Kirsten Gillibrand should be the LAST person we want to run for president

[mtnsnake]

for more than few reasons.

She's been all over the map on gun control. Before she became a senator, she was elected to the House to represent her upstate NY district, and she got elected there partly because of her very conservative pro gun rights positions. Back then she had a very good rating from the NRA. I think it was an A. She only changed her views when she ran for Senator of NY because she knew her previous conservative views concerning gun control, or lack of gun control I should say, would not have gone over very well state wide. Yes, her NRA rating plummeted after that, but who knows what her views about guns would become if she were to run for president.

She was the first Democratic senator to call for Al Franken's resignation. Pathetic. That really cost us.

She said Bill Clinton should have resigned from the presidency. That was even more pathetic. To say something like that in retrospect of the event was shameful, not just because it was about such a fine Democratic president, and not just because it was so many years after it happened, but because she said it after taking so much money and endorsements from the Clintons for so many years. How on earth could she say something like that about the man whose wife she inherited the NYS Senatorial seat from, especially after all that Bill and Hillary did for her?

If Kirsten doesn't know who she really is, then how the hell do we know who she is? We don't.

It seems to me like Kirsten Gillibrand will say and do whatever it takes to get elected to office. There are plenty of much better choices than her. That's for sure. We've got people like Kamala, Elizabeth, Joe, Cory, you name it, all who know who they are and what they stand for, unlike the political chameleon, Kirsten Gillibrand.

[jodymarie aimee]

1. a million percent agree

ever read her book,,,,she whines about coworkers making fun of her for being fat...

[brooklynite]

2. I see...just like Barack Obama was "all over the map" on marriage equality?

When he changed his position,how could we really know if he'd keep it?

[mtnsnake]

3. Comparing Gillibrand to Obama is ridiculous. nt

[mahina]

103. This.

[Hortensis]

10. No. Gillibrand's conservative. She moved left

to be able to win office in a liberal state, and I like to believe that some of her social positions are late-enlightened but sincere, she is a woman after all, but I do wonder what she'd support if her state was mostly red, like Maine farther north. I don't trust her to protect liberal democracy from the right.

That said, I just broke my new resolution, which is to not bother with what are going to be thousands of posts about 2020 candidates who never turn out to be real contenders.

The exception is Sanders since I will never forgive him for Trump, for gathering but failing to properly lead a populist faction together on the left which potentially could merge with right-wing populists, for thinking my vote should be set aside, for being willing to dance with Republicans and Russia if it benefits him, and of course because he's the one "independent" in addition to hundreds of Republicans on a list of politicians I know I can't trust to protect liberal democracy, if for different reasons. .

But try, try again.

WaPo: Trump administration weighs new family-separation effort at border

Link to tweet

[CentralMass]

22. Sanders did not give us tRump. Voter suppression, voter apathy and the Comey factor did.

Depending on which study you look at, 92% or 88% of Sanders voters voted for Hillary in the General. The numbers (by one of the same polling groups) found that in 2008 only 76% of Hillary voters voted for Senator Obama.

Voter turnout was abysmal. tRump won an electoral college win with only 26% of eligible voters having voted for him. Hillary while winning the popular vote received 6 million fewer votes then President Obama did in 2012 and 10 million fewer then he did in 2008.

[Trumpocalypse]

25. Good points

Don't forget the media giving Trump billions of free TV time and obsessing Clinton's emails when they all knew use of personal email by government officials was commonplace in DC.

[Separation]

118. I hope this doesnt get me an alert or whatever,

Bu the fact that Bernie wasnt running for president made a lot of voters apathetic about the whole election.

[TwistOneUp]

122. And let us not forget

Comey is a rethuglican.

[JonLP24]

50. To me

That is better than starting off as a liberal then moving to the right to win office.

[Hortensis]

63. Jon, I'm thinking personality is genetically linked and

then environmentally influenced. Environment is very strong, but the genetic disposition is always there. Although a Democrat might move Republican and vice versa for expediency, and people do change their positions over time and circumstance, liberals don't just become conservative or vice versa. It's far more basic than just politics.

I'm sure, though, among our candidates will be committed liberals committed to the ideals of the Enlightenment, including equality of all men, that our nation was founded on. With dangerous people on the right trying to erase all that, this would be no time to put someone in the presidency who, in her gut, agreed with them at all.

Not that I think she'll be a genuine contender, her early record's too well known and later not impressive comparatively.

[unitedwethrive]

108. We knew because he came to areas like SF and talked directly to LGBT groups at small house parties

when he was running in 2008. Just like the Clinton/Gore years, messages were conveyed without the glare of the media for us to pass around to our own group...the same 'wink and a nod' on the issues as the repubs do with abortion rights or guns. When running with a non-homogeneous electorate, it is the smart thing to try and stay centered and pick your battles.

Remember, these are very different times, even than 10 years ago. It is no longer political suicide to openly support gay marriage or LGBTQ rights...but in 2008 and before, it could end an otherwise promising campaign. LGBT people knew that in order to get equality, we had to "sneak" allies into positions of power. (A game the repubs have been playing for years.)

[Zambero]

4. Not a strong candidate. Never will be.

For all the reasons stated above. Comes across as flat and contrived. And fanning the flames of irrationality during the Al Franken flap was not helpful to her chances, or character for that matter. Kindly add Amy to the aforementioned list of serious candidates.

[PatSeg]

132. "flat and contrived"

You nailed it. That describes her perfectly.

I agree about Amy.

[BeyondGeography]

5. Sounds like an agile politician to me

Democrats who are still afraid in the #MeToo era to criticize Bill Clinton’s behavior in the White House would make even worse candidates.

[LakeArenal]

26. Clinton's was consensual. Initiated by Lewisnski.

Not to mention the whataboutism.

Not to mention it was a hundred years ago.
Not even this milenium.

[BeyondGeography]

34. Like whatabout Trump?

[LakeArenal]

41. If you like. I was referring to modern politicians whatabouting

a thirty-five year old what about.

What about Kennedy, FDR, Ike?

Past history. We are living now. Clinton issue was resolved decades ago. Resolved. Whether the outcome was to anyone’s satisfaction or not.

[BeyondGeography]

44. Lol

Ok. I guess that’s why the only headline coming out of HRC’s CBS interview yesterday was all about that “Clinton issue.”

[LakeArenal]

51. Didn't say I didn't think that was ridiculous

And a ridiculous response

But I don’t know why they have to keep hammering Hillary about her husband’s behavior that hurt her then and hurts her now.

Once again she’s been dragged through this in every serious interview with her for 35 years.

The media hype is just that.

[BeyondGeography]

64. And now we're in a time where all Democrats get asked about it

At least the high-profile ones who want to become President. How do you minimize the world’s most powerful man having sex with an intern on the one hand and hold people accountable to current standards of acceptable behavior? How are Democrats any better on issues of sexual misconduct if they keep giving Bill Clinton a pass? Gillibrand saw this coming and got out in front of it. She’s not my top choice for 2020 but she did get this one right.

[LakeArenal]

67. Obviously we disagree. But you continue to come at me.

We aren’t going to agree so leave me alone now. I listened to you. I disagree. Now leave me alone.

[Trumpocalypse]

123. I have ever right to disagree with you

and point out the facts.

[JHan]

80. The #MeToo movement is about sexual assault.

Not consensual tawdry affairs.

Unless you're suggesting that Bill Clinton forced Monica Lewinsky.

It's bad ethical practice to sleep with co-workers, especially subordinates, but where is the evidence that Bill Clinton "abused his power as an official" to get Monica to sleep with him?

[BeyondGeography]

82. Do we as Democrats really want to keep charging that hill?

Because then we have to not only defend tawdriness (at best) we also have to have an answer for all the other incidents. And where we wind up is continually taking the side of a powerful man against little people, embracing feminism for the privileged if we aren’t careful (and we haven’t been). And then wonder why so many white women are deplorable.

The clue train is calling. This is loserville. Give Gillibrand credit for at least knowing that.

[JHan]

83. I'm not defending tawdriness..

I'm being specific.

1) we cannot claim we want due process for allegations and then scoff at the conclusions of due process when they actually occur - like they did w.r.t Clinton.

2) OF COURSE, it matters that it was consensual. Consent is critical to MeToo. If I point that out it doesn't mean I thought the affair was acceptable or right. I pointed out it was unethical.

3) "Take the side of the powerful man against the little people" - The powerful people in the context of the Lewinsky scandal were Ken Starr and the FBI. The problems for Monica arose not as a result of the affair itself, but the aftermath of the affair becoming public. where she became a punchline and joke for comedians and columnists.

4) I do care about the facts and details of the case. And I won't twist those facts to suit a narrative. The truth is far more interesting than spun narratives.

As for Gillibrand, I've been defending her over the past hour LOL.

[BeyondGeography]

85. So she was smart to move on from the Clintons?

[JHan]

86. Politicians will do whatever they want when it suits them:

My defense of her has to do with her being singled out re Franken, and she's welcome to think Bill should have resigned. She isn't the first liberal to suggest that- as much as I disagree.

What's done is done.

[rzemanfl]

6. K&R. n/t

[lark]

7. Excellent synopsis of her.

You put out all the reasons I would never vote for her in a primary or donate any $$ to her. She's shameless in her self-promotion and doesn't care who she stabs in the back or what the actual facts are. She is not trustworthy one bit. There are many more qualified Dems than her who I would be 100% behind, Biden and Warren being good choices in my book..

[Trumpocalypse]

17. I heard the same criticisms of Hillary Clinton

Why is it ok if a man is ambitious but not a woman?

[PatSeg]

37. There is a difference between

being ambitious and being dishonest and inauthentic. We have so many good choices this time, we can do better than Gillibrand.

[Trumpocalypse]

46. Clinton was called dishonest and inauthentic too.

And what proof do you have that either has been. Please provide links that support your accusation.

[PatSeg]

119. I think there is plenty of evidence

to be found in this thread. To elaborate on that evidence, just try Google.

[Trumpocalypse]

125. You're making the claims

the burden of proof is on you. Please provide links.

[lark]

93. Backstabbing the Clintons for no reason but to burnish her creds is unforgiveable.

It is not OK for men or women to do this, no free passes for being a backstabber for anyone.

[Trumpocalypse]

95. She was asked a question

What should she have said?

[lark]

96. While I don't approve of all of President Clinton's actions, he was a good president overall.

Why couldn't she say that? No, she made the conscious choice to say he should have been impeached, stabbing her mentor in the back for self-serving reasons.

[Trumpocalypse]

97. No She was asked if he should have resigned.

She would have looked like a hypocrite if she had said no.

[lark]

99. Politicians dodge the question all the damn time and answer as they please.

She could have answered just as I said but again chose to backstab her mentor proving that she is a backstabber.

[Trumpocalypse]

102. Look at what is happening today to Hillary Clinton

The same would have happened to Gillibrand. She was damned however she answered the question. Plus neither Clinton was ever her mentor.

[lark]

94. Really, I never once heard Hillary called a backstabber.

What did she do that was supposedly a backstabbing, fact free act like Gillibrand did?

[Autumn]

8. I agree with all of the points you raised.

[Squinch]

9. Don't fall for the trollery. Trolls use Gillibrand to try to

sow discord among us.

Right now, she doesn't matter at all. All that matters is November.

[tenderfoot]

14. the trolls are also setting up others to bash Gillibrant

not that she doesn't deserve it but that's their game.

[Kingofalldems]

90. Got that right.

She's not the issue.

[FSogol]

15. +1 Exactly. The trolls are trying to wind us up. The proper time to discuss 2020 is after the

midterms.

[Andy823]

52. I totally agree

Seems like we have an "infestation" of trolls lately.

[Squinch]

92. Not to mention some of our long term trolls who think they're slick.

[Andy823]

128. Yeah

I guess since that "other" site is going out of business, they have more time to troll over there! They may think they are slick, but they are not!

[rogue emissary]

60. +1

[violetpastille]

72. I'm seeing what you're saying.

[47of74]

11. 10 trillion percent agree

Mainly because of how she railroaded Franken.

[Trumpocalypse]

18. Yes she put a gun to his head

and forced him to resign. Forget about the other 38 senators that called for Franken to resign.

[tonedevil]

43. Why must you deny her...

what is due. Senator Gillibrand worked very hard to be the face of the Senator Franken must go club. Now you want to pretend she was just one of the members after she took an active leadership position.

[Trumpocalypse]

48. No she didn't

She was made the face by the press because it was her signature issue. And became the focus of all the Franken cultists. But she was one of 38 senators in an effort that was coordinated by Schumer.

[dmr]

121. Cultists? Really?

That is insulting.

[Trumpocalypse]

124. Didn't mean to insult

But when people ignore the facts and start claiming one Senator was better than all the others, it’s a cult.

[lovemydogs]

12. Not a fan of hers. We do have so many potential candidates that are better

[Gore1FL]

13. She is not close to my first choice.

As always, I would support her in a GE if she was the nominee. I doubt that will happen, however, for the reasons you provided.

[lovemydogs]

16. Way up on my list is Kamala Harris.

[Trumpocalypse]

19. Who also called for Franken to resign.

Why does she get a pass on that?

[mtnsnake]

32. Gillibrand got it all started. She was the FIRST Democratic senator to call for Al's resignation

which put undue pressure upon all our other senators.

[Trumpocalypse]

42. And the other Senators followed the same morning

some within minutes. If you really think that Gillibrand started it, then she must be a pretty powerful and influential Senator. The truth is she has never had that kind of power. She may have been the first but the person that was pulling the strings was Schumer. Thinking any else is just naive.

[tammywammy]

77. The senators had been discussing it for days

That day they talked and decided Kristen would go first and the rest would follow. Which is why so many requests for his resignation came quickly.

She was part of a group that decided she would go first.


https://www-m.cnn.com/2017/12/06/politics/senators-al-franken-resignation/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.democraticunderground.com%2F100210945150

[Celerity]

131. Great post.

It really puts a clearer view on things and takes away a lot of the 'Gillibrand as antichrist leader' ammo.

At the end of the day, every single Democratic Senator except the members on the Ethics Committee (who could not make public statements), Menendez from NJ (under federal corruption indictment at that time) and Joe Manchin (who was the only one to say Franken shouldn't resign) told him to resign, either in public, or in private.

Gillibrand is not my first choice for 2020, but I would fully and enthusiastically support her if she won the nomination. She also is the ONLY Senator to vote against every single one of Trump's nominees for the Cabinet and other posts.

I do not fault her for Franken going down. As your link shows there were many others involved as well, including the Minority leadership. There are many cases where a Senator takes a stance on a controversial issue and most of their fellow party or caucus members do not act or support them. She doesn't have that kind of power to sway almost all other Democratic Senators, and she came out only a few minutes before many others did. It was obviously coordinated by many other Senators as well.

I am far more worried about the upcoming 2018 elections than I am about flogging this particular dead horse.

[Rhiannon12866]

139. Thanks for the background, I always wondered since it made little sense to me.

And it's Kirsten, she was my congresswoman (NY-20), elected in 2006 - and we were delighted with her since she managed to unseat a Republican incumbent who the paper was saying "could have the job for life if he wanted it." And I credit much of her win to a visit from President Clinton who came to the district to campaign for her...

[seta1950]

33. Mine too

Sen. Kamala Harris is the best choice she’s impressive.

[LakeArenal]

61. Why then dislike Gilli. Harris was on that same list.

Charter member if the Franken Railroad.

[BannonsLiver]

100. Because nobody did it more enthusiastically than Kirsten

That’s what the gillibrand fan club will never get with their whataboutism. KG did it first, and with the most enthusiasm. She got out in front of it faster and more cynically than anyone else. That’s why she gets so heavily criticized. People saw right through her “concerns” to 2020 and the price for that is any shot she had at 2020.

[LakeArenal]

112. They are all on my list equally:Schumer, Booker, Gillibrand, Harris, et al. They all make 2020 noise

Al Franken stood in the way off all of them.

[Trumpocalypse]

135. How do you gauge enthusiasm

Of a Facebook post?

[Renew Deal]

20. She's no more all over the map on guns than Bernie Sanders

Then again, he lost.

Most non-political people agree with Gillibrand's stand on Franken is correct and consistent with her politics.

Most Democrats think that an executive having a sexual relationship in the office with an intern is immoral, unethical, and unprofessional.

Her positions on Franken and Clinton are consistent with her positions on issues in the workplace.

Your point about saying anything to get into office isn't consistent with everything else you wrote. Are her positions on Franken and Clinton popular Democratic positions that will help her in a primary? Probably not, so it doesn't make sense to say that she will say anything to get into office.

[getagrip_already]

30. Bernie isn't all over the map - he supports gun rights

always has, always will.

He is the last person we need running. Trump will get another 8 years if bernie is the parties choice.

[brush]

45. Come on. If her position on Clinton was so consistent why did she take money and...

endorsements from the Clintons for years?

Ambition and poor judgment is not a good combination. It cost us an effective senator from Minnesota, who just happened to be a possible rival for her in 2020.

[Rhiannon12866]

117. You're correct on her relationship with the Clintons

She was elected as congresswoman from my district (NY-20) with help and support from both Clinton's. Hillary Clinton advised her to skip 2004 and run in 2006, which she did. And I have no doubt that the personal appearance by President Clinton at the beginning of her campaign in this traditionally Republican district made a huge difference in her win over a long time Republican incumbent. It was a big event here in this small burg and there was SRO just to see and hear him. I was there and he sure charmed the crowd, he definitely has charisma and it was quite a thrill to see a former POTUS in person! That's why it baffles me that she has said he should have been removed from office.

[kimbutgar]

21. I'll never forgive her because of Al Franken

[Bradshaw3]

23. For President, we need a leader guided by principles

not political opportunism. The op describes her career perfectly. Leading the charge against Franken was just another step on the ladder. Ambition is one thing, expediency is another.

[True Blue American]

29. You daid it!

If anyone would get my vote it would be Warren, but honestly I want one of our remarkable younger Democrats. There are dozens.

[True Blue American]

24. She loved the Clinton's

Until she went after Franken. I do know we are not supposed to say anything about Democrats, but she would never get my vote.

[Texin]

27. I agree on many levels.

She appears to "represent" what she determines to be politically expedient. I'm in full agreement WRT Senator Franken. I was appalled that she jumped the gun on demanding his resignation before an investigation could be undertaken and completed. That said, I think she's had to thread the needle, so to speak, regarding gun control. Upstate New York is about as red as the state of Texas. It doesn't reflect the much more liberal areas in the metropolitan and college communities. So running in such a conservative area undoubtedly muted a more full-throated criticism of guns. But, I agree. She's been cagey about her personal stance on the issues surrounding gun control and licensing requirements. Overall, though, I just don't think she'd be a strong contender. I'd like to believe that there are women who could run successfully in today's political climate, but I just can't think of any them that I would bet would be successful. My favorite of all those frequently mentioned is Kamala Harris. But in the freighted and poisoned tRumpland we find ourselves in now, I just don't know any woman I would pit against Shitler and his rabidly white male-aggrieved supporters and their co-dependent molls.

[seta1950]

28. Yes

I totally agree,I don’t trust her at all.

[empedocles]

31. Most likely to win general Presidential election, is a good criteria

[not a primary type winner]

[BlancheSplanchnik]

35. What she did to Al, without benefit of any investigation, should be criminal.

Only we can bring the consequences for her doing that, with our vote.

She jumped on the newly minted #metoo movement and ran afoul with it jumping on the bandwagon in the worst possible way. 🤬👎🏾 A stain on due process, real victims of real sexual violence, and on feminism.

[brooklynite]

58. Asking someone to step down should be criminal?

[BlancheSplanchnik]

105. Alleging something and getting fellow party members to demand resignation without any evidence

Amid highly questionable accusations is wrong. It should be criminal.

[brooklynite]

109. "Lock Her UP!"

[BlancheSplanchnik]

115. Ooooo Kaaaaayyyyyy

[LakeArenal]

36. After she railroaded Franken who asked for an ethics investigation,

She made a huge deal about due process, victims had the right to it. Not her victim Franken, only due process for those not standing in the way of her ambition.

[NCjack]

38. We need a prez with executive experience.

Attorney, Former Mayor of Baltimoreand Governor of Maryland: Martin O'Malley. Enough playing around with politicians who don't know anything about running government.

[George II]

39. She would not be my first choice as our nominee - there are so many more qualified than her....

....(as you list in your last paragraph)

I think she forgets how she first got into the Senate - she was appointed by Governor David Paterson (who became governor after Elliot Spitzer resigned) to replace Hillary Clinton when she became Secretary of State.

[TheCowsCameHome]

40. Democrats can do better. Much better.

I am confident that they will.

[Eyeball_Kid]

47. Heavens! Where are the DU censors on this thread??

I thought that “speaking ill of Democratic Party leadership” was a big no-no in this forum. Look at all of the discussion!

Is it possible that my remark here will, oddly, be subject to censure?

But the broader question is the role that moderators take in shaping the range of topics and writing behavior of members, and how wide the grey areas are between what’s acceptable and what isn’t. It’s quite the continuing dilemma.

Specifically, is criticism of Gillibrand acceptable?

[mtnsnake]

62. You're joking, right?

If fair criticism of future presidential hopefuls wasn't allowed on this forum, such as criticizing Gillibrand for railroading fellow Democratic Senator Al Franken out of office (She was the first Democratic senator to call for his resignation) or saying Bill Clinton should have resigned over the Lewinsky affair or her conservative views, past and present, then there would BE no forum.

Have you ever been around here during the Primaries?

[rusty fender]

91. I agree

This is major Democratic bashing. Has no one alerted?

[Rhiannon12866]

120. We no longer have moderators on DU

Back in the day (DU.2) moderators could lock threads that went out of control, now we have juries that can vote on hiding individual posts that violate the ToS and hosts that can lock threads that violate the SoP for individual forums (see Skinner's explanation at the top of GD), that's it.

[JGug1]

49. Kirsten Gillibrand

I don't completely disagree with your assertion that Gillibrand should not be our candidate but I don't completely agree. If she took a stand that led to the NRA giving her an "A" when she was running in a very conservative district, wasn't she stating that she would represent her constituents? And if she changed her position when she ran for Senate, wasn't she then still supporting her constituency? Her position if she runs, which she probably will do, will likely be similar to Barack Obama's and I don't have a problem with that.
On the other hand, I thought her demanding that Al Franken resign was crap. For GOD'S sake, the case against Franken was small. He should NEVER have resigned in that circumstance. I think it was unseemly of her to jump on him. So, all in all, I agree. We have better choices.
Funny that today, Elizabeth Warren announced that DNA test seems to show that she does, in fact, have Native American blood in her veins. Now, she should demand that Trump pay up. Of course, he won't but what the heck, might as well have some fun with the jerk.

[Tarc]

53. She was right on Franken. On Clinton? Probably,

but it really does us little good to rehash a 20 year-old debate. She was present for the Franken situation, however, and I support his resignation fully.

[Mojo2]

54. No

I would never vote for her because of what she did to Franken, don't want her anywhere near the ticket.

[onetexan]

55. Gillibrand was setting herself up to run for POTUS it seems

With her calling for Al Franken's resignation. I will never trust her again because of that. I also have the same stance with Kamala Harris.

[Fla Dem]

56. Why the need to post a critical commentary on Gllibrand?

As far as I can tell there has been no overt indications she is considering a run. The elections are 2 years away. Why post a divisive opinion when we all should be focused on the mid-terms? Was this just an exercise to rile up DU? What was the point?

[brooklynite]

59. Well, it has been two months since the last one...

[mtnsnake]

68. Maybe you didn't see the "Kirsten Gillibrand for President" thread which started earlier?

That's why.

[Fla Dem]

69. No I didn't, but why start another, just respond to that one.

[Blue_true]

57. You grossly distorted her reason for becoming a gun control advocate.

Her change came before she was chosen for the Senate seat. Instead of bashing her, you should take time to read her explanation for her conversion. A small mass shooting (truly bizarre combination of words, but a modern reality) caused her to think about assault weapons as a mom, from that perspective she grew into a fierce opponent of such guns. She is still ok with people owning hunting rifles as long as they register and secure them.

I noticed that this thread is mostly a Gillibrand bashing fest. I won't weigh it down with logic, facts and reason.

[mtnsnake]

65. Really? How do you explain her A rating from the NRA when she was in the House?

[Blue_true]

70. Reread my post, that may help you.

She was A rated by the NRA, a mass shooting happened, she saw it through the eyes of a mom, she became an opponent of assault weapons - all while still in the House.

[mtnsnake]

71. I read it carefully the first time

but thanks anyway for the offer of help.

[Blue_true]

73. Good enough. I don't have time for emotional tit for tat. nt

[mtnsnake]

74. Same here

[Bluepinky]

66. Agree. I didn't like her treatment of Al Franken.

She showed very poor judgment.

[beachbum bob]

75. at this point who cares? We have bigger fish to fry in coming 22 days to get people off their asses

to vote

[mtnsnake]

76. True. If the other thread hadn't started, the Gillibrand for President one, this one wouldnt have.

I agree the most important thing right now is to get everyone possible to get out and vote for Democrats in 3 weeks.

[Gothmog]

78. Fans of Al Franken have long memories and will not forgive or forget

[LakeArenal]

113. very long memories indeed..

[Amaryllis]

133. Cant help but think how Al would have handled questioning Kavenaugh.

[tblue37]

79. + a brazillion! nt

[Kurt V.]

81. She's a good dem.

too early for me.

[maxrandb]

84. Fuck that noise!!!!!

IF the choice is Gillibrand or Donnie Fungus Dick...I'm crawling through broken glass for 3 miles to vote for her!!!!!!

Did we learn ab-so-fucking-nothing in 2016????

[MaryMagdaline]

129. Apparently not. Still bashing one another

[Turin_C3PO]

87. I would not support her in a primary.

Naturally I would support her in the general election.

[LanternWaste]

88. If she runs and gets the nomination, I'll vote for her.

Other than that, I won't.

But for the time being, my concern is more on next month's elections rather than this secular proselytizing about who or who not is 'anointed,' 'it's their turn,' is a 'messiah,' 'camp weather-vane' or (and this is a new one... did it come from talk radio or Fox news?) a 'chameleon' or any of a hundred other bumper stickers lacking any real meaning or substance other than the lowest common denominators who probably think they're all very, very clever.

[lunamagica]

98. + a million!

[Devil Child]

101. If she becomes the nominee she will have my vote

To not support her candiancy if she becomes the nominee as some have suggested upthread does nothing but support a second term for Trump.

[WeekiWater]

104. She is one of our most solid progressives.

Damn near flanks BS to the left. She is highly intelligent and a solid fighter.

She shouldn't run because she is taking the complete blame for Franken. While it's truly dumb as fuck to put all of the blame on her, it is what many internet folks have done.

Sorry about that Gillibrand. Sit on the sidelines and watch Sanders run for President as not one single person mentions something he did.

“Sen. Franken has said that he will be making an announcement about his political future tomorrow. The right thing is for him to resign. We are now at a crossroads in American culture. And it is an important one. The way we treat women in our country has been abysmal in almost every way. We are finally addressing the issue of sexual harassment, and we need to get it right. But the conversation we are having now is only the tip of the iceberg. It needs to be an ongoing movement of women and men that includes a national discussion about sexism, sexual harassment, objectification, inequality and abuse of power.” Bernie Sanders

Gillibrand would be a great voice in our primaries.

[mtnsnake]

110. Most of our "solid progressives" didn't take anti-immigrations stances like she did in 2009

She opposed any sort of amnesty for illegal immigrants when she was in the House. This NYT article is from 2009, but Gillibrand's right of center stances back then should be worrisome because if she can flip on guns and immigration to get ahead, she can flip again should she become president. Having said that, I would hope everyone here would vote for her, should she run and win in the primaries. Hopefully it will be someone other than her, though.
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/28/us/politics/28immigration.html

[WeekiWater]

111. Yet we hear Biden mentioned every day.

And few Democrats are as fiscally conservative as he has been, historically. Sanders has held flat out isolationist anti-immigration potions, historically.

Those are rarely mentioned.

[vi5]

106. She was a Blue Dog.

Everything else is just additional icing on the "Why I don't care for her" cake.

That's why the Franken thing was little more than the last straw for me, and why I'm not as made about other female Senators/Reps call for him to quit. With someone like Harris or Warren, the Franken thing was simply a one issue disagreement. With Gillibrand it was just another example of her self serving political career (which is saying a lot since most politicians are self-serving).

[oberliner]

114. No one has voted against the Trump agenda more often than Gillibrand

She literally has the highest "anti-Trump" score in the US Senate.

[trueblue2007]

107. i agree. I'd rather see Al Fraken

[jalan48]

116. Her work as an attorney defending big tobacco against Federal lawsuits is all I need to know to

oppose her.

[blue cat]

126. No way, one reason, Franken

[YessirAtsaFact]

127. We would be smart to put this discussion off until November 7

Unless the intent is to sow discord and divide Democrats

[Autumn]

130. I see that time after time. How does discussing who we like or don't like for Pres

sow discord and divide Dems? It's not like lies are being posted about her.

[octoberlib]

134. I can't see Gillibrand ever being our nominee

She’s got a bunch of junk back in the Google Wayback Machine from her days in Congress that any opposition researcher can put out , such as her stance on immigrants which was truly xenophobic and horrific.

[oberliner]

136. People often evolve

I don't think it's fair to dismiss someone based on what opposition researchers might find via Google.

[Buckeyeblue]

137. In general, I'm not a fan of current or former Senators running for president

First, Senators don't do well. Obama and JFK are the exception to that--I don't count Johnson because of the circumstances around his run for president.

I like the idea of a sitting or former governor running. I think they can point to state results as an example of how they will govern. I also like that a governor doesn't spend all their time in Washington.

[USALiberal]

138. I AGREE!!! NT