Ryan's "inadvertent omission" of 7-figure trust from House financial disclosure forms for 2 years

[highplainsdem]

Being vetted for VP apparently jogged his memory in June...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/story/2012-08-15/paul-ryan-finances-reports/57078160/1?csp=Dailybriefing

While being vetted by Mitt Romney's campaign, GOP vice presidential hopeful Rep. Paul Ryan amended two years of his financial disclosure statements to add an income-producing trust worth between $1 million and $5 million that he had previously neglected to report.

-snip-

The trust was created in 2010 following the death of Janna Ryan's mother, Prudence Little, a prominent Oklahoma attorney. Janna Ryan's remaining interest in the trust is estimated between $1,000,001 and $5 million, according to the amended filings.

Ryan's amended reports were hand delivered to the House Clerk with letters characterizing the belated disclosures as an "inadvertent omission."

-snip-

Craig Holman, a government affairs lobbyist for Public Citizen, a consumer advocacy group, said "the amount and timing of this new disclosure suggests that Ryan had not sought to be fully transparent about his income and investments until he felt compelled to do so."

-snip-

[annabanana]

1. "It was just an oversight, I swear . . I mean 1 - 5 million?

I just forgot to poke around under the sofa cushions, you know?"

[Arkansas Granny]

32. Of course. It could have happened to anybody, right?

I forget things like that all the time.

[Roy Rolling]

39. Wow, that reminds me

I forgot I had a $5 million account at the bank, too. It can happen to anyone. Thanks Paul!

[MattSh]

70. Hey, I've overlooked my 7 figure trust many times. Don't we all?

Wait. What's that? I don't have a 7 figure trust?

How can that be? I'm an American, damn it. Weren't we all supposed to be granted a 7 figure trust? Where's my damn 7 figure trust? I want it now!

[jsr]

2. Eh, de minimis

Minor detail. Clerical error. Innocent mistake. Perfectly harmless. Everybody does it all the time.

[Coyotl]

23. Yeah, take for example Sen. Ted "ethics, what is ethics" Stevens

Who needs to report stuff if you are all-powerful

[2pooped2pop]

3. I guess it takes a tax cheat to know a tax cheat

Or maybe all republicans are tax cheats. Certainly wouldn't doubt it. We are the only ones playing by the rules. The rich make the rules.

[aquart]

4. Oops.

[trotsky]

5. So hopelessly out of touch with regular Americans.

I guess the poor should just make better use of their trust funds, huh?

[nc4bo]

6. Wait, wasn't his wife a tax attorney? nt

[Downwinder]

7. You tend to forget about pocket change.

[magical thyme]

14. meh. happens all the time. poor guy probably left it in the other pants.

man, I do that all the time. When I think I'm broke, I just go rummaging through the closet and "Hey! There's a couple bucks I forgot about!"

[Overseas]

8. K&R.

[Berlum]

9. Republican occultism

as usual.

The 1% like Ryan and Romney think they have a special right to be Tax Dodgers and Draft Dodgers.

They FAIL in their basic responsibility as US Citizens.

[bigbrother05]

20. They think it's their "responsibility" to pay no more than legally required

In Romney's own words, they wouldn't be qualified for high office if they left one penny on the table

[Berlum]

21. But by hiding their wealth, Republicans are cheating

One thing to pay what's legally required and whine about it, another to hide you wealth and cheat the citizens of the USA and dodge your duty -- just as Romeny and Ryan dodged military service, now they dodge their basic responsibilities to pay for the governmental services they enjoy.

[Wednesdays]

74. Good grief, your average Money Magazine article shows you how to do just that: hide assets

It's as 'Murikan as mom and apple pie.

[Berlum]

78. Not 'Murkian -- Republican

Honest people do not cheat.

[Enrique]

10. anyone who has a problem with this is just jealous

[RC]

11. between $1,000,001 and $5 million?

They can't get any closer than that? For a trust fund? My dealings with money that might be of interest to others had to be down to the penny, or at least a few cents.

[hfojvt]

15. Ryan probably can

but the disclosure form only requires you to give a range, not an exact figure, which would probably change monthly anyway.

[BumRushDaShow]

12. What other (including off shored) investments might he have

that he forgot that he should have reported?

We know one of their fave SC justices "forgot" to report all sorts of things associated with "the wife" for 20 years.

[hfojvt]

13. I atually can understand mistakes of this type

But I seem to remember that Daschle was not granted much consideration for his "inadvertent ommission".

[magical thyme]

16. Really? Forgetting a few million that you *just* inherited?

They came into the trust in 2010. It's now 2012.

[hfojvt]

29. What is his MOTIVE for leaving it off?

If you think he did it on purpose, then WHY did he do it?

I don't see any possible motive, so I find it hard to believe he did it on purpose.

And yes, when one is filling out multiple pages of forms, sometimes mistakes are made, things are forgotten.

[magical thyme]

47. I don't know. Where else did he "forget" to include it?

Taxes? We know they don't believe in paying them. Maybe they're paranoid about potential checking across systems. Maybe they left it off their tax forms too. Which 2 years of taxes has he agreed to release eventually, some day, maybe after the election?

Where there's smoke there's fire. And I smell some smoke.

[hfojvt]

50. So you have nothing.

That's called an unfounded allegation.

Sometimes where there is smoke, it is just some slightly singed toast and not Chicago being burned down. I don't know why we feel like we have to chase down every silly little thing instead of talking about issues.

Can we not win a debate talking about how evil his budget plan is?

Silly stories like this are the "character" issues that Republicans like to chase after so they can avoid talking about how their policies only benefit the rich.

So why do we want to do it?

[magical thyme]

80. I've got speculation. And until he releases his tax returns

that's all I'll have.

Of course, he can end the speculation any time. He can release his tax returns now. And suggest that his senior partner do the same.

This is war. You can feel free to take the "high road" and leave the GOP to beat you to a pulp.

I'm perfectly happy to wage an all out, no holds barred fight. Including the kitchen sink. The W years and early O years took me for 3/4s or so of my life savings. I'm hanging by a thread now, thanks only to Obama's income based student loan repayments. Otherwise I'd lose my last little chunk and be living in my car, along with my fur and feather babies.

Maybe you can afford to lose; I can't.

[xtraxritical]

85. Off topic reply...

My wife has 4 Pomeranians, a large St. Bernard looking dog and an African Grey parrot. There's hair, feathers, and disagreeable stuff everywhere but they've got us well trained.

[magical thyme]

89. so you can imagine life with your "family" in a small car

try jamming a lab-x, rhodie-x, cockatoo, senegal parrot, african weaver finch, sun conure, lovebird, elderly cat, and arabian (all rescues) into a 16 year old honda civic. That would be my life if I lost our home.

[jmowreader]

86. We should do it because it needs to be done

Republicans say we should vote for them because you can "trust" a Republican--can you really trust someone who'd just forget about a few million dollars?

It's also better to go in and talk about the fact that not only is his budget plan evil, it would be a little LESS evil if people like Paul Ryan weren't evading taxes. (If he forgot to list the fund on his House disclosure forms, he forgot to list it on his 1040 as well.)

[hfojvt]

88. I doubt if it does any good, and it may even do some harm

if people cannot give a reason, a motive that I have asked for, and not been given.

He did it on purpose? Why?

And to me the big problem is not how the rich evade the taxes they are supposed to pay, It is how they change the laws so that they can LEGALLY pay much less in taxes. From 1986 to 2006, the top 1% were given $2 trillion dollars in LEGAL tax cuts, much of that coming from the last 4 years from the Bush tax cuts. Tax cuts that Ryan's plan would legally extend forever, and add even more. That is the real evil of his plan. He claims to want to balance the budget, and yet Ryan starts with a whole bunch of tax breaks for the rich.

[magical thyme]

90. they want to control the taxes we pay, but still hide the taxes they paid

That one statement says it all to me.

"the big problem is not how the rich evade the taxes they are supposed to pay,"

And you don't see the connection between deliberately evading taxes while wanting the power to decide how much taxes they will legally pay?

You see, to me the fact that they evade taxes -- legally or illegally -- tells me that given the opportunity, they will change the laws to make it easier for them to evade even more taxes.

There is your motive.

And revealing the truth never hurts. If speculation will pressure them to reveal the truth of their taxes, it will help.

If speculation pressures them to dig their heels in deeper and refuse, then they are left with big, unanswered questions that will leave people filling in the blanks for them. That, too, will help.

You are welcome to believe it doesn't help. I do believe it helps. I will spread discomfort with their hiding their taxes -- leaving wide open the door to blatant cheating and in the case of Romney possible felony -- every place I can.

Do you really want a felon sitting in the oval office? How do we know Romney isn't a felon? We know he had a UBS account, but he doesn't list is as a US-based account. Was it a legal account or an illegal account? Did he take amnesty in 2009? Until we see his 2009, we don't know for sure.

How do we know Ryan isn't a felon? He inherited a $1-5M trust in 2010 and "forgot" to acknowledge it on federal forms for 2 years between 2010 and 2012. Did he also "forget" it existed when he did his taxes? We don't know until we see his taxes for those years.

[Warren Stupidity]

91. Wait. What? The dude "forgot" a multi - million dollar fund.

But it is inappropriate to ask what else he has "forgotten" to disclose? Seriously?

Your concern that we keep to the issues is duly noted.

[Ikonoklast]

59. Ryan has always portrayed himself as a "Working Class Guy", just like most of his district.

It's been his con all along, he is the scion of one of the largest building contractors in Wisconsin, and at age 27 inherited a $500,000.00 trust fund from his grandfather.

Ryan and his family was never in need or want for anything at any point in his life, even after the early death of his father.

He wants people to think he's just a working stiff, when in all reality, he's never had to work a day in his entire life if he didn't want to.

That's his motive, he's been lying to his constituency his entire political life, and he wants to continue in that vein as it has worked to his benefit all along. Having a few million here and there that you inherited kinda ruins that narrative.

People in his district are finally waking up to the fact that he's just another entitled rich who has nothing in common with them.

[hfojvt]

66. and the extra million would make a difference?

Again, he won in 2008 by 231,009 to 125,268.

I donated to Zerban (for a chance to win a guitar signed by Joan Jett), but I am not sure Ryan is in any danger this year either.

[nc4bo]

19. His wife made her living as a tax attorney for 2 big corporations.

As a tax attorney, she'd fit the profile of anal retentive about details.

If anyone should be on the ball, it'd be Miss Janna.

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/08/14/janna-ryan-get-to-know-paul-ryan-wife/

She earned her law degree from George Washington University and after graduation worked as a tax attorney and lobbyist for PricewaterhouseCoopers and then for Williams & Jensen.

[hfojvt]

36. and professionals make mistakes all the time

nobody is perfect. Not even Yale graduates. Not even lawyers (although one may be hard pressed to find a lawyer who will admit that, except under oath.)

Again, what is the motive?

[nc4bo]

38. To accidently avoid paying anything. 1st year perhaps an error. 2 years? No pass.

Some whoops.

[hfojvt]

42. whether he reports it on his House disclosure forms

does not affect what he pays or does not pay. It is only a disclosure form - not a tax filing like Daschle's was. Daschle had a motive - to avoid paying some small amount in taxes, and even there I could see it as inadvertent.

Ryan's a piece of crap, but this incident does not prove anything.

I think we should still be talking about the lack of disclosure in his tax and budget plan.

[George II]

45. Motive?

He probably figured he could get away with it as a "mere" congressman.

Remember, this wasn't uncovered UNTIL they started looking into his background for Vice President.

[hfojvt]

53. get away with WHAT, exactly?

If he had put it on his disclosure form in 2010 what would have happened? What bad thing that he was trying to avoid by leaving it off?

Nothing that I can see. It's just another line on the disclosure form. There is simply no logical reason that I can see for him to want to purposefully leave it off.

It's like accussing a sinlge person of deliberately "forgetting" to take out the trash. If I had a spouse, I might pretend to forget. Just because I don't wanna do it, and if I pretend to forget, then my spouse will do it. See, there is a motive - to avoid work. For a single person, there is no motive.

Sometimes a mistake is just a mistake.

[Paladin]

67. Bending Over Backwards For Him , Aren't You? (nt)

[hfojvt]

69. I think it is a fairly straightforward question.

If he did this on purpose - WHY?

I know I am supposed to be part of a lynch mob willing to string him up for any imagined slight, but I am simply not seeing a legitimate complaint here.

[George II]

93. Get away with NOT complying with the law or full disclosure.

[LanternWaste]

55. Public perception is one guess...

"Again, what is the motive?"

Public perception is one guess... the same guess I have as to why Romney won't release his taxes. That amount of wealth can and will compel many people to re-evaluate their votes...

Sometimes professionals, as you say, make mistakes. Sometimes however, professionals know what they are doing.

[hfojvt]

63. In 2010, he beat Heckenlively by 100,000 votes

total was 179,819 to 79,363.

I find it very hard to believe he would worry about public perception from a disclosure form that very few voters are likely to see or hear about. I suppose the CREEPs in 1972 did all kinds of illegal things to win an election that they were likely to win big anyway, so it could be the case, but then why not disclose in 2011?

I think we need a clear and obvious motive before we can get the public to care. Otherwise, we will just create sympathy in all the voters who have also messed up some government form.

[LanternWaste]

65. I imagine the target demographics are rather different between a local and national race.

"from a disclosure form that very few voters are likely to see or hear about..."
I imagine the target demographics are rather different between a local/state race and Presidential race. I also imagine that after entering a presidential race, public perception on disclosure runs to a higher standard.

"I think we need a clear and obvious motive before we can get the public to care..."
There is no clear and obvious motive for Romney to keep his tax statements hidden from public, yet they are in the news cycles and in the public discourse quite a bit-- and very few seem sympathetic to him on that topic.

[Ikonoklast]

56. You try that excuse with the IRS two years running, see where that gets you.

It still remains your responsibility to see that the forms are filled out correctly, after all, you did sign them.

Nice to see you apologizing for your pals, though.

Some things never change, you are true to your convictions.

[hfojvt]

61. spoken like a Vogon

and a tribalist.

See, with the IRS, there would be a motive. Saving some money.

And they have corrected my mistakes a number of times without penalty.

With the disclosure form there is no motive. Unless you know of one.

You have not told me what you think the motive is, just made an attack on me, because a guy like me, who happens to be running for office as a Democrat, must really be a Republican troll.

As for my convictions, I spent about $4,000 of my own money trying to fight policies that Ryan proposes.

So, motive?

[Ikonoklast]

64. He was hiding his true net worth from his constituency.

And you really don't need to inform me of your bona fides, as your positions are quite well known here.

Good luck getting yourself elected.

I know lots of local officials just like you, they call themselves Democrats, too.

[hfojvt]

68. actually I ran for Congress

So far I have only spent $500 running for Treasurer, and that's a partisan election, but not really a partisan office.

I guess it must be well known then, that I favor progressive taxes.

I sorta doubt that there are many elected officials "just like" me - who have spent their adult working lives in the bottom quintile doing janitorial work and working as a factory temp. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002625762

But I have no doubt there are many Democrats who are disgustingly conservative. Point is, I spent my own money out of my not-vast fortune (in spite of my name) to oppose people like Ryan (if not also Ryun), and am actually still spending about $10 a month, for whatever good it does, trying to spread the word. http://www.koch2congress.com/5.html

[riderinthestorm]

84. Because his schtick to his constituents is that he's a regular guy

not a rich, spoiled, entitled political insider.

He didn't want to fuck up his public persona that he's lied about for so many years...

[FatIrishBastard]

60. I forgot=a mistake?

All due respect, hfojvt, that gambit never worked in 3rd grade, Sister Marie whipped ass over THAT dodge! BTW...where is Mr. Daschle now?

[hfojvt]

72. so when I filed three amended tax returns

that must have been deliberate, rather than some sort of error on my part. I could not possibly have made mistakes on my original returns, by accident or something.

Tell me, can my character still be attacked for these mistakes even though the errors I made were in the IRS's favor? Daschle had a motive - to save some $140,000 in taxes (although some part of that amount was penalty) but even then I was willing to give HIM the benefit of the doubt.

I mentioned him just to say, well what is good for the goose ...

Meaning, what they did to Daschle, perhaps we should do to Ryan.

[FatIrishBastard]

73. Yes

If you have a track record the likes of Mr. Ryan, you're damned right. Look, you're all over the place on this, based on your' posts' tenor & tone. I have no problem w/ what happened to Daschle...that was the point. Methinks you protest to much, and it almost looks like providing cover to a frog...rrrrrrreeeedip! I'm done witcha there, huckleberry. Woman o' the house, where's Me tea?

[KurtNYC]

17. Maybe they should ask if he killed anyone

and just forgot to mention that too.

heck we better ask everything again since Ryan is not seeking to be "fully transparent":

Were you born prior to 1977 ?
How much, in total, has al Qaeda paid you so far?
Did you remember to return the Weinermobile to Oscar?
Have you ever used Rogaine on the top middle of your forehead?
Is your wife a lobbyist?

[KharmaTrain]

18. In Fairness...

...this trust was in Wolfgang's wife's name and I would bet his name isn't part of the trust. Picking on this would be like attacking Theresa Heinz Kerry on her trusts.

[Grammy23]

27. A few questions---

Was this information omitted from their tax return?

Did they file a joint return?

Was this just on disclosure forms for the vetting process?

P.S. If it was for his tax return, I would suggest he find another CPA to prepare his return since this seems like a kind of big Boo Boo. And furthermore, I imagine this same accountant might have been involved in preparing the materials for the vetting process. So this person seems woefully lax in the work they do. Maybe they want us to believe that Paulie sat at the kitchen table, shuffling papers and using a calculator to prepare his tax return and he just lost some of the information in the pile?

[KharmaTrain]

28. Congressional Disclosure Forms...

These are forms he has to submit each year to Congress about his income and personal wealth. Sounds like he ammended them cause he knew that he'd be questioned on them if he became a veep candidate to square it with campaign disclosure forms he has to submit as well as part of Willard's vetting process.

From my reading of the article this sounds like money his wife inherited and was in her name only thus I could see how this could be ommited as Ryan's wealth/income...cause in truth it isn't. Now if his name is on an account and he has access to that money, that's another story...and one I suspect someone is or already has looked into.

I suspect we'll get the answer as to if they file jointly when he releases those two years of returns he says he will. Stay tuned...while I don't see any real fire here, it could be emabarassing. It also calls into question about the sources of Mr. Ryan's wealth and if he has any blind trusts that he isn't reporting...

[FarCenter]

46. A trust would file its own income tax return on a Form 1041.

A trust is a "person" for tax purposes, and it files its own income tax return.

If income is distributed to a beneficiary of the trust, the amount distributed is deducted from the trust's income, but it has to be reported on the beneficiary's 1040, i.e. the income is passed through to the beneficiary.

Given their other sources of income, its likely that they did not need to take a distribution from the trust. However, the terms of the trust can be written so that the trust must distribute current income.

See your accountant and tax lawyer for details.

[Arkansas Granny]

35. If that's the case, why would he disclose it now?

[KharmaTrain]

40. A Question Worth Asking...

My guess is that once he became a serious veep candidate and would have to file new disclosure forms someone tapped him on the shoulder and told him to include the trust. I would think that the Congressional forms that he ammended had little value (except to his congressional opponents) and thus he didn't think it was important to include his wife's holdings. Again, the key here is if that money is in her name only...and how it is reported to the IRS. If they file seperately and his name isn't on that trust I can see why he wouldn't include it.

I'm sure that Ryan knew that someone either knew or would find out about his wife's wealth and this was a pre-emptive move to take the lumps early rather than be embarassed later one with a front page story in the New York Times.

Cheers...

[Coyotl]

22. Calling CREW, we have a new Worst Scoundrel for you.

[cbdo2007]

24. Congress should make this a very severe penalty - 25% of the amount of the assets "forgotten"

That'll get them out of the woodwork to tell us how much they really have and if they don't, put the proceeds in some general fund.

[FailureToCommunicate]

25. "Oops"

[FarCenter]

48. Well, he was a Political Science major and a frat boy.

What do you expect?

[LondonReign2]

26. And under Ryan's plan

their capital gains income from that Trust wouldn't be taxed! Bonus!

[Bossy Monkey]

30. Prudence Little? What is this, "Pilgrim's Progress"? n/t

[gkhouston]

31. Sounds like the old Steve Martin joke about how to become a millionaire.

First, get a million dollars. Then, when the IRS asks about the money, say, "I forgot!".

[GraniteDem]

33. How Convenient!

As the church lady would say, "How Convenient"!

[Skidmore]

34. Kind of puts a dent into the impression they are trying to give of the Ryans being worth less than

$1M. I've seen a couple of reports that have him at just under that in the $900K range.

[LibDemAlways]

54. Excellent observation. He's probably not in Romney's league, but

he's definitely firmly entrenched in the 1%. That easily forgotten trust money was no doubt the equivalent of the average person discovering some change in a pants pocket.

[Sheepshank]

37. On the verge of getting caught.....

"Retroactively resolved" becomes the new fixit tool for the Romney campaign. As if an inadverdant omission regarding $1M-$5M is an easy oversight? Not buying it.

I'm beginning to see a pattern in the Romney/Ryan Republican Retroactive Readjustment Resolution Team

[George II]

44. That's why it's called the "Etch-a-Sketch" campaign!

[MrScorpio]

41. I wonder what it's like to find a couple of million bucks under the sofa nt

[George II]

43. I would love to have enough money that would cause $1-$5M to be overlooked!!!!!

[HopeHoops]

49. I can understand that. I keep forgetting about a few million here and there on my returns.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

51. Mr. 1%

[valerief]

52. "What do you expect? It's just chump change to me." nt

[awoke_in_2003]

57. Clarence Thomas redux. nt

[bayareaboy]

58. That happens to me all the time ...

I have 5 mil or so in my wallet in my back pocket and I fall over sideways because the wallet is getting too large.

Happens all the time.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

62. no wonder he and Mr. Bain get along so well. They have so much in commoners.

er, common. Well, no, not common. Elite.

[progressivebydesign]

71. What? Financial DISCLOSURE forms? You mean like McCain fills out every year???

They're shooting themselves in the foot again. Gosh.. you mean when they hold up McCain as an example of only giving TWO years' returns, and ignoring the fact that he has to disclose his finances, that's different?

They keep saying McCain only gave two years!!! But he has to disclose his finances yearly, just like Eddie Munster. Wonder if any journalists will pick up on that gem, outside of Ryan lying about the trust.

And he forgot TWICE? Who does his taxes? Mr. Magoo?

[tomm2thumbs]

75. and we are supposed to trust ANY numbers he presents to Americans at this point?

Voters can smell a skunk liar a block away, and this one hasn't even gotten into the neighborhood yet and it ALREADY stinks.

Wait until it gets closer to November - people are going to start keeling over, retching from the smell of it.

[Cognitive_Resonance]

76. Interesting that he checked the following "No" box on the original 2011 filing--

Under EXCLUSION OF SPOUSE, DEPENDENT, OR TRUST INFORMATION:

Trusts- Details regarding "Qualified Blind Trusts" approved by the Committee on Ethics and certain other "excepted trusts" need not be disclosed. Have you excluded from this report details of such a trust benefitting you, your spouse, or dependent child?

He clearly checked "No"

http://pfds.opensecrets.org/N00004357_2011.pdf

[DonRedwood]

77. How many millions in his IRA?

[Cognitive_Resonance]

79. and the Trust appears to be the largest single holding among their disclosed portfolio

Sure doesn't look like a case of "an inadvertent oversight", not when it's the big enchilada

[highplainsdem]

81. True. This was very unlikely to be "inadvertent."

[kentuck]

82. Very interesting...

"...Ryan had not sought to be fully transparent about his income and investments until he felt compelled to do so."

[gollygee]

83. I don't buy it. Wouldn't he have an accountant who filled this stuff out for him.

His accountant wouldn't forget it. No way he does his own taxes and keeps track of this stuff himself.

[reformist2]

87. Ryan gives off a middle class vibe...public should know he's a 1%-er.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. But the public needs to know this (I suspect they think he's a nice, well-meaning middle-class boy), and then make up their own minds whether he's still on their side or not.

[NNN0LHI]

92. In all honestly it is very easy to forget about a $5 Million dollar trust

Heck I do that all the time myself.



Don