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Wed Dec 5, 2018, 04:57 PM

When the Music's Over

Let's take a look at some of the personality aspects from Robert Hare's checklist for diagnosing psychopathy. As we look through them, it is possible that you will have a good idea who this essay will focus on. This is not the complete list, but it is pretty close to it.

Glib and superficial charm
grandiosity
need for stimulation
pathological lying
manipulative
lack of remorse
shallow affect
lack of empathy
parasitic lifestyle
poor behavioral controls
sexual promiscuity
impulsive
failure to take responsibility for own actions


A couple quick points, before we go on. Dr. Hare focuses on psychopathy, meaning an organic personality type. “Sociopath” is basically the same, but considers childhood environmental factors. These are distinct from the current Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders' “Anti-Social Personality Disorder,” which includes them under ASPD for insurance purposes.

Second, as explained in detail in Dr. Bandy Lee's “The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump,” which contains essays by 27 of the top mental health professionals in the United States, psychopathy/ sociopathy is a disorder that can be identified without actually interviewing the subject. Indeed, because of the pathological lying, self-reporting does not tend to be accurate.

One needs only to look at the very public documentation to identify the essence of Trump's being. His “charm” that attracts 25% of voters to the cult of his personality is too shallow to qualify as “superficial.” Grandiosity is always on display. The need for stimulation is found in his obsessive tweeting. And on and on.

This brings us to a question that I was discussing with some friends on this forum a couple of days ago: how can we expect Trump to react to the pressures that Mr. Mueller's investigation are increasingly placing upon Trump? Some, though not all, of the above list come into play. We cannot expect, for example, to see any signs of remorse, or indications that Donald will take any responsibility for his own actions. We can, on the other hand, anticipate a combination of his poor behavioral controls and his impulsive actions. The synergy of these is, of course, something that the investigators welcome.

Now let's look at two of the related pressures that Trump is feeling. By no coincidence, they are of the two branches of the Trump-Russian scandal. First, Michael Cohen exposed the surface of Trump's business dealings with the Russian government. Next, the General Flynn filings indicate an on-going investigation of what, in this case, is commonly referred to as “collusion.”

That pressure is made greater by what Trump is unsure of. Neither he or his legal team know what all Flynn told investigators. Nor do they know if Flynn's son was interviewed by those investigators. Consider the amount of time the son spent on the campaign trail in 2016, hanging out with Ivanka, Jared, and Don Jr. These are the questions that will occupy Trump's mind, as he considers if he needs to attack Flynn on twitter.

What we can be certain of is that factors including Trump's need for stimulation, pathological lying, impulsiveness, and poor behavioral controls will result in attempts to manipulate events. This will likely go beyond the lies and tweets that we have seen daily. He may ignore his legal team's advice, as he did when hinting that Roger Stone will be rewarded if he refuses to tell the truth about the collusion.

While Trump has been told that granting any pardons before the 2020 election would greatly reduce the possibility of his being re-elected, he may conclude that not granting them could also decrease the chances of his being a candidate. In his mind, he is convinced that he is the smartest person in the “room,” and can manipulate any crisis he creates. And that is actually a good thing.

The more Trump acts out, the deeper a hole he digs for himself. Both investigators and prosecutors always prepare for this type of thing. In fact, they often count on it. More, with the Democrats in charge of the House of Representatives, and a growing number of Senate republicans expressing off-the-record dismay with Trump's instability, 2019 will bring an abrupt end to Trump's presidency.

Peace,
H2O Man

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Arrow 15 replies Author Time Post
Reply When the Music's Over (Original post)
H2O Man Dec 5 OP
Me. Dec 5 #1
H2O Man Thursday #8
Me. Thursday #10
Mopar151 Thursday #12
Me. Thursday #14
coeur_de_lion Dec 5 #2
H2O Man Thursday #9
coeur_de_lion Thursday #13
coeur_de_lion Thursday #15
Lucky Luciano Dec 5 #3
H2O Man Thursday #11
suffragette Dec 5 #4
djacq Dec 5 #5
Hekate Dec 5 #6
Hermit-The-Prog Thursday #7

Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 05:43 PM

1. Can Whitaker Legally Tell Individual 1 & His Team

what info the redacted lines contain?

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Response to Me. (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:09 AM

8. Good question.

In theory, that's a possibility. In practice, it would be difficult, though not impossible. But it would be high-risk for Whitaker, who is being watched very closely.

When his appointment was made, the initial response was the concern he would actively try to stop the investigation and prosecutions. That was a reasonable concern, and certainly what Trump had in mind. As opposition to his appointment grew, the primary concern became that he would report to Trump's legal team. Thus, the calls for him to recuse himself from the case, based upon his previous comments in the media. It is unclear at this point if he has been advised that by DOJ ethical guidelines, he should. However, as either he or Mr. Rosenstein could request that ruling, I think it has been done, but not made public. I could, of course, be wrong.

If it hasn't, the DOJ structure comes into play in another way. Whitaker could ask Mr. Rosenstein to be briefed on the case. This could be the case, considering he was informed about last week's Cohen filing the evening before. And he could insist on actually viewing some of the documents. If he did, it would get a lot of negative attention within the DOJ/FBI, including from Mr. Mueller's team.

I think Whitaker's appointment was an example of Trump's recklessness. Surely his real legal team (not Rudy) would have recognized the inherent risks, considering the Democratic House come January, and discouraged this. But Trump is as impulsive as he is repulsive.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 11:01 AM

10. Thanks

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Response to Me. (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 01:11 PM

12. Legallly, or Illegally?

He'd have to do some serious digging to get at those docs.

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Response to Mopar151 (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 01:59 PM

14. Either

do he have access

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 07:51 PM

2. He's so crazy

He can't even see that he digs himself a deeper hole every time he tweets or gives an interview.

Absolutely not an ounce of self control. It must be exhausting to be in his personal space for more than a minute. His poor family. Shit poor us. It's exhausting just reading about him and I can't stand to listen to him for even one second.

I'm curious about the different diagnoses you mention above. Can one be a psychopath, and ASPD at the same time?

And what about everything I've read about him having narcisisstic personality disorder? Does that fall under ASPD or is it something separate? Hell for all I know NPD is a made up disorder and not even a diagnosable mental illness.

It must be hell to be him. Anyone else who had been given all that he has would be happy. Individual 1 has never had a happy day in his life. He's relentlessly negative and miserable. His only happiness is when he manages briefly to make someone else miserable.

I trust Bob Mueller. I can see that he is very carefully and painstakingly building a solid case. It needs to be solid. So we need to suffer through Indiv. 1 blustering and bullshitting until the trap snaps shut. There will be celebrations that day the likes of which have never been seen in the history of politics. I'm buying some Dom Perignon.

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Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 10:18 AM

9. Good questions.

Perhaps the biggest distinction between ASPD and psychopathy is that anti-socials generally have a criminal code of conduct -- think of the pre-1962 mobsters going to prison without ratting out others -- whereas psychopaths do not. They will knife their closest associates in the back without giving it a second thought, if they believe it benefits them.

Narcissism is a personality trait of psychopaths. In other words, all psychopaths are narcissists, but not all narcissists are psychopaths. Keep in mind that, before Hare, Erich Fromm diagnosed psychopaths as "malignant narcissists." (Like Dr. Hare, it is certain that Fromm would not misidentify psychopathy for ASPD for insurance purposes.)

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 01:55 PM

13. I get it now!

My Dad was a psychiatric social worker so he knew a lot but things have changed and there are all kinds of new mental illnesses and sub categories. I don’t understand anything about psychiatry anymore.

Safe to say Individual 1 is a psychopath.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 05:19 PM

15. Does a psychopath like Individual 1

Have a missing logic chip in their brain?

Because it's completely illogical for anyone to expect to commit the crimes he has, in a very obvious and in-your-face fashion, and not expect to be prosecuted for them.

It's also completely illogical to lie as much as he does, very publicly, and not realize that he's leaving an electronic record that will incriminate him.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 07:55 PM

3. Turn out the lights! I love your Doors references!

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Response to Lucky Luciano (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 12:52 PM

11. For the music is

your special friend
dance on fire as it intends.



(I am also listening to "The End" and thinking of current events!)

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 07:58 PM

4. ... turn out the lights, turn out the lights, turn out the lights.

Sorry, couldn’t resist.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 08:00 PM

5. Malignant Narcissist

The best diagnosed of Trump ever from Dr. Bandy Lee's “The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump.”

Highly recommend reading.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 08:00 PM

6. I just profoundly hope the Mad King doesn't start a war in the near future. nt

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Response to Hekate (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 6, 2018, 12:08 AM

7. that is my biggest fear

Donald wants big distractions for threats or insults that he perceives are big.

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