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Thu Aug 16, 2012, 05:47 PM

The Family Research Council shooter had 15 Chick-Fil-A Sandwiches

Last edited Thu Aug 16, 2012, 07:11 PM - Edit history (2)

I hope this will be serve as a reminder that the "stochastic terrorism" theme has its limits. If this man had killed 10+ people at the FRC (which he seems to have been armed to do) and thrown cold Chik-Fil-A sandwiches on the bodies we would have never heard the end of which Kos Diarists and MSNBC commentators and Democratic mayors had blood on their hands. (The FRC has already said that the Southern Poverty Law Center gave this guy "license" to target them by calling them a hate group.)

Some men go crazy and want to shoot people. They typically have strong feelings when they do so. Usually they are upset with their employer or their ex-wife. Sometimes they are upset about Obama. And sometimes they are upset about anti-gay policies and rhetoric. It is uncommon, but inevitable.

The American RW is more bloody-minded than the left, and vastly better armed. But crazy people do often have all sorts of strong political feelings and it is to be expected that some violence by nuts can follow on the heels of outrage. Any outrage. And no party or group has a monopoly on crazy. (Despite RW efforts to corner the market.)

Ultimate irony: This man will probably be charged under hate crime laws. And he should... we cannot have it both ways. (DC's hate crimes law includes political affiliation.)



FBI: Family Research Council Suspect Said, ‘I Don’t Like Your Politics’ Before Shooting

The parents of the man who allegedly shot a security guard at the Family Research Council headquarters told the FBI that their son “has strong opinions with respect to those he believes do not treat homosexuals in a fair manner.”

Floyd Lee Corkins II, 28, allegedly said something to the effect of “I don’t like your politics” when confronted by an FRC security guard Thursday morning, according to an affidavit filed by FBI Special Agent Garrett Nabors.

Corkins allegedly took a firearm out of his backpack and shot at security guard Leo Johnson, striking him in the arm. Even after being shot, Johnson managed to wrestle the gun away from Corkins and subdue him.

Authorities searched Corkins’s backpack and found 15 sandwiches from Chick-Fil-A, a box of 50 rounds of ammunition and two additional magazines.
...

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/fbi_family_research_council_suspect_said_i_dont_li.php?

33 replies, 5457 views

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Reply The Family Research Council shooter had 15 Chick-Fil-A Sandwiches (Original post)
cthulu2016 Aug 2012 OP
HubertHeaver Aug 2012 #1
Butterbean Aug 2012 #3
cthulu2016 Aug 2012 #4
ProudToBeBlueInRhody Aug 2012 #12
cthulu2016 Aug 2012 #14
HiPointDem Aug 2012 #16
cthulu2016 Aug 2012 #18
HiPointDem Aug 2012 #25
HiPointDem Aug 2012 #26
Ken Burch Aug 2012 #28
HiPointDem Aug 2012 #30
cali Aug 2012 #29
HubertHeaver Aug 2012 #31
cali Aug 2012 #32
HubertHeaver Aug 2012 #33
HopeHoops Aug 2012 #2
AverageJoe90 Aug 2012 #23
virginia mountainman Aug 2012 #5
cthulu2016 Aug 2012 #7
virginia mountainman Aug 2012 #11
Zorra Aug 2012 #6
cthulu2016 Aug 2012 #8
Zorra Aug 2012 #19
cthulu2016 Aug 2012 #21
Not Me Aug 2012 #9
obamanut2012 Aug 2012 #13
cbayer Aug 2012 #24
Quantess Aug 2012 #10
Jennicut Aug 2012 #15
Major Nikon Aug 2012 #17
cthulu2016 Aug 2012 #20
Major Nikon Aug 2012 #22
davidpdx Aug 2012 #27

Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 06:00 PM

1. This really smells of a set-up.

The guard just works there and not necessarily for the Family Research Council. Why go after him?

Why the sandwiches in the backpack? Fifteen sandwiches, no less. The whole thing does not make sense.



Both sides go crazy and shoot people?

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Response to HubertHeaver (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 06:03 PM

3. The whole thing is just weird. I'm just glad no one died.

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Response to HubertHeaver (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 06:06 PM

4. It makes perfect sense.

Some men go crazy and want to shoot people. They typically have strong feelings when they do so.

Usually they are upset with their employer or their ex-wife. Sometimes they are upset about Obama. And sometimes they are upset about anti-gay policies and rhetoric. It is uncommon, but inevitable.

The American RW is more bloody-minded than the left, and vastly better armed. But crazy people do often have all sorts of strong political feelings and it is to be expected that some violence by nuts will follow on the heels of outrage. Any outrage.

No party or group has a monopoly on crazy. (Though the RW does seem to hoard it.)

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Response to HubertHeaver (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 06:50 PM

12. If your plan is to terrorize or kill people....you take out security first.

Seems pretty obvious.

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Response to ProudToBeBlueInRhody (Reply #12)

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 06:55 PM

14. Same thing as the Holocaust Museum shooter

He shot a security guard on the way in and was stopped before shooting anyone else.

The guy who busted into the Capitol did the same thing... shot security people around the metal detector and elsewhere but didn't manage to shoot any of his real targets. (IIRC... that was a while ago)

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Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #14)

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 07:00 PM

16. 'left-wing' shootings so often target the 'little people'. it's very strange. it reminds me of the

 

Last edited Fri Aug 17, 2012, 05:12 PM - Edit history (1)

shooting of the black school superintendent marcus foster by the symbionese liberation army. supposedly in the name of black liberation.

it didn't make sense.

unless you figure the sla was not what it seemed.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #16)

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 07:08 PM

18. People often shoot whoever is handy

Bremmer stalked Nixon but shot Wallace just because he saw that Wallace was appearing at a nearby shopping center.

An sometimes they are lousy shots—the guy who tried to assassinate FDR killed Chicago Mayor Anton Cermak instead.

Aside from a couple of fringe eco-groups there hasn't been much nut-left violence since about 1980, but back in the day, (1850-1920) left-wing violence was very much aimed at the top of the pyramid. Presidents, kings, dukes, prime-ministers.

But even then, when explosives were used most of the victims were night-watchmen and secretaries.

There are simply a lot more little people.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #18)

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 08:07 PM

25. and sometimes left-wing violence is really right-wing or state-sponsored.

 

Operation Gladio (Italian: Operazione Gladio) is the codename for a clandestine NATO "stay-behind" operation in Italy after World War II. Its purpose was to continue anti-communist actions in the event of a Soviet invasion and conquest...

The role of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) in sponsoring Gladio and the extent of its activities during the Cold War era, and its relationship to right-wing terrorist attacks perpetrated in Italy during the "Years of Lead" (late 1960s to early 1980s) and other similar clandestine operations is the subject of ongoing debate and investigation....

However, Italian Gladio was more far reaching. "A briefing minute of June 1, 1959, reveals Gladio was built around 'internal subversion'. It was to play 'a determining role... not only on the general policy level of warfare, but also in the politics of emergency'. In the 1970s, with communist electoral support growing and other leftists looking menacing, the establishment turned to the 'Strategy of Tension' ... with Gladio eager to be involved."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio

The strategy of tension (Italian: strategia della tensione) is a theory that describes how to divide, manipulate, and control public opinion using fear, propaganda, disinformation, psychological warfare, agents provocateurs, and false flag terrorist actions.[1]

The theory began with allegations that the United States government and the Greek military junta of 1967–1974 supported far-right terrorist groups in Italy and Turkey, where communism was growing in popularity, to spread panic among the population who would in turn demand stronger and more dictatorial governments...

Much attention has been on Operation Gladio, Italy's branch of the secret pre-positioned NATO "stay-behind" armies of Western Europe. These armies were set up to perform resistance, partisan, and guerrilla activities in the event of Soviet invasion; equivalent units were set up by other NATO members in their states.

It is claimed that Gladio units were engaged in destabilization (admitted by the italians & others) at the behest of the United States and other Western governments, intelligence agencies (e.g., the CIA), the P2 masonic lodge...

The claims are backed by judicial proof which establish that European fascist dictatorships of the time (the Greek junta and the secret services of Francisco Franco) were heavily involved in supporting and arming Italian neo-fascist and neo-nazi groups such as Ordine Nuovo and Avanguardia Nazionale.[citation needed] For instance, Avanguardia Nazionale hitman Pierluigi Concutelli used an Ingram MAC-10 SMG to assassinate magistrate Vittorio Occorsio in the 1970s. It has been proven that Avanguardia Nazionale secured the weapon from the CIA via Franchist Spain....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy_of_tension

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #25)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 01:47 AM

26. the shooter lives with parents in herndon virginia, on the "CIA Corridor". No job, volunteers

 

for some LGBT org, no internet presence, no arrest history. 28 years old.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #16)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 04:39 PM

28. Would you at least consider putting the words "left-wing" in quotes there?

 

It becomes clear at the end that you're not actually saying that this was a left action, but there's some confusion at the stop.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #28)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 05:11 PM

30. sure.

 

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Response to HubertHeaver (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 04:41 PM

29. What nonsense.

 

yes, people of varying political persuasions and none at all can be deranged shooters.

The set-up bullshit is what I expect from freepers and wingers. I hate seeing it here.

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Response to cali (Reply #29)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 06:09 AM

31. Are you calling me a Freeper?

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Response to HubertHeaver (Reply #31)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 06:51 AM

32. no.

 

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Response to cali (Reply #32)

Sat Aug 18, 2012, 02:56 PM

33. Thank you.

Just wanted to clarify.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 06:02 PM

2. Damn. I hate when there are rounds of ammunition in my chicken sandwiches.

 

He's as bad as the wingnuts who do the same thing. This time he's on "our side", so to speak, but not doing us any favor anymore than the wingnut terrorists help out the right wing. Yeah, we've got ours too, just not nearly as many.

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Response to HopeHoops (Reply #2)

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 08:00 PM

23. Exactly.

 

I feel that we have a similar problem when it comes to other topics....like climate change, for example: The hand-wringing nutters who claim that humanity will, and should, go extinct, may have their followers, but they aren't being helpful, any more than the denialists are.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 06:14 PM

5. I wonder if some will try to ban chicken sandwiches??? nt

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Response to virginia mountainman (Reply #5)

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 06:17 PM

7. I am not what one would call "pro-gun," but

I did have a laugh when I saw the article, thinking to myself "We need some sort of controls. How many chicken sandwiches does one person need?"

And, of course, "Chik-Fil-A sandwiches don't kill people... well, okay, they do. But quite slowly."

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Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #7)

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 06:49 PM

11. LOL...

I understand the grilled ones are not as dangerous as the deep fried ones...

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 06:15 PM

6. SPLC has printed some nasty, ugly truths about FRC and FRC Head, Tony Perkins.

It's not wrong to call a hate group a hate group if it is true that they are a hate group.

When hate groups stop telling lies about the LGBT community, we'll stop telling the truth about hate groups.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/winter/the-hard-liners

Headed since 2003 by former Louisiana State Rep. Tony Perkins, the FRC has been a font of anti-gay propaganda throughout its history. It relies on the work of Robert Knight, who also worked at Concerned Women for America but now is at Coral Ridge Ministries (see above for both), along with that of FRC senior research fellows Tim Dailey (hired in 1999) and Peter Sprigg (2001). Both Dailey and Sprigg have pushed false accusations linking gay men to pedophilia: Sprigg has written that most men who engage in same-sex child molestation “identify themselves as homosexual or bisexual,” and Dailey and Sprigg devoted an entire chapter of their 2004 book Getting It Straight to similar material. The men claimed that “homosexuals are overrepresented in child sex offenses” and similarly asserted that “homosexuals are attracted in inordinate numbers to boys.”
snip---
Perkins has his own unusual history. In 1996, while managing the U.S. Senate campaign of Republican State Rep. Louis “Woody” Jenkins of Louisiana, Perkins paid $82,500 to use the mailing list of former Klan chieftain David Duke. The campaign was fined $3,000 (reduced from $82,500) after Perkins and Jenkins filed false disclosure forms in a bid to hide the link to Duke. Five years later, on May 17, 2001, Perkins gave a speech to the Louisiana chapter of the Council of Conservative Citizens (CCC), a white supremacist group that has described black people as a “retrograde species of humanity.” Perkins claimed not to know the group’s ideology at the time, but it had been widely publicized in Louisiana and the nation. In 1999, after Republican Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott was embroiled in a national scandal over his ties to the group, GOP chairman Jim Nicholson urged Republicans to quit the CCC because of its “racist views.” That statement and the nationally publicized Lott controversy came two years before Perkins’ 2001 speech.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #6)

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 06:19 PM

8. Nobody here is objecting to the Label

The FRC is my very least favorite organization in the USA.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #8)

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 07:15 PM

19. Sorry. Should have been clearer

by posting that SPLC had good reason to call them a hate group, and that people should never be dissuaded from speaking the truth because RW media will use it against us somehow. They lie about everything all the time anyway.

"If this man had killed 10+ people at the FRC (which he seems to have been armed to do) and thrown cold Chik-Fil-A sandwiches on the bodies we would have never heard the end of which Kos Diarists and MSNBC commentators had blood on their hands. (The FRC has already said that the Southern Poverty Law Center gave this guy license to target the by calling them a hate group.)"


If some RW who was part of a RW extremist group shoots a bunch of people, we have good reason to believe the hate group may have had some part in the crime, directly or indirectly. After all, they do preach hatred for others.

Right-wing extremist terrorism as deadly a threat as al Qaeda?

By contrast, right-wing extremists have committed at least eight lethal terrorist attacks in the United States that have resulted in the deaths of nine people since 9/11, according to data compiled by the New America Foundation.

And if, after investigation, Sunday's attack on the Sikh temple in Wisconsin is included in this count, the death toll from right-wing terrorism in the U.S. over the past decade rises to 15.

The shooting suspect, Wade Michael Page, posed with a Nazi flag on his Facebook page and has played a prominent role in "white power" music groups. The FBI is investigating the case as a "domestic terrorist-type incident."
snip--
The numbers in the New America Foundation database may well understate the toll of violence from right-wing extremists. Another FBI study reported that between January 1, 2007, and October 31, 2009, white supremacists were involved in 53 acts of violence, 40 of which were assaults directed primarily at African-Americans, seven of which were murders and the rest of which were threats, arson and intimidation. Most of these were treated as racially motivated crimes rather than political acts of violence, i.e. terrorism.


In contrast, religious hate groups and the RW media could yell about the SPLC, Kos, and MSNBC having blood on their hands, but it would not be true because they are not advocating hating others or actively working to deprive others of their rights.

The difference is fact and truth. We shouldn't stop telling the truth simply because RWers will lie about us if we do. They're gonna lie about us no matter what.

And like you said, disturbed, unstable people are out there, and they sometimes go off, and there is no monopoly on disturbed, unstable people by one group.

But the RW has pretty well cornered the market on violent extremist hate groups and religious hate groups determined to deprive others of their rights.

Non-violent rights advocates like the LGBT community do not preach violence, hate, or attempt to limit the rights of others. If some disturbed, unstable person associates with an LGBT group and later commits an act of violence, and RW hate groups and RW media try to place the blame for the violence on LGBT or Human Rights Groups, well, that's because they lie. It's what they do.

But we can't let that stop any of us us from speaking truth based in documented fact.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #19)

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 07:20 PM

21. You're good. I just wanted to be clear that

my quoting the FRC position was not an endorsement of it, or in any way a criticism of the SPLC.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 06:41 PM

9. The talking point ought to be

"Chick Fil A customer shoots FRC Security Guard."

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Response to Not Me (Reply #9)

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 06:51 PM

13. this

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Response to Not Me (Reply #9)

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 08:05 PM

24. Except that this guy apparently worked for GLBT rights groups.

I think the sandwiches were intended to be something symbolic.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 06:42 PM

10. Weird!

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 06:58 PM

15. I just wonder what happened to simply protesting against organizations

and people you don't like. When did these nutballs that go around shooting people think that violence is the answer? You can't change someone else's views by shooting them. Thankfully, there are very few people that go off like this. I hate the FRC with a passion but violence should never be the answer. But I do find it ironic that Tony Perkins is so outraged at the SPLC when Repubs have spewed all kinds of stuff and then nutballs go out and kill abortion doctors. I doubt he gets the irony at all.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 07:04 PM

17. I'm not sure this person could be convicted on hate crime laws

FRC is an advocacy and lobbying group and not so much a religious group. Furthermore the attacker was not attacking them for their religious beliefs, but rather for their political beliefs. If this person is charged under hate crime laws I think it would be a miscarriage of the law to use it for the protection of a hate group. It would be like charging someone with a hate crime law who shot up a KKK meeting around a burning cross.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #17)

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 07:17 PM

20. re" Federal, you are probably right. But DC includes political affiliation

I edited the OP in light of your observation.

As TPM says, "federal prosecutors could have trouble proving that Corkins was specifically motivated by the FRC’s Christianity rather than their political activity. In a more likely scenario, Corkins could be prosecuted under D.C.’s more expansive hate crimes law, which targets violent crimes motivated by political affiliation."

I do not agree with you about shooting up a Klan meeting. If we have hate crime laws then I would have no problem with that being prosecuted as a hate crime if the people were targeted for being in the Klan.

The justification for hate crimes laws is to reduce what is really small-scale domestic terrorism, and shooting up a KKK meeting does intimidate people from joining the Klan or make Klansmen live in fear.

To me, any such terrorism must be terrorism in the eyes of the law. That doesn't mean we have to weight all victims the same, but the law should.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #20)

Thu Aug 16, 2012, 07:29 PM

22. As far as I'm concerned, hate crimes should be for protected classes

Political affiliation is not a protected class, nor should it be. Terrorism laws would be a separate matter, and although they are important and serve their purpose as well, I just don't think they should be conflated with hate crime laws. Otherwise you get into situations like this where haters are being protected by laws designed to protect people from haters.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #22)

Fri Aug 17, 2012, 03:19 AM

27. Well put that makes sense

The guy should obviously be charged with a crime, but it shouldn't be a hate crime.

What he should have done is took a **** in the sandwich and made them eat it. What would a little extra sauce hurt them?

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