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Wed Oct 10, 2018, 08:12 PM

With most Republicans I know, it isn't really about religion, healthcare, guns, abortion or politics

or any other ethical or moral issue either, although they like to make everyone think it is.

What it's REALLY about to the Republicans who I'm acquainted with is the few lousy bucks they think they'll be saving come tax time in the Spring. That and making rich people richer.

Somehow, sometime soon, for the sake of this party, Democrats are going to have to come up with a once-and-for-all solution to the age old false perception that Democrats always want to raise taxes on everyone. We really need to address this much better than we have in the past so WE can be winning ALL the important elections.

I'll bet everyone here on this forum knows someone who votes Republican all the time because they think they'll be saving a couple hundred bucks, give or take, come tax time. Fucking idiots.

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Reply With most Republicans I know, it isn't really about religion, healthcare, guns, abortion or politics (Original post)
mtnsnake Oct 10 OP
wasupaloopa Oct 10 #1
hedda_foil Oct 10 #7
wasupaloopa Oct 11 #23
hedda_foil Oct 11 #24
wasupaloopa Oct 11 #25
JustABozoOnThisBus Oct 11 #27
RobinA Oct 11 #19
Turin_C3PO Oct 10 #2
Ohiogal Oct 10 #3
yardwork Oct 10 #4
ThreeGs Oct 10 #5
SMC22307 Oct 10 #6
TexasBushwhacker Oct 11 #14
SMC22307 Oct 11 #31
TexasBushwhacker Oct 11 #32
Awsi Dooger Oct 11 #8
mtnsnake Oct 11 #11
TheFarseer Oct 11 #16
TwistOneUp Oct 11 #21
TheFarseer Oct 11 #22
rownesheck Oct 11 #9
Buckeye_Democrat Oct 11 #10
hostalover Oct 11 #12
TheFarseer Oct 11 #13
Zing Zing Zingbah Oct 11 #15
zentrum Oct 11 #17
hurple Oct 11 #18
Azathoth Oct 11 #20
Wyatt513 Oct 11 #26
SWBTATTReg Oct 11 #29
unblock Oct 11 #28
Mariana Oct 11 #30
uponit7771 Oct 12 #34
Mariana Oct 12 #35
greymattermom Oct 12 #33

Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Wed Oct 10, 2018, 08:16 PM

1. I knew a guy who was liberal in most of his thinking. He told me he votes republican

I asked him why. He said he wants his tax cut.
I think there is nothing we are going to do to change that. We out number them. We can win just by voting.

We just don't bother to vote and that is why we don't win.

Repubs vote and vote for the person with a "R" after their name. We don't vote like that. We have single issues. We have third parties.

We fight with each other.

This coming election we all have to vote and for the person with a "D" after their name or we lose it all!

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 10, 2018, 10:44 PM

7. How much do you think this guy makes? Enough that his tax cut is worth anything?

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Response to hedda_foil (Reply #7)

Thu Oct 11, 2018, 01:25 PM

23. He lived off of his investments. He didn't want

to pay taxes on his gains.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #23)

Thu Oct 11, 2018, 01:26 PM

24. At least he has that excuse. Charming gentleman, isn't he?

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Response to hedda_foil (Reply #24)

Thu Oct 11, 2018, 01:29 PM

25. He was a friend. I don't see him much anymore.

He worked in the movie business in Los Angeles. He got rich and retired early

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #23)

Thu Oct 11, 2018, 01:34 PM

27. He must love the market shifts caused by Trumpian tariffs.

or not.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 11, 2018, 11:55 AM

19. My Family Members

who voted for Trump are the same. It's not about any ideology except taxes, welfare queens of any race, and not having a woman for President. They spout about servers and the Clinton Foundation laundering money and all that yada, yada, but unless you care about Trump's many scams, I'm not believing you care about any of that.

And the answer to the question about the amount of their taxes, NO, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference. They are comfortable middle class. With mortgages and until recently kids, I might add. I probably pay a higher percentage of taxes. I make less money, but I don't have a house or children. Every Trump voter I know thinks they pay taxes so welfare Mom can have the latest iPhone.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Wed Oct 10, 2018, 08:18 PM

2. I know a few like that.

I also know one who votes Republican solely because he’s military and another who votes just on abortion. Single issue voters.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Wed Oct 10, 2018, 08:20 PM

3. Absolutely!

My family members who voted for the dotard all said that..... "he'll lower our taxes!". Most of them all live very comfortable lives, and have plenty of money, but complain all the time about taxes being too high.

The fact that they all hate the same people he hates helped. You know, people of color, gay people, feminists ....

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Wed Oct 10, 2018, 08:21 PM

4. My experience is the same.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Wed Oct 10, 2018, 10:09 PM

5. The basic sects of the GOP

This is where my handle comes from - the three G's of the Republican doctrine. "G"uns, "G"od and .... no, not "G"ays .... "G"reed is always overlooked. And it all is associated with fear of loss. THE DEMS are gonna take away your guns, your bible and your money. Destroy the planet as long as I can keep my AK.
That has been their subliminal (and lately overt) messaging/framing for 30+ years. And it's hard to fight fear. I'm hoping we can divide the G's and cause them to implode.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Wed Oct 10, 2018, 10:15 PM

6. Agree. My middle-of-the-road brother is singing...

Drumpf's praises because he's benefitting from the tax cuts. He's got two kids in college with sky-high tuitions and welcomes whatever break he can get. It's ALWAYS the economy, whether people are struggling or making out like bandits.

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Response to SMC22307 (Reply #6)

Thu Oct 11, 2018, 11:31 AM

14. Of course, if taxes were higher

some of that money could go to state supported universities to bring tuition costs down and to federally subsidized student loans, etc. It's not just about the taxes we pay. It's what we GET for those taxes.

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Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #14)

Thu Oct 11, 2018, 05:55 PM

31. You won't get any argument from me on that.

People don't think big picture, long term, etc.

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Response to SMC22307 (Reply #31)

Thu Oct 11, 2018, 08:22 PM

32. I came from a middle class family

My dad was an accountant working for a university. She was able to go to college when she was 34 because she went to community college fore 2 years and then transferred to a state supported university to finish. She was working as a new elementary teacher when I went to a state supported university in another city. They paid everything for 4 years and I financed the 5th year (I had changed my minor) with a $5K guaranteed student loan at low interest. I graduated in 1981. I worked as a teacher and had a part time job. I paid back the loan in 2 years. I bought a little foreclosure in 1986 for $38K, with a 5% down payment. Of course owning a home means buying things for that home, putting money back into the economy.

Today, with the same parameters, I'm not sure they would have been able to pay for all 4 years of college, which would have meant either living at home the entire time, or taking on debt at considerably higher interest. Not having student loan debt meant I could buy that little house when I was 29. All these things matter. I don't understand why the GOP doesn't get that.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Thu Oct 11, 2018, 12:28 AM

8. Double absolutely

Every simplistic Republican I have ever known defaults to that line first, and nothing will shake their faith in it.

In Las Vegas whenever I told someone I was a Democrat the reaction was always the same, a scoff followed by, "You must love high taxes."

Obama had the best solution, even if unintentionally with that stimulus plan refund. I swear this would work if we just stuck with it. Just promise a check to everyone for $100 or whatever. Hillary could have said that in the debate and suddenly plenty of people would forgive her for the emails.

I've seen the darn thing work locally because the Miami mayor gives my senior citizen Republican aunt a check for $100 every year and she thinks he is the greatest person of all time. She laughs and grins every time the topic comes up. I always think he could take $2000 out of her pocket on the same day he mailed the $100 check and she would still praise him nonstop the ensuing 12 months.

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Response to Awsi Dooger (Reply #8)

Thu Oct 11, 2018, 09:52 AM

11. Excellent! You should post your idea of the $100 thing as a thread.

Or better yet, suggest it to the DNC.

As sad as it is that Republican voters can be bought for a few bucks, maybe it's about time we Democrats start taking advantage of the fact that Republican voters' priorities are located deep within their wallets.

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Response to Awsi Dooger (Reply #8)

Thu Oct 11, 2018, 11:44 AM

16. The argument that drives me crazy

Is “I want tax cuts for the rich so they can afford to give us all jobs”. Besides data not supporting that thesis, it makes no sense. Find me someone that hires people simply because they have the money to do so. People get hired when there is demand for products or services. Better to create demand than supply.

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Response to TheFarseer (Reply #16)

Thu Oct 11, 2018, 12:05 PM

21. They can afford to give us all jobs without a tax cut

They choose not to, so as to get the tax cut. Then after they get the tax cut, few if any jobs result.

You give 'em a foot and they say, No, this is OURs now. The greediest, cheapest people in America. No wonder they like the oligarchs so much - for the GOP, rooskie oligarchs are archetypes.

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Response to TwistOneUp (Reply #21)

Thu Oct 11, 2018, 12:53 PM

22. So true

The whole thing is even built on the misinformation that “rich guys” give us jobs. The largest employer in the country is Walmart and it’s not owned by a rich guy. It’s owned by millions of stockholders, including me and many on DU I would guess, in their 401ks if nothing else.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Thu Oct 11, 2018, 12:55 AM

9. It always astonishes me.

these dumbasses either forget, or don't realize, that taxes pay for shit that we all need and want. I think some of these morons believe there are just a bunch of people who's pockets are being filled by our tax dollars. I used to live in an area that has low taxes. It was like living in a dirty swamp land filled with piles of feces. I now live in a much nicer area gladly paying higher taxes.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Thu Oct 11, 2018, 01:12 AM

10. Yep. Most people care about what affects THEM, or what they think...

... will affect them and their immediate family.

I know a woman from Italy (born in the USA) who was a hard-core conservative/libertarian for years. Her political stances were published in various newspapers. I found them (with her picture) after doing a Google search of her name.

I met her several years ago at a convention regarding a rare genetic condition that we share, which can cause vision loss. She later went blind from the disorder.

Now she complains* that the Italian government doesn't help her enough, but she's even more shocked by medical expenses in the USA when she visits her family over here each year.

I'm nice and don't point out her complete political reversal.

* To me over the telephone. She doesn't write newspaper columns anymore.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Thu Oct 11, 2018, 11:19 AM

12. Right! My 47-yr-old son says he's not a liberal or a conservative. He's a "capitalist." Says he

votes for whoever can make him the most money. Frustrating to try and get him to understand what is at sake. I honestly hope he doesn't even vote.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Thu Oct 11, 2018, 11:26 AM

13. It depends on where you live.

On the coasts, I think you would see people that just want a tax cut a lot. In the red states, I think you will find that more R voters vote on abortion or some version of “can’t stand all the political correctness”.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Thu Oct 11, 2018, 11:40 AM

15. Also, need to educate these people so they realize paying taxes actually saves them money

If we all pay a little for something, it is less expensive then if an individual tried to pay for it themselves. Social security and healthcare are good examples of this, but even public education and almost any other service. A lot of people have trouble grasping this concept for some reason. A lot of Republican people just don't get taxes I think.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Thu Oct 11, 2018, 11:44 AM

17. Agree.

We need to explain our approach to taxes MUCH better. And also why Medicare for all will be cheaper than the private insurance approach.

If we could just tax the 1% more and force them to give back a little to the people who made them super rich---we'd have a civilization.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Thu Oct 11, 2018, 11:45 AM

18. Here's a great story to illustrate how idiotic some people are about this...

I went into my Credit Union a few years ago to pull out some money to pay my taxes. I happened to tell the teller helping me what I was doing and why.

She proceeded to tell me how she and her husband had paid off their house a few years ago, but their "adviser" had convinced them to take out a second mortgage so they could take the deductible and not pay as much in taxes.

She was beaming, proud, about it.

My response: "Hold on a second. How much did you take out?"

"$100,000"

"And does your 'adviser' work for the bank where you got the 2nd mortgage?"

"Yes."

"And the interest rate is probably about 5%?"

"Around that"

"So... 5% of $100,000 is about $5,000 per year. That means you're paying that corporation $5,000 per year so that you can not have to pay about $300 more in taxes." and then I really hammered it home... "$5,000 straight into some rich 1%'ers pocket to make them even richer while keeping $300 away from improving roads, schools, and paying police, firemen and teachers... Sounds like a bargain to me."

When I left she looked like it was just starting to sink in...

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Thu Oct 11, 2018, 11:59 AM

20. It's a brilliant tactic. Similar to pushing everyone's retirement accounts into the stock market

It gives middle-class saps the illusion that they're in the same boat as the ultra-wealthy and will benefit from the same policies: tax cuts, deregulation, etc.

Unfortunately, there's no real answer to it outside of Clintonite third-wayism, which successfully pulled us out of the shadow of Reagan but alienated much of the Democratic base. This is yet another example of being hamstrung because we're up against intellectually unserious opponents. We have to make responsible policy arguments and talk about cost-vs-benefit tradeoffs, while they're campaigning on gleefully unserious nonsense like "tax cuts for everyone will solve the budget deficit." We're not playing with the same rules of engagement.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Thu Oct 11, 2018, 01:32 PM

26. I hear the same thing

 

From my republican friends they get peanuts and see all the jobs going to the Red states so that's why they keep on voting republican. But they don't see bridges in shambbles, poor road conditions. We need to stop with the idenity politics it seems they are winning the blue collar votes.

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Response to Wyatt513 (Reply #26)

Thu Oct 11, 2018, 01:55 PM

29. Oh they see the broken down bridges, roads, everything, but they want someone else to ...

pay for it.

What they don't realize is that someone else is THEM too, along w/ US. Selfish people who all cry a river if heaven forbid, they have to pay more than a quarter for gas...

Everybody makes a community/village.

No wonder that these people are bitching and moaning about the lack of jobs and other services in their run down communities. What business or individuals would want to come to their community to open a business or factory, when so much needs to be done on local infrastructure and other government services (non-existent) that they could call upon if need be in the course of them opening up for business?

Who in the hell would want to even live there? When you have so many bigoted people (anti immigrant and the like) and those w/ one track minds (no, we always done 'it' this way, etc. type of excuses), no wonder people are fleeing the rural areas by the droves, and moving to the big cities where they are jobs all over, there are services all over, they are many different community outreach centers for various topics/areas that one could be overwhelmed. Most rural areas? You might as well crawl into the nearest barn and drink (or take meth or heroin, a very sad thing that rural communities are unable to really effectively cope with).

In short these people bitch and moan all of the time but don't want to pay the piper when it comes time to pay the bills. They brought the misery upon themselves and want everyone else but themselves to rescue them from their plight. They blame everyone else one too, but themselves.

For my part, I'll happily pay the taxes in my highly urbanized city, for I know that I'll get the services I need, and get small business help too at the many different facilities that the city offers small businesses. I've lived in the small town and had enough of the pitfalls I've described above to last me for the rest of my life, and I'll never go back again, especially when this can hold you back from accomplishing your dreams and aspirations.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Thu Oct 11, 2018, 01:37 PM

28. republicans vote for their tax cut, but insist that democrats only want handouts.

they're idiots, what can i say.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Thu Oct 11, 2018, 02:17 PM

30. Republicans tend to vastly overestimate

how much they pay in taxes, and income tax in particular. Lots of people don't understand the concept of marginal rates. They think if they're in the "28% bracket" that means they pay 28% tax on every cent of their income. And just to add to the fun, some of them won't give up the idea even the face of proof to the contrary. I asked my dad to look at his 1040 and calculate what percentage he really paid in income tax, and he flatly refused to do it. "I already know how much it is," he says, but he's wrong and it's much less than he thinks. He wants to keep believing he's overtaxed. Why? I have no idea, but there's a Republican for you. I have no idea how to fix this.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #30)

Fri Oct 12, 2018, 07:28 AM

34. Hmm, IMHE that is the way people act when you've been factual with them and they don't want to be

... proven wrong or their underlying reason challenged.

Most of the time it would just take repeating the facts when they come up

They'll eventually hear even if they don't react

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #34)

Fri Oct 12, 2018, 10:58 AM

35. For every hour he spends talking with me

he spends at least 100 listening to Fox News and RW radio.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2018, 06:57 AM

33. So when April 15 comes

I think a lot of folks will have to pay when they used to get a refund. What then?

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