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Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:47 PM

 

Brief bit on Flynn/Uniform Military Code & Article 134 is mentioned. ??

I'm trying to find some solid info on how the Military may handle Gen Flynn.


This is all I have so far. And I'm not at all versed in military code. Perhaps someone here is.
What is Article 134?

Article 134: General Article. This article of the Uniform Code of Military Justice is a catch-all for offenses that are not spelled out elsewhere. It covers all conduct that could bring discredit upon the armed forces that are not capital offenses. It allows them to be brought to court-martial.Dec 12, 2017

If anyone here is military or has more finding on this subject I'd appreciate your input.
Thank you.





Here is the twitter link for further discussion on this topic.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ericgarland/status/1075073856849747969

21 replies, 688 views

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Reply Brief bit on Flynn/Uniform Military Code & Article 134 is mentioned. ?? (Original post)
PhrankT Dec 18 OP
PhrankT Dec 18 #1
2naSalit Dec 18 #18
maxrandb Dec 18 #2
PhrankT Dec 18 #3
cynatnite Dec 18 #7
maxrandb Dec 18 #11
cynatnite Dec 18 #15
ooky Dec 18 #4
pecosbob Dec 18 #5
PhrankT Dec 18 #6
cynatnite Dec 18 #8
pecosbob Dec 18 #9
cynatnite Dec 18 #10
maxrandb Dec 18 #13
pecosbob Dec 18 #14
qazplm135 Dec 18 #20
The Polack MSgt Dec 18 #12
pecosbob Dec 18 #16
The Polack MSgt Dec 18 #17
qazplm135 Dec 18 #19
jmowreader Dec 18 #21

Response to PhrankT (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 03:04 PM

1. Maybe Article 134 isn't it. Maybe this is more appropriate

 

U.S. Code Title 18 Part I Chapter 115 2381
18 U.S. Code 2381 - Treason
US Code

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 807; Pub. L. 103322, title XXXIII,  330016(2)(J), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2381


Maybe its a good thing DU isn't handing him his fate.
He'd be on his way to Leavenworth by now.

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Response to PhrankT (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 04:12 PM

18. Pffft! He'd already be there! ...nt

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Response to PhrankT (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 03:05 PM

2. I've seen veterans stripped of their retirement for less

this fuckers pension and honorable discharge characterization of service better be on the fucking chopping block.

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Response to maxrandb (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 03:08 PM

3. That is exactly how I feel. He cannot be allowed to set the example for all service members by

 

getting any pass at all.

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Response to maxrandb (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 03:16 PM

7. Can you give examples?

I'm only aware of a few. One of those was a retired vet who was a convicted pedophile. He was stripped of all his benefits before imprisonment.

My understanding is that it's rare.

They can have their retirement rank diminished, get a cut in pension. That's still uncommon.

It's likely Flynn will retain his retirement rank and honorable discharge. His retirement activities does not affect his military benefits. Now, if they found misconduct during his time active duty, then it's very possible his benefits would be impacted.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 03:32 PM

11. I should clarify

I was thinking of Sailors that were past the 20 year mark that would get busted for positive urinalysis or some sort of misappropriation of funds and such.

They made mistakes and violated the UCMJ and were busted and not allowed to retire.

It's doable, but to get this retired general, the Army would have to bring him back and Court Martial him...I argue that they should based on his crimes. We shouldn't have a treasonous bastard walking around with full 3 Star status. His actions definitely meet the standard for conduct unbecoming an officer, and the Army in particular has regs that say you are still subject to the UCMJ even in retirement.

There is also the Hiss Act that strips retirement from government officials for violations impacting national security.

Bottom line is that it would be difficult to do, but our justice department and military justice needs to stop just going after the easy cases.

If justice had done their job and convicted Donnie Short Fingers and his entire fucking family for the obvious fraud, tax evasion, money laundering and all the other obvious shit a first year law student could see from a mile away, the fucktwits would have been in prison 20 years ago vice being in the White House today.

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Response to maxrandb (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 03:38 PM

15. The fact is Flynn committed his crimes after retiring...

The UCMJ is not going to pursue it or threaten his benefits.

Now, if it became known that he was pulling this crap while active duty, the entire ball game changes. There would be a substantial risk.

If the UCMJ started going after retirees for committing crimes...well, that's a Pandora's box I wouldn't want to touch. Not only that, the UCMJ has their hands full enough without adding retirees to their job description.

The civilian courts will handle it.

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Response to PhrankT (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 03:09 PM

4. If I remember my UCMJ training correctly (which was a long time ago)

any active duty member of the armed forces can be disciplined under the UCMJ in addition to actions taken by civil courts. The general article is a catch all article. So yeah, he could be court martialed and receive a military sentence in addition to the civil punishment he receives.

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Response to PhrankT (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 03:09 PM

5. I don't see the required elements for a treason charge

The UCMJ has much lower standards of proof. I'm a veteran but not a legal type. I'm fairly certain he could be brought up on a number of charges the least of which is Article 133 Conduct unbecoming an officer and gentleman. Lying to the FBI alone would satisfy those requirements.

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Response to pecosbob (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 03:15 PM

6. Thanks. I want him taken down one way or another. Civilian court or Military

 

He cannot walk from this betrayal

Artical 133 certainly fits.

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Response to PhrankT (Reply #6)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 03:17 PM

8. Even if it fits, it's highly unlikely to happen...

The best opportunity for him to pay for his crimes is in the civilian world.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 03:22 PM

9. I think that very much depends on military 'politics'

I don't think 'they' have any specific obligation to file charges against him. I wonder what current opinions of the man's actions are within the upper echelons...

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Response to pecosbob (Reply #9)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 03:26 PM

10. It doesn't matter what the opinions are...

They can hate and be disgusted by Flynn's actions enough to call him a traitor.

His crimes were committed while out of uniform. That's where they will draw the line and they'll let the civilian courts handle it.

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Response to pecosbob (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 03:36 PM

13. The Army would have to recall him and Court Martial him

It rarely happens, but in this case they should.

This dickwad walking around with full 3-Star Flag Officer status is a fucking insult to the entire fucking Army.

If ever a message needed to be sent... it's in this case.

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Response to maxrandb (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 03:37 PM

14. I agree one hundred percent

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Response to pecosbob (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 04:13 PM

20. The UCMJ does not have lower standards of proof

there is only one standard of proof for guilt or innocence at trial, beyond reasonable doubt, just like a civilian trial.

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Response to PhrankT (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 03:34 PM

12. The Army Judge Advocates General office can review the character of Flynn's service

And make recommendations to the DOA and DOD for their action.

The Army called back a General Officer to attempt to Court Martial him for sexually abusing his daughter, but it was disallowed because of the statute of limitations. That General is currently awaiting trial in VA which has no statute of limitations for rape.
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2018/12/10/retired-army-2-star-arrested-in-virginia-on-rape-incest-charges-that-were-dismissed-by-military-judge/

So it is possible for him to be recalled to face Judicial or Non-Judicial Punishment.

Short of that - it is also possible for the Army to decide that his service after a specific time was not honorable and roll back his retirement benefits to the last honorable term of service.

For example, If they find he began working as a foreign Agent as a Major General but decide that they could not successfully Court Martial him for this offence, they may administratively reduce his retirement to a Brigadier or Colonel's rate.

But I wouldn't get excited -The DOD almost never goes after of people who commit crimes after they retire - UNLESS it can be proven that criminal activity occurred while in the Service.

I know a Senior NCO serving time for distributing Meth that is banking his $42k pension for the 3 years he sits - He was an asshole when I knew him, but he didn't become a felon until after he popped smoke

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Response to The Polack MSgt (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 03:40 PM

16. Thanx...my brain's a bit rusty thirty + years after separation

but I thought it had much to do with political will.

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Response to pecosbob (Reply #16)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 03:48 PM

17. When you're talking about Flag/General Officers, politics always plays a role

But in General (heheh) what is possible and allowed is laid out in the UCMJ.

Also, remember that the Civilian Appeals Board is a long serving body of Judges that review all Courts Martials and that limits the ability of the top brass to go fully political - Ya know, by purging dissidents and such.

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Response to PhrankT (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 04:12 PM

19. There are several articles that could be applied to Flynn

they would all require any acts done ordinarily to be done while on active duty (although there is an argument that a retiree receiving retired pay is theoretically liable for acts done even in a retiree status, but to my recollection that's rarely been done).

He is an Officer, so Article 133, Conduct Unbecoming an Officer and a Gentlemen is the 133 "catch-all" equivalent for Officers.
Article 134 can be used for Officers or Enlisted though, but generally speaking the catchall provision is more for Enlisted.

Art 133 is actually broader than 134.

It's not likely going to be treason, or misbehavior before the enemy. But there are a large number of articles that deal with various possible crimes, would need to know the specific allegations to know what articles might apply.

You cannot apply Art 134 if one of the other enumerated articles apply in a concept called "preemption."

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Response to PhrankT (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2018, 09:35 PM

21. My first battalion commander forbade use of Article 134 by his company commanders

His feeling was that Article 134 was a cop-out - something only lazy commanders use.

Since Flynn is a retiree he's still subject to UCMJ, and there are some very good articles that cover what he did.

Article 81: Conspiracy (never charged alone, you must have done something before you can be in a conspiracy for it)
Article 88: Contempt toward officials
Article 92: Failure to obey order or regulation
Article 106a: Espionage
Article 107: False statements
Article 131: Perjury

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