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Mon Jan 7, 2019, 12:42 PM

If you believe that climate change is an existential threat to humanity on this planet...

then a 70% top marginal rate, the end of fossil fuels, and green new jobs are very small prices to pay.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2019, 12:47 PM

1. It would SEEM not, but that's based on the supposition that 'fossil fuels' can be replaced

By far more carbon neutral energy sources ... whilst maintaining something REMOTELY APPROACHING the standard of living we currently enjoy ... as a result of their exclusive utilization.

Which is a FAR, FAR from 'proven supposition' ... at this juncture.

Just sayin' ...

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Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 7, 2019, 01:02 PM

3. Look in Europe. It is NOT far from proven. nt

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Reply #3)

Mon Jan 7, 2019, 01:48 PM

4. Dude, yeah it is ...

The production from the electrical grid at a given moment is a small portion of total energy usage overall.

You also have to calculate how much initial fossil energy it took to create all the new 'fossil free' electrical grid components (turbines, solar cells, batteries, etc), how much fossil energy it took to deliver them all their locations (planes, trains, ships, semi-trucks, etc), how much petrol did the workers use to drive to where these items were installed, how much petrol and other fossil energy will be used to maintain them, etc, etc.

You think China didn't burn a ton of coal to MAKE those solar panels they're using in Germany or France or wherever you're talking about? You think plenty of diesel wasn't burned on ships and in semi-trucks to deliver to Germany? You think every home and factory in Germany is heated or powered with Electricity, not natural gas? And that there's no petrol-driven cars and diesel trucks there? You think the goods in the shops didn't arrive there on diesel-powered ships, and get transported to the shops in diesel-powered trucks? Think all the groceries in the grocery stores were produced with 'renewable energy', in all their sources, all over the world?

Fact is, nothing is actually 'renewable' in the way that people like to imagine that it is, quite frankly. There's ALWAYS fossil fuel-stocks involved all throughout the processes as they exist today.

And do you have any idea how much fossil fuel would be required to retro-fit all the worlds planes, trains, container ships, semi-trucks, harvesters, tractors, backhoes, and automobiles ... to all run on 'renewable' electricity? And THEN to produce the needed solar panels and wind turbines and batteries to POWER all of them? A freaking STAGGERING AMOUNT. And then when you consider their needed maintainance, battery replacement, etc?

It's not even REMOTELY proven this can be done ... in a way that doesn't turn out, in the end, to require MORE fossil energy.

No offense, but you're mistaken if you think anything of the sort is 'proven'.

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Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 7, 2019, 01:53 PM

6. You'll then provide us with the objective numbers and cost/benefit analysis?

"And do you have any idea how much fossil fuel would be required to retro-fit all the worlds planes, etc. ... to all run on 'renewable' electricity? "

You'll then provide us with the objective numbers and cost/benefit analysis, with initial capital and energy outlay versus the 5, 10 and 30 year analysis projections, yes?

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #6)

Mon Jan 7, 2019, 01:56 PM

8. Someone else claimed 'it's proven' ... I'm saying ... nope it isn't.

Ergo, the burden of 'proof' ... is not on me.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2019, 12:50 PM

2. Also comprehensive sex education, easily accessed contraception and abortion services,

education of girls, and autonomy of women. All of these things slow birth rates, but without an onerous top-down mandate like China's one child policy.

Per person resource usage is one critical variable. Another is population size.

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Response to RockRaven (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 7, 2019, 01:51 PM

5. Excellent point ... population reduction is the only practical solution to climate change ...

Sad in many ways, but true.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2019, 01:54 PM

7. It's too late

Best thing to do now is start preparing for changes in weather and rising sea levels.

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Response to Mosby (Reply #7)

Mon Jan 7, 2019, 02:41 PM

9. That too will necessitate a major hike in taxes

Probably a lot more than a 70% top marginal rate.

My overall point is if you accept the findings that climate change represents an existential threat to humanity, either prevention of it from happening or adjusting to its effects, will require radical change. Recycling plastic bottles is not going to get it done.

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Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2019, 03:02 PM

10. Climate change is here and won't be stopped and maybe not even slowed.

There is no monolithic, same-think humanity that is prepared to battle a common foe. Most people in the world are worried the most about what will happen next week, next month, or next year and they will look out for their own best self interests in that time frame.
There are billions in India and China where it's taken many decades to get where they are now where they can have and enjoy what the U.S. has had and enjoyed for so long and they're not going to take hearing,
"Too bad, so sad, but's it's too late for you to have the same share of the pie as we've had" to which I'm sure they'd reply, "Screw that!"

The sad thing is that there will not even be adequate preparation for the negative consequences of global climate change.

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