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Mon Oct 29, 2018, 07:21 AM

Make them unacceptable.

I used to smoke. I don't smoke now.

It gradually became very hard to smoke. Smokers were given their own "jails" to practice their "nasty" habit. They had to stand outside in freezing weather, looking like fools, practicing their terrible vice, exposing their weakness for the world to see. Non-smokers would berate you for the way you smelled. Every time you coughed, people would remind you of your use of "cancer sticks". These days, when you see someone smoking in public, it is no longer the norm, and it may cause you to do a double take.

We, as progressives, need to realize that there are a lot of us. It may not seem that way sometimes, because even though the right accuses us of spreading hatred, we know the way it actually is. Also, I feel that progressives in general do not tend to puke up their political leanings in public every chance they get, like the radical right does.

Seeing that there are so many of us, we have a quiet power. We need to summon up our courage and use this power.

Someone makes a racist comment as a joke? Tell them to shut the fuck up. Ask them what their problem is.

Someone praises Trump? Give them the side-eye and say "really"?

Someone brags incessantly about their guns and how they are not afraid to use them against the libs when the time comes? Tell them you are sorry about their penis.

Humiliate them.

Make them unacceptable. Do it hard, and do it often.

You will lose friends and family, but do it anyway.

Because when Trump is gone, they will still be here.

You won't change their minds, but you will drive them back into the shadows. Make them the dregs of humanity.

Make them like cigarette smokers.

45 replies, 5357 views

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Arrow 45 replies Author Time Post
Reply Make them unacceptable. (Original post)
LuckyCharms Oct 2018 OP
Tumbulu Oct 2018 #1
oberliner Oct 2018 #2
LuckyCharms Oct 2018 #3
oberliner Oct 2018 #10
Cirque du So-What Oct 2018 #5
ck4829 Oct 2018 #8
oberliner Oct 2018 #11
watoos Oct 2018 #14
oberliner Oct 2018 #15
LanternWaste Oct 2018 #41
oberliner Oct 2018 #43
uponit7771 Oct 2018 #22
KY_EnviroGuy Oct 2018 #25
ck4829 Oct 2018 #28
KY_EnviroGuy Oct 2018 #32
ismnotwasm Oct 2018 #31
brer cat Oct 2018 #33
Ohioboy Oct 2018 #4
jcmaine72 Oct 2018 #6
Squinch Oct 2018 #7
ck4829 Oct 2018 #9
violetpastille Oct 2018 #12
lunatica Oct 2018 #21
watoos Oct 2018 #13
KY_EnviroGuy Oct 2018 #27
magicarpet Oct 2018 #16
safeinOhio Oct 2018 #17
watoos Oct 2018 #20
safeinOhio Oct 2018 #30
llmart Oct 2018 #18
dalton99a Oct 2018 #19
LittleGirl Oct 2018 #23
Harker Oct 2018 #24
Baltimike Oct 2018 #26
Johnny2X2X Oct 2018 #29
KY_EnviroGuy Oct 2018 #34
flotsam Oct 2018 #35
jcmaine72 Oct 2018 #36
flotsam Oct 2018 #37
LuckyCharms Oct 2018 #38
flotsam Oct 2018 #39
LuckyCharms Oct 2018 #42
Squinch Oct 2018 #44
Duppers Oct 2018 #40
MadDAsHell Oct 2018 #45

Response to LuckyCharms (Original post)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 07:24 AM

1. Excellent- I could not agree more!

They have become so emboldened because so many of us are too nice to confront them.

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Response to LuckyCharms (Original post)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 07:29 AM

2. This is the opposite of what we should do

 

I support being kind to everyone and politely engaging those with whom we disagree when the opportunity arises. Hearts and minds have been changed - many have turned away from hate. There are former white supremacists who travel the country promoting peace and encouraging haters to change.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #2)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 07:30 AM

3. Good luck with that.

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Response to LuckyCharms (Reply #3)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 08:19 AM

10. I've reached a handful of folks that way

 

Not many, though.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #2)


Response to oberliner (Reply #2)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 08:12 AM

8. "Disagreement" is what you have over the color of blinds or what movie your group should see

Ultra right wingers saying you shouldn't exist, racists scapegoating a group they don't like, bizarre conspiracy theories obsessed with pedophilia and pizza, or conservatives saying that if you do X, they will do not-X just to spite you is not a "disagreement"

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Response to ck4829 (Reply #8)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 08:20 AM

11. Some of the worst white supremacists, neo-nazis, and hate mongers have changed and repented

 

It is always heartening to see that happen.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #11)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 08:58 AM

14. Maybe I will get to see some of them too?

 

I just got that dropless eye surgery so maybe my vision will now see them?

My guess, just a guess, is that since Trump became president more of those neo-Nazis have come out of the closet, just a guess that since Trump became president more people have joined neo-Nazi groups than those who have repented.

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Response to watoos (Reply #14)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 09:03 AM

15. A Former Neo-Nazi Explains Why Hate Drew Him In -- And How He Got Out

 

Christian Picciolini was 14 years old when he attended the first gathering of what would become the Hammerskin Nation, a violent, white-power skinhead group. Looking back, he describes his introduction to the group as receiving a "lifeline of acceptance."

"I felt a sort of energy flow through me that I had never felt before — as if I was a part of something greater than myself," he says.

Picciolini embraced the white supremacist message he heard that day and went on to front a white-power punk band, White American Youth, writing and performing songs that inspired others to commit racist acts of violence.

But after eight years as a neo-Nazi, Picciolini began to question the hateful ideology he espoused. He remembers a specific incident in which he was beating a young black man. His eyes locked with his victim, and he felt a surprising empathy.

It was a turning point. He withdrew from the movement and in 2011 co-founded Life After Hate, a nonprofit that counsels members of hate groups and helps them disengage.

https://www.npr.org/2018/01/18/578745514/a-former-neo-nazi-explains-why-hate-drew-him-in-and-how-he-got-out

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Response to oberliner (Reply #11)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 04:12 PM

41. While yet others shoot up synagogues.

It's heartening to pretend we know which is which, thus indicating a delusional thought-process at work...

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #41)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 04:25 PM

43. Exactly

 

Thank you for sharing that.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #2)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 09:39 AM

22. You can be kind and still make what they do unacceptable at the same time

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Response to oberliner (Reply #2)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 09:52 AM

25. Many of us are not good at confrontation and....

your way is the best for us. Not withstanding unusual situations, that's the way I was raised so therefore it's the most natural for me. Helps to keep my BP down as well.

Some experts say that rash confrontation is exactly what extremists want from us, in that it allows them to label us and place us in a little box for show to their followers and friends. And, most of them do not really listen to rational discussion.

Like many things in society, it may well take both types - some hard-asses and some compassionate ones as well....

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Response to KY_EnviroGuy (Reply #25)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 09:59 AM

28. And it's also a spectrum...

There is a long line between confrontation and "oh we're just having a disagreement over the fact that I have the audacity to think that my life matters more than a confederate statue"

Ask questions.
Make them explain their rhetoric.
Just say "that's ridiculous" and move on.
Say if someone's behaving this way, then you can't associate with them

It's sad that we've reached a point where not accommodating racism and bigotry is seen the same as rash confrontation. And I think that's on us, not them.

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Response to ck4829 (Reply #28)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 10:26 AM

32. Yes, I can engage them in a calm, rational discussion but....

most that I know start conversations with inflammatory talking points, for which one would need a wheelbarrow load of documents and several hours of discourse to disprove. So, they are conditioned to start of with an immediate offensive advantage - before even saying "hello".

For those types (ie, most Repugs) the best response is simply telling them what they said is a lie, which instantly places them on the defensive. Even though they try to deflect or change to another bullshit point, I force them back to the original lie and will not let it go. At my advanced age, I have to keep things simple, LOL.

I do get your point though, that if they are civil it's best to ask them to explain both their sources and the philosophy behind what they say. Many would be embarrassed as their evil foundations are exposed to sunlight, particularly with racism.

If I feel overwhelmed, I just simply say "bullshit" and go my way.......

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Response to oberliner (Reply #2)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 10:24 AM

31. I was raised by racists, I know racists.

They are quite unreachable except on rare occasions. What we are seeing didn’t suddenly appear—it’s been there all along. It’s not new. It hasn’t gotten “worse”, although acts of violence certainly have. And it’s far more pervasive that you seem to understand.

The majority of white people go along to get along at some point; the passive aggressive jokes, the occasional racial epithets, the distasteful person in a checkout line loudly talking about “those people” We haven’t learned to call out the small racists, much less the large ones. Yes we have people of color who are friends, spouses, children, that doesn’t make our experiences their experiences. That doesn’t necessarily make us brave.

Racism needs to be unacceptable, vile, repugnant—it need to be seen and felt as the horror it is. You couldn’t “reach out” to my brother in law--he’d laugh in your face but he has learned to keep his mouth shut around ME, as does his family. Because I do NOT ACCEPT racist bullshit in my life.

I think white people are starting to wake up; as Will Smith said, “Racism is not getting worse, it’s getting filmed” I like to think we are becoming braver in calling out racism, talking about it when we don’t have to, putting examples it on social media, more of us joining the anti-racist movement rather than staying safe in white spaces.

Being buddies with white supremacists is not particularly effective although you may have skill with reaching those people. I don’t know

Speaking up and speaking our against racism IS effective. We will never eradicate it, but we can damn sure clean the bigotry from ourselves and make racism completely unacceptable

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #31)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 10:53 AM

33. +++

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Response to LuckyCharms (Original post)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 07:32 AM

4. I remember when the new indoor smoking laws were being initiated

A lot of the talking heads told us it was going to kill business for bars and restaurants. Quite the opposite has taken place, in my opinion. Were I live those businesses are thriving, and no one is complaining about not being able to blow their smoke around.

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Response to LuckyCharms (Original post)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 08:04 AM

6. I absolutely agree!

Every last one of them needs to be publicly ostracized and sent packing to the periphery, scorned and mocked every step of the way. There must never be room in any decent society for xenophobic racists and homophobes (i.e. Trumpites). We WILL win. They are NOT acceptable. There are far more of us than them.

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Response to LuckyCharms (Original post)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 08:11 AM

7. Exactly. And the smoking example is a good one. We became pariahs

for smoking and we stopped.

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Response to LuckyCharms (Original post)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 08:13 AM

9. K&R

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Response to LuckyCharms (Original post)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 08:41 AM

12. Where I live, they already are like cig smokers.

They still DO it. You can smell it on them.

But they do it secretly.

Not sure if this is an improvement?

We will see after mid-terms, I guess...

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Response to violetpastille (Reply #12)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 09:37 AM

21. Second hand smoke is deadly

So if they smoke in secret then they aren’t giving non smokers lung cancer.

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Response to LuckyCharms (Original post)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 08:53 AM

13. Excellent post, I could not agree more.

 

I live among them in Central Pa. and I have started doing as your post suggests. When I ask them why they hate Democrats their go to answer is that they are lazy freeloaders who live off of hard working Republican tax dollars. I told them there are just as many if not more Republicans who are lazy freeloaders. I told them that blue states pay more in to the government than they get from the government while red states get more back than they pay in. I told them that I see plenty of able bodied-looking people buying food with stamps and seeing as we live in a 4 to 1 Republican area I assume they are Republicans. I then asked them if they agreed with Trump giving soybean farmers billions of dollars in subsidies because his tariffs hurt them. They looked at each other and had no choice but to answer, no.

The time for civility is over. We certainly don't want to be or act like Trumpers but enough is enough before it is too late.

As Avenatti says Make America America Again.

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Response to watoos (Reply #13)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 09:58 AM

27. Asked...."if they agreed with Trump giving soybean farmers billions of dollars in subsidies",

if they answer "yes", then ask them why they don't support pure Republican free market philosophy!.....

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Response to LuckyCharms (Original post)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 09:06 AM

16. Nazi recruitment on college campuses with a congregation of young men...

... looking to sow their macho man, alpha male oats, are prime grounds for Fascist enlistment drives.

We have to come up with a way to counter balance the Nazi love-fest that is happening with young men on college campuses or the next generation will be deeply polluted by this wave of Nazi bullshit.

The deeper these Nazis become entrenched in society the harder our battle will be to push back. Common sense will not dictate and rule the day, we can not sit back and hope corrective action will come by osmosis. Direct efforts will become necessary to push these Nazis back under their rocks.


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Response to LuckyCharms (Original post)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 09:27 AM

17. I live in a semi red area and I like to

drop, just a couple of words on them. Lady was telling me how great trump is and all I said was "he sure likes to toot his own horn". For some reason that shut her up and had her walking away. A guy was going on and on about Hillary when I told him crooked Hillary released 40 years of tax return and he won't give us any. That shut him up.
A long heated discussion never seems to work. Just a smile and a few words seem to work best for me.
I go to a little local auction here and when I first got here the auctioneer would drop little Hillary comments. Now he jokes about the orange guy. I think we can pick em off one at a time. Just need to make em think they are like smokers.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #17)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 09:36 AM

20. Yes Yes Yes

 

Trumpers understand short sound bites, reasoning with them does absolutely no good.

One Trumper bragged to me about voting for Trump and I said, after I watched the video of Trump looking at a 10 year old girl with sexual thoughts and saying that he would be dating her in 10 years, that was enough to turn me off of Trump. I can't vote for a pervert.

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Response to watoos (Reply #20)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 10:13 AM

30. A few more

He hates dogs.
Why doesn't he take Baron out on the golf course with him, never seen a picture of him and Baron doing anything together.
For America first, he like foreign women 2 to 1 over American women when it comes to marriage.
Said Mexico will pay for the wall, how come we have to now that he is elected?
How come he doesn't hold news conferences like other President always have?
He has donated more money to the Clintons than anyone.
If elected, he wouldn't have time to play golf. So far he has played way more golf than Obama.

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Response to LuckyCharms (Original post)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 09:29 AM

18. I absolutely agree with your post.

I will not stay silent in the face of fascism. I will also not make nicey-nice with any of them. I will not allow them into my world because my world has no room for hatred and negativity and anger.

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Response to LuckyCharms (Original post)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 09:33 AM

19. Expose them for identification.

If you want to act like a racist asshole on camera, prepare to be identified by the public.

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Response to LuckyCharms (Original post)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 09:47 AM

23. As a former smoker

I completely agree with you. I've done the same. Thanks!

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Response to LuckyCharms (Original post)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 09:52 AM

24. Second hand Trumpsky

will be as lethal as smoke for many.

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Response to LuckyCharms (Original post)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 09:52 AM

26. YAS!!!! Shame and ridicule.

I am fluent in redneck. I know this.

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Response to LuckyCharms (Original post)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 10:03 AM

29. How can we come together?

I am more disheartened than ever about the divisions in this country. I have made some attempts to reach out to the other side and the window into their reality is just devastating.

Specifically I work with some far right wing guys. 2 of which I went to lunch with on Friday. Really good family men and overall good people with good hearts. They are totally brain washed. And I will defend each of their characters. These are both smart and good people. Both are Aerospace Engineers, both have served in the military, both are very respected colleagues and experts in their field. Both are capable of critical thinking. But both showed me they are so angry that it's nearly impossible to reach them. It's victim hood, in their world they have been brainwashed for 30 years into thinking that white Christian men are the victims and the deck is stacked against them.

They will not respond to reason, it's emotion for them, but they are sure they are being reasonable and logical. I'll keep trying, but it's not going to get anywhere. They have alternative facts for every possible topic.

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #29)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 10:55 AM

34. I think you have asked the million dollar question.

We first have to determine what it takes to get through to those like your associates who are intelligent and possess rational capability. Those who are poorly educated or just need a daddy figure may be a lost cause.

I admire your efforts and it may be that planting little non-confrontational strategic seeds of doubt that would force them into re-thinking some of their fears and beliefs could be a useful tactic.

It's very unfortunate that good people like those allow themselves to be controlled by a bubble mentality, where it's almost a sin to escape.

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Response to LuckyCharms (Original post)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 12:44 PM

35. Hmmm...

"Humiliate them.

Make them unacceptable. Do it hard, and do it often.

You will lose friends and family, but do it anyway.

Because when Trump is gone, they will still be here.

You won't change their minds, but you will drive them back into the shadows. Make them the dregs of humanity.

Make them like cigarette smokers."

If you replaced the term smoker to any other addicted group I wonder if the post would be greeted so warmly? "Opioid addicts should be humiliated-They are the dregs of humanity!".

Doesn't read very well does it?

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Response to flotsam (Reply #35)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 01:42 PM

36. Apples and oranges. We're not talking about people stricken with the disease of addiction.

We're talking about TrumpNazis. They have a made the conscious decision to embrace and promote hate. There should be no place for them in any decent society. They deserve no voice and must be mocked, shunned and marginalized wherever they are found.

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Response to jcmaine72 (Reply #36)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 01:46 PM

37. The post outright states

that smokers are the dregs of humanity and SHOULD be humiliated. Nicotine is addictive. And the post is odious.

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Response to flotsam (Reply #37)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 02:33 PM

38. I didn't say that I believe smokers are the dregs of humanity.

I was one, after all.

But they are now perceived as dregs due to a concentrated effort to change the perception of smoking.

But you knew that, didn't you.

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Response to LuckyCharms (Reply #38)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 03:13 PM

39. I like most your posts

I just find the comparison shitty.

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Response to flotsam (Reply #39)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 04:23 PM

42. Ok, thank you. I have no problem with smokers now, and

I felt the brunt of society turning us into pariahs. That was my point.

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Response to flotsam (Reply #35)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 05:15 PM

44. What are you talking about? That has nothing to do with anything that

the OP said.

It's like saying, "Instead of saying, 'humiliate them,' substitute 'dismember them.' Doesn't read very well, does it?"

Well, no, it doesn't. But the post says "humiliate them."

The OP said cigarette smokers were humiliated and ostracized while they smoked. You are saying the OP should not say that because opioid addiction?

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Response to LuckyCharms (Original post)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 04:07 PM

40. Remember when Geo. Wallace voters were mocked?

Even among middle-of-the-road southerners. You had to be a hard-assed racist to support him

What happened to that country?

Fucking Fox and Limballs.

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Response to LuckyCharms (Original post)

Mon Oct 29, 2018, 10:24 PM

45. Actually, we just need to get the political power back, and then ban all opposition parties. nt

 

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