Giving a lecture on old-timey quack medicines tomorrow

Response to derby378 (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:26 PM

MADem (135,373 posts)

1. What was in the bottles? Morphine, cocaine, booze, opiates? nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:33 PM

derby378 (30,208 posts)

2. Opiates? I think the DEA would want a word with me

However, one of the bottles contains honest-to-goodness strychnine, which was used in very small doses as a stomach remedy until safer remedies like Pepto-Bismol took off.

Another bottle may contain some really dubious kerosene, camphor, and turpentine. I'm not about to uncork the bottle in order to test it, though.

I also have a few bottles of Munyon's homeopathic pills that I may or may not bring to the meeting; I'm still debating that since I've given lectures on homeopathy in the past.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:37 PM

MADem (135,373 posts)

4. Well, I know a lot of those old quacky meds had all kinds of stuff in 'em!

Alcohol, too!

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Response to MADem (Reply #4)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:50 PM

derby378 (30,208 posts)

6. LOTS of alcohol!

That reminds me; I've got a bottle of Hostetter's Bitters I need to show off. That stuff was at least 40% alcohol.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #6)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:46 PM

lunasun (8,820 posts)

9. bitters good for what ails you

Just reading this now going to the cabinet and pour me a shot of some swedish kind i have
good nightcap

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Response to derby378 (Reply #2)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 10:20 PM

Odin2005 (53,521 posts)

15. They used STRYCHNINE for upset stomachs???

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #15)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:22 PM

derby378 (30,208 posts)

22. About a hundred years ago, they did

Only in very tiny amounts. But it was still an over-the-counter remedy.

Nowadays, if anyone needs strychnine for any medical condition, it's administered in a hospital under very close supervision. Strychnine is one hell of a CNS stimulant, and I've heard that death from strychnine poisoning is rather unpleasant.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #22)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 03:24 AM

NickB79 (13,314 posts)

120. Our dog ate some strychinine-based fly bait when I was a kid

Horrible, horrible way to die. Body-wracking seizures, foaming at the mouth, it just went on and on until my dad got his rifle to put him down.

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Response to MADem (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:52 PM

hifiguy (33,688 posts)

11. A lot of corn liquor and turpentine, I suspect. nt

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #11)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 12:15 AM

MADem (135,373 posts)

12. ...~BURP!``~! nt

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #11)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 12:03 AM

Ikonoklast (23,973 posts)

33. Ooh, ooh, I know this one!

I'll take "What do most of the posters in The Lounge run on?" for $1000, Alex.

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Response to derby378 (Original post)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:36 PM

Spider Jerusalem (20,077 posts)

3. One word: Radithor

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 10:49 PM

derby378 (30,208 posts)

5. I'd love to grab a bottle - but then again, maybe not

I've heard one story of an old radium jug at an antique shop that was tested with a Geiger counter. It was so radioactive that the NRC was called, who quickly whisked the jug off to a secure location behind a lead-lined wall.

It would have to be an empty bottle for me, I'm afraid.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #5)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:32 PM

MADem (135,373 posts)

8. With tongs...while wearing a lead suit!!! nt

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:31 PM

longship (37,649 posts)

7. Radium is very bad shit.

Not as bad as Plutonium, but really not something you want to come into contact with. Bad. Bad!

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Response to longship (Reply #7)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 10:25 PM

Odin2005 (53,521 posts)

18. Radium is probably lead to Marie Curie dying from cancer.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #18)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 01:39 AM

longship (37,649 posts)

81. And many on the Manhattan Project.

Lots of weird cancers, including one of my heros, Richard Feynman.

Of course, there's always the story of the physicist who was testing criticality by pushing U235 blocks together with a pencil. When the blocks fell together, he pulled them apart by hand. He died within two days, but saved everybody within a rather large area. Probably apocryphal, but it is a common story for freshman physics majors. It even made its way into pop culture in the film, Fat Man and Little Boy, a Hollywood chronical of the Manhattan Project. (Not bad, Paul Newman played Gen. Leslie Groves.)

I prefer Doctor Atomic, an opera by composer John Adams.

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Response to longship (Reply #7)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:52 PM

Confusious (8,317 posts)

28. It's a lot harder

to get poisoned by plutonium then radium.

unless you've been standing next to any nuclear blasts lately.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #28)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 01:21 AM

longship (37,649 posts)

75. Radium is natural, Plutonium isn't.

But, you may be correct. I have heard that Pu is toxic in spite of its radioactivity, I am not sure of that now. There isn't a lot of research on the topic given the ethical problems with such a research project.

So the jury's out and not likely to reconvene.

I worked with radium in my senior year in physics, and not since. It is scary shit. I have no experience with Pu except a coworker at Argonne National Lab dosed himself three times with it and he was let go. The guy was an accident waiting to happen, as his history attested.

I never worked with Pu, and by that time I would never had done it. My projects were solar. No nuclear for me, although I have softened somewhat recently, even in spite of Fukushima. But, that's another post.

Thanks for your response.

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Response to longship (Reply #75)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 10:19 PM

derby378 (30,208 posts)

156. Actually...

...isn't plutonium found naturally in very small trace amounts in uranium ore on Earth? That's natural enough for me.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #156)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 10:49 PM

longship (37,649 posts)

164. Maybe true.

But Pu isn't a natural element in supernovae, which is what I was alluding to. May I state it this way? There would be no natural Pu on Earth except as a daughter product to U fission. There wouldn't be much of it since natural reactors are not common. It is a picky difference, I know.

I am sure the science has passed me by since my studies.

Thanks for the correction.

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Response to longship (Reply #164)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 10:56 PM

derby378 (30,208 posts)

165. And thanks for the clarification

It's interesting that you mentioned supernovae - did they actually find some technetium percolating in one or two of those?

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Response to derby378 (Reply #165)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 12:47 AM

longship (37,649 posts)

171. Tc, element 43

Not surprising, I guess. Not my expertease, I am afraid. My physics is a bit old and cranky.

AFAIK, supernovae do not generate beyond U = 92, which puts Tc within reach. I would bet it is rare, though. Anything above iron (Fe = 26) is unreachable except by way of supernovae. And above U, unreachable even with a supernova. Again, AFAIK.

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 11:49 PM

SoapBox (18,791 posts)

10. Eckkkkk!

...running away...running a LONG ways away!

But oh gee, it was in Triple distilled water. AND it was patented?!?

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #3)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 10:23 PM

Odin2005 (53,521 posts)

17. WTF is "mesothorium"???

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #17)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:59 PM

TheMadMonk (6,187 posts)

31. I'd guess Th233 as opposed to Th232 or Th234.

Of some interest is that 233 is the stuff that goes boom when there's enough of it.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #17)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 12:05 AM

Spider Jerusalem (20,077 posts)

34. the old name for radium 228, which is a decay product of thorium 232.

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Response to derby378 (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 12:35 AM

Habibi (3,115 posts)

13. Got any Holloway's Bitters?

George Holloway was a druggist who produced a bunch of "medicines." Also my great-granddad.

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Response to Habibi (Reply #13)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 09:33 PM

derby378 (30,208 posts)

14. I've got Hostetter's, but not Holloway's

Hostetter's Stomach Bitters clocked in at 40% alcohol. Wheeeee!

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Response to derby378 (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 10:22 PM

Odin2005 (53,521 posts)

16. The woo-woos here on DU would love for us to go back to those bad old days.

Any mention of regulating alternative "medicine" leads to rants about "Evil Big Gummit helping Evil Big Pharma".

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #16)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 10:37 PM

HiPointDem (20,729 posts)

19. plenty of medicines today that are basically ineffective.

"The difference between the effect of a placebo and the effect of an antidepressant is minimal for most people," says Harvard scientist Irving Kirsch. Will Kirsch's research, and the work of others, change the $11.3 billion antidepressant industry? Lesley Stahl investigates.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57380893/treating-depression-is-there-a-placebo-effect/

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #19)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:21 PM

Odin2005 (53,521 posts)

21. My not having panic attacks anymore is not any fucking placebo effect.

Paxil is the only thing that stopped them.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #21)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:24 PM

HiPointDem (20,729 posts)

23. ecological fallacy

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #21)

Thu Sep 27, 2012, 03:09 PM

JackRiddler (24,862 posts)

180. Okay, but that's you.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #19)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:27 PM

Care Acutely (1,370 posts)

24. Even that singular naysayer conceedes that antidepressants DO work

and do have a clinically significant benefit for those with clinical ("bad"

depression.

The patients I see personally, over and over end up in our facility because they were previously diagnosed with MDD, got onto a good antidepressant that was working for them, felt better, and then quit taking their pills. Can't tell you how many times I've heard "I was feeling so good, I figured I didn't need them anymore."

Me: "Well, perhaps - but when you're ready to quit taking an antidepressant you have to do it with the help of your provider. We want to help you be safe."

So now they've got another major setback, sometimes an incompleted suicide and perhaps a committal or law enforcement action to deal with. Its a damn mess but with the right medication and continuing, effective therapy, I've seen these meds save lives. Save families.

These poor people have had enough cruel, ignorant and whacked-out people like Tom Cruise and other anti-pharm hysterics telling them it's "all in their head."

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Response to Care Acutely (Reply #24)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:29 PM

HiPointDem (20,729 posts)

25. where else would depression be but 'in their heads'? that doesn't mean that anti-depressants

have a strong effect on depression.

possibly because depression isn't the product of 'bad brain chemistry'.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #25)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:44 PM

Odin2005 (53,521 posts)

27. LOL, never heard of seretonin?

"possibly because depression isn't the product of 'bad brain chemistry'."

Right, they just need to wish it away, that will work!!!

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #27)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 12:07 AM

HiPointDem (20,729 posts)

35. please tell me how the test for low serotonin works. as you are such a scholar, i'm sure you know.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #35)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 12:12 AM

Odin2005 (53,521 posts)

40. So the last 40 years of neuroscience is a Big Pharma conspiracy to sell pills, gotcha.

I read a lot of popular neuroscience books and the connection between serotonin and mood is a well-accepted fact just as much as the connection between dopamine and addiction is accepted as fact.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #40)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 12:15 AM

HiPointDem (20,729 posts)

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Response to Confusious (Reply #77)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 01:29 AM

HiPointDem (20,729 posts)

in 75% of listed endangered species. do you think they didn't do their homework?

your dedication to ignoring the content of my posts is admirablly single-minded.

'listening to prozac' was published in 1993 & marks the wider-scale use of SSRIs.

there are few long-term studies.

In 1988, the first SSRI, fluoxetine, was introduced in the United States... SSRIs were initially considered almost free of side effects. Unlike the TCAs, they could be used safely in many patient populations, including the elderly and children...

However, questions about the safety and tolerability of SSRIs have emerged with their continued use. For example, in the original placebo-controlled clinical trials of fluoxetine in depressed patients, sexual dysfunction was reported in 1.9% of trial participants... However, postmarketing clinical trials have reported rates of sexual dysfunction as high as 75%.

Although severe SSRI-induced hyponatremia was not reported in the original clinical trials, it is now known to occur in 1 in 200 elderly patients per year...

Why have the frequency and type of side effects with SSRIs increased with time?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC181155/

What is not washed out are the side effects, which include the potential for brain damage. A few years ago one of Glenmullen’s patients who was taking Prozac developed a tic—the tongue darting in and out of the mouth—that persisted for months after the drug was discontinued. That sent Glenmullen to Countway Library. He found reports of tics and other neurological side effects, like drug-induced Parkinsonism, associated with SSRIs. “The tics include lip smacking, lip puckering, fishlike kissing motions, and pelvic thrusting,” Glenmullen says. “They are involuntary, disfiguring, and can be very noticeable—and may persist long after the drug is stopped. This is the dread side effect in psychiatry, and it can indicate brain damage. Such reactions are not rare. Neurologic agitation is estimated to occur in 10 to 25 percent of patients, and muscle spasms in 10 percent.”

The FDA mandates clinical trials for antidepressants that typically last only six weeks and primarily test the drug’s efficacy and short-term safety. “We lack systematic monitoring of long-term side effects,” Glenmullen says, noting that a former FDA head estimated that only 1 percent of long-term side effects comes to the agency’s attention. Glenmullen adds that such side effects of psychiatric drugs typically take three decades to gain a critical level of attention, as with the restlessness and involuntary twitching—tardive dyskinesia—associated with Thorazine and other major tranquilizers. “Those drugs were prescribed the way Prozac is now,” Glenmullen states. (To date, an estimated 30 million people have ingested SSRIs.)

http://harvardmagazine.com/2000/05/the-downsides-of-prozac.html

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #134)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 05:46 AM

Confusious (8,317 posts)

141. At least it's not death

Last edited Sun Aug 19, 2012, 06:38 AM - Edit history (2)

Like your Chinese cure. Of course, that only happens rarely, right? not like regular medicine, where you get all the side effects all the time.

Like I said, you love to talk about the side effects. Which go away once you've stopped taking the drug. There are side effects to every drug. There are side effects to your Chinese "medicine." There would be, if you actually took it in any quantity to have an effect.

Oh, and you forgot this part:

"The combined pressures of commercial demand, excessive hunting and habitat destruction have depleted Asia's bear, tiger and rhino populations. Most experts agree that the trade in tiger bone for medicinal purposes was a major factor fueling the tiger conservation crisis of the 1980s and '90s." - my link WWF

your words:

"world wildlife fund on habitat loss being the most important cause of extinction in 75% of listed endangered species"

I'm going to assume you mean Asia's bear, tiger and rhino populations too. Of course, you'll tell me how wrong I am, and how you didn't mean that.

"For his part, Glenmullen has long prescribed Prozac and other SSRIs and continues to use them in specific cases. But he also suggests numerous treatment alternatives for anyone using or contemplating the use of such drugs—including psychotherapy, cognitive therapy, behavioral treatment, 12-step programs, herbal remedies like St. John’s wort, exercise, and diet modifications. About one SSRI user in four really does benefit from the drug, he says, but he adds, “There is no free lunch. Most of these people who feel so good about the long-term use of Prozac think it’s cost-free. Patients need to be better educated about the risk-benefit analysis. If they are taking Prozac to feel ‘better than well,’ that’s a big mistake.” "

Like I said, over proscribed, but so are a lot of things. Hyperactive drugs, antibiotics, etc. Your long list of bad things doesn't seem to stop him from proscribing them though.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #100)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 10:31 PM

dionysus (26,467 posts)

159. if SSRI's don't work for you, perhaps you should get some benzo's.. i think you could use some...

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #79)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 03:42 PM

hifiguy (33,688 posts)

148. They work for me. With my twice-a-day dose of Cymbalta

I am perfectly capable of functioning as normally as I can (I am dx'd on the autism spectrum as Asperger's). Without it I barely have the ability to get up and feed the cat. Not all anti-depressants work for all people, and any reputable psychiatrist will tell you so. There are some that have not worked for me. Cymbalta works for me both as an anti-depressant and mood stabilizer. I would be lost without it or something similar.

I suggest dismounting from your high horse.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #148)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 10:33 PM

dionysus (26,467 posts)

160. don't try convincing this guy... you're wasting your breath.

he knows better than people who take meds that are working for them.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #25)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:56 PM

Confusious (8,317 posts)

30. Seriously?

There must be some other reason then that I'm not depressed, since it stopped when I started taking the meds.

I mean, the 10 years before that, I tried a lot of things. Then I started the meds, gone a month later.

Must have been aliens.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #30)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 12:09 AM

HiPointDem (20,729 posts)

Vizzini would be so proud.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #25)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 08:43 AM

idwiyo (5,113 posts)

177. Depressive illness is a physical illness, not a bloody "all in your head" BS!

Last edited Tue Aug 21, 2012, 03:33 AM - Edit history (1)

Have a look at this PET scan and tell me again that depressive illness is not a physical illness:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/medical/IM00356

Your posts are extremely offensive to everyone who suffers from this horrible illness.
Here is a good book for you and everyone else ignorant of what they are talking about:

Depressive Illness - Curse Of The Strong by Tim Cantopher:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Depressive-illness-curse-strong-Tim-Cantopher/dp/0859699749

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #19)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:53 PM

Confusious (8,317 posts)

29. I second what odin said

Seems a lot of experts here with no first hand knowledge, nor medical degrees.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #29)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 12:08 AM

HiPointDem (20,729 posts)

36. how do you know what degrees posters have?

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #36)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 12:17 AM

Confusious (8,317 posts)

43. Well you don't

obviously.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #43)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 12:32 AM

HiPointDem (20,729 posts)

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #93)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 02:33 AM

Confusious (8,317 posts)

97. because you're asking me

to disprove the existence of unicorns.

We all know they don't and never have, yet you want me to prove it.

That, in an analogy, is your claim.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #97)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 03:04 AM

HiPointDem (20,729 posts)

is a BAD thing.

http://www.cancer.gov/aboutnci/servingpeople/snapshots/pediatric.pdf

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #16)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 11:03 AM

agent46 (1,262 posts)

143. Interestingly

The New Age movement embraces the corporate gospel dressed up for the woo set and titled "The Secret."

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Response to derby378 (Original post)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 11:35 PM

flvegan (63,954 posts)

26. From your post, it seems you think any "antique medicine" is worthless.

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Response to dionysus (Reply #168)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 12:37 AM

sense (1,219 posts)

170. That's who you are...

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Response to Confusious (Reply #32)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 12:10 AM

HiPointDem (20,729 posts)

when we consider that western 'scientists' deliberately infected unsuspecting guatemalans with syphilis (precursor to the tuskeegee experiment conducted by similar 'scientists'), just one in a long list of misdeeds, i'd say the west can match the east atrocity for atrocity.

and species extinction? you're playing favorites. how many primates and other exotics killed & tortured for medical research?

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #107)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 03:11 AM

Confusious (8,317 posts)

114. Seems like it. nt

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #39)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 12:18 AM

Odin2005 (53,521 posts)

45. Chinese Medicine is good for driving species into extinction from poaching.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #45)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 12:27 AM

HiPointDem (20,729 posts)

51. no, that's capitalism. chinese medicine isn't all about endangered species, fyi.

not to mention that westerners have killed off a hell of a lot more species than the chinese -- more money & power until quite recently.

(west also killed more chinese...)

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #51)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 12:35 AM

Odin2005 (53,521 posts)

58. LOL, what crap.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #58)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 12:36 AM

HiPointDem (20,729 posts)

modern times. bigger than anything mao did, despite the propaganda.

many ways to kill people.

http://www.fsmitha.com/h3/h38china.htm

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #130)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 04:09 AM

Confusious (8,317 posts)

132. 50,000 deaths due the opium wars

Sure I can see that.

But you're blaming a revolt (1850-1863) on the western powers, which was led by a Chinese native who thought he was Jesus Christ, against the Qing dynasty. Almost entirely fought between Chinese. (Western powers only joined in in the last stages of the rebellion I might add).

it's the western powers killing people.

Did the western powers use mind control to make the rebellion happen and the people fight?

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Response to Confusious (Reply #132)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 04:34 AM

HiPointDem (20,729 posts)

135. yes, i'm blaming the western powers, for multiple reasons. the opium wars and the taiping

rebellion are inextricably linked, not discrete events.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #135)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 05:44 AM

Confusious (8,317 posts)

140. Guilt by association then, is it.

I guess we all can't uphold modern ideas of justice when it clashes with our dogma.

PS. It's not like the Chinese didn't overthrow their own emperors way back when, on their own. No... wait. They did.

PS. The only reason they're linked is because the rebels didn't like the weakness of the Qing in dealing with the western powers. The Western powers didn't hold a gun or use mind control to make the rebellion happen. The rebels had a choice.

And they made it. So did the Qing.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #140)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 01:48 PM

Odin2005 (53,521 posts)

146. I see the "West evil, West evil" BS has started.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #32)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 12:31 AM

flvegan (63,954 posts)

55. Ignorance is bliss, some say.

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Response to flvegan (Reply #26)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 03:10 AM

Posteritatis (18,807 posts)

112. Most antique medicine was worthless. (nt)

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Response to derby378 (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 01:41 AM

Ya Basta (391 posts)

82. Homeopathic Medicines?

Here you go. Here's just a few examples out of plenty more.

Suzanne Somers cured her breast cancer with this one

This one may or may not qualify as homeopathic, but its a powerful therapy against cancer but big pharma and the medical establishment call it quackery. View the results and judge for yourself.

How To Use Cayenne Pepper To Stop A Heart Attack Fast!

Famed healers such as Dr. John Christopher, N.D., and Dr. Richard Schulze, N.D., sang the praises of Cayenne pepper. For instance Dr. John Christopher declared: "In 35 years of practice, and working with the people and teaching, I have never on house calls lost one heart attack patient and the reason is, whenever I go in--if they are still breathing--I pour down them a cup of cayenne tea (a teaspoon of cayenne in a cup of hot water, and within minutes they are up and around)."

It should be noted that these men, and many other healers like them, were speaking from personal experience and not speculation when referring to this powerful plant.

So what are the best practices in using Cayenne pepper based upon the voice and experiences of those that have actually used it?

First the Cayenne pepper must be at least 90,000 heat units or 90,000(H.U.) to be able to stop a heart attack. If the cayenne is at least 90,000 H.U. and the person is still conscious, the recommendation is to mix 1 teaspoon of cayenne powder in a glass of warm water (this is essentially a "cayenne tea", and give it to the person to drink.

If the person is unconscious then the recommendation is to use a cayenne tincture or extract, again of at least 90,000 H.U., and put a couple of full droppers underneath their tongue full strength. As noted above by Dr. Christopher, in 35 years of practice he never lost even 1 heart attack case if the person was still breathing when he arrived, and he attributed this to the prudent use of the cayenne pepper.

http://www.naturalnews.com/030566_cayenne_pepper_heart_attack.html#ixzz22tgzV6hV

Advance this video to 3:13 and this woman gives her personal experience in stopping a heart attack using cayenne pepper extract.

Capsaicinoids, (capsaicin and dihydrocapsaicin), are the major pungent constituents of chili peppers from the genus Capsicum. Regular intake of chili peppers delays oxidation of serum lipids, and lowers and improves insulin and glucose profiles following a meal, both of which contribute to reducing the risk of cardiovascular disease (Ahuja 2006). In animal models, capsaicin reduces platelet aggregation (Wang 1984). An early study attributed the reduced plasma fibrinogen and increased fibrinolytic activity of native Thai individuals, compared to Americans living in Thailand, to the amounts of capsaicin in their diets (Visudhiphan 1982). In laboratory tests, both capsaicin and dihydrocapsaicin reduced platelet aggregation and reduced the activity of clotting proteins in blood samples from 6 healthy patients (Adams 2009).

http://www.lef.org/protocols/heart_circulatory/blood_clot_02.htm

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Response to Ya Basta (Reply #82)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 02:11 AM

Confusious (8,317 posts)

91. The cayenne cure reminded me of these guys

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Response to Confusious (Reply #91)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 03:18 AM

Ya Basta (391 posts)

119. ...

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Response to Ya Basta (Reply #119)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 03:36 AM

Confusious (8,317 posts)

126. The good (not so good) Dr had his license revoked

Maybe if you wee on his head, it'll fix things.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #126)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 04:06 AM

Ya Basta (391 posts)

131. Your comment only demonstrates your ignorance

Dr. Glenn Warner had his license revoked for curing cancer patients with methods that didn't make the pharmaceutical industry its billions of dollars. That tends to happen to doctors as some of the above videos illustrate.

So go ahead confusious keep serving the corporate interests of money before health. In the end, your arrogance toward homeopathic medicine is only doing a disservice to the sick and dying.

Dr. Glenn Warner, unconventional oncologist

Seattle Times:

Before his license was revoked, Dr. Warner was seeing about 1,500 cancer patients a year at the clinic, which he had opened in Seattle in 1979. "He saved my life," said Lois Berry, 81, who was diagnosed with breast cancer in 1969.

Berry has never had conventional treatment for her cancer, which metastasized to her bones in 1973. And like legions of Warner's patients, she credits his holistic approach to treatment for the fact that she is still alive.

"He was the most wonderful, caring, loving, religious man I've ever known," Berry said. "The medical community couldn't stand it because he didn't practice medicine the way everybody else did. He was way ahead of everybody. He always treated the whole person."

--

In the 1960s, Dr. Warner became taken with scientific evidence that the body's own defenses could be used to fight cancer. In the medical lexicon, the practice of boosting those defenses to help a patient battle cancer is known as immunology.

Dr. Warner started the immunologic-oncology division at the Tumor Institute and did research on immunology in cooperation with Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle before striking out on his own to start the clinic.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20001114&slug=4052895

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Response to Ya Basta (Reply #131)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 04:20 AM

Confusious (8,317 posts)

133. No, I place science first

because it has a proven track record.

smallpox, measles, rubella, polio, antibiotics, heart transplants (Where are the homeopathic surgeons I wonder?) (Where are the homeopathic engineers I wonder?) (homeopathy has been around since, ooh, the 1850's. Why didn't it cure smallpox? It's bullshit, that's why.)

I prefer to move forward, not backwards. You're making a b-line to the middle ages. It isn't to any sort of better health, it's backwards to superstition.

Homeopathic A&E

Oh, yea... The "you're a puppet of power" is getting worn out.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #133)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 05:09 AM

Ya Basta (391 posts)

137. No you don't

For if you did you would acknowledge that some illnesses are best treated by homeopathic medicine and other illnesses are best treated by allopathic medicine. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge that fact illustrates you're not about science.

As for homeopathic medicine being bullshit. Then why is homeopathic medicine not only doing a far better job at curing cancer and other degenerative diseases, but also why is homeopathic medicine the basis of a lot of allopathic medicines?

The fact that you don't know that again illustrates to me you're not about science. You're just someone who lacks critical thinking skills and observation. Big pharma can't patent natural cures so they take natural cures and attempt to extract components so they can then get a patent. Its all about the money. But go ahead and keep drinking the kool-Aid.

Do you even have any idea how many people have been sent home to die by allopathic doctors who could do nothing more for them. Only to be saved by homeopathic medicine. Countless.

n/t

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Response to Ya Basta (Reply #137)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 05:39 AM

Confusious (8,317 posts)

138. Bullshit

Last edited Sun Aug 19, 2012, 06:16 AM - Edit history (3)

You've been drinking to much koolaid.

Homeopathic "medicine" has saved no one.

Well, maybe some people from a terrible thirst.

"The effectiveness of homeopathy has been in dispute since its inception. One of the earliest double blind studies concerning homeopathy was sponsored by the British government during World War II in which volunteers tested the efficacy of homeopathic remedies against diluted mustard gas burns.[109]

No individual preparation has been unambiguously demonstrated to be different from placebo.[2][110] The methodological quality of the primary research was generally low, with such problems as weaknesses in study design and reporting, small sample size, and selection bias. Since better quality trials have become available, the evidence for efficacy of homeopathy preparations has diminished; the highest-quality trials indicate that the remedies themselves exert no intrinsic effect.[15][12][33]:206 A review conducted in 2010 of all the pertinent studies of "best evidence" produced by the Cochrane Collaboration concluded that "the most reliable evidence – that produced by Cochrane reviews – fails to demonstrate that homeopathic medicines have effects beyond placebo."[111]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy

60 years of tests, and no one can find shit that shows it works.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #138)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 04:43 PM

Ya Basta (391 posts)

153. LOL.. Ha ha!

This will be my last post on this.

If homeopathic medicine was nothing more than snake oil or witchcraft, then why does the pharmaceutical industry employ botanists and other scientists to research the efficacy of natural substances so that they can then find a way to synthesize it or extract a component? The answer is because nature has had billions of years of natural selection to create these substances to fight off and defend against many pathogens and illnesses.

If homepathic medicines were ever standardized and serious clinical studies done to ascertain most effective protocols the pharmaceutical industry as well as the rest of the health-care industry would be gravely at risk of losing many billions of dollars since homeopathic medicines can't be patented, are sold over the counter and are without the nasty and dangerous side-effects common with many allopathic drugs. This is the crux of the matter and the basis why we see the medical industry shun homeopathic medicine. Its about the money and they don't want the competition.

Clinical trials cost money and since no patents can be issued for natural cures, there's little to no incentive from the medical industry to pay for clinical trials. But if you can synthesize it or extract a component such as we see for example with sativex and marinol in an attempt to patent marijuana therapy (there are hundreds of other examples). Then not only is there now financial incentive to regard the efficacy of a natural substance. But also we see financial incentive to discredit the use of these substance in their natural form for which there is also efficacy. Especially since they usually come without all the side-effects as we see with many allopathic drugs. Again, the health-care industry does not want any competition.

Clinical trials for substances need approval from the FDA. However there's a cozy financial conflict of interest between the FDA and the pharmaceutical industry. In the cancer videos I posted above it shows proof this conflict of interest is used against natural substance's efficacy from being recognized. Again, the health-care industry does not want any competition.

--

the guardian

Scientists are supposed to make unprejudiced observations, then draw conclusions. As I thought about this, I was left with the highly uncomfortable conclusion that homeopathy appeared to have worked. I had to find out more.

So, I started reading about homeopathy, and what I discovered shifted my world for ever. I became convinced enough to hand my coveted PhD studentship over to my best friend and sign on for a three-year, full-time homeopathy training course.

Now, as an experienced homeopath, it is "science" that is biting me on the bottom. I know homeopathy works, not only because I've seen it with my own eyes countless times, but because scientific research confirms it. And yet I keep reading reports in the media saying that homeopathy doesn't work and that this scientific evidence doesn't exist.

The facts, it seems, are being ignored. By the end of 2009, 142 randomised control trials (the gold standard in medical research) comparing homeopathy with placebo or conventional treatment had been published in peer-reviewed journals – 74 were able to draw firm conclusions: 63 were positive for homeopathy and 11 were negative. Five major systematic reviews have also been carried out to analyse the balance of evidence from RCTs of homeopathy – four were positive (Kleijnen, J, et al; Linde, K, et al; Linde, K, et al; Cucherat, M, et al) and one was negative (Shang, A et al). It's usual to get mixed results when you look at a wide range of research results on one subject, and if these results were from trials measuring the efficacy of "normal" conventional drugs, ratios of 63:11 and 4:1 in favour of a treatment working would be considered pretty persuasive.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jul/15/homeopathy-works-scientific-evidence

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Response to Ya Basta (Reply #137)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 10:46 PM

SidDithers (41,370 posts)

163. Homeopathic medicine is an oxymoron...

Sid

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Response to Ya Basta (Reply #82)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 10:41 PM

SidDithers (41,370 posts)

162. naturalnews and lef...

well done.

Sid

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Response to derby378 (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 03:15 AM

Taverner (55,476 posts)

116. Could you have them analyzed?

It would be cool to see if it had anything other than the oil of a snake

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Response to Taverner (Reply #116)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 10:30 PM

derby378 (30,208 posts)

158. I probably could, but it might be expensive

The "snake oil" bottle that I have, from records compiled by the precursor to the FDA, had no rattlesnake oil at all, but instead contained camphor, turpentine, cayenne pepper, and beef fat.

I reckon if I ever uncork that bottle, my entire home is going to stink something fierce.

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Response to derby378 (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 03:15 AM

Posteritatis (18,807 posts)

117. I've always enjoyed watching the patent med vendors switch their target audiences

When doing my undergrad thesis I was studying the advertising for them in local papers for awhile. I'd see one around 1900 that would claim to cure various "nervous ailments" - the specifics varied by paper but that was the general theme.

Eight or ten years later, the same medicine was in the paper still, but this time it claimed to strengthen the blood and liver with no mention of nervous anything.

A few years after that, it's briefly claiming to be a panacea, curing heart problems, nerve problems, arthritis and so on.

Little after that, it's back to "nervous exhaustion" again.

I was mostly just looking at the wording in the ads rather than specific products, but I was always curious if the vendors were just following the fad ailments of the day or if there was some regulatory pressure quietly going on somewhere.

Also? Favorite quack-medicine claim: "Cures errors of youth." (What?)

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Response to derby378 (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 03:24 AM

appleannie1 (3,755 posts)

121. Gee, back in the day Coke was made with real cocaine. People gave paregoric to infants

with belly aches and I thought terpin hydrate was great for a cough. So many of the remedies I grew up with are now illegal or off the market.

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Response to derby378 (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 04:06 PM

Scuba (53,475 posts)

151. Don't forget Trickle Down, the ultimate snake oil.

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Response to derby378 (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 04:27 PM

madamesilverspurs (11,643 posts)

152. Always wondered about this one:

?w=289&h=300

Dad used to burn it and inhale the smoke to help rid him of congestion. Smelled really nasty. In later years, he burned it outside and some neighbor kids peeked over the fence and asked if he was smoking weed. Well it was green . . .

-

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Response to derby378 (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 10:24 PM

SidDithers (41,370 posts)

157. Awesome...

sounds like it would be a great presentation to hear. Knock 'em dead.

Sid

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Response to derby378 (Original post)

Sun Aug 19, 2012, 10:36 PM

NYC Liberal (17,940 posts)

161. Sadly there is plenty of anti-science thinking among otherwise rational people on the left.

Lots of homeopathy woo peddlers still around.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #161)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 01:33 AM

Major Nikon (25,429 posts)

172. Snake oil salesmen are as popular as ever

In some cases (like with some of the pharma companies) they are more sophisticated about it, but some really aren't. They will always be around so long as there are people willing to give them money.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #172)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 02:43 AM

NYC Liberal (17,940 posts)

173. They rail on about "big pharma" making obscene profits,

yet they sure aren't giving away their snake oil for free; they're making billions. If their snake oil worked then "big pharma" could sell it just like they do.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #173)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 04:47 AM

HiPointDem (20,729 posts)

175. Although the pharmaceutical industry claims to be a high-risk business,

year after year drug companies enjoy higher profits than any other industry. In 2002, for example, the top 10 drug companies in the United States had a median profit margin of 17%, compared with only 3.1% for all the other industries on the Fortune 500 list.1 Indeed, subtracting losses from gains, those 10 companies made more in profits that year than the other 490 companies put together.

http://www.cmaj.ca/content/171/12/1451.full

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #175)

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 04:51 AM

NYC Liberal (17,940 posts)

176. And?

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Response to derby378 (Original post)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 01:07 PM

Taverner (55,476 posts)

181. Do you have the bottle of Heroin by Bayer (for toothing infants)

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Response to Taverner (Reply #181)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 07:19 PM

derby378 (30,208 posts)

182. Ooooohh!!!

No, I'm afraid I don't. I'll bet that's real hard to find. On the other hand, a bottle of Mrs. Winslow's Soothing Syrup might be an easier acquisition (contained morphine, used to put kids to sleep - some of them never woke up again).

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182 replies	Author	Time	Post
Giving a lecture on old-timey quack medicines tomorrow (Original post)	derby378	Aug 2012	OP
What was in the bottles? Morphine, cocaine, booze, opiates? nt	MADem	Aug 2012	#1
Opiates? I think the DEA would want a word with me	derby378	Aug 2012	#2
Well, I know a lot of those old quacky meds had all kinds of stuff in 'em!	MADem	Aug 2012	#4
LOTS of alcohol!	derby378	Aug 2012	#6
bitters good for what ails you	lunasun	Aug 2012	#9
They used STRYCHNINE for upset stomachs???	Odin2005	Aug 2012	#15
About a hundred years ago, they did	derby378	Aug 2012	#22
Our dog ate some strychinine-based fly bait when I was a kid	NickB79	Aug 2012	#120
A lot of corn liquor and turpentine, I suspect. nt	hifiguy	Aug 2012	#11
...~~~*BURP!*``~~~! nt	MADem	Aug 2012	#12
Ooh, ooh, I know this one!	Ikonoklast	Aug 2012	#33
One word: Radithor	Spider Jerusalem	Aug 2012	#3
I'd love to grab a bottle - but then again, maybe not	derby378	Aug 2012	#5
With tongs...while wearing a lead suit!!! nt	MADem	Aug 2012	#8
Radium is very bad shit.	longship	Aug 2012	#7
Radium is probably lead to Marie Curie dying from cancer.	Odin2005	Aug 2012	#18
And many on the Manhattan Project.	longship	Aug 2012	#81
It's a lot harder	Confusious	Aug 2012	#28
Radium is natural, Plutonium isn't.	longship	Aug 2012	#75
Actually...	derby378	Aug 2012	#156
Maybe true.	longship	Aug 2012	#164
And thanks for the clarification	derby378	Aug 2012	#165
Tc, element 43	longship	Aug 2012	#171
Eckkkkk!	SoapBox	Aug 2012	#10
WTF is "mesothorium"???	Odin2005	Aug 2012	#17
I'd guess Th233 as opposed to Th232 or Th234.	TheMadMonk	Aug 2012	#31
the old name for radium 228, which is a decay product of thorium 232.	Spider Jerusalem	Aug 2012	#34
Got any Holloway's Bitters?	Habibi	Aug 2012	#13
I've got Hostetter's, but not Holloway's	derby378	Aug 2012	#14
The woo-woos here on DU would love for us to go back to those bad old days.	Odin2005	Aug 2012	#16
plenty of medicines today that are basically ineffective.	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#19
My not having panic attacks anymore is not any fucking placebo effect.	Odin2005	Aug 2012	#21
ecological fallacy	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#23
Okay, but that's you.	JackRiddler	Sep 2012	#180
Even that singular naysayer conceedes that antidepressants DO work	Care Acutely	Aug 2012	#24
where else would depression be but 'in their heads'? that doesn't mean that anti-depressants	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#25
LOL, never heard of seretonin?	Odin2005	Aug 2012	#27
please tell me how the test for low serotonin works. as you are such a scholar, i'm sure you know.	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#35
So the last 40 years of neuroscience is a Big Pharma conspiracy to sell pills, gotcha.	Odin2005	Aug 2012	#40
I said, tell me how the test for low serotonin works & when you got yours.	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#41
You know what you sound like? A Creationist...	Odin2005	Aug 2012	#47
it doesn't? oh really.... thought you were all about the science....	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#52
No, I'm rejecting your sophistry.	Odin2005	Aug 2012	#57
i've read up on it for years -- including at university. which is how i know that patients	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#64
The Serotonin Theory of Depression Is Collapsing	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#70
But the anti depressants still work. Nt.	Confusious	Aug 2012	#77
depends on what you mean by 'work,' and for whom.	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#79
Disengenous argument.	Confusious	Aug 2012	#86
not at all, but you're tiresome. it's well-known that anti-depressants don't work for a significant	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#92
Well, you'd have a point	Confusious	Aug 2012	#95
you'd have a point -- if there were some way of determining who a 'good candidate' for treatment	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#98
Well, most people complaining of depression	Confusious	Aug 2012	#99
<50% of that population get relief from anti-depressants. and as with any large powerful corporation	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#100
Which is higher then I thought	Confusious	Aug 2012	#102
my argument wouldn't be any of those things. this discussion began when i stated that there	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#105
So you're just here to spread FUD	Confusious	Aug 2012	#108
I wonder why you felt you had to post all those links, as i've not denied that chinese medicine	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#124
Chinese medicine is the greater part of it	Confusious	Aug 2012	#127
I quoted the world wildlife fund on habitat loss being the most important cause of extinction	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#134
At least it's not death	Confusious	Aug 2012	#141
if SSRI's don't work for you, perhaps you should get some benzo's.. i think you could use some...	dionysus	Aug 2012	#159
They work for me. With my twice-a-day dose of Cymbalta	hifiguy	Aug 2012	#148
don't try convincing this guy... you're wasting your breath.	dionysus	Aug 2012	#160
Seriously?	Confusious	Aug 2012	#30
not sure what relevance your comments have to mine.	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#37
Let me make it easy for you	Confusious	Aug 2012	#46
He/She is using the same arguments the Creationists use when denying evolution.	Odin2005	Aug 2012	#49
Yea I know	Confusious	Aug 2012	#53
You seem to blame everything you don't	sense	Aug 2012	#115
several hidden assumptions in there...i'll leave you to figure them out as you fancy you are so	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#54
I guess you didn't	Confusious	Aug 2012	#63
If you think depression's a monolithic nonbiological thing you really need to stop talking	Posteritatis	Aug 2012	#111
You appeal to this man's authority and then immediately discredit him.	Care Acutely	Aug 2012	#147
Depressive illness is a physical illness, not a bloody "all in your head" BS!	idwiyo	Aug 2012	#177
I second what odin said	Confusious	Aug 2012	#29
how do you know what degrees posters have?	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#36
Well you don't	Confusious	Aug 2012	#43
oh really? your esp is poor	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#56
Deductive reasoning.	Confusious	Aug 2012	#62
why don't you then? your brand of 'deductive reasoning' goes like this:	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#65
You forgot C	Confusious	Aug 2012	#66
"sounds like someone" is an opinion, not a fact. not an objective premise, sorry.	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#69
Well you haven't disputed my claim	Confusious	Aug 2012	#72
except it's not just one study (the one cited was a meta-study, btw).	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#74
See that's another thing	Confusious	Aug 2012	#76
your assumptions are showing again -- and you're back to the name-calling.	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#80
Did I hurt your feelings?	Confusious	Aug 2012	#83
more name-calling, while i'm citing evidence. readers can judge for themselves who's more	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#88
Like I said	Confusious	Aug 2012	#89
i haven't noticed you making any arguments at all. or linking any evidence.	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#93
because you're asking me	Confusious	Aug 2012	#97
i don't recall asking you for anything at all.	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#109
Ok, so you're trying to prove your case	Confusious	Aug 2012	#113
I have, and it's certainly not you	independentpiney	Aug 2012	#142
Why don't you reply to the evidence	sense	Aug 2012	#122
I have argument plenty	Confusious	Aug 2012	#128
So true.	sense	Aug 2012	#110
woo peddling.	dionysus	Aug 2012	#167
Way to add	sense	Aug 2012	#169
politicians didn't create the food pyramid, dietitians/professor types did. but the ones who	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#174
I imagine I wasn't	sense	Aug 2012	#178
i understand what you're saying about the pyramid, i'm just saying you've got some of the	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#179
Indeed, I think it would be fairly easy to put together a presentation showcasing	Care Acutely	Aug 2012	#20
yeah because the fact that now 80% of kids with cancer get cured by treatments	mucifer	Aug 2012	#61
Interestingly	agent46	Aug 2012	#143
From your post, it seems you think any "antique medicine" is worthless.	flvegan	Aug 2012	#26
Personally, I would say most	Confusious	Aug 2012	#32
Willow bark, foxglove, quinine, opium, all still useful	Spider Jerusalem	Aug 2012	#38
But now we can make all those synthetically without hurting any plants.	Odin2005	Aug 2012	#44
Some, not all	Spider Jerusalem	Aug 2012	#48
Making medicines synthetically	sense	Aug 2012	#123
LOL! Here comes the "Natural good, artificial bad!" nonsense.	Odin2005	Aug 2012	#145
That's all you've ever done	sense	Aug 2012	#149
So you admit your scientific ignorance.	Odin2005	Aug 2012	#150
Anything to support	sense	Aug 2012	#154
I'm not obsfuscating, you are.	Odin2005	Aug 2012	#155
A molecule is a molecule?	sense	Aug 2012	#166
.	dionysus	Aug 2012	#168
That's who you are...	sense	Aug 2012	#170
opium. & if you think chinese medicine was/is worthless you don't know anything about it.	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#39
Yep, figured you for a woo.	Confusious	Aug 2012	#42
as i said, you have no idea what credentials people have. but namecalling in place of an argument	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#50
I never said "don't question"	Confusious	Aug 2012	#59
you said chinese medicine (en toto) was "worthless". i'm not 'pushing' chinese medicine, i'm	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#67
It's been around thousands of years	Confusious	Aug 2012	#68
"From what I've seen, and read, and watched"	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#71
You got that one thing?	Confusious	Aug 2012	#73
nih	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#78
Rhino horn?	Confusious	Aug 2012	#84
you asked for one example & i gave you one. now you want to talk about tiger penises.	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#90
You always use "western"	Confusious	Aug 2012	#94
Straw man.	sense	Aug 2012	#125
So you disagree with the world wildlife fund?	Confusious	Aug 2012	#129
Try replying to the correct post.	sense	Aug 2012	#136
Yea, well if the shoe fits	Confusious	Aug 2012	#139
Same reply to every post....	sense	Aug 2012	#144
Oh god! look at the side effects!~	Confusious	Aug 2012	#85
"The rate of adverse effects was similar in both the thunder god vine and sulfasalazine groups."	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#96
Certainly I know that	Confusious	Aug 2012	#101
i'm not a woo person.	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#107
Seems like it. nt	Confusious	Aug 2012	#114
Chinese Medicine is good for driving species into extinction from poaching.	Odin2005	Aug 2012	#45
no, that's capitalism. chinese medicine isn't all about endangered species, fyi.	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#51
LOL, what crap.	Odin2005	Aug 2012	#58
that name-calling is highly effective in convincing the converted. go team!	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#60
We killed more chinese?	Confusious	Aug 2012	#87
i see why you're having a problem; you can't read properly.	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#103
No I can read	Confusious	Aug 2012	#104
ah, my error then. no, i'll leave it stand, as it's true re modern times. also vietnamese &	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#106
Really?	Confusious	Aug 2012	#118
see the dip circa 1851? 20-30 million = opium wars/taiping rebellion. biggest population loss of	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#130
50,000 deaths due the opium wars	Confusious	Aug 2012	#132
yes, i'm blaming the western powers, for multiple reasons. the opium wars and the taiping	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#135
Guilt by association then, is it.	Confusious	Aug 2012	#140
I see the "West evil, West evil" BS has started.	Odin2005	Aug 2012	#146
Ignorance is bliss, some say.	flvegan	Aug 2012	#55
Most antique medicine was worthless. (nt)	Posteritatis	Aug 2012	#112
Homeopathic Medicines?	Ya Basta	Aug 2012	#82
The cayenne cure reminded me of these guys	Confusious	Aug 2012	#91
...	Ya Basta	Aug 2012	#119
The good (not so good) Dr had his license revoked	Confusious	Aug 2012	#126
Your comment only demonstrates your ignorance	Ya Basta	Aug 2012	#131
No, I place science first	Confusious	Aug 2012	#133
No you don't	Ya Basta	Aug 2012	#137
Bullshit	Confusious	Aug 2012	#138
LOL.. Ha ha!	Ya Basta	Aug 2012	#153
Homeopathic medicine is an oxymoron...	SidDithers	Aug 2012	#163
naturalnews and lef...	SidDithers	Aug 2012	#162
Could you have them analyzed?	Taverner	Aug 2012	#116
I probably could, but it might be expensive	derby378	Aug 2012	#158
I've always enjoyed watching the patent med vendors switch their target audiences	Posteritatis	Aug 2012	#117
Gee, back in the day Coke was made with real cocaine. People gave paregoric to infants	appleannie1	Aug 2012	#121
Don't forget Trickle Down, the ultimate snake oil.	Scuba	Aug 2012	#151
Always wondered about this one:	madamesilverspurs	Aug 2012	#152
Awesome...	SidDithers	Aug 2012	#157
Sadly there is plenty of anti-science thinking among otherwise rational people on the left.	NYC Liberal	Aug 2012	#161
Snake oil salesmen are as popular as ever	Major Nikon	Aug 2012	#172
They rail on about "big pharma" making obscene profits,	NYC Liberal	Aug 2012	#173
Although the pharmaceutical industry claims to be a high-risk business,	HiPointDem	Aug 2012	#175
And?	NYC Liberal	Aug 2012	#176
Do you have the bottle of Heroin by Bayer (for toothing infants)	Taverner	Oct 2012	#181
Ooooohh!!!	derby378	Oct 2012	#182

Giving a lecture on old-timey quack medicines tomorrow

1. What was in the bottles? Morphine, cocaine, booze, opiates? nt

2. Opiates? I think the DEA would want a word with me

4. Well, I know a lot of those old quacky meds had all kinds of stuff in 'em!

6. LOTS of alcohol!

9. bitters good for what ails you

15. They used STRYCHNINE for upset stomachs???

22. About a hundred years ago, they did

120. Our dog ate some strychinine-based fly bait when I was a kid

11. A lot of corn liquor and turpentine, I suspect. nt

12. ...~~~***BURP!***``~~~! nt

33. Ooh, ooh, I know this one!

3. One word: Radithor

5. I'd love to grab a bottle - but then again, maybe not

8. With tongs...while wearing a lead suit!!! nt

7. Radium is very bad shit.

18. Radium is probably lead to Marie Curie dying from cancer.

81. And many on the Manhattan Project.

28. It's a lot harder

75. Radium is natural, Plutonium isn't.

156. Actually...

164. Maybe true.

165. And thanks for the clarification

171. Tc, element 43

10. Eckkkkk!

17. WTF is "mesothorium"???

31. I'd guess Th233 as opposed to Th232 or Th234.

34. the old name for radium 228, which is a decay product of thorium 232.

13. Got any Holloway's Bitters?

14. I've got Hostetter's, but not Holloway's

16. The woo-woos here on DU would love for us to go back to those bad old days.

19. plenty of medicines today that are basically ineffective.

21. My not having panic attacks anymore is not any fucking placebo effect.

23. ecological fallacy

180. Okay, but that's you.

24. Even that singular naysayer conceedes that antidepressants DO work

25. where else would depression be but 'in their heads'? that doesn't mean that anti-depressants

27. LOL, never heard of seretonin?

35. please tell me how the test for low serotonin works. as you are such a scholar, i'm sure you know.

40. So the last 40 years of neuroscience is a Big Pharma conspiracy to sell pills, gotcha.

41. I said, tell me how the test for low serotonin works & when you got yours.

47. You know what you sound like? A Creationist...

52. it doesn't? oh really.... thought you were all about the science....

57. No, I'm rejecting your sophistry.

64. i've read up on it for years -- including at university. which is how i know that patients

70. The Serotonin Theory of Depression Is Collapsing

77. But the anti depressants still work. Nt.

79. depends on what you mean by 'work,' and for whom.

86. Disengenous argument.

92. not at all, but you're tiresome. it's well-known that anti-depressants don't work for a significant

95. Well, you'd have a point

98. you'd have a point -- if there were some way of determining who a 'good candidate' for treatment

99. Well, most people complaining of depression

100. <50% of that population get relief from anti-depressants. and as with any large powerful corporation

102. Which is higher then I thought

105. my argument wouldn't be any of those things. this discussion began when i stated that there

108. So you're just here to spread FUD

124. I wonder why you felt you had to post all those links, as i've not denied that chinese medicine

127. Chinese medicine is the greater part of it

134. I quoted the world wildlife fund on habitat loss being the most important cause of extinction

141. At least it's not death

159. if SSRI's don't work for you, perhaps you should get some benzo's.. i think you could use some...

148. They work for me. With my twice-a-day dose of Cymbalta

160. don't try convincing this guy... you're wasting your breath.

30. Seriously?

37. not sure what relevance your comments have to mine.

46. Let me make it easy for you

49. He/She is using the same arguments the Creationists use when denying evolution.

53. Yea I know

115. You seem to blame everything you don't

54. several hidden assumptions in there...i'll leave you to figure them out as you fancy you are so

63. I guess you didn't

111. If you think depression's a monolithic nonbiological thing you really need to stop talking

147. You appeal to this man's authority and then immediately discredit him.

177. Depressive illness is a physical illness, not a bloody "all in your head" BS!

29. I second what odin said

36. how do you know what degrees posters have?

43. Well you don't

56. oh really? your esp is poor

62. Deductive reasoning.

12. ...~BURP!``~! nt