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Wed Dec 5, 2018, 05:38 PM

Robert Mueller - and a REEEEEAAALLY LONG Long Game?

Something just occurred to me, watching the news coverage start heading back to Mueller-Land.

The talk and attempted dot-connecting includes Mueller's remarkably lenient treatment of Michael Flynn. Mueller's sentencing statement has a whale of a lot of redactions, which raise suspicions on their own. But there's that strong endorsement of how cooperative Flynn has been with all their investigations - at least three that we know of, one of which IS a CRIMINAL investigation. For coughing it up and telling the truth. Which I don't think Mueller would be feeling so generous if he hadn't had multiple opportunities to verify whatever came out of Flynn's mouth. What Flynn has shared with him must have passed the honesty test, multiple times. AND the smell test. I'm not a lawyer but even I can tell, from this, that Flynn must have coughed up A LOT. And of a high quality, too.

This recommendation, from Robert Mueller, seems an awful lot like a reward for good behavior. Or in this case, a VERY sweet reward for some EXQUISITELY good behavior. He must have given Mueller the keys to the car, the garage, the whole mansion, the grounds, and the whole freakin' neighborhood. To get this kind of Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free card! For this level of offense and criminality that was also outlined in the Mueller statement. It evidently packed such a punch that it begat two additional investigations, again - one of them criminal.

Is there a message here - to future Executive Branchers (or beyond)? To future Presidents and wannabe Presidents? To the rest of the federal government? DON'T LIE. And DON'T think you can lie your way out. Tell the TRUTH. It's to YOUR advantage to tell the truth. Truth is good. Truth is REWARDED. That would be a helluva statement, planting a flag on a page of American history to illustrate beyond any doubt the value of telling the truth. What a way to underscore a moral to the story: Lie and fuck around like Paul Manafort has, and you ARE facing prison for the rest of your life. Tell the truth and help the prosecutors and you really could get a Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free card. Seriously.

A cautionary tale for the ages, seems to me. Perhaps, a message to future politicians who are tempted to game the system.

Thoughts?

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Response to calimary (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 05:45 PM

1. The law is what says don't lie and cheat the American people.

Your question is interesting because it is not stupid. We do have reason to assume they need to be hit with a stick or they will break the law. But in any other era, if you think of it, that would be a ridiculous question.

That situation is really astonishing. People know they're not supposed to lie. Except trumpers.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 10:43 PM

3. Yes, one certainly would think the fact that it's the law would be a deterrent all by itself.

But then again, we seem to be dealing with people who either are used to getting away with it because they always HAVE gotten away with it, OR they're in close proximity to such individuals who have always gotten away with everything/anything and they assume that such luck is transferable to them, or is some sort of contagion, or "well, HE does it all the time, so why can't I?" Or "they've never gotten caught. Must not be that big a deal then, 'eh?"

Thanks, btw. I try not to say dumb stuff. Sometimes I even succeed!


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Response to calimary (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 10:47 PM

4. No, it's actually a really smart question because most people wouldn't think to ask it because at

most other times in history, it would have been self-evident.

But not now!

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Response to calimary (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 7, 2018, 02:21 AM

18. For so many of these people

lying is like breathing. It is a way of life. Having never been held accountable, I suppose they presume they'll get away with it this time as well. Manafort is a career con artist. He probably doesn't know how to be anything else.

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Response to calimary (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 06:09 PM

2. I'm of two minds on this

I understand the need of a Mueller to tempt other guilty parties to come forward and tell the truth about the 2016 debacle. This is a complex case and involved many players.

However, the idea of General Flynn walking free sticks in my craw because the man deserves a jail sentence for his treachery, a man who vowed to serve and protect but then acted out of vindictiveness (his dismissal at the hands of President Obama), cozied up to Putin and his operatives, involved himself in plans to kidnap an American resident and worked a plan to score big with a nuclear deal in the Middle East. All in support of a Russian asset--the Trumpster.

As I said over at TPM, the American public will need to be thoroughly informed about the details on all these compromised individuals. I would prefer sooner rather than later but I agree Mueller is obviously looking at the long-game, bit by bit dismantling the conspiracy and shaping a narrative.

Or as someone reminded me today: How do you eat an entire elephant?

Obviously not in one gulp but with careful, individual forkfuls.

Washing those bites down with wine might help.

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Response to peggysue2 (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 10:59 PM

5. I totally get that, peggysue2.

My husband and I have been talking about it. He says the judge will probably take Mueller's recommendations seriously and "sentence" Flynn accordingly. I think he's right. But if I were that judge? No such thing.

I think it's pretty doggone important that Flynn FULLY understand what he's done, how he's sinned, and how - as the retired Lt. Col. Ralph Peters said to Ari Melber on MSNBC today - "Mike Flynn betrayed his country." And he added "in my view, this is treason." I don't care how much he cooperated and how many tips he shared with Robert Mueller that turned out to be worth their weight in gold-pressed latinum. I don't care how many outstanding and rock-solid sterling leads and corroborations he provided. I think he STILL needs to sit on ice for awhile and really seriously think about it. If it were up to me, I'd sentence him to at least a few months in federal prison. I think the most recent recommended maximum was zero to six months. I'd go for all six. Just to make it clear these were STILL dreadfully punishable offenses. And he should be given at least SOME punishment for them.

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Response to calimary (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:47 AM

6. Wait 'til the Army is Done with Him

I think we may get some "justice" when the Army addresses his crimes, to which he has already plead guilty. I would think Flynn will stripped of his rank and lose all his pension and benefits.

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Response to calimary (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 03:46 PM

10. We're on the same page, calimary

And I agree with Peters: the man betrayed his country. And then he walks? Aghhhhh.

Plus his son is still out there badmouthing the country and The Rule of Law. Maybe The General was willing to go belly up to save himself but the wing-nuts still see him as a 'martyr to the cause.'

That's why at some point in time the American public needs to be fully cognizant of how far and how deep these players were willing to go to win, play in the mobster gutter and enrich themselves at the country's expense. If the max is 6 months, Flynn should serve every single day and yes, as suggested down thread be stripped of his pension and forfeit any other ill-gained assets.

He betrayed his country, willingly and from what I can tell, absolute forethought.

Once upon a time that meant something. It still should.

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Response to peggysue2 (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 03:47 PM

11. Whoops!

RustyWheels is upthread. I agree with the comments there, too.

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Response to peggysue2 (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 03:51 PM

12. I need to see where

his cooperation leads. If it brings down anyone with the name trump (even by marriage), I'll be sleeping just fine.

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Response to peggysue2 (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 7, 2018, 01:18 AM

13. Who would you rather have get off scot free? Michael Flynn

or the Trumps and Kushners?

If Flynn provides key evidence against them, I'm fine with his sentence.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #13)

Fri Dec 7, 2018, 01:31 AM

14. Personally?

I'd like to see them all locked up. However, if Flynn skating means damning and irrefutable evidence against the WH Crime Family then I'll swallow the bile and move on.

Still. A three-star general, a man who led rallies of 'Lock Her Up!', all the while selling out his own country to foreign adversaries.

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Response to peggysue2 (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 7, 2018, 01:45 AM

15. Bob Mueller got the mega mobster John Gotti, nicknamed "Teflon John"

by allowing a man who murdered 19 people to get off with only 5 years in exchange for his damning testimony.

But he got Gotti.

This is what gives me hope about Trump.

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Response to calimary (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:52 AM

7. I think the message is twofold -

To future senior level executives, and current. It would be incredible if Ivanka and/or Jared decide to come clean to avoid jail time (they have little ones) and turn on dear old dad.

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Response to calimary (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 11:23 AM

8. As the mob would say: He sang like a boid.

Mueller had the goods on Flynn's adult son. That's when Flynn flipped, as I recall.

Prison strikes fear in the hearts of all of us, except hardened repeat criminals, I guess.

What EVER made them think that they could get away with criminal actions like this, without being held legally accountable? The only reason I can think of is...this is the way they've been operating for years, always getting away with it. So they had no reason to think that government people would catch on, or if they did, would be smart enough to get the goods on them. They must really think the government and politicians are dufuses, or able to be threatened or bribed not to do anything.

It shocks the conscience to realize what went on with these guys. All the while calling for others to be imprisoned for crimes that didn't exist! The chutzpah is staggering.

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Response to calimary (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 03:22 PM

9. Robert Mueller: Here's what to expect in Friday's court filings on Paul Manafort and Michael Cohen

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/12/06/robert-mueller-friday-court-filings-paul-manafort-michael-cohen/2224334002/

The Flynn, Manafort, and Cohen cases, taken together, will tell a very interesting story!

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 7, 2018, 02:14 AM

16. Going to be an interesting day

Fingers are crossed.

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Response to calimary (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2018, 02:15 AM

17. so if he recommends nothing for Cohen

Then thats bad for trump? Because it means Cohen is cooperating?

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