HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » So, AOC should sit and li...

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 03:27 PM

So, AOC should sit and listen to leaders who have voted for tax cuts for the rich, voted for the

Iraq War Resolution, allowed Bush's people to steal the vote in FLA in 2000, allowed Mitch McConnell to deny Obama a SCOTUS seat, didn't fight for the Public Option, and finally, lost elections to W and Trump. That's the leadership that she should sit and listen to?

And before my post gets alerted, I am separating out Congressional Democrats from the rank and file Democrats. Also, not all Congressional Democratic leaders did everything on my list, but some did some of these things.

My point here is that Democratic Congressional leaders are not above criticism or challenge, and no ELECTED member should have to sit and listen to them esp. given their spotty record of leadership.

47 replies, 1462 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 47 replies Author Time Post
Reply So, AOC should sit and listen to leaders who have voted for tax cuts for the rich, voted for the (Original post)
Yavin4 Jan 8 OP
pwb Jan 8 #1
shanny Jan 8 #23
edhopper Jan 8 #2
EffieBlack Jan 8 #3
Cuthbert Allgood Jan 8 #4
progressoid Jan 8 #15
KG Jan 8 #5
JCanete Jan 8 #8
Voltaire2 Jan 8 #10
Autumn Jan 8 #16
Eliot Rosewater Jan 8 #27
patty_bateman Jan 8 #28
marble falls Jan 9 #42
Post removed Jan 9 #38
EffieBlack Jan 9 #39
FiveGoodMen Jan 8 #26
edhopper Jan 8 #33
FiveGoodMen Jan 8 #34
edhopper Jan 8 #37
ehrnst Jan 9 #41
still_one Jan 8 #6
zipplewrath Jan 8 #12
still_one Jan 8 #17
zipplewrath Jan 8 #18
still_one Jan 8 #21
Voltaire2 Jan 8 #14
zipplewrath Jan 8 #19
Voltaire2 Jan 8 #31
still_one Jan 8 #20
Voltaire2 Jan 8 #30
shanny Jan 8 #29
WeekiWater Jan 8 #7
zipplewrath Jan 8 #13
Wellstone ruled Jan 8 #9
Autumn Jan 8 #11
ehrnst Jan 9 #43
still_one Jan 8 #22
Bilegurken Jan 8 #24
JudyM Jan 8 #35
IronLionZion Jan 8 #25
Renew Deal Jan 8 #32
ehrnst Jan 9 #45
jrandom421 Jan 8 #36
ehrnst Jan 9 #44
disillusioned73 Jan 9 #40
Autumn Jan 9 #46
jrandom421 Monday #47

Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 03:36 PM

1. These young Democrats are changing our party back to where it should be.

Aggressive, brave and tough. Our wussy days are over.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pwb (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 06:15 PM

23. Yes they are--praise Dawg!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 03:40 PM

2. I think the implication was to listen to

DEMOCRATIC Leaders. Maybe learn how Congress works from those who have been there. Like Pelosi and Waters.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to edhopper (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 03:44 PM

3. I sure hope that, unlike her fans, AOC

doesn't believe that she is the first and only true progressive in politics.

I suspect she's much smarter, more grounded and far less presumptuous than some of her more zealous acolytes - and has enough common sense and savvy not to let them goad her into making a fool of herself.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to EffieBlack (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 03:45 PM

4. Who's saying that?

That sounds silly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 04:04 PM

15. Quite silly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to EffieBlack (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 03:46 PM

5. I lulz'd

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to EffieBlack (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 03:53 PM

8. broad accussatory brush of her fans. But focusing on the positive, I'll say I appreciate that


you are saying AOC is smart and saavy, and its nice to have some common ground. As to whoever these fans are who think she's the first progressive in politics....maybe neophytes to politics who's window into it is AOC but, that's hardly the lion's share of her fans.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to EffieBlack (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 03:55 PM

10. Links to anyone making that argument please.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 04:08 PM

16. Links will not be forthcoming, I'm waiting for the links about all the things Dem leadership

did to get AOC elected.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to EffieBlack (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 06:24 PM

27. I am unable to converse in these threads because I know what is happening

I know why and I know what is going to happen because I learn from history.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #27)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 06:29 PM

28. Me too

I'm right there with you, Eliot.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #27)

Wed Jan 9, 2019, 10:23 AM

42. So many productive things to be working on, like those thin margined seats we just won ...

and those too few seats in the Senate we need to take in 2020. But some of us just need to fight over different styles to reach common goals to the ultimate detriment of our goals.

Frustrating. Deja vu all over again.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to EffieBlack (Reply #3)


Response to Post removed (Reply #38)

Wed Jan 9, 2019, 10:13 AM

39. Thanks for providing a perfect illistration of how the

"You didn't say, 'Oh my GOD! She's so AWESOME in every way!!!' so you don't like her" defense works.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to edhopper (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 06:21 PM

26. And I think it was DEMOCRATIC leaders to which the OP was referring.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FiveGoodMen (Reply #26)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 07:18 PM

33. Pelosi did not vote for

any of those things listed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to edhopper (Reply #33)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 07:49 PM

34. Pelosi is not the whole party

And she did give Dubya a pass.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FiveGoodMen (Reply #34)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 08:28 PM

37. So now we are attacking

any Dem right of AOC?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to edhopper (Reply #37)

Wed Jan 9, 2019, 10:20 AM

41. Appears so. Even 1/8" because diversity in approach to legislation is now very bad.

"Corporate," even.

It's not like Democrats are the party of diversity and free thought or anything.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 03:47 PM

6. Please tell me what should have been done in 2000 after the SC made its ruling?

Please tell me what should have been done when the Senate was controlled by republicans, and that majority refused to bring up President Obama’s SC nominee for a hearing?

Please tell me when supposedly self-identified progressives refused to vote for the Democratic nominee in 2016 because they were duped by the Jill Steins, Susan Sarandons, Cornell West’s, etc. that there was no difference between republicans and Democrats, and the SC didn’t matter, the same bullshit Ralph Nader used, and they did contribute to who we now have in the WH, not only have no regrets for not voting for the Democratic nominee in 2016, but seem to want to cast blame on those damn establishment Democrats who gave us Medicare, Medicaid, the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, SC justices such as Ruth Bader Ginsberg, etc., when perhaps if they want to cast blame p they should just look in the mirror

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to still_one (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 04:00 PM

12. The usual assertions

Much like Schumer is suggesting right now with the shutdown, the suggestion was that the democrats should have prevented any business from occurring until the nominee got a hearing. Not sure that works but....

Not sure what the second paragraph has to do with the OP, since I don't think either the leadership, or the new members did any of those things. And the current leadership didn't "give" us any of the things you list. Those go back to the days of the great society (save Ginsberg, and not many of them were around for that either) and none of the current leadership were around at the time. Truth is, the new members are basically advocating going BACK to those issues. Heck, they want to go back all the way to FDR in many ways when we advocated for universal healthcare coverage and guaranteed incomes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zipplewrath (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 04:55 PM

17. The second paragrahph has nothing to do with the OP, nor the new members. However, LBJ and Bill

Clinton were establishment Democrats, and the argument that there is no difference between Democrats or republicans, "because of the establishment Democrats" is BS. President Obama was considered an establishment Democrat. During the ACA discussions he was being trashed from both the left and the right. The left said he didn't give us Medicare for All, ignoring the fact that the votes weren't there. The blue dog Democrats made it very clear they would not vote for that. It was a question of getting something or nothing. The right viewed it as "socialism", which was untrue, but that did not matter, NOT one republican voted for it. So he did what he needed to do to at least get something through.

Dianne Feinstein was/is considered an establishment Democrat, in spite of her liberal record, gun control, women's rights, gay rights, civil rights, the environment, etc. Same with Nancy Pelosi, and I can go on.


While it is proper and healthy to critisize Democrats on specific issues, to broad brush "establishment" Democrats as the cause of all problems in the Democratic party, is disingenuous and dishonest.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to still_one (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 05:00 PM

18. Who said anything about establishment democrats?

The OP, and AOC's comments were about the current leadership.

Talk about thread drift.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zipplewrath (Reply #18)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 05:44 PM

21. My view is that it is implied, and you have every right to critisize me for assuming that, but that

is my suspicion


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to still_one (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 04:04 PM

14. Congress should have rejected the results.

Florida’s votes should have been rejected.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 05:02 PM

19. You mean the GOP controlled congress

The way the system worked, the GOP had the votes. I agree that it still should have been challenged, but both in Florida and in Congress, the GOP, because of gerrymandering, had to votes to prevent any successful challenge.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zipplewrath (Reply #19)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 06:42 PM

31. That is a related issue.

Our party’s unwillingness to stand on principle for fear of losing has made us look weak indecisive and unprincipled.

Sometimes you have to do the right thing regardless of the shot term consequences.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 05:15 PM

20. No, Congress could NOT over-rule the SC decision.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to still_one (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 06:39 PM

30. Oh they most certainly could have.

The SC decision had nothing to do with the constitutional process where congress certifies each states electoral college results.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to still_one (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 06:32 PM

29. Multiple members of the House black caucus

disputed the certification of the results from Florida in 2000 (this was after the SC ruling that not all votes be counted) and asked that that delegation not be seated, alleging disenfranchisement of black people. ONE Senator doing the same thing (all in writing) would have been required for that formal objection to be considered. What would have happened after that I don't know but not one Senator could be found. Not even Gore.

How many times since then have we seen that kind of BS pursued by the Republican Party, and met with lawsuits after the fact, if at all? How might recent history have been different? Clearly unknowable, but I doubt if it would have had no effect whatever.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 03:48 PM

7. It all falls apart right here.

“Also, not all Congressional Democratic leaders did everything on my list, but some did some of these things.“

That negates the screed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WeekiWater (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 04:01 PM

13. All did some

I suspect the OP meant to say "all did some". But I guess.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 03:55 PM

9. Funny thing,

we had a new Senator,white male,from the great state of Minnesota who did the same thing as Ms. Cortes,and yes every friggin media company went nuts. Bottom line,they can not handle change.

Sun Light exposes the rot.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 03:58 PM

11. Fuck that sit and listen shit. I'm going to listen to her shouting from the rooftops

because she isn't sitting and doing nothing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Autumn (Reply #11)

Wed Jan 9, 2019, 10:48 AM

43. I understand that there is a lot to learn about being a legislator.

It's the first month of the job.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 05:47 PM

22. What do you mean by rank and file Democrats?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 06:19 PM

24. The old guard certainly hasn't done the

party any favors over the last few decades of milquetoast-y compromises, dragging the party rightward and betraying the spirit of the New Deal with corporatism.

The younger generation is fed up with world their elders have created for them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bilegurken (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 08:03 PM

35. Welcome to DU, Bilegurken.

You said a lot in few words. We need more people like you on the front lines.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 06:20 PM

25. I just hope no one here sits and listens to the bloviating gasbag on TV tonight

And I'm not convinced our party lost the election to Trump.

It would be good to learn from other people's mistakes though. We could be a stronger party going forward if we admit what didn't work for us in recent times.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 06:57 PM

32. I think we all need to listen a bit more

“Listening” and adhering to advice are different things. Also, learning from others mistakes is the most valuable lesson.

The promise of the new generation of Democrats is the “we call BS” attitude when it comes to RW lies. Hopefully they have a vision and get us past the political barriers of the past.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Renew Deal (Reply #32)

Wed Jan 9, 2019, 10:56 AM

45. Indeed. (nt)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2019, 08:21 PM

36. I want to see how she handles being in the House

I have no doubt that she can ask the sharply pointed questions as part of an investigative committee. But that's only half the job. How well does she legislate?


I want to see:

-how well she turns her ideas into a bill
-how she presents to the relevant committee
-how she wins over the committee members so they move her bill to the Floor
-how well she gains co-sponsors and allies for the bill.
-how well she deals with debate on the bill on the Floor
-how she deals with amendments that are offered to the bill
-how well she whips and counts votes for her bill

Finally, I want to see how well she negotiates in the conference committee to reconcile a different Senate version of "her" bill and how well and fast she learns to get things done in Congress.


I have no idea how well she can do all that, so I'll wait and see. Because if she can't turn her ideas into legislation, she's in the wrong place.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jrandom421 (Reply #36)

Wed Jan 9, 2019, 10:55 AM

44. +1000. There are many other progressive jobs where interviews and public speaking is the main task.

Progressive NGO's are a great place for an activist who is most at home on camera and social media.

Legislating is mostly administrative and managerial, because legislation needs to be very specific in it's communication to the intended audience, which are lawmakers, lawyers, and judges. Legislation has to cross reference any other legislation that it might impact, and there is a process by which a committee develops it for markup by others.

Someone who feels that's not where there interests or skills are wouldn't do well as a legislator.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2019, 10:14 AM

40. K&R..

spot on..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2019, 11:01 AM

46. The best thing AOC can do is listen to her instincts and keep talking about what needs to be done.

Let others sit down and be silent.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Autumn (Reply #46)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 12:40 PM

47. So Where's her

Bill on the New Green Deal? And why hasn't she presented to the Energy and Commerce committee?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread