both on the front-lines, and to many behind the scenes, including the flying public. Eventually, the uncertainty of our next paycheck and the will to simply survive off what little money a controller might have left will cloud their judgement and cripple their ability to perform their job safely. Shutdowns hurt EVERYONE and they must end NOW!

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Response to bluevoter4life (Reply #75)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:48 PM

76. You should repost this as an OP

Thank you for this post.

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Response to malaise (Reply #76)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:49 PM

77. Great idea. Posting now

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Response to malaise (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 05:37 PM

81. Vacation flights booked for 2-11 out of O'Hare....

This is all bullshit!

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