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Thu Dec 6, 2018, 09:54 AM

Girl, 10, forced to walk five miles to school after dad hears she bullied another student

An Ohio father's decision to make his 10-year-old daughter walk miles to school as punishment for bullying is causing controversy among parents online.†

After Matt Cox of Swanton found out that his daughter was suspended from her school bus for bullying another student for the second time, he told her he wouldn't be driving her to school. She would be walking.†

Monday, Cox shared a video on Facebook of his daughter walking along a road wearing her backpack. He was trailing her in a car. He said walking five miles to school in 36-degree weather was her punishment for bullying.

"I know a lot of you parents are not going to agree with this, but that is alright because Iím doing what I feel is right to teach my daughter a lesson and to stop her from bullying," he said in the video. "Bullying is unacceptable."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/12/06/dads-controversial-punishment-bullying-walk-5-miles-school/2224173002/

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Reply Girl, 10, forced to walk five miles to school after dad hears she bullied another student (Original post)
Floyd R. Turbo Dec 6 OP
janterry Dec 6 #1
Cracklin Charlie Dec 6 #4
Zing Zing Zingbah Dec 6 #15
politicaljunkie41910 Dec 6 #20
lark Dec 6 #24
pnwmom Dec 6 #62
BigDemVoter Dec 6 #40
tblue37 Dec 6 #53
Jarqui Dec 6 #6
Hermit-The-Prog Dec 6 #43
WhiskeyGrinder Dec 6 #2
InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 6 #11
pnwmom Dec 6 #63
MineralMan Dec 6 #3
Hermit-The-Prog Dec 6 #47
exboyfil Dec 6 #5
Achilleaze Dec 6 #7
ret5hd Dec 6 #8
Fla Dem Dec 6 #9
blueinredohio Dec 6 #10
blugbox Dec 6 #12
lpbk2713 Dec 6 #13
The_jackalope Dec 6 #41
randr Dec 6 #14
ProfessorGAC Dec 6 #17
JCanete Dec 6 #18
ProfessorGAC Dec 6 #21
randr Dec 6 #32
LongtimeAZDem Dec 6 #34
randr Dec 6 #36
GulfCoast66 Dec 6 #30
JCanete Dec 6 #68
randr Dec 6 #33
Amishman Dec 6 #16
WePurrsevere Dec 6 #19
WeekiWater Dec 6 #22
Locrian Dec 6 #29
Demovictory9 Dec 6 #38
Luciferous Dec 6 #23
mercuryblues Dec 6 #25
LeftInTX Dec 6 #37
33taw Dec 6 #26
Ms. Toad Dec 6 #27
LeftInTX Dec 6 #39
Ms. Toad Dec 6 #42
Blue_true Dec 6 #28
Charlotte Little Dec 6 #31
Ms. Toad Dec 6 #44
Charlotte Little Dec 6 #49
Ms. Toad Dec 6 #56
Charlotte Little Dec 6 #59
RobinA Dec 6 #65
Charlotte Little Dec 6 #69
Devil Child Dec 6 #35
womanofthehills Dec 6 #51
Demovictory9 Dec 6 #64
GulfCoast66 Dec 6 #45
GulfCoast66 Dec 6 #46
LanternWaste Dec 6 #48
Iggo Dec 6 #50
womanofthehills Dec 6 #52
Jersey Devil Dec 6 #54
byronius Dec 6 #55
pnwmom Dec 6 #61
byronius Dec 6 #66
OhioBlue Dec 6 #71
LisaL Dec 6 #57
NoMoreRepugs Dec 6 #58
pnwmom Dec 6 #67
Raine Dec 6 #60
cynatnite Dec 6 #70

Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 09:59 AM

1. Parents should not share this on facebook

Walking is fine. My daughter and I have hiked plenty - and when she was much younger - in cold weather.

But I think it's wrong to publicize a child's mistakes. Take care of it at home, quietly.

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Response to janterry (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:03 AM

4. I have no problem with the walk to school.

But, he could have left out the public humiliation. Thatís just cruel.

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Response to Cracklin Charlie (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:50 AM

15. Same here.

I would have had a problem with the walk if it was unsupervised though because in a lot of places it is very dangerous for children to be walking by themselves due the traffic, especially in the mornings when it is dark. 36F is a warm day in the winter. That's not a big deal. The father supervised, so that was good, but I totally disagree with recording it and posting it online. I think that should have been a private family matter and not something that gets publicized. These people invite the whole world to comment on their parenting techniques when they do that. I don't know why anyone would want that headache. He is also teaching is kid that public shaming is an appropriate way to deal with people. That is often viewed as a form of bullying, so I think that this wasn't an effective punishment for bullying.

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Response to Cracklin Charlie (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 11:29 AM

20. I have no problem with what this father did. It sounds like a lesson learned that won't soon be

forgotten. This daughter will one day thank her Dad when she grows up to be a decent human being and a blessing to her community, not a burden. My parents raised nine kids on tough love, as they had been raised, and I had then and now, nothing but love and respect for them. Sure I might have been upset for a few moments or a while, but my Mother always made sure before we went to bed why she did what she did, and always told us that we would understand one day when we had kids of our own. She was right. My daughter and I talk all the time about her childhood friends whose parents were enablers by never holding them accountable for their actions. Their parents gave them too much and demanded too little of them in return. All these kids were from middle to upper class homes with Mothers and Fathers in the home, and the vast majority of them turned out to be rotten to the core. I made sure that didn't happen to mine by making them accountable for their actions, and not allowing them to talk back or be disrespectful to their parents or other persons of authority in their lives. I also taught them to treat others as they would like to be treated. They are model citizens, have steady jobs, families of their own, and we talk and laugh about things that they did growing up all the time, and the consequences.

The best compliment my children can pay me is when I see them modeling my behaviors with their children. It's the greatest compliment one can receive as a parent. I get compliments about my grown kids all the time, particularly from those who don't have such a close relationship with their own adult children. I just tell them that being a good parent is the hardest job you will ever have as my mother use to tell us. Many times its a thankless job. But if you hang in there and be consistent and fair; and punish out of love and concern, and not out of anger, your kids will understand one day. I just didn't expect the "one day" to come so soon.

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Response to Cracklin Charlie (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 11:43 AM

24. Sounds like the kid got the bullying from home.

Last edited Fri Dec 7, 2018, 09:10 AM - Edit history (1)

If he had just posted it to the accounts of kids she bullied, I'd be down with that. Show them their pain was recognized and appropriately punished. I'd have put a notice at the end that if she bullied them again, please let him know.

My daughter was always kind, loyal & considerate, but hung out one year with 2 alpha girls who were bullies and who were on her cheer team. At her birthday party, these 2 started in on one of Amanda's old friends who had gained weight and had an acne attack. A lot of the other girls followed their lead. Amanda came to me sobbing about this, because she couldn't get them to stop. She really tried before coming to me. I called the girls' mothers, asked them to come get them and sat them down, apart from the other children, where they had to stay until their moms' came. At the next cheer practice, one of their dads' came to me asking what happened (he had joint custody). He thought it was just normal behavior and laughed it off. I told him it wasn't normal, Amanda never ever was mean or disloyal to anyone, so no. Parents set and enforce the expectations. He talked to her teachers, realized the problem, reset expectations, moved her to a new school for a new start and took her to counseling. She ended up being an ok person.

Edit - fixed typo

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Response to lark (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 09:41 PM

62. That was my reaction. She learned bullying from him.

And then he was embarrassed by her getting the note from school, so he decided to publicly humiliate her.

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Response to Cracklin Charlie (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 02:32 PM

40. Same here.

I agree that walking isn't too bad a punishment, but as you said, the public humiliation could have been left out. . . .

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Response to Cracklin Charlie (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 04:35 PM

53. +1. nt

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Response to janterry (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:07 AM

6. I agree completely

I'm all for a parent getting involved to help stop their son or daughter from being a bully.
But publicly branding a 10 year old for a second bullying transgression with a Facebook post seems way over the top. That is maybe an option of last resort when all else has failed.

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Response to janterry (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 03:01 PM

43. makes her a target

Beyond the public humiliation, which is bullying, posting it on facebook just makes her a target for shady creatures.

The father is bragging about bullying his daughter for bullying. The bragging is more important to him than stopping to think about her safety.

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:01 AM

2. Well, it's obvious where she learned it. Making her walk isn't bullying, but filming and posting it

on social media certainly is.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:33 AM

11. My thought exactly!!

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 09:42 PM

63. Exactly. And I'm wondering if he's a bullying narcissist who likes attention. nt

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:03 AM

3. The reactions here to this will be interesting, I think.

Here's mine. I don't know the child. I don't know the father. He did not put the girl in any danger, since he followed her, and the article explains that she did not walk the entire five miles on any one day.

Teaching object lessons is a proven method of making the lesson clear.

I'm not opposed to that father's object lesson for his daughter. I assume he knows her character and tendencies better than anyone else does. A five-mile walk, broken up into several segments on different days, will not harm the child. At age 10, I used to hike farther than that on a regular basis for recreation.

I hope she learns the lesson about bullying. We'll never know, though.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 03:06 PM

47. bully brags about bullying

The walk is not the problem; publication is.

He put the girl in danger through publication on facebook. That's not going away and he can't follow her around every second -- online or off.

The bragging about the punishment appears to be more important to him than correcting her behavior.

As to the walk, at that age I walked more than that just to pick up soft drink bottles to get money to buy comic books. 5 miles would just be a side-trip through the woods on the way home from school.

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:05 AM

5. He should have walked with her

He could have used the time to get to know his daughter better. That is one of my fondest memories of my time with my kids - taking long walks with them and our dogs. I regret we don't do this nearly as often since my older daughter has her own home, husband, and dogs; and my younger daughter is sleeping when I walk (she works 11 pm-7:30 am).

Putting it on Facebook on the other hand seems to be TMI.

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:07 AM

7. Young whippersnappers today. Huff. Why when I was her age...





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Response to Achilleaze (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:14 AM

8. When you were her age...

the universe was still in the early stages of expanding. The equivalent distance today would be about 3 feet 4 inches by my calculations!

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:15 AM

9. I frankly do not have any problem with making her walk the 5 miles to school.

I did when I first read the headline, I was concerned for her safety. But he followed her all the way. I think it was an effective punishment. Hopefully she learned a lesson; there are consequences for our actions.

Having said that, I do not approve of him posting the situation on FB, Instagram any social media. This was between the girl and her parents. There is no reason for shaming her to the entire world. Whatever happened to keeping things in the family?

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:27 AM

10. I'm agreeing with these posts

It's okay to make her walk, evidently if he talked to her the first time she bullied it didn't work. Kids learn their lessons different ways. But he shouldn't have posted it online. I always told my husband if he said or did something I felt was wrong I wouldn't say anything to him there. I'll wait until we are alone because our business is our business.

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:42 AM

12. Seems most people are in the same boat.

The walk isn't a problem. He could have walked with her and talked to her about it, but he at least followed her there.

But posting it on social media for the world to see is kinda like bullying, dad.

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:43 AM

13. The public humiliation could make her vulnerable to bullying herself.




Other bullies could taunt her knowing she would want to stay out of trouble.
Dad can't make those others walk to school.


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Response to lpbk2713 (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 02:34 PM

41. Good point! nt

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:43 AM

14. Parental bully is enabling bully daughter

Forcing a daughter to walk is bullying. The fruit is falling not far from that tree.
The walk is not so bad as the shaming.

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Response to randr (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:56 AM

17. Didn't You Just Contradict Yourself

The walk is bullying, but not so bad as the shaming? Is it bullying or not? Five miles isn't the Long March.

We do agree that leaving it off FB would have been appropriate.

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Response to ProfessorGAC (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 11:21 AM

18. Actually physical punishment, that can be forced upon your daughter because you have


all the power, is in my opinion a level of bullying. 5 miles in cold weather is no stroll in the park. The associations are all wrong too. Its not about health. Walking this instance is not a good, but a punishment. Also, nothing about this is an attempt to generate empathy in the child, because this again, is just punishment.

I'm not sure how this fosters anything in this child but bitterness, and generally speaking punishment teaches the value of not getting caught. It isn't restorative.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #18)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 11:35 AM

21. Walking To School Is Physical Punishment?

I walked to school nearly every day where it wasn't raining buckets or dangerously cold.

Admittedly, it was a little over a mile, not five miles, but i don't recall that seeming like physical abuse.

As to whether it's effective, i have to agree. It might work for some kids, and might not for others.

Last thought: Walking is not a good but a punishment. So, are you suggesting that no punishment is ever warranted for her behavior? Seems like that is the path you are taking me down.

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Response to ProfessorGAC (Reply #21)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 01:48 PM

32. I do not consider walking a punishment

I think bullish behavior is learned through example.
The fathers intentions, to punish his child, were compounded by the shame he laid on her by following.
His actions cause me to think that the girls bullying behavior is a learned pattern from home.
I actually think "punishment" is rather antiquated when it comes to teaching our children proper social behavior.
She should have been made to confront her actions with an apology and perhaps further counseling.

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Response to randr (Reply #32)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 01:52 PM

34. The "shame he laid on her by following"?

He followed her to make sure she arrived safely. Can you imagine the uproar if he had made he walk by herself?

There's a lot of manufactured outrage happening here.

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Response to LongtimeAZDem (Reply #34)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 02:13 PM

36. I don't see it that way

If my father had "made" me walk to school while following, I would have felt shamed.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #18)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 01:33 PM

30. Physical punishment? Walking to School.

I guess you think making them mow the yard is child abuse!

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #30)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:33 PM

68. I think that when you frame something as punishment, like say, exercise, which a lot of

people do have a hard time doing already it IS at that point punishment, and framing it as such is part of my problem with this because of that connotation. If you want to make exercise a rewarding thing that one should do because it makes them feel good, I'd suggest not using it as a stick.

And none of that changes the fact that all this teaches is that you shouldn't make somebody mad who has more power than you do, because they can make you do whatever they want, but don't worry, you'll be able to too one day, and justify it as teaching a lesson. I don't think its the most effective way to educate children.

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Response to ProfessorGAC (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 01:48 PM

33. The shaming is worse, it is the root of the problem

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:53 AM

16. I have no problem with any of this

Forced physical activity and social pressure are effective parenting tools and far better than violence

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 11:23 AM

19. The only problem I have with this is his making...

what to me is a private family matter, so very public. That part is OTT.
his daughter was suspended from her school bus for bullying another student for the second time...

Toledo ABC affiliate WTVG reports that the five-mile walk was broken up over the girl's three-day suspension...


If this was the second time she was caught bullying and the school suspended her for 3 days I don't think the 'walk a couple of miles to school' punishment, even in 36F weather, is unreasonable. As a kid, and more so once in HS, walking a mile or two to and/or from school or activity was the norm for my friends and I. My dad, or a neighborhood parent, driving me/us in was a privilege and usually only happened if the upstate BY weather was awful or we ran late.

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 11:41 AM

22. No problem with the punishment if she is healthy.

Dad, get off facebook.

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Response to WeekiWater (Reply #22)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 01:26 PM

29. but it was uphill! both ways! ;) - n/t

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Response to Locrian (Reply #29)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 02:30 PM

38. lol

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 11:41 AM

23. People need to stop publicly shaming their kids. The punishment itself was enough.

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 12:07 PM

25. I made my daughter do the same thing

for a different reason. She was acting up on the bus. Jumping up and down, getting out of her seat, etc.. The 3rd time they suspend you for a day. The 2nd notice, I informed her that I would make her walk home from school, if it happened again. Apparently she did not believe me, she did it again. Once we got past the dangerous intersection I stopped the car and told her to get out and start walking. Don't forget your backpack. I drove behind her, just as this Dad did.

A woman coming from the other direction and asked my daughter if she needed help, she pointed to me. The lady stopped next to me to let me know she was just checking on her. I told her, yeah, she got kicked off the bus, she's learning her lesson. The lady chuckled and drove off.


She was never a problem on the bus again. Hopefully for his child, he will have the same result.


As for recording it and posting? that option wasn't available for me. I don't know if I would have or not. I can see why the Dad did. He did not expect it to go viral, as it did. Perhaps he was thinking of giving her a taste of her own medicine. I suppose he could have driven her home and spanked her, that surely would have cured her bullying problem.

As for my kid? At 28 years old she has a bachelor and Master's degree. Working on her 2nd Master's. Earns about 75,000 a year and has plans to get her PHD afterwards. Now I wonder how much further she would have gone in life if I hadn't made her walk home that day and take to heart that there are negative consequences for negative actions.

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Response to mercuryblues (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 02:27 PM

37. You're lucky this worked!!!

I had a wild one and I tried stuff like this and he just kept repeating this stuff.
I kept thinking, "How low can this go?"
His psychiatrist and teachers didn't seem concern.

Finally, we tested him for drugs.
Test came back positive for THC. All of sudden, his doc did a 180 and put him in rehab.

(We knew he was huffing glue, but wouldn't admit it till rehab. He was huffing everything and we couldn't get every single household product locked)

He improved after that...Has a master's degree and is an architect.

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 12:24 PM

26. I am really glad he followed her home. I do worry that it makes physical activity

..a punishment. Walking should be a positive experience and encouraged. I donít like the social media portion of it either. I think maybe some other type of activity to work on the bullying might be useful.

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 12:38 PM

27. On familiy trips, we regularly got booted out of the car for a walk

wiht 5 of us in the back of a station wagon, there were plenty of cries of "Mom, make him stop touching me!" When my parents got tired of the squabbles, they tossed us out of the car and drove about a quarter mile ahead (back when it was relativley safe to let a child walk 1/4 mile unattended), and waited for us to catch up.

Good approach - except for the public shaming via posting the video on social media.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #27)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 02:31 PM

39. I had fighter kids in my car

I would pull over and since Texas is hot, this was the punishment.
They would stop fighting, but as soon as I started the car, they would fight again!

Then I got in a wreck. (Not my fault. Not related to their arguing) My car was totaled.

Replaced it with a mini-van and the fighting stopped. Go figure!!!!

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #39)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 02:52 PM

42. We had a VW bus

That didn't stop the fighting - fingers still liked to creep over the back of the seat and into hair, for example.

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 12:51 PM

28. I would have driven her to school if I were her dad.

A slow drive where I lectured her ass on proper social conduct and told her that I would be having weekly conferences with her teachers to discuss her behavior in class.

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 01:34 PM

31. I loath Social Media used as punishment for kids in general

But honestly, it's really not that much different than the parents who make their kids where signs around their necks to school and/or stand out in public with the signs as punishment.

https://www.tristatehomepage.com/news/national/florida-dad-makes-son-wear-im-a-bully-sign/1151747828

https://wnep.com/2018/09/19/mom-makes-fifth-grade-son-wear-i-am-a-bully-shirt-to-school-as-punishment/

And then there are the parents who really take it too far: https://www.oddee.com/item_99844.aspx

But some public shaming can be very effective. It's kind of how we have a civilized society to begin with. If no one felt shamed for their actions as they grow up and learn to become part of a functioning society, we'd have a lot more crime and chaos than we do. The idea of social acceptance has to be taught. Other than sociopaths, most humans can and do feel empathy. Children just have to be taught how to use that ability and sometimes punished, even publicly shamed, to really drive the lesson home. Hopefully, this girl will learn her lesson and never bully anyone again.

As for the walking, totally not harsh. Fitness is good for kids and she didn't have to walk the full five miles in one go at it, so no biggie other than embarrassment perhaps.

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Response to Charlotte Little (Reply #31)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 03:01 PM

44. Public shaming is no better than corporal punishment

It teaches kids that once they are bigger/have more power it is socially acceptable to hit or shame people to get your way. Kinda the heart of the message this girl has apparently already learned since at least the latter, and often the former are at theheart of bullying.

Your message kind of reminds me of the Christians I once had a conversation with - whose response to the prompt, "What would happen if all the churches disappeared," was - with a straight face - the crime rate would skrocket. Their view (apparently) was that it is only the god-fearing imposed by churches that keeps us inn line.

If it takes external public shaming to maintain a civilized society, there's not much hope of maintaining one. There are far better ways of teaching children about empathy than punishing them using the very behavior we hope they will learn is wrong - and if it takes external shaming, we've pretty much given up on teaching empathy as opposed to teaching fear of public shaming.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #44)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 03:44 PM

49. First off

and foremost, I'm not a Christian and I don't believe in corporal punishment. I also clearly stated that I don't agree with using social media to punish children. I'm simply making an argument that I find valid.

Public shaming is not necessarily bullying. Sarah Huckabee Sanders was not bullied when she was asked to leave a restaurant. Stephen Miller and Kirstjen Nielsen were not bullied when the protesters shamed them in a public Mexican restaurant. Racists are not being bullied by being shamed and filmed and spread all over the internet.

Public shaming is necessary and it does work whether or not you're comfortable with it: https://www.thenation.com/article/the-social-shaming-of-racists-is-working/

When I was child, teachers made misbehaving children go up in front of the class and stand in the corner while the rest of us snickered behind their backs. Completely common practice. Same thing when my high school used to force students who were suspended to sit in a separate area on the bleachers during school assembly. It was to shame them and teach them a lesson.

Whether or not it worked, I don't have any concrete evidence. But I know, as a child, I never want to be told to go to the corner. And as a teenager, I NEVER wanted to be seated in the "suspended during the school year" section. So, it worked with me.

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Response to Charlotte Little (Reply #49)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 05:00 PM

56. All of what you describe is bullying, and not necessary.

It encourages people to believe that bullying is the way to coerce behavior - and to some extent, it is successful in coercing behavor - in the same way the Christians I was speaking with believe that the external control (be it God or public shaming) is the onlly thing standing between a civilized society and chaos. It does absolutely nothing to help one develop an interal, self-regulated sense of good and bad behavior - because bad behavior is what some external source says is bad.

Today it's racism that is bad - and racists being shamed. It could just as easily be behavior that you and I believe is good - like voting to fund universal health care (with the shaming being done by bullies on the other side. It has been used by the other side already for - for example - adultry (I'm sure you're aware of the Scarlet Letter), or being married to a same-gender partner, or one from a different race or country).

Coercing behavior because you have more power (or the popular vote) on your side doen't change attitudes or encourage self-regulation of behavior - all it does (to the extent it works) is coerce conforming behavior. Which you seem to like when you agree with the type of behavior being coerced. I suspect you might not feel the same if you were the target of what you believe is unjustified shaming about something you believe is appropriate behavior.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #56)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 06:34 PM

59. You're entitled to your opinion

But the behavior of public shaming is not bullying. You do realize that many children who are bullied are bullied privately, not publicly, yes? And unless you consider protesting a form of bullying (which you're entitled to believe), speaking up to racists and others for their bad behavior in public is in fact effective and I'd argue necessary.

By the way, I don't find "bothsidesism" credible. It won't work with me. Racism is literally the intent to do harm to others who are of a different race, be it denying them equal opportunities or actually committing physical violence onto them. Racism is ALWAYS bad and has ALWAYS been bad with horrific consequences (1930s come to mind, of course). So, trying to argue that it's just an ideology that can be compared to universal healthcare or same sex marriage, etc. is really odd. You cannot compare racism to anything you listed, actually. So, you're on your own with that.

As for my liking "the type of behavior being coerced." You're right. I do like it when someone hurting someone else is "coerced" into not doing so. While I'm not religious, I find value in some of what's in The Ten Commandments for example, in particular, "thou shall not kill" and "thou shall not steal." I would prefer a society that teaches their children that killing, stealing, etc. is in fact wrong because it can and does harm others. Nothing is black and white, so every case of bad behavior should be considered as such - you know, like they do in a court of law? Or in the case of children, parents should have the discretion to teach them lessons as they see fit, even if I don't agree with the behavior...of the parents. Of course, as I mentioned (and provided a link) in my original post in this thread, parents can go to the extreme. While some may think the girl being told to walk to school while her father posts it on FB extreme, others don't. Difference of opinion.

Speaking of, you really seem very displeased with the opposing opinions in respect to this topic. If you haven't already, perhaps you can become an activist for children's rights, focusing on your disapproval of children being publicly shamed by their parents or teachers or pastors or babysitters or cops or (fill in the blank).


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Response to Charlotte Little (Reply #49)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:17 PM

65. Here's Concrete Evidence

My second grade teacher made me stand in the corner because I wrote ďI love you RandyĒ on a piece of paper. Iím standing up there wondering what was the big deal. Then another kid misbehaves and she sends him up to stand with me. So we start making faces back and forth, kind of enjoying ourselves, and she sent
ANOTHER kid up there. At that point we were off to the races. I never understood what I did wrong, the corner bit made no sense, and the teacher made me queen of the classroom by giving me a team up in front of the room. So no, it didnít work. Or stop my crush on Randy.

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Response to RobinA (Reply #65)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:45 PM

69. That's a very cute story, actually

I believe I was in fourth grade (or there about) when two teachers shamed me verbally in front of the other students. I was talking and not doing my classwork and I'd been warned. Since I didn't heed the warning, they decided to call me on my behavior. My cheeks felt hot and I was definitely embarrassed. Never had that happen again and not because I wasn't Miss Chatty Box going forward, but because I heeded warnings there on out, zipped it, and did my classwork. Never got stuck in the corner, though. That was reserved for repeat offenders and usually far worse offenses (pulling someone's hair, throwing paper or pens, talking back to the teacher, etc.)

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 01:54 PM

35. I have no issue with the punishment

I do take issue with parents and the need to thrust their kids into the social media spotlight. Seeking likes and acknowledgement for routine parental responsibilities is very tiring.

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Response to Devil Child (Reply #35)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 04:28 PM

51. I take issue with it all - including the walking

All this is going to do is make the girl more angry. The question is: what was going on in her life that she feels so bad about herself that she needs to bully other people. Her father is the answer. The fact that he would advertise this makes me wonder in what other ways has he been a really bad dad. No decent person would advertise this to others. Why does he want to shame his daughter?

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Response to womanofthehills (Reply #51)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 09:53 PM

64. 5 miles is one hour of walking at 12 minutes a mile. Slower, maybe 1.5 hours

Once won't kill her

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 03:03 PM

45. I got in trouble aftrr school when I was 12 or so. Got in a fight.

My punishment? Every morning before work dad would haul out 2-3 big ass pieces of firewood. After school I had to take the sledge, wedges and ax and split them up till small enough for decent firewood. This went on for over a month. Kept me too busy to fight!

The upside: I did not get in trouble again and he got our years supply of firewood split. And I have had decent shoulders ever since. I actually learned to enjoy splitting wood. Not sure I could do it now!

Social media was not an issue in the 70s but you can bet my friends all knew about it!

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)


Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 03:10 PM

48. If five miles isn't a real punishment as narrated to us by replies...

then I'm looking forward to the same replies tomorrow telling us about their own five (plus) mile walk to work in the morning.

And as delicious as those blatant untruths will be, it's the creative rationalizations why, although it's not a bad thing (in fact, good heart-health), they will not do it themselves (can't walk and film yourself at the same time is the freebie excuse I'm offering-- order today and get two mailed for the price of one, and free shipping on both excuses).

(90% chance all will be a variation on why they will hold themselves to a lower standard than they hold others to; and calm down fellas... no need to get hysterical or begin acting irrational).

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 04:22 PM

50. Punishment fetishists are gonna love this one.

I ain't even reading the rest of the replies.

I don't even want to know who thinks this is a good thing.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #50)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 04:32 PM

52. Agree with you

Why so many on here into punishment?

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 04:54 PM

54. He made her walk uphill, both ways

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 04:55 PM

55. My parenting method was very different than this, and is demonstrably effective.

I was the child of a functioning psychopath who not only engaged in physical abuse but also loved the thrill of public humiliation. I still carry the scars inside and out.

As a parent of two academically-gifted and very emotionally intelligent young adults, let me share my method for dealing with any and all issues like this (and there were a few) --

The Long Talk.

Sitting down privately and talking about 1) the history of human development and the concept of empathy as it related to whatever the issue was, 2) the science (psychological, biological, quantum mechanics) of social behavior as relevant, and 3) the long-term impact of choices we make on everything and everyone around us -- and all in terms appropriate for their age -- was extremely effective in all circumstances. I always tried to encourage, never criticize, and I took whatever time was necessary to get my kids to understand how others felt, and the dynamics of how their actions could spread like ripples in a pond for good or for ill.

It wasn't boring, it wasn't threatening (not even subtly), but it was Information They Needed, to grow up and be happy and learn to help.

It was a lot of work. And it took an enormous amount of patience. And I ran into parents who parented the way the guy in the above story did, or recommended whipping or spanking or the closet or some other form of isolation, and they would routinely dismiss my method as either unworkable or Too Much Work --

But it worked. I have the evidence. I can prove conclusively that unconditional love and acceptance and parenting by teaching and example are effective, non-trauma-inducing, and utterly worthwhile.

I will admit that there were times when the prospect of the Long Talk was feared by my children. I'm certain the hour or two it took was viewed as the Longest Moment Of Their Lives. But goddamn it, it worked every time.

No spanking. No yelling (well, once, and I apologized). No time outs, no taking away the X-box, no grounding, no humiliation. Just Talk.

And that is the essence of the revenge I have taken on my own parents. Their methods die with me. And my kids have both solemnly promised never to allow their children to suffer the slings and arrows of physical or emotional abuse.

Work. Do the goddamned work. Spend the goddamned time. Gimmicks and mind games and forced labor can be just as damaging as the belt.

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Response to byronius (Reply #55)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 09:24 PM

61. This is a wonderful post. Thank you. Yes, a lot of parents are lazy and want to take shortcuts

to getting the behavior they want. Or they don't know any better than to do to their kids what was done to them. So they yell, and hit, and humiliate. And, short term, that might appear to work.

You, on the other hand, patiently did the work and spent the time. And I'm sure your children love you very much.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #61)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:25 PM

66. Having a partner smarter than me helped.

We were committed from day one -- that was our lucky break in life.

Sometimes it's messier and a lot harder. My experience with my parents made me want a steady-state, grounded, unconditional love kind of family, and I talked my way into it somehow. Kismet.

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Response to byronius (Reply #55)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:56 PM

71. Thank you for this! I try to parent like you. I do really well sometimes at explaining things

and fail at the work or having the proper insight or confidence to be fully aware of the situation at other times. I was blessed with a very good kid. He is emotionally mature and intelligent so having these types of conversations do seem to be fruitful. I think it is important to recognize however, that not all children will respond the same way to every parenting style and not every parent has the knowledge base or empathetic nature to be able to explain things as well as you describe. Both of my parents are very intelligent, kind and empathetic, however they were very young parents, just out of high school, dealing with their own traumas in life, peer pressures and financial worries and I don't think they were equipped then to have those kinds of conversations.

One other parenting tactic that I strive to do better at is recognizing and being aware of what they know, have been made aware of, taught, etc. Coaching youth sports has been an eyeopener for me. Telling a tee-ball player to "back that up", translates to "back up" and they shuffle their little feet backward or telling a team to "be on their toes" and watch their confused little faces as they comply with your orders and stand on their toes. lol. Now that my son is older, most of the kids on his team understand most of the jargon, but I did have one little boy in basketball, when I kept ordering the kids to "get their own rebound", He finally asked exasperatedly, "where is the rebound?"

I do catch myself sometimes admonishing my child for doing something and then realize, I haven't really taught him or enforced the desired behavior. My big downfall is table manners. We don't sit at a table as a family very often for meals. They are mostly in front of the TV, and squeezed in between household chores, homework, volunteer work, sports, etc. So when we do sit down and I admonish him for chewing with his mouth open, or eating too fast, elbows on table, etc.... I have to stop and realize I need to do better at instilling table manners rather than admonish him for something I let him do every day when we're not sitting together at the table.

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 05:06 PM

57. I have a problem with publicly shaming a kid on facebook.

Is that really such a good idea?

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 05:12 PM

58. 100% with the Father. He followed her, she was in no danger and learned actions have consequences.

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Response to NoMoreRepugs (Reply #58)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:31 PM

67. Including with him publicly humiliating her on Facebook?

What if you knew he did it because HE is a narcissistic bully who wanted attention for HIMSELF?

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 07:34 PM

60. The walking was fine but posting it

online was going too far IMO.

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Response to Floyd R. Turbo (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:55 PM

70. Fuck that guy...

Five miles in 36 degree weather?

Sorry, that's abuse as far as I'm concerned.

There are far better ways to teach a lesson about bullying without subjecting a 10 year old girl to this.

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