Bernie: Whites who are uncomfortable voting for black candidates are "not necessarily racist"

[Maven]

“I think you know there are a lot of white folks out there who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American,” Sanders told The Daily Beast, referencing the close contests involving Andrew Gillum in Florida and Stacey Abrams in Georgia and that ads run against the two. “I think next time around by the way it will be a lot easier for them to do that.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/bernie-sanders-on-andrew-gillium-and-stacey-abrams-many-whites-uncomfortable-voting-for-black-candidates?ref=scroll

Oh, Bernie. Still trying to woo racist white Trump voters, I see. Kind of reminds me of this tweet three days (!) before the 2016 election:

Link to tweet

At least he's consistent.

[Tipperary]

1. Wow.

[brush]

23. Sometimes it's best to just STFU. He's not helping.

[UniteFightBack]

67. Sure he's helping......his own re-election bid for 2020...or so he hopes. nt

[brush]

74. True. He's still after the white, working class vote who vote repug now.

[Gothmog]

112. You can not win the Democratic nomination with that as your only base of support

Last edited Thu Nov 8, 2018, 03:09 PM - Edit history (1)

[brush]

124. I think you mean "can't win".

[Gothmog]

146. sorry

[WhiskeyGrinder]

2. Really interested to see what kind of work he's been doing to bridge that gap!

*crickets*

"I think you know there are a lot of white folks out there who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American."

Yeah see that is ACTUALLY RACISM.

[apcalc]

212. Yup, THAT IS RACISM.

And he just keeps on digging that hole. Pretty much clueless.

[allgood33]

232. Never will forget he wanted to primary President Obama.

[honest.abe]

3. Good grief. Why is he defending these people??

Bernie go home!

[calimary]

177. I second that.

Bernie - GO HOME.

[INdemo]

4. Dumb statement Bernie..just very dumb

[NurseJackie]

111. This will probably forever disqualify him from seeking higher office. No matter...

Dumb statement Bernie..just very dumb

This will probably forever disqualify him from seeking higher office. No matter what apology or walk-back follows... something like this isn't easily forgiven, nor is it quickly forgotten. This kind of "political baggage" is a millstone that will weigh-down any future campaigns with devastating consequences.

[luvs2sing]

5. Just what the hell..

Does he think racism is???

🤦🏻?♀️🤦🏻?♀️🤦🏻?♀️

[uponit7771]

6. What would Sander consider a racist then? What is his bar?

[NurseJackie]

197. Schroedinger's Racism

The way I've heard it explained recently, is that you can be a racist and NOT a racist at the same time depending on what the intentions are.

I guess we could call it: Schroedinger's Racism. If you can't see into someone's heart and if you don't know whether or not they have evil or hatred in their heart, then you can't describe their overt racism as actually being racist. They are both racist and pure-hearted at the same time.

What is his bar?

I do not know the answer to that, but I think it's safe to guess that it's probably a very low one, that's for sure. All I'm saying is that it's easy to see racism for what it is, and to call it out for what it is, and it serves NO good purpose for anyone to offer sympathy or support for racists.

[MrsCoffee]

7. For all of his "progressiveness", he is still way behind the times.

[Bfd]

56. That kinda blows his 'progressive' label. Wth!

In this racist climate he couldn't have made a bigger blunder.

Is he playing both sides for 2020?
ala horseshoe?
Someone explain wth he intends to accomplish by that statement, cuz this is precisely what I'm hearing in his words.

Which makes his reason more self serving than anything else.
Man, just when I was convinced he was a one to listen to.
Oh well.

[MrsCoffee]

62. I really don't think he is going to run.

He has really put his foot in it this time.

He is the wrong person with the wrong message for our future.

[Bfd]

135. This did it for progressive Democrats & it really reeks of racism.

This re-identifies his base.
Oh boy.

[Adrahil]

8. . Dude never learns. NT

[vi5]

9. I love Bernie, but he's wrong.

Yes they are. They are racists.

At this point, anyone who votes Republican is a bigot, plain and simple. It may be that they are homophobic but not racist, or racist, but not misogynist, but every single Republican voter is flat out a fucking bigot and they should be treated as such.

[Small-Axe]

10. It is racism by definition.

Appalling, but not that surprising.

[calimary]

181. Welcome to DU, Small-Axe!

Appalling indeed. Some people are just good at stepping in it. Some others are equally good at generating it and THEN stepping in it.

[brer cat]

266. Well said! nt

[yardwork]

215. Racism, by definition.

[LexVegas]

11. To be honest, I am not at all surprised when this guy says stuff like this. nt

[kcr]

140. Me neither. I don't get the shocked responses. This is classic Bernie n/t

[Caliman73]

249. Unfortunately I agree.

I like Bernie's message against the income inequality, but he has ALWAYS had the very "classic socialist" blind spot about how deeply intertwined racism is with economic inequality. Like many other classic socialists the whole focus is on "class struggle" as if somehow, but magic, racial inequality will be addressed as soon as we get rid of the negative influences of corporate greed and income inequality.


He doesn't realize (either by ignorance of willful blindness) how strongly racial bias affects the decisions of many White people who seemingly (and actually) vote against their economic self interests. The reality is that economic self interest is a rather abstract and cerebral concept while racism and racial bias is a completely emotional response. EMOTIONS TRUMP LOGIC. Whites who are uncomfortable voting for Black candidates are undoubtedly driven by a very minimum of racial bias. Many people, as stated up thread, think that it isn't racism if it isn't overtly saying, "I hate ni$$ers, think I am better than them, and must therefore kill them or make their lives miserable". Why would you be uncomfortable voting for a person based solely on the color of their skin if not for racism? The same exact words coming out of Andrew Gillium's mouth coming out of a White person's mouth would have lead to a double digit victory over DiSantis.

As I began, unfortunately, race has been Bernie's biggest failure and in this time where women of color, and men of color are making advances into government to represent all people, We as Democrats, liberals, and progressives cannot afford to run away from looking at things from multiple angles including the very important racial equality angle.

As much as Bernie has fought for economic equality and put that message out into the mainstream in an accessible way, I do hope that he does not run in 2020.

[marylandblue]

280. That's a very cogent response, but even a lot of socialists do get it

Racism has been used since early colonial days to divide poor whites from blacks. Socialism can only suceed by addressing that issue.

[Caliman73]

281. Definitely. Broad brush statements are fraught...

They lump people who are aware with those who are not. It wasn't a slight against socialists in general. Historically there has been many rifts within socialist circles because some (typically White and what might be called classical socialists) only see "class struggle" and everything else is subordinate and will be corrected when the workers unite and democratize everything. Nice concept, but it never really takes into account the very deeply rooted racial and gender biases that are baked into most societies.

As you said, a great many people do get it and work to address it. Bernie Sanders unfortunately has been narrow minded at best about the issue or perhaps too calculating about it because of his desire to court the "white working class".

[qwlauren35]

307. You nailed it.

That's how I have felt for the last 3-4 years.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. SMFH

[nini]

13. Not surprised at all

I've been on to him for a long time. It amazes me how he's still so relevant.

[R B Garr]

25. ++++++++

Yes!

[NurseJackie]

116. Preach.

[nini]

243. LOL

great gif

[Kahuna7]

216. This nt

[Jersey Devil]

14. I like Bernie, though not for President and think his heart is in the right place, but

this seems like a massively stupid statement for someone with so much experience in politics.

[hlthe2b]

15. Bernie's got that albatross around his neck from past stances and comments, yet...

Keeps renewing its ties around his neck.

Geebus.

[workinclasszero]

16. WTH Bernie?

[mcar]

17. Yes, Bernie, they are

[NurseJackie]

300. Is he ever going to apologize, or what?

[mcar]

301. He seems to think his "clarification" sufficed

it didn't.

[NurseJackie]

305. It made it worse. It was pouring salt into the wounds...

It made it worse. It was pouring salt into the wounds of people who were deeply hurt and offended by his remark.

[mcar]

308. Even long-time politicians can be tone deaf at times

[NurseJackie]

309. And stubborn. There's no good reason that he could not offer a sincere apology.

#Sad
#Pity

[mcar]

310. Yep

SMDH

[LisaM]

18. Because he couldn't admit that some of his own voters

were those things. We just have a long way to go, sadly.

[lapucelle]

19. ...

[Afromania]

20. Just by luck you'd think he'd miss a branch on the way out of the dense tree

but nope, he's hitting them all square on. Bernie needs to keep a little note in his wallet that instructs him anytime he has a thought about racism and white people that his best move is to just say nothing and move along.

[ismnotwasm]

21. Yes they are necessarily racist.

What, exactly does he think racism is?

[Blaukraut]

22. Not voting for someone because of race is racism. Period. n/t

[The Genealogist]

24. Sigh

If you have an issue voting for someone because of their race, that is racism, Bernie. I know you believe that the core issue for these people is economic anxiety. I think you are wrong.

[still_one]

26. When I was younger, and when Hank Aaron broke Babe Ruth's homerun record, I remember all excuses I

was hearing from people, who happened to be white, why it didn't "really count". The excuses were everything from they used heavy baseballs in Ruth's time, to the baseball fields were longer.

I am sure that had nothing to do with racism either:

[Jersey Devil]

30. No one should have gone through what he did the winter before he broke the record

He ended the previous season at 713 home runs, one short of Ruth. Over that winter he and his family received tons of death threats and insults that disgusted me.

[still_one]

57. Absolutely Jersey. It was so cruel and unfair

[ProfessorGAC]

264. Remember When He Hit 715

Those 2 white kids ran on the field to celebrate with him, and Hank look petrified.

Many years later, those two kids (now in their 50's) said they actually did it to provide a bit of a shield in cases some nut decided to take a shot.

Of course, the stadium was on red alert because of the threats and that wasn't very likely, but these two well meaning guys practically scared Hank to death.

[George II]

71. Interesting you bring that up. Back then I was really worried about Aaron's safety.

He was one short of tying the record at the end of the 1973 season. I thought some nut case out there would have tried to kill him during the off-season to keep him from breaking the record in 1974.

Even he was worried about being killed before the beginning of the next season, and received lots of death threats.

Of course, that had nothing to do with his race.

[still_one]

157. I don't know George, when I read this OP for some reason that event came into my mind

It has been going on a long time, and denial doesn’t cut it

[EffieBlack]

173. I'll bet none of them considered that Ruth didn't have to go up against black pitchers

who would have made it much harder for him to hit homer us back in the day.

[still_one]

198. well said

[R B Garr]

27. Wow

[NurseJackie]

28. This is just too much! Unforgivable.

“I think you know there are a lot of white folks out there who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American,” Sanders told The Daily Beast,

This is just too much! Unforgivable. Over the line, Bernie... over the line.

[mathewgeorge]

29. Does supporting a racist make your racist? I think so.

Does supporting a racist make your racist? I think so.

[tavernier]

31. I like to vote for the person I think is best candidate.

But if the candidate is a proven racist, and I believe he is a racist, then if I vote for him, I would also be a racist. Same for sexist.

[Demsrule86]

79. Are you advocating voting for Republicans? I strenuously disagree...vote Democratic always.

[tavernier]

84. The better candidate is always a Democrat.

I thought that was implied.

[Demsrule86]

89. Not really implied but thanks for the update.

[grantcart]

32. So how about "progressives" that called for a primary of President Obama?

Just needs more time to get over their discomfort?

[Guppy]

33. It goes to their core

These people don't think they are racist but they are complicit and support a racist.

[Bleacher Creature]

34. Jesus Bernie, really?!?!

Every time I start to warm up to the guy he goes and reminds me why he's bugged the hell out of me for his entire career.

[better]

35. Please hear me out, because I do think there's a lesson here that we need to learn.

The way I express the version of this message in which there is some truth is this:

A person need not actually be racist in order to hold views or positions rooted in racism.
They need only be ignorant of the racist underpinnings of such views or positions.

There are indeed those who hold such views because they are in fact racist, but there are also those who are not racist, but hold such views in large part because they do not realize that the reason they were enlisted in holding them was to further someone else's racism. One of those types is irredeemable, while the other is not.

Secretary Clinton even addressed this distinction herself in her ill-fated "deplorables" speech.

[ZeroSomeBrains]

44. I think you are on to something

He was inarticulate in what he said. I think he is trying to reach out to the Obama Trump voters who are uncomfortable on race issues but can still be reached. I have heard horribly racist things from people lately and they should not be pandered to.

[Me.]

101. Inarticulate?

[emulatorloo]

180. Just another chapter in the "What Bernie REALLY meant to say was this" saga

Any time Bernie says something wrong or dumb, some well meaning DU’er will come along and let us know with story what Bernie ‘actually meant to say’

[EffieBlack]

175. Inarticulate? Seriously?

Grading him on a pretty steep curve, aren’t you?

[ZeroSomeBrains]

259. My comment isn't really about Senator Sanders

It's about the tone of the coming 2020 campaign. I loved when Hillary called half of Trump's voters deplorables because they are. But there has to be a way to reach out to the mildly racist people who voted for Trump that can be reached. If we could win the Presidency by popular vote this wouldn't be necessary but we are in a system where the electoral college elects the President.

Every minority voter, young person and apathetic non-voter should always be the main target but at least having some sort of message to the reachable individuals in the middle is necessary. Is he reaching out to people with racist opinions. Yes. It's unfortunately the world we live in. There's a lot of shitty white people in this country. We're all a little racist as James Comey would say. Maybe some of them will change with a little coaxing.

And just for the record I have no idea what he means when he talks. Only Senator Sanders does. But since he is the Democrats point man on outreach to the other side that is why I think he said what he said.

[EffieBlack]

262. Sanders is Outreach Chair, not "Chair of Outreach to the Other Side"

A big part of outreach - at least successful outreach - is reaching out to people on OUR side, including a whole lot of minority voters. It's insulting and maddening to watch people like Sanders not only ignore us but actually consistently insult us by going out of his way to reach out to and make excuses for voters who hate us and vote Republican because they hate us and think Republicans will put us in our places. But when pushed to do any outreach to US, he shakes his finger and scolds against engaging in the dreaded "identity politics."

I used to think Sanders meant well, but was too caught up in his own ego and sureness of his superiority on all issues racial to realize that minorities can hear him when he says stupid things like this. Now I realize we're not even close to being on his radar, so he. just. doesn't. care.

I'm sick of him and his tired schtick. I'm tempted to go further and say what I REALLY think of him, his comments and his backward, arrogant attitude, but I'm just not in the mood for the responses that would provoke. So I'll pull my punch and just say he's too tone-deaf to be taken seriously anymore.

[betsuni]

269. +1

[ZeroSomeBrains]

271. I completely understand your perspective

I am a white male so I can only imagine what it is like to be a person of color living in this country right now. I've tried to reach out to racist Bernie people who didn't vote for Hillary and the one's that I have tried have not tried to change. I really hope that us white people would act more civilised and try and put ourselves in other people's shoes more like President Obama has said. It's usually easier said than done.

[obamanut2012]

206. Wrong -- stop embarrassing yourself

[marybourg]

46. I think there's validity to what you say, but only

to the extent that someone might feel uncomfortable about black culture and their own awkwardness with it. Once you get into the realm of treating a black person differently, for example, being uncomfortable about voting for one, that’s racism, even without “evil intent”.

[better]

130. I will readily agree with you there, with a caveat.

Where one is uncomfortable voting for a black candidate because they are black, it is quite justifiably attributable to racism. Where one is uncomfortable voting for a black candidate for some other reason, however, like say because they are a Democrat, it may not be quite so much a clear marker of actual racism as it is a marker of being ill-informed.

[EffieBlack]

179. Then they aren't uncomfortable with voting for a black candidate but for a Democrat

But Bernie didn’t say that - he was telling us why he thinks some white people didn’t vote for BLACK candidates. Two different things.

[obamanut2012]

207. Mr Pretzel

[LanternWaste]

48. I really dig the way you guys try to rationalize this stuff.

Regardless of whether it's actively ill-will or merely a passive ignorance, acting in a racist manner inherently and directly indicates racism.

If I act in a criminal manner, regardless of my own ignorance of jurisprudence and the law, I am, by definition, a criminal.

Not rooted in criminality.

Not an underpinning of criminality.

Criminal. Period.

Ignorance is never an excuse. It's merely a justification.

[better]

102. Please note the difference between rationalizing racism and objectively identifying what actually is

Since you mentioned the law, let's examine the elements of accomplice liability, which directly relates to what we're discussing here.

A crime was committed by another individual;
The defendant "aided, counseled, commanded, or encouraged" the other person in the commission of the crime.
The defendant acted with the requisite mental state in their jurisdiction,for example, knowingly or purposefully, to assist in the crime.

If a store clerk leaves the door unlocked so that the place can be robbed later that night, they are liable as an accomplice.
If they genuinely just absent-mindedly forget to lock it, and it does get robbed, they are not.

I'm saying that we should apply the same standard to dealing with people who vote in such a way that leaves the door open for racism. The fact that their action aids an offense does not automatically mean that they supported the offense. Failure to prevent an offense is not the same thing as knowing facilitation of it. Still detrimental and to be corrected, but not at all the same.

[obamanut2012]

208. lulz

[ecstatic]

227. In normal times, perhaps. But not now,

the lines are clear. Either you support the self avowed white nationalist in chief, or you don't. If you vote republican because you're "uncomfortable voting for an African American," that means you've made a conscious decision to support trump.

[emulatorloo]

183. "What Bernie REALLY meant to say" is a long-standing tradition at DU

[Cha]

257. David Corn explains..

Link to tweet

[R B Garr]

49. Except that this looks like a way to ignore the real

possibilities that the very far left talking points were rejected — talk about race instead.

[George II]

94. I think that's very accurate. It's kind of like (but not exactly) trump yesterday....

....pointing out ONLY republicans who lost that didn't ask for his support. He completely ignored all the republicans who lost who DID get his support.

Dean Heller lost to Jacky Rosen
Matt Rosendale lost to Jon Tester
Patrick Morrisey lost to Joe Manchin

etc.....

Sanders blaming black candidates Gillum's and Abrams' losses (they haven't lost yet, though!) on white voters being "uncomfortable" is innately racist. Maybe he should look at himself, perhaps his support for those candidates made voters "uncomfortable"?

[R B Garr]

261. Exactly! And what was notable about Gillum is that he

got stuck explaining funding single payer in ways that Bernie has never been expected to do. What a shame.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

52. If someone is uncomfortable, they're aware of it. That's being racist.

If Bernie is crap at expressing himself about racism, maybe he should just STFU.

[UniteFightBack]

66. I feel that is the difference between prejudices and racism. nt

[NurseJackie]

78. Reminds me of the meaningless distinction that homophobic bigots make when...

Reminds me of the meaningless distinction that homophobic bigots make when they claim that they're not *really* bigots... instead, they describe it as simply exercising their "freedom of religion" by refusing to serve the LGBT community.

I feel that is the difference between prejudices and racism.

What exactly is the difference between being "prejudiced" against Black Americans or being a "racist"? How is that any better? What's the distinction? Why is this excusable or acceptable?

[better]

114. It's neither better nor excusable/acceptable.

But the difference between prejudice and racism is that prejudice can and often does exist without the person even being aware of it, and that there is at least the chance that once made aware of it, they can and will change it.

This is where we get into the importance of articulation, specifically where it pertains to avoiding putting the recipient of communication on the defensive, which is nearly universally guaranteed to hamper effective dialog.

We absolutely should call out racism when and where it is properly identified, but the moment we incorrectly identify as racism something that is actually far less malignant (only where the identification is actually incorrect, mind you), we hinder our potential to overcome a subconscious prejudice, because now they're defensive instead of objective.

It's all about recognizing that this problem exists on a scale from unwitting accomplice to fully aware participant, correctly identifying where along that scale a specific individual really is, and approaching them accordingly. The truly racist ones we will likely never reach, while we might reach those who are unwittingly empowering the truly racist ones. But we won't reach the reachable ones by calling them racist anywhere near as well as we might by pointing out how their actions have the effect of furthering racism.

[NurseJackie]

122. Oh good lord!

Oh good lord! Making excuses. Hyper-analyzing. Inventing justifications. Defending the indefensible. Using clever euphemistic labels. What Jungian hogwash!

[GulfCoast66]

174. I'm Shocked! Shocked, reading the justifications here.

Actually, I’m not.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

[Demsrule86]

170. Sounds like a giant excuse for racist scum...I see no difference between prejudice and racism.

[lunamagica]

228. "We incorrectly identify as racism something that is actually far less malignant (only where the

e incorrectly identify as racism something that is actually far less malignant (only where the identification is actually incorrect, mind you)"

Could you please give me an example of this? Because I can't think of anything.

[better]

234. Sure! Perhaps the most relevant example in this era is opposition to Obamacare.

Obviously, there are those who opposed it purely because they are racists and couldn't stand the idea of a black man getting credit for anything positive, or being shown to be a competent and wise leader. But there were also those who are not racist, but were genuinely financially hurt by the implementation of the law. And most importantly, because they did not realize that they were hurt by the way the law was sabotaged by Republicans doing things like defunding the risk corridor payments for the specific purpose of destabilizing the ACA marketplaces.

So here's the thing. Their grievances were valid. They were being charged more for insurance, and penalized if they didn't buy it. The reason they were given for why that was happening was a lie. And that lie itself was rooted in the racism that so animated the opposition to everything President Obama did.

I wager that almost if not all of us on this board agree that racism was the root of almost all of the opposition to Obamacare. What I'm pointing out is that you don't have to actually be racist to get co-opted into something someone else is doing because they're racist. You just have to not notice that they're doing it because they're racist, and feeding you whatever flavor of bullshit will get you to go along.

I am and have always been virulently anti-racist. But that alone neither made me a good ally nor exempted me from being susceptible to the bullshit Republicans fed me as a young man in the mid-south. It wasn't until I started paying close attention to politics that I began to recognize the ways in which I had been manipulated to favor policies because those policies advanced a racist agenda with which I do not agree.

The way I voted prior to 2004 endangered and disenfranchised the black, gay and other vulnerable communities, without any doubt. But having grown up with a gay black foster-brother whom I regard as my own blood, and having disowned my own grandmother after she called me a nigger-lover for objecting to her overt racism, I can pretty well assure you it was not because I am racist or homophobic.

The point I'm getting at is that there are quite a few people like me who are not actually racist, and who would naturally be allies in stomping out racism, but may still need some guidance in how, where and why they are going wrong and how they can do better.

[lunamagica]

240. If their grievance was that they were charged more for insurance and penalized if they didn't buy it

Then the issue was policy, not race. But that is not what Sanders said

These were his exact words: “I think you know there are a lot of white folks out there who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American,” Their problem, according to Sanders, was not Obamacare or any other political issue, the problem about race.

“I think next time around by the way it will be a lot easier for them to do that.” Why? If they have a problem with the issues, why would it be a lot easier the next time?

[Maven]

80. This isn't an academic exercise. It's politics.

It isn't our job to suss out the deeper meaning of his statements.

He makes too many statements that excuse the racist attitudes and behaviors of Republican voters. They can't all be a misunderstanding or a mistake.

[Snotcicles]

224. Horseshit. nt

[Demsrule86]

86. I consider this absolute rubbish...if you are 'uncomfortable' voting for a person

of color than you are a racist-no exceptions. Sen. Sanders should not give these folks a pass either. They need to hear the truth. Trump make enough excuses for them. This is akin to the 'good people on both sides comment'.

[obamanut2012]

205. No, if they dont think someone black is the best for the job because he is black

THEY ARE FUCKING RACISTS!

NO wiggle room.

Zero.

And yeah, some purity tests are needed, and this is one of them.

Quite excusing this.

And quite using Hillary to excuse this, when she didn't say what you want people to think she said.

[yardwork]

217. If you hold racist views then you are, by definition, racist.

[nini]

244. BS

There's no gray area with racism.

You either are or your'e not.

[dlk]

36. Does Bernie's Belief Have Any Quantifiable Evidence to Back it Up That Assertion?

Evidence matters.

[marybourg]

37. Apparently to Bernie -and many other Americans-

if you wouldn’t dream of putting on a while robe, or burning across, but are just a little squeamish about a black having the same rights as you, you’re not really a racist.

[NurseJackie]

45. You've described it perfectly. With this, he's pretty much disqualified himself...

... from being a serious contender for any nationwide office. All I'm saying is that no matter what kind of apology, or "mea culpa" or "walking-back" comes next... that bell can't be un-rung. It's a deeply hurtful thing he's said and it will be impossible for people to forgive the unforgivable. It's a very sad day.

[Demsrule86]

90. They are no different than those who don the white robes in my view.

[Thrill]

38. Jeesh

[UniteFightBack]

39. He wants to run in 2020...Bernie is just politic-in'. nt

[catbyte]

43. Courting the "uncomfortable with & don't trust those scary dark people" vote?

[revmclaren]

76. He's lost so many other voters up to now

he has to court them to even have a chance in 2020.



Only! 2019 and beyond.

[catbyte]

40. Then what is it, Bernie?

[ProudLib72]

41. I don't know how he manages to speak with his foot constantly in his mouth

Bernie, Bernie, Bernie!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

42. Or why people take him seriously.

Unless, of course, they agree with him.

[NurseJackie]

72. I think this may end up disqualifying him from any realistic aspirations of higher office.

Or why people take him seriously.

I think this may end up disqualifying him from any realistic aspirations of higher office.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

73. BRING THE DAY.

[NurseJackie]

127. ...

[Peacetrain]

47. What the hell??

Refusing to vote for someone because of their skin color is the height of racism.. it is an irrational through pattern.. you vote for people based on shared values, and who will do the better job.. (which by the way really has me questioning a bunch of evangelicals who are white) and just to remind everyone.. not all evangelicals are Trump fans and or are white....Trump runs his campaigns on racism and sexism.. if you vote for him, you share his values.. Bernie is a brick short of a full load with his thinking

[Baitball Blogger]

50. Well, he's a white man with a white man's perspective.

I believe that he really believes that.

And sorry, Bernie. If the white folk don't feel comfortable voting for an African-American, that's a symptom of racism. The ignorance you acquire from living an insular lifestyle doesn't take you off the hook. Especially true in 2018.


“I think you know there are a lot of white folks out there who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American,”

[NurseJackie]

109. That is an astute observation and analysis...

I believe that he really believes that.

That is an astute observation and analysis. All the more's the pity.

Something like this will probably forever disqualify him from seeking higher office. No matter what apology or walk-back follows... something like this isn't easily forgiven, nor is it quickly forgotten. This kind of "political baggage" is a millstone that will weigh-down any future campaigns with devastating consequences.

[George II]

141. I wonder how many black candidates he's ever been in a position to vote for? He didn't register...

...to vote until he was almost 40 years old and had lived in Vermont for over a decade, and Vermont has precious few black candidates.

I'm white, and I have no qualms about voting for a black candidate. I wish a white man who probably has never voted for a black candidate would stop telling US white people what makes us "uncomfortable".

[Cuthbert Allgood]

235. Jesus Christ. We're back to questioning Sanders commitment to race equality?

I mean, I realize he doesn't have the support of Goldwater in his past, but can we at least admit that he worked for the Civil Rights Act in the 60s?

Or not. Do whatever the fuck you want. But it gets old seeing this level of revisionism here.

[George II]

241. Where do I start? Okay, let me try:

1. Read the OP, that is rife with direct quotes of Sanders, those are his words.
2. What does Barry Goldwater have to do with this, who mentioned him?
3. "He worked for the Civil Rights Act in the 60s"? The Civil Rights act was introduced in 1963 - Sanders was still in college at that time!
4. How is anything that I posted "revisionism"?

There you go.

[Wintryjade]

129. So, he falls into the group he is talking about. Republicans do not see themselves as racist,

Last edited Fri Nov 9, 2018, 01:18 AM - Edit history (1)

as they have racist behaviors?

[Cuthbert Allgood]

236. Read about Sanders in the 60s.

Because clearly you know nothing about him if that is your view.

[Wintryjade]

247. I am pretty well versed. Ask me anything.

[EffieBlack]

263. It's not the 60s

[George II]

138. Perhaps he believes that, but on what does he base it? I don't think he's ever been in the shoes....

....of a white person voting for or against a black candidate.

He never voted before he moved up to Vermont, and they have had very very few black candidates on the ballot. In fact, as of a month or two ago there was only one black elected official, who was forced to resign and all but go into hiding due to threats.

I wouldn't attempt to try to judge anyone about something I've never experienced myself.

[EffieBlack]

265. He thinks he's an expert on this

He did get arrested protesting 50 years ago, you know ...

[LisaM]

199. And he thinks (IMO) that economic identity is okay, but all other identity

is not. You're right that it's a white man's perspective, because whether he likes it or not, he's the status quo of elected officials. He himself practices identity politics, only with economics, not his sex or his religion or anything else in his background.

[Hortensis]

51. Lol to Bernie's pasting a target on his forehead and

passing out paint guns.

It does remind that back in the 1960s I-Sanders was himself among a bunch of white NY left-wingers who fled "back to the land" by going north to very conservative, rural, white states (and not to points south with longer growing seasons).

So after decades in a very white state, I suspect he's describing an attitude he's familiar with. A lot of people are made anxious and even fearful by change. They don't just prefer but need to observe the water from a distance for a while, making sure waders survive the experience, and then cautious step in to see what a wave feels like.

“I think next time around it will be a lot easier for them to do that.”

As for discussion of what constitutes racism, the spectrum of racism, whether there is a spectrum or we're all just shithead people in a shithole nation, I'd almost rather stick a needle in my eye.

[JHan]

99. yup this. ++++++

[dawg day]

260. We Had a black president for eight years.

Majority votes each time. If Sanders is still saying, maybe next time, well, he is too patient. The "uncomfortable" have had plenty of time to acclimate. And this goes along with how they also don't feel right yet about women candidates. Time's up.

[Hortensis]

283. :) We don't get to say "time's up" for others,

unfortunately, only ourselves. That's just the way it is. Btw, reading about personality in politics can be fascinating. The human race evolved to survive and reproduce under incredibly different conditions, not these that replaced those in less than an eye-blink of evolutionary time.

Very cautious natures were far more functional in a world where humans were both food and hunters, the possibility of imminent death was always with everyone, and even the concept of germs, much less antibiotics, wouldn't happen for another 150K years.

[EffieBlack]

292. Minorities and women have been voting for white men for decades

We haven't had the luxury of refusing to vote for them because we're "uncomfortable."

These white folks just need to get over their damned selves. And Bernie needs to stop making excuses for them.

[tman]

53. He's already prepping for 2020, with Kamala Harris in mind.

He should probably stop talking about race.

[NurseJackie]

133. Too late.

He should probably stop talking about race.

Too late. He's basically disqualified himself from ever being viable for higher office. I'll be surprised if he remains in the Senate.

No matter what apology or walk-back follows... something like this isn't easily forgiven, nor is it quickly forgotten. This kind of "political baggage" is a millstone that will weigh-down any future campaigns with devastating consequences.

[Kahuna7]

214. BINGO! nt

[ecstatic]

226. She's too smart to run with him.

At least I hope so! Compare their resumes. There's no comparison!

[George II]

54. How can he possibly know that? How many of his constituents over the years...

...have even had an opportunity to vote for a black candidate in his 95% white state?

BARACK OBAMA is black, and in 2008 (TEN years ago!) he got more votes than any politician in the history of this country, the majority of whom were white. And then in 2012 he got the second highest vote total in history. Obviously in those two elections whites were not "uncomfortable" voting for a black candidate.

He's really reaching for a reason why candidates who he (lukewarmly) supported were not successful.

I'm a white voter, and I have no qualms about voting for a black candidate, an Asian candidate, a woman candidate, a gay candidate, etc.

As a white voter, on Tuesday I voted for a black man for Treasurer, an Asian man for Attorney General, a gay man for Comptroller, a Jewish man for State Senator, and a white woman for State Representative.

We don't need to be told why we're "uncomfortable" voting for certain demographics, especially since we're not uncomfortable.

[GulfCoast66]

178. Isn't that the same Barack Obama he wanted a primary challenge for in 2012?

Just checking.

[janterry]

55. Ouch. Not sure that works, Bernie

I suppose there are degrees of racism. Some people are just run-of-the-mill racist (not get out the pitchforks racism).

But it's still racism. And it still hurts.

[DBoon]

58. but they are necessarily Republican

and hence not a demographic we should care about.

[Bettie]

59. He's wrong

entirely wrong.

If your metric for not voting for a candidate is "I don't want to vote for a black person", then you are a racist.

[George II]

61. +1,000,000

[SidDithers]

60. Hey Bernie. Yes they are...

They’re the very definition of racist.



Sid

[Doodley]

63. Of course he thinks it is racist, but it isn't his style to insult voters he thinks could be useful.

[Demsrule86]

92. He says it is not racist in the comment, and I see no evidence he 'thinks' it is racist.

[MrsCoffee]

159. He has no problem insulting Democrats.

[Starry Messenger]

171. I guess he doesn't find women's or Black people's votes useful

Welp

[obamanut2012]

210. No he doesn't -- he thinks it isn't racist

Unless you think Sanders is a liar.

[LAS14]

64. Bernie, what WOULD make someone a racist?????? nt

[LincolnRossiter]

65. Bernie just can't get it right. Some (not all) good ideas on economic justice...

Completely deaf, dumb, and blind on race, gender, and social justice in general.

Full disclosure. I can't stand him. Haven't liked him since early 2016.

[NurseJackie]

69. ...

[Tavarious Jackson]

68. Maybe he speaks from expiriece?

It's a hurtful remark either way

[George II]

83. Experience? In his state there have been very very few black candidates for Vermonters...

....to be "uncomfortable" about.

[Demsrule86]

96. Vermont's Only Black Woman Lawmaker Pulls Out Of Race In Wake Of Online Threats

This is disturbing. Is this a Vermont base thing?



https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/vermonts-only-black-woman-lawmaker-pulls-out-of-race-in-wake-of-online-threats_us_5b848992e4b0162f471bb0ee

[George II]

128. I was going to mention that but...

figured I'd leave it out for now.

Glad you brought it up.

I didn't see anyone up there come to her defense.

[Demsrule86]

160. I didn't either. I would not vote for Sen. Sanders in a primary...general sure-anyone but Trump.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

237. Yes. As he was getting arrested in Chicago in the 60s fighting for Civil Rights

he was hiding his closet racism.

[EffieBlack]

268. Oh please

Yes, like thousands and thousands of people, he was arrested and paid a fine. Unlike thousands and thousands of people, Bernie's been living on that for 50 years, using that as a "don't ever question me about anything I say about race no matter how racially insensitive or stupid it is because look what I did for you black people once when I was 20 and you should be grateful to me" card.

Give it a rest.

[George II]

274. Yes, he got arrested in Chicago, was fined a whopping $25 and sent on his way.

So what did he do when he graduated from college? Move back to racially diverse Brooklyn to continue to fight for Civil Rights? No. He headed for Burlington Vermont, which at the time was >99% white, to continue the fight.

https://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0076/twps0076.pdf

At the same time, in the 1960s, THIS is what was happening to those fighting for Civil Rights. This is John Lewis, who Sanders supporters BOOED at the Convention in 2016, getting his skull cracked open fighting for Civil Rights.

[EffieBlack]

282. THANK you!

[betsuni]

291. +1

[qazplm135]

70. wow...so two predictions...

1. He's running for President in 2020.
2. He will once again lose in the primary. In fact, I will predict he doesn't even end up in the top 3.
Much like Hillary had blind spots she simply could not get out of effectively, so does Bernie. Race and social issues are his blind spots.
He's got economics down pat, but that's only half the equation, and race and social issues are even more in the forefront than they were in 2016 on our side.

And saying "my economic policies will help black people" does not solve that blind spot.

[BannonsLiver]

75. And so ends Bernie 2020 before it even started

Bye bye Bernie.

[Tavarious Jackson]

77. I think it was a dog whistle to Trump's base for 2020... nt

[BannonsLiver]

81. Who walk around chanting "Jews will not replace us."

Good luck with that, Bernie.

[NurseJackie]

87. Many people agree with you. With this...

And so ends Bernie 2020 before it even started

Many people agree with you. With this, it appears that he may have permanently disqualified himself from ever being able to see office higher than what he currently has.

Is this his swan song? Does he have any intention of running for Senate again? Or is this how he's chosen to write the final chapter of his career in public service?

All I'm trying to say here is that he's made a big mistake that's likely to tarnish whatever legacy he had hoped to create for himself. Things like this aren't easily forgiven nor are they quickly forgotten.

[Maven]

88. Yes, this should be disqualifying.

He simply isn't the right person to lead us out of this mess.

[OneBro]

82. Had to be Trump in a Bernie mask.

Someone check his neck for glue residue.

[obamanut2012]

211. wrong

[Me.]

85. Finally

The real Bernie has finally shown up and, is he talking about himself.

[NurseJackie]

91. Here's a cut-and-paste...

Here's a cut-and-paste of something I just posted in reply to someone else. What I said earlier also applies and seems to be an appropriate response to you here.

The real Bernie has finally shown up and, is he talking about himself.

Many people agree with you. With this, it appears that he may have permanently disqualified himself from ever being able to see office higher than what he currently has.

Is this his swan song? Does he have any intention of running for Senate again? Or is this how he's chosen to write the final chapter of his career in public service?

All I'm trying to say here is that he's made a big mistake that's likely to tarnish whatever legacy he had hoped to create for himself. Things like this aren't easily forgiven nor are they quickly forgotten.

[Me.]

95. You Do Have To Wonder Why

Is he not aware of what just happened in this election, how ugly with racism it was, how Nathan DEal's wife wondered if Stacy Abrams would be able to properly take care of the governor's mansion. How minorities found they weren't going to be allowed to vote. Or is he blind to what has been happening so blind that he could/ would make such a statement? Is he losing it? He will never be allowed to forget this as the country keeps moving beyond the politics of indignity and repression.

[Demsrule86]

100. I posted above about a Black candidate (elected before) who withdrew from her race due

to threats in Vermont.

[Me.]

103. Shameful Episode

and why didn't he stand up for her?

[Demsrule86]

104. I don't know. It seems he doesn't help Democrats in his state much to me...don't they have a GOP

governor?

[Me.]

107. No But He'll Run In The Dem Primary

win and then step aside leaving the DEms with no candidate to run.

[Demsrule86]

120. That is true...I found that disturbing.

[sheshe2]

137. +++

[Small-Axe]

98. I think these remarks do reflect the real Bernie Sanders...

however, I feel "that" Bernie showed up a long time ago and was a large part of why millions of African American voters rejected him.

I suspect we are not in disagreement here.

I pray he stays out of 2020.

[comradebillyboy]

113. He's always been like this. But anyone who pointed it out

was attacked by his fans.

[Me.]

115. Maybe That Will No Longer Be Tolerated Now

He 's not a DEm, as he tells us all the time.

[smirkymonkey]

93. What?!

I would like to know what he calls it then. Bernie has spent too much time in lily-white Vermont. He doesn't seem to understand that the demographics of the country are much more diverse than those of his own state.

Kind of reminds me of that Neo-Confederate SNL Skit w/ Adam Driver...

[Gothmog]

118. SNL nailed Vermont in that skit

[uponit7771]

163. +1, I would love to know how folk in Vermont took this skit !!

[dalton99a]

97. In other words, it's ok to vote for their opponents in this election who are racist as fuck.

[NurseJackie]

105. It certainly would be a shame if he's forced to resign. Vermont has a Republican governor...

... who'll probably appoint a Republican replacement (if it comes to that.) Or would the seat remain vacant until a special election is called?

[Takket]

106. Not voting for someone due to their race instead of their policy

Is literally what racism is

[Justice4JFK]

108. 2020 Election

Hopefully Bernie will stay away in 2020.

[Gothmog]

110. I hope that bernie does not run in 2020

Bernie will get the less support from African American and other elements of the party base than he did last time.

It would be nice to see all of sanders tax returns and to see sanders have to formerly join the party and agree to run as a Democrat in order to get onto the ballot

[dalton99a]

153. +1. And it would be nice to see a little support for Russian sanctions

[Cuthbert Allgood]

238. I voted for Sander is my primary and I hope he doesn't run either.

We need someone younger, of color, and a woman. Or at least two of the three.

[MarvinGardens]

117. OMG.

An unbelievable statement. He should be finished, politically.

[Hekate]

119. Or misogynist, just because they--what? Oh Bernie, Bernie, Bernie...

[GulfCoast66]

121. Liberals need to remember that economic progressivism has nothing to do with race

Historically progressives were just as likely to be racist as not. Because historically it was another name for economic nationalism.
Mind I said historically and not saying Bernie racist at all. But biased on this quote he certainly has a different definition of racist than most Liberals I know.

Regardless, way, way too many liberals, thinking ‘liberal’ sounded lame jumped on the title progressive without taking even a minute to study the 100+ year often sordid history of the movement.

We would do best to proudly reclaim the proud title of liberal and leave progressive to its past.

And all liberals should agree that if someone votes against a candidate because they are of color, that person is, by definition, racist. Can’t believe there are those on DU even debating it.

[JHan]

123. Yes! +++++++++

[Skidmore]

125. Bernie's "fine people, on both sides" moment.

I can't even consider him for any office by now.

[NurseJackie]

131. Excellent and very apt comparison.

Bernie's "fine people, on both sides" moment.

Excellent and very apt comparison.

I can't even consider him for any office by now.

I do not believe you'll have to. It's likely that this moment will not only punctuate his career, but will disqualify him from ever being able to have any realistic chance at seeking higher office.

All I'm saying is that after something like this, it's unclear to me how anyone can respect him or take him seriously. No matter what apology or walk-back follows... something like this isn't easily forgiven, nor is it quickly forgotten. This kind of "political baggage" is a millstone that will weigh-down any future campaigns with devastating consequences.

[onetexan]

126. WTH???

OK Bernie, you've just openned your mouth and inserted your foot. Best to keep that trap shut. Now you're bordering on being a bigot yourself.

BTW how about the millions of WHITE AMERICANS who voted for Obama - both terms!! Ask THEM if they felt uncomfortable voting for an African-American man who was one of the best presidents we've had in modern times.

[Wintryjade]

132. whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American

Sanders specifically called out not wanting to vote AA. I want to know why he thinks people "this time" had a problem voting for a black candidate? Why does he see all of a sudden, that this time, people questioned voting for a POC?

He ought to clearly express to us why he feels that is not a racist statement and why he gives an out to the person that does not vote for a candidate because of the color of their skin. Other than racism, what would be the reason?

[arthritisR_US]

134. This says more about him than the racists he's apologizing for.

[peggysue2]

136. O.M.G.

Well, Bernie just stuck a fork in his 2020 aspirations. Really, Senator Sanders? You're going to make excuses for people feeling 'awkward or uncomfortable' with voting for a person of color? How about those that feel similarly about AA's moving into their neighborhood or working at their company or sitting beside their children at school???

You cannot put a bright shiny bow on a rotting fish and call it anything but what it is: a rotting fish.

What a stupid, ignorant thing to say.

Might explain, however, why Senator Sanders did so poorly with the AA community during the 2016 primaries. I suspect this tweet won't help those numbers.

Unbelievable!

[Wintryjade]

144. All 19 Black Women Running for Judge in a Texas Race Won Last Night

Not to mention, being wrong that a POC can't win a race.

[peggysue2]

145. I read that the other night.

What a huge success! And a strong counterargument to Sanders' stupid comment.

[Gothmog]

149. A large number of non-white candidates won in my county

We have a new African American District Attorney and a number of African American and Asian judges win

[Wintryjade]

164. Texas did great. We have two muslim women, Native American. We did terrific.

Feels like gaslighting. Telling us something other than fact. Creating a different story. A demand that is not there. Not for our party, anyway.

[sheshe2]

229. I saw that.

Molly Ivans and Ann Richards are cheering from the great beyond. You all are turning blue, Wintryjade. Keep up the good work.

[Wintryjade]

231. Mmmm, I am in a very blue state that I just love. Went all blue, amendments and all.

But I agree. I think the Texas youth just really rocked it this election. They are getting loud. I like what I hear.

[sheshe2]

139. Yes.

They are.

[disillusioned73]

142. I see the 2020 hit pieces have gotten an early jump on things..

Link to tweet

Nice touch with the 2016 tweet too.. good work

[Tavarious Jackson]

148. This is spin,

He said the above but also said, “I think you know there are a lot of white folks out there who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American,”

[disillusioned73]

158. If you listen to that audio...

there is a link right there in that tweet.. you get the full context of the cherry picked quotes

[link:https://soundcloud.com/user-551024902/daily-beast-interview|

[Tavarious Jackson]

166. I did. I listened to the whole thing

He said he thinks there are a lot of white folks who are not necessarily racist but could not vote for an African American.

[obamanut2012]

213. FAKE NEWS

Unless you can prove the audio is fake, he said: “I think you know there are a lot of white folks out there who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American."

[disillusioned73]

275. "FAKE NEWS".... You sound like the trumpster..

if you don't understand context and listen to the whole audio I can't help you.. his wording wasn't great, but there is a campaign of cherry picking which is quite easy to point out here...

[EffieBlack]

143. Hey, Bernie - Reluctance to vote for someone because of their race is the DEFINITION OF RACISM

But you got arrested in a civil rights protest once 50+ years ago, so I guess you know better, right?

[Gothmog]

150. You are correct in your analysis

I really hope sanders does not try to run in 2020

[NastyRiffraff]

147. Like Maya Angelou said

"

When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.

Link to tweet

[helpisontheway]

151. So glad I did not support him. Danny Glover where are you now? Nt

[Stare Decisis]

152. I am done making excuses about racists and

their racism. No kid gloves, no patience, no "you gotta understands."

Done. I will not negotiate with bigots my only goal is to defeat them.

[loyalsister]

154. Define racist

Racism, white fragility, white people can't catch a break, "reverse racism".... White supremacy.

It's not unique to Bernie. I got it wrong and many, if not most, white progressives got it wrong, even Obama got it wrong. I recall him mentioning his grandmother's fear of black men in a speech.

I hope we will someday finally stop conflating racism and white supremacy. Millions of Obama 2008 voters use their votes as a defense because they see racism as a behavior then interpret it as a personal insult when someone points out examples of oppression.

Exploiting oppressive attitudes for personal gain or to prove a point is itself an act of white supremacy. Until we finally admit that putting the blame on individual bad actors rather than looking at ourselves we will get nowhere in anti-racist work.

His comments reflect a defense of white supremacy. So does the idea that racism is malicious thoughts and behaviors. So does using examples of individual behaviors to locate oppression and absolve ourselves of long standing disinterest in thoroughly examining our roles and that of people we admire.
Are we ever going to take a closer look at white supremacy as a system we have been defending even as we oppose oppressive attitudes and behaviors or continue to blame individual bad actors for all of it?

These incidents invite us to go beyond outrage and look in the mirror. The book White Fragility is a starting point for for anyone who is interested.

[jcgoldie]

155. Ugh

Isn't that pretty much the definition of racism? Bernie has this one wrong.

[andym]

156. Is it true that some white people are uncomfortable voting for African Americans?

Certainly. The next question is how many are conscious of it, and how many are not? The conscious ones are overt racists and for the most part irredeemable (although George Wallace post-shooting is a counterexample), the unconscious ones are bigoted without knowing it, or knowing it only subconsciously. Of this latter group, the key question arises how many would change their votes and more importantly their perspective, if a mirror were held up to them revealing the truth? Hopefully the answer is some. Then how can they be made aware that they are not perceiving and acting fairly? That is the key. Not everyone can be changed but it is important for America's future that as many people act as unprejudiced as is humanly possible. Obviously, subconscious bigotry has negative effects socially that go beyond elections and helps to degrade the civility that is required to maintain the USA.

[njhoneybadger]

161. WTF Bernie, why even say shit like that

[DFW]

162. So what DOES he call people like that if not racist?

Pigment averse?

[DinahMoeHum]

165. ". . .first time in their lives. . ." ???. Excuse me, Bernie, but. . .

. . .I didn't notice Barack Obama was white.

If Bernie wants the help of the Democrats, then he should actually join the Democratic Party and shed the "Independent" BS label for permanently.

Otherwise the Democrats damn well better not allow Bernie into the party after this remark.

If he wants to run, let him do it as an Independent. No more glomming on to the Democratic Party for his supporting cast.

[Spider Jerusalem]

167. So I guess that someone who's uncomfortable voting for a Jew isn't necessarily an anti-Semite?

Except they clearly are! This whole "we can't call out racists on their racism" thing is getting tired. (It's not just Sanders doing it, either, it's a lot of other supposed "liberals": see for instance all the nonsense about "identity politics are bad" and "we need to reach out to the white working class&quot .

[NurseJackie]

195. Nailed it! (And you're not alone in your observations.)

So I guess that someone who's uncomfortable voting for a Jew isn't necessarily an anti-Semite?

In a way, I'm also reminded of the bakery owners who refused to make a wedding cake for a gay couple... they claimed they wern't homophobic or bigoted against homosexuals... only that they didn't support gay-marriage and refused to serve the gay couple. (It's all so clear! See the difference?)

Except they clearly are! This whole "we can't call out racists on their racism" thing is getting tired.

If this doesn't turn out to be a career ending moment for him... he has at the very least disqualified himself from whatever aspirations he may still have for holding higher office.

[redstatebluegirl]

168. Not surprised, he has always seemed uncomfortable with people of color.

[Yavin4]

169. Bye bye Bernie for the 2000 Dem nomination.

Your candidacy for the Dem nomination is effectively over.

[Blue_Tires]

172. No hate, no snark, just a serious question:

Bernie Sanders has been on the *national* stage for three solid years now... Why does he remain so inept when it comes to winning PoC (aside from the college kids) over to his side?? Why does he still have chronic Foot-in-Mouth disease when discussing race? (Remember, this isn't the first offense from him and the people in his advisory circle). Why is he so obsessed with coddling Trump voters, as if they will somehow magically not be racist anymore and vote straight Dem if only the old toaster oven factory could came back to Iowa Falls? Why have no lessons been learned whatsoever??

Sanders has pretty much had the stage all to himself for TWO YEARS as a presumptive, likely-to-run candidate for 2020 and even with the universal public belief that he'd crush Trump (who has only gotten less popular) head-to-head, why does it feel like he's regressing instead of in the ascendancy?? Who the hell is advising him?



(And I voted for Sanders in the VA primary, so skip it...)

[kstewart33]

176. I don't believe he can beat Trump.

There is so much in Bernie's past that Trump will twist and lie about. Bernie is easy pickings. And he's simply too old.

[emulatorloo]

184. 2016 Sanders supporter as well. To put it charitably, he's a gaffe machine

[Blue_Tires]

188. Gaffes can be covered up with a strong strategy and competent campaign staff

And I'd been saying since late 2015 that those freaks and nutjobs in his inner circle would contribute more to his defeat than anything from Hillary's camp. I mean, FFS... They literally believed they could *completely* concede the south and the AA vote to Hillary without a fight, thinking the college kids and the women were all they needed...

[emulatorloo]

191. Agreed, Jeff Weaver was a disaster in 2016

Hot-headed binary-thinking ideologue who did absolutely NOTHING to broaden Bernie’s coalition. All he did was shovel rancid bloody meat into the mouths of people who already supported Bernie.

[betsuni]

220. He does believe that the swing state Trump voters will magically not be racist when they hear

his economic message, in my opinion. They will hear his powerful economic message, the scales will fall from their eyes and they will know that it is all class struggle, they will vote for the true progressive. I firmly believe this is The Plan.

[ecstatic]

225. He's in his 70s. You can't teach an old dog new tricks.

These beliefs are deeply embedded in his psyche. Remember when he gave his true opinion of the horrors of being an African American at one of the debates back in 2015 or 2016?

I can't help but think that he's projecting when he defends people who are "too uncomfortable to vote for an African American" but super comfortable voting for dump and his minions. Maybe he's voicing his beliefs. At least one of his sons is deplorable--how did that happen? JMO.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

233. "Why does he remain so inept when it comes to winning PoC (aside from the college kids) over to his

side?? Why does he still have chronic Foot-in-Mouth disease when discussing race?"

Because he doesn't think he has to.

[Charlotte Little]

182. I really hate this man

White people being uncomfortable voting for black people is the very definition of racism. I'm sure someone else has pointed that out already in this thread, but I still had to comment.

Fuck Bernie Sanders.

[NurseJackie]

189. ...

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

185. Seriously Bernie?

You're making a damn fool of yourself.

[Gothmog]

186. I was a delegate to the national convention

The Clinton campaign had a whipping infrastructure in place and my whip was great on keeping me informed. The Clinton campaign warned her delegates that the Sanders delegates were going to protest and boo Congressman John Lewis 20 to 30 minutes before he was due to come onto the stage. This was planned event by the sanders delegates and according to my whip sanders was asked to stop it and declined.

Incidents like this will come up if sanders runs in 2020.

[NurseJackie]

190. Things like that reveal much about someone's character.

sanders was asked to stop it and declined.

Things like that reveal much about someone's character.

Incidents like this will come up if sanders runs in 2020.

Yes... and taken together, they all begin to form a picture that's not very flattering and not as easy to dismiss or explain-away. All I'm saying here is that this is a BIG mistake that serves as an attention-getting exclamation point... to punctuate all that has come before... and as a result, it looks as though he may have disqualified himself from being a serious contender for higher office. Honestly, I'm beginning to wonder if he'll end up resigning as Senator.

[Gothmog]

192. Due to ballot access laws and new DNC rules, I doubt that sanders would run

To get onto the ballot, sanders would have to release five to ten years of full tax returns and then formerly join the party and agree to run as a member of the party. I really doubt that sanders will agree to do either step.

sanders would not have fun if he ran and would not survive a full vetting by the press

[greatauntoftriplets]

187. WTF???

It's good that he didn't stay in Chicago and excuse anyone who was too chicken to vote for Harold Washington in 1983 or 1987.

[Solly Mack]

193. Those "feelings" of discomfort? That's your inner white supremacist bubbling up.

[BeckyDem]

194. Sanders' spokesman insists those remarks were taken out of context

Bernie Sanders Clarifies Comments About Racism Hurting Black Candidates

November 8, 20184:35 PM ET
https://www.npr.org/2018/11/08/665809570/bernie-sanders-clarifies-comments-about-racism-hurting-black-candidates

[LAS14]

230. I found this difficult to follow. Can someone point me to the telling quote? nt

[MrScorpio]

196. Really, Bernie?

Link to tweet

[obamanut2012]

200. No, Sanders, they are 100% racist

And, people who felt the same way about voting for a woman are misogynistic pigs.

JFC he just needs to either retire or educate himself on race matters.

[Freethinker65]

201. Pretty sure if the only reason they did not vote for the better candidate was skin color IS racist

[SidDithers]

202. This seems like a good thread to bookmark...nt

Sid

[NurseJackie]

204. Excellent advice.

[nolabear]

203. Are these some of the fine people on both sides?

No, I don’t equate him and Spanky, but Spanky can use it to defend his own views. Bad, bad move.

[NurseJackie]

209. Things like this reveal much about someone's character. Personally...

Are these some of the fine people on both sides?

Things like this reveal much about someone's character. Personally, it looks to me like he's stepped in an ankle-deep steaming pile of it, and I'm just not seeing a graceful way for him to easily clean up and come out smelling like roses. Things like this have been career-ending moments for other politicians. Will it be the same for Sanders?

All I'm trying to say here is that one thing I'm fairly confident about is that something like this will disqualify him from seeking higher office. Taken as a whole with other "gaffes" and "missteps" and "misstatements" and "inarticulate" moments... it's my belief that people aren't likely to be as forgiving.

[LexVegas]

218. Some of us saw through him a long time ago. nt

[OilemFirchen]

219. This reminds of the period when apologists tried to insert "racialist" into the lexicon.

Some people aren't racist, they said, they're racialists... suggesting that there's an in-between rationale for not-quite-racist-and-perfectly-understandable passive behavior. Similarly, they suggested that "discrimination" isn't bad, because we all are discriminating - as if the two words have the same meaning.

Of course, there is such a thing as racialism, but this rationalization was an hilarious attempt to decontextualize the actual definition of the word.

I think that the best summation of that embarrassing minor epoch comes from Wikipedia:

Racialism is the belief that the human species is naturally divided into races, that are ostensibly distinct biological categories. Most dictionaries define the term racialism as synonymous with racism.

[FreeRunning]

221. bernie is the bomb

but i have no idea how to process something like this...

[Snotcicles]

223. He is talking about people getting over their racism and voting for an African American for the

first time and how it will be easier the next time.

[SubjectTrip]

242. You can process it...

by actually listening to the audio interview and the comment in context, instead of Daily Caller's BS clickbait lede.

[nini]

246. Start by admitting he's really not 'the bomb'

You've been played..

When someone shows you who they are... believe them. he just showed us all. Though many of us already figured him out.

[betsuni]

222. Oh, Bernie.

[NurseJackie]

297. It just keeps happening, and people keep defending and excusing it. Sad.

It's indefensible. It's inexcusable. In my opinion, this PERMANENTLY DISQUALIFIES him from ever holding higher office. And based on the backlash, I'm wondering if he'll be forced into some sort of early retirement over this. It wouldn't surprise me at all.

[SubjectTrip]

239. Really cool to see that out of context Daily Caller gotcha/clickbait journalism is welcome here

I'll just leave this here

Link to tweet

[George II]

245. Where's Killer Mike when he need him?

[JCanete]

248. Outrageous! Doesn't he understand that the best way to win future elections for dems is to

call people who don't understand the depths of systematic racism and the way that they themselves are products of it, or their mommies and daddies and brothers and sisters and neighbors and loved ones, etc... racists? Then they'll listen! Then they'll see!


Oh I know, we should just write off 45 percent of America and do everything we can to alienate them. That's how all previous movements made progress..by getting the particularly reactionary people to retreat into their own bubbles and echo chambers. Sadly, it continues to fall on us to be the adults in the room. It isn't fair just how disenfranchised so many of our citizens are due to this kind of entrenched racism, but saying they were uncivil first isn't going to get us anywhere. Aim high when we call out racism. Tie it to a divide-and-conquer strategy. Make those at the top of the GOP ticket the racists. If we paint them all into the same corner, how do you expect them to distance themselves?

So no, Sanders is not trying to woo racists. He's trying to reach people so that we can have a conversation. Do you have a better real solution?

[JHan]

250. It's really incredible the defending of this..

Pointing out that he acknowledged Gillum faced racism in the campaign doesn't change what he said...

It's really astonishing the wispy threading of spin going on here: I am still trying to figure this one out - what could be a legitimate reason, other than racism, that would make a white person uncomfortable voting for a black candidate .

[sprinkleeninow]

251. Racist or not. Either one or the other. Getting 'over' racism is news to me.

[JHan]

252. yup +

[JCanete]

254. yeah, but would would make that same person hear anythihng you say beyond accusing them of being

lowdown racists? Better, in my opinion, to point up to the way racism is used to divide and fool people into supporting the GOP, and to allow those voters enough space that they can distance themselves from their own previous thinking, rather than to do our best to hang it around their necks. If they had nowhere to go, maybe shaming would work, but we're just helping them to dig that ravine if we aren't careful. We're giving them an ego-driven survival need to justify themselves and their thinking. I say call out the racists with the biggest megaphones all day, and when possible, tie them to the money. Make the question the controllers of the message. Almost nobody responds well to being accused of something, and too many of these people do not believe themselves to be racists. Trying to get them to see that fact isn't exactly deprogramming 101. Some groundwork has to be done there.


Yeah, I think its pandering to these voters, but isn't doing so at the cost of ignoring issues of racism Its doing so with the purpose of talking about issues of systemic racism. Maybe get people to see that before they see their own role in it, because I've got a feeling the other way isn't going to yield promising results.

I could be wrong on this. What's your take?

[JHan]

255. "better , in my opinion, to point up to the racism is used to divide and fool people"

Okay, one way to deal with this is to stop assuming people are being duped.

There is this baseline belief in the innocence of people with deplorable/racist views which has to be trounced. People are out there knowingly and willingly voting and supported divisive shit, this is the history of America from inception. For over 100 years immigration fear-mongering and race-baiting have been staples in the political toolbox. There are *awful* people out there supporting *awful* shit. Rationalizing this, excusing them, making excuses for them is NOT how you deal with this... how many conversations have there been in these forums about racism, where black people have to keep repeating ourselves about how fucked up this shit is?

I am TIRED of it all ( and my frustration isn't towards you ) just in general.

Dems made healthcare a priority in the election: what did many of these fucking deplorable halfwits hear? some shit about a Caravan. I am not in the mood today for excuse making. We have a problem, and it's not people who look like me or people like stacy abrams campaigning in a certain way.

[betsuni]

256. +1

[George II]

284. What bothers me is a person who most likely has never been in a position to vote...

...for an African-American interpreting the thoughts of others who are in such a position, i.e., "you know there are a lot of white folks out there who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American."

How would he know? Why does he feel the need to tell people how THEY feel, and not even speculatively - "...you know there are a lot of white folks....."?

[JCanete]

289. That doesn't bother me. It is speculation that does absolutely give people who voted for racist

reasons in the past, an out...an alternative way of framing their own ignorance in a less evil, less hate-filled light, which you may argue is allowing people to skirt responsibility, and I wouldn't at all deny that, but it also allows people to admit on some level that race played a factor in their decision, without them having to accept the full-blown weight of being horrible human beings. That gets them closer to reality than expecting them to have a major come-to-jesus when that whole process is painful, and when they have a massive enabling support group that will tell them they're okay and they don't have to listen to librals who call them racists.

Plus, he's not speculating off the chain anyway. He goes around the country and talks to these people. I'm sure he has his finger on the pulse of at least some of them.

[George II]

298. "He talks to these people"? He flies in, gives a speech, and either flies out or goes to his hotel.

Very simply, I certainly think it's out of place for someone to lecture people about something they do that he's never done in his life.

Ever hear the expression "walk a mile in my shoes"?

Now if, after he finished college, he had moved back to the neighborhood that he grew up in (which was a run down, poor, mixed race/religion/background neighborhood) and worked with the people there instead of moving to the least diverse state in the union at the time, he'd have more life experience to come off as an authority on why people vote one way or another. Brooklyn in the 1960s would have been a perfect place for him to learn about people, not a state that at the that time was 99% white.

Once again, if he was ever in a position to vote for an African American he would have more credibility on this issue.

[NurseJackie]

285. Nicely done!

Rationalizing this, excusing them, making excuses for them is NOT how you deal with this... how many conversations have there been in these forums about racism, where black people have to keep repeating ourselves about how fucked up this shit is?

Nicely done! Perfect! (Schooled!!!)

[Wintryjade]

286. They elected a dead pimp.

[JHan]

287. Imagine that.. Ridiculous.

[JCanete]

290. There is a baseline humanist belief that people want to think of themselves as good...that they want

Last edited Sat Nov 10, 2018, 05:53 AM - Edit history (1)

to be accepted, generally by their family and peer group...and that they ultimately want to be accepted by themselves according to their own standards of decency. That is a far cry from some sort of universal "goodness," obviously, since people are quite capable of justifying atrocious acts if they can simply strip the goodness or even the humanity from the people whom they are doing great harm to.

But the point is, unless these people are sociopaths, their failure to extend their empathy is a cultural one. I'm guessing you don't believe that selfishness or evil falls solely to some genetic lineage, and yet so many people voting red are in the same regional pockets. Are they truly all evil by nature? Are they evil by culture?

Is there such a thing as evil by culture? Are people taught to be capital E evil, or are they taught from a young age, what is "good", Who is good, or at the very least, who it is acceptable to like and who it is acceptable to hate, and to debase? And do you really believe that this hasn't been a top-down condition in these states and localities? The pervasive racist narratives would have changed long ago if they weren't lucrative to perpetuate. But getting poor dumb white people to kick down rather than to look up has continued to be an astonishingly valuable tool of control, even while they themselves get sold out to mountain-top removal and the opioid trade, shrinking welfare and stolen pensions, etc.

And yeah, they continue to believe what they believe because its easy. Because for them, its socially safer than not. And because they have been given no compelling reason to question their own beliefs from outside of their bubble. Calling them racists to their face, or calling their parents and loved ones racists, isn't the way that will actually challenge them to see the humanity in those that they clearly fail to see it in. Especially since all of their stress and anxiety has been successfully pinned on immigration and changing ethnic and cultural demographics, and a mythological version of who the criminals are, or why society is crumbling....etc. Propaganda works. Tying it all to religions works.

They have been duped. It literally hurts them to continue to believe the lies they've been weened on, so why do they persist? Either because they don't see how they are voting against their own best interests, or because they are so firmly convinced of who the bad guys are(out of sheer misinformation and ignorance) that they will vote according to their indoctrinated morals. Either way, how did that happen?

So what we need to do to fight that is to give them a selfish reason to stop hurting themselves, but that alone is certainly not enough. We also need to tie what they believe to those who are selling them the snake oil. It really nearly always is about the money. Make their beliefs a product, not of their own shittiness, but of the propaganda machine that has so thoroughly conned them.

And all the while, We can challenge their assumptions without challenging their intended decency. We need them to expand their narrow parameters of empathy, which takes them hearing us in the first place.



All of that said, (and I'm sorry that went on and on), I get that what Sanders is selling here is degrees removed from the cold hard truth. I think its the training wheels version, and I think its necessary for a certain audience that needs to start with those training wheels. That said, I can understand it being alienating to those who suffer most from racism and who see this as coddling and apologizing for racists. Sure, its doing both those things, but in an effort to talk to those people, to pierce that fucking bubble. Not in an effort to pretend like these people are saints with legitimate racist/yet not ideology that we just need to hear. It is instead an effort to actually chip away at their core assumptions.

[JHan]

293. what is voting against their self interests, who are you tell them what they are?

This is patronizing stuff.

"Voting against their self-interest" has nothing to do with it because People vote based on their values.

Their values may conflict with what is actually better for them but their values are their own. Am I going to sing a song for why they're so fucked up ? Fuck no. Don't ask me to, maybe as a white person you can influence them but when I tell you I am fucking fed up of these conversations don't ask me to explain more. I don't relate to people with the sort of brain that got scared by a "caravan" which has apparently disappeared off the face of the earth now.

And they're "hurting" ? where? You forget the average income of many Trump voters out there, a bunch of them are reactionaries living in surburbia - You can cry tears for them if you want and I won't join you.

And what about people who hurt who aren't this fucking stupid? Where are their voices? Once again, as we CONSTANTLY have to do, we must pander and coddle stupid racist people. It's the same fucking story generation after generation.

No I am not interested - trust and believe - in some long conversation about the conflicted motivations of racists and people who demonized a "caravan" of immigrants. I am not interested in weaving through the thorny moral distinctions residing within white Republican voters and parse through their cognitive dissonance. The fucking fact is the only reason a person would be uncomfortable voting for an African American candidate is racism. Because their assessment of said candidate is RACE based. How the fuck does this need explaining in 2 thousand and fucking 18?

[JCanete]

294. okay. I'll just say that why they are so fucked up matters, because the fact that they are fucked

up affects us all, and people of color to an exponentially greater degree. We can't fix it if we don't understand it. We can't attempt to intervene if we can't find the language to talk to these people. Whether or not the brunt of the effort falls unfairly on the wrong shoulders is all, unfortunately, the reality we live in.

My point will never be that we need to be sympathetic to these people, but I'll believe that they can simply be outpopulated out of power when I see it...as if bigotry can't be bred across different demographics given the right financial incentive to divide. I just don't think we're ever going to be successful simply fighting the product rather than the manufacturer of that product. And I think we need to fight the manufacturer by turning that product against it.

If you have a strategy that you think could actually yield long-term results that doesn't involve having to engage with these people, or their future replacements, I'm down to hear it. I admit I'm dubious, but this is really the crux of the thing. What will work. What will save us from these people.

[JHan]

295. Let me ask you a simple ass question:

is not voting for someone because of their race make you a racist or not? You out here trying to defend a statement.. you can feel sorry for racists all you like, want to feel to defend Bernie messing up in an interview ( that's your right too)

I already HAVE to deal with racists, *I* already have coping mechanisms trying to understand, workaround, see the "better side" of people who are antagonistic towards people brown like me - that is the lived experience of many black people ...

The point of this fucking post is to establish some fucking sense: this parsing of racism where out and out racism , or KKK grandstanding, is the only type of racism there is , is why we end up with shit statements made ..this selective viewing of race and discrimination is astonishing ignorance, as if people have LEARNED NOTHING. In fact, I refuse to believe it could really be rank stupidity and not actually something else- like political aspirations? - at play here. "Someone doesn't have to be racist to be uncomfortable to vote for a black person" - UHM yes they are. I am not going to argue how obviously wrong this is because it is not a point worth debate. It's like telling me the earth is flat, when it isn't.

Since 2016 , black democrats and people of color have been telling people like yourself that Racism was a a factor. We got hit with all kinds of bullshit equivocations: from "economic anxiety" to a ton of other lies -

Remember this: Dems were up and down America talking about HEALTHCARE. HEALTH CARE and wages and the economy and infrastructure. Many of these Republican voters heard some shit about a caravan and it excited them. Did you see the ads run in Swing Districts ? The difference between republican attack ads and democratic ads were a real study! Repubs gloriously ran on being assholes with Trump's blessing. I am not in the mood for some progressive Senator from Vermont or ANYONE calling themselves allies to Democrats or liberals to be creating farcical excuses for this fucking bullshit.

[JCanete]

299. Yes, it is. I've said so previously, but I'll leave this post to simply acknowledge that. nt

[brer cat]

296. +++

Why do we have to continually have this conversation? There is no excuse for coddling racists. period.

[dawg day]

279. How about Sanders talking to them not about how they're not really racists--

and just saying, "That Gillum candidate cares about our healthcare and safety?"

No need to try to excuse their racism (or discomfort or whatever) or to sympathize with them above all. What's good for me and you is good for them too. If they want decent health insurance and education, they're going to have to vote for the candidates who work for those things.

If they want to feel more "comfortable" expressing their 'discomfort" with more than half the population (you know they're also "uncomfortable" with women candidates), they can turn to the GOP, because making people feel better about being racist is their main platform.

We really don't need to coddle the "white uncomfortable" so much, especially when they seem weirdly comfortable with Trump and his policy of taking children from their parents and shipping them across the country for no reason except meanness.

Somehow the "discomfort" of a 6-year old 2000 miles from her mother seems more important than some white voter who just can't "yet" bring himself to vote for a non-white, but, you know, might someday come around if we let him vote for Trump another few times.

[EffieBlack]

270. I know, right?

[still_one]

312. It has echos of what happened here a while back when some referred to Hillary with the "c" word,

and how they were so anxious to defend the use of that usage with such lame excuses, such as, it is commonly used it the UK so its usage is "ok".

When a person doesn't want to vote for someone because they are black, means they don't want to vote for someone because they are black.

I would argue that to rationalize or make excuses justifying that statement, is at best "insensitive", and at worst, legitimizes racism

Perhaps this explains why some were so upset when Hillary referred to some trump supporters as deplorable because they supported the views of a racist, sexist, bigot.

That speaks volumes

[JHan]

313. "it is commonly used it the UK so its usage is "ok". WTF

[still_one]

314. I believe that argument may have initially from Nadin if memory serves me, but there were

disgustingly quite a few folks more than willingly to agree.

[Quayblue]

253. Racism is racism. Nt

[Le Gaucher]

258. He is really clueless .. He stepped in it BIG TIME

[gollygee]

267. White America is very good at redefining racism in various ways that exempt themselves

and exempt most white Americans.

It might take some work but we are relentless at finding ways to excuse ourselves.

If you are uncomfortable voting for people of color because they are people of color, you are by definition racist.

[NurseJackie]

272. ... and there you have it! That's an excellent and appropriate analysis and summary.

...very good at redefining racism in various ways that exempt themselves...

... and there you have it! That's an excellent and appropriate analysis and summary. Thank you.

[Maven]

273. This. nt

[Cha]

288. Thank You, gollygee!

[MineralMan]

276. Sit down, Bernie.

[NurseJackie]

302. Yes, please.

[liberalmuse]

277. Oh yes they are.

I respect a lot of things Bernie has done over the years, but can see why some of his supporters ended up voting for Trump. It is indeed racist if you can’t vote for a highly qualified candidate because of their skin color or ethnicity.

[NoMoreRepugs]

278. Please stop Bernie.... just be a Senator.

[dameatball]

303. Am I post 300??

[dameatball]

304. Crap!!

Missed it by this much.

[Marcuse]

306. Bernie is channeling Impotus: "There are good people on both sides."

[Gothmog]

311. It seems that some of sanders progressives were the margin of victory for DeSantis

A decent number of sanders base of progressives evidently could not vote for a true progressive like Gillum and instead voted for some indie candidates. These votes appears to be DeDantis margin of victory

Link to tweet