Sun Oct 7, 2018, 08:52 PM
beastie boy (2,781 posts)
A few good reasons to vote for Manchin in November:
Chuck Schumer, Senate Majority Leader
Kamala Harris, Chair, Judiciary Committee Elizabeth Warren, Chair, Environment and Public Works Committee Dick Durbin, Chair, Appropriations Committee Tammy Duckworth, Chair, Armed Services Committee Bernie Sanders, Chair, Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs Committee Corey Booker, Chair, Rules and Administration Committee Beto O'Rourke, Chair, Select Committee on Ethics Etc, etc. You get the idea. Yes, voting for Manchin is very counter-intuitive. But please, let's not have a repeat of 2016! Pragmatism before emotions.
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47 replies, 2760 views
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Author | Time | Post |
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beastie boy | Oct 2018 | OP |
Salviati | Oct 2018 | #1 | |
only my opinion | Oct 2018 | #29 | |
dwayneb | Oct 2018 | #38 | |
only my opinion | Oct 2018 | #43 | |
Funtatlaguy | Oct 2018 | #2 | |
In It to Win It | Oct 2018 | #3 | |
NurseJackie | Oct 2018 | #4 | |
dchill | Oct 2018 | #5 | |
manor321 | Oct 2018 | #6 | |
brooklynite | Oct 2018 | #12 | |
pnwmom | Oct 2018 | #24 | |
LAS14 | Oct 2018 | #7 | |
Snotcicles | Oct 2018 | #8 | |
beastie boy | Oct 2018 | #18 | |
CaliforniaPeggy | Oct 2018 | #9 | |
toddwv | Oct 2018 | #10 | |
LisaL | Oct 2018 | #11 | |
Retrograde | Oct 2018 | #13 | |
beastie boy | Oct 2018 | #19 | |
PoindexterOglethorpe | Oct 2018 | #14 | |
OhioBlue | Oct 2018 | #15 | |
Post removed | Oct 2018 | #21 | |
pnwmom | Oct 2018 | #25 | |
OhioBlue | Oct 2018 | #31 | |
yardwork | Oct 2018 | #35 | |
beastie boy | Oct 2018 | #17 | |
JI7 | Oct 2018 | #30 | |
yardwork | Oct 2018 | #34 | |
Autumn | Oct 2018 | #39 | |
GoCubsGo | Oct 2018 | #16 | |
sandensea | Oct 2018 | #20 | |
JoeOtterbein | Oct 2018 | #22 | |
mountain grammy | Oct 2018 | #23 | |
scipan | Oct 2018 | #44 | |
elmac | Oct 2018 | #26 | |
LenaBaby61 | Oct 2018 | #27 | |
underthematrix | Oct 2018 | #28 | |
Thunderbeast | Oct 2018 | #32 | |
scipan | Oct 2018 | #45 | |
JCanete | Oct 2018 | #33 | |
Gothmog | Oct 2018 | #36 | |
MineralMan | Oct 2018 | #37 | |
DAMANgoldberg | Oct 2018 | #40 | |
Post removed | Oct 2018 | #41 | |
progressoid | Oct 2018 | #42 | |
kdmorris | Oct 2018 | #47 | |
scipan | Oct 2018 | #46 |
Response to beastie boy (Original post)
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 08:55 PM
Salviati (5,215 posts)
1. Elect Democrats.
Then Elect Better Democrats.
Repeat as desired. |
Response to Salviati (Reply #1)
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 12:07 AM
only my opinion (32 posts)
29. We have to realize there are three types of Democrats and only one type of Republican
There are Democrats who are progressive both economically and socially
There are Democrats who are progressive economically and moderately conservative socially There are Democrats who are moderately conservative economically and socially progressive The Republicans are regressive both economically and socially Democrats are a big tent party built on cooperation and tolerance Republicans are a small tent party built on purity and intolerance Democracy requires Democrats Fascism requires Republicans May we never become the mirror image of Republicans |
Response to only my opinion (Reply #29)
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 08:50 AM
dwayneb (28 posts)
38. Party in power today is not reflective of the GOP in the past
That's a pretty good description. Generally agree with you but the party in power today is not reflective of the GOP in the past. Trump and the neo-fascist Right essentially hijacked the old Republican party. Republicans from 1950 - 1980 were right of center for the most part, with some prominent radical exceptions. The neo-fascist hard Right began co-opting the GOP back in the 80's starting with the Moral Majority and proceeding through Rush Limbaugh, Fox News and destruction of the Fairness Doctrine.
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Response to dwayneb (Reply #38)
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 04:23 PM
only my opinion (32 posts)
43. I agree 1000 %
This is why I say Republicans are a small tent party built on purity and intolerance
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Response to beastie boy (Original post)
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 08:58 PM
Funtatlaguy (8,589 posts)
2. We can't afford party purity right now. Not in deeply red states.
Response to beastie boy (Original post)
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 09:00 PM
In It to Win It (1,920 posts)
3. Joe Manchin may not be what we like but he's what we got.
...and we need the numbers.
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Response to beastie boy (Original post)
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 09:00 PM
NurseJackie (36,668 posts)
4. Thank you!
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Response to beastie boy (Original post)
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 09:04 PM
manor321 (3,344 posts)
6. Of course. Then primary him when we get the chance
If he hasn't already switched parties by then.
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Response to manor321 (Reply #6)
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 09:40 PM
brooklynite (67,790 posts)
12. You realize that he didn't switch Parties when he could have in 2015...or 2017?
But maybe beating him up will help him decide?
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Response to manor321 (Reply #6)
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 11:49 PM
pnwmom (103,812 posts)
24. Primarying an incumbent weakens him for the general. It's not helpful,
if we want to have a Dem in the seat, to have him attacked both by Democrats and Republicans.
And W VA is a state that went for Trump by 68% over Hillary's 26%. Any Democrat that could satisfy DUers doesn't have a prayer of winning in the general. |
Response to beastie boy (Original post)
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 09:09 PM
Snotcicles (9,089 posts)
8. Lets dump the POS and put our efforts elsewhere. nt
Response to Snotcicles (Reply #8)
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 10:25 PM
beastie boy (2,781 posts)
18. By all means. let's! But not this November.
Response to beastie boy (Original post)
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 09:09 PM
CaliforniaPeggy (135,598 posts)
9. Those are EXCELLENT reasons!
Pragmatism before.........way before emotions.
Seeing those names as Leader and Chairs! Wow. Makes me very happy. And this is how we do it. ![]() |
Response to beastie boy (Original post)
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 09:29 PM
toddwv (2,822 posts)
10. Backed into a corner on this one...
The other choice is this shitstain of a human being:
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Response to beastie boy (Original post)
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 09:31 PM
LisaL (39,528 posts)
11. Yea, yea, yea.
He is almost a republican but better than an actual republican alternative.
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Response to beastie boy (Original post)
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 09:53 PM
Retrograde (7,521 posts)
13. Feinstein has seniority on Judiciary
but any of the current Dems on that committee would be fine with me.
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Response to Retrograde (Reply #13)
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 10:27 PM
beastie boy (2,781 posts)
19. The list is purely hypothetical.
Just to illustrate what's at stake.
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Response to beastie boy (Original post)
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 10:05 PM
PoindexterOglethorpe (17,716 posts)
14. Yeah, vote for someone who completely betrayed the Democratic Party and all women.
Makes sense.
Makes me happy I don't live in his state. Remind me again why it's okay to support him? Yeah, I read the OP and wouldn't it be better to have a real Democrat in his place? If someone steps forward and wants to primary him, then what? |
Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #14)
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 10:17 PM
OhioBlue (5,080 posts)
15. How exactly to you propose getting a "real Democrat" in his place when the election is in one month
between him and a Republican?
If he loses, this is what happens: 1. Republican holds the Senate seat for 6 years and runs again with the power of incumbency in a very Red State. 2. We lose a seat that brings us closer to majority control, power to stop horrible Trump pics, power to control legislation and committee hearings. 3. The State of WV loses a Democratic voice. He may be a Conservative Dem but he still carries the voice of a Democrat when he speaks at graduation ceremonies, chamber of commerce dinners, and other gatherings. 4. The WV State Democratic party is weakened through the loss of a high level elected official that helps with party infrastructure and fundraising. Edit to add: He is the absolute best we are going to do in a Statewide election in WV at this time. It will take a generation of organizing to change. The demographics in WV are not changing like other States. |
Response to OhioBlue (Reply #15)
Post removed
Response to Post removed (Reply #21)
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 11:51 PM
pnwmom (103,812 posts)
25. The state of W VA voted for Trump by 68% to Hillary's 26%. It is a miracle
that any Dem managed to be elected Senator. The reason he was elected is because he was a popular Democratic governor first.
No other Dem in that state has a chance for the Senate. If we kneecap him in a primary, we'll end up with someone far more rightwing than he is. |
Response to Post removed (Reply #21)
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 12:20 AM
OhioBlue (5,080 posts)
31. If you primary him with someone more liberal, they will lose. WV isn't going to elect anyone to the
left of Manchin in a Senate race.
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Response to Post removed (Reply #21)
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 04:09 AM
yardwork (52,175 posts)
35. Hopeless.
Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #14)
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 10:22 PM
beastie boy (2,781 posts)
17. Three questions
How do you propose to get a real Democrat in his place after the primaries are over?
If you don't vote for him, do you think you will ever get a chance to have a real Democrat in his place? What about Chuck Schumer's chances of becoming Majority Leader in '19? On the other hand, if you are talking 2020, I am listening! |
Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #14)
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 12:09 AM
JI7 (82,511 posts)
30. yeah, if it means Chuck Schumer would be majority leader it makes ALL THE FUCKING DIFFERENCE because
Schumer would atually have had power to stop Kavanaugh from even coming up for a vote. and the committee chair would have the power also.
i don't live in West Virginia but i know it's full of right wing bigots who voted for Trump in huge numbers so i don't expect much from there that would be better than manchin. |
Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #14)
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 04:08 AM
yardwork (52,175 posts)
34. The primaries are over.
Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #14)
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 08:58 AM
Autumn (39,832 posts)
39. Glad I don't have to make that choice.I have no problem with anyone voting for
or supporting him, I also have no problem with anyone who decides that they can't vote for him or support him. Actions have consequences, and he like everyone else will have to live with them.
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Response to beastie boy (Original post)
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 10:20 PM
GoCubsGo (25,761 posts)
16. And, one other VERY important reason.
We don't want a "Senator Patrick Morrisey." He is vile.
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Response to beastie boy (Original post)
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 11:17 PM
sandensea (13,136 posts)
20. If I lived in West Virginia, I certainly would.
But let me tell you: I'd definitely be voting against the alternative, rather than for him.
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Response to beastie boy (Original post)
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 11:44 PM
JoeOtterbein (5,491 posts)
22. Yes, then be ready to primary him in six years. That could give an opponent plenty....
...of time to beat him. That is the way it should be done. Inside our own house. Not in the political streets with the rethugs.
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Response to beastie boy (Original post)
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 11:47 PM
mountain grammy (22,481 posts)
23. I'm glad I don't have to vote for him.
it would be hard. I think, if the Senate ends up tied, he'll switch and screw us.
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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #23)
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 06:42 PM
scipan (912 posts)
44. I wouldn't be surprised.
Anyone in WVA should consider this. He seems like he will do what is in his best interests and fk his party, always.
Still better than the alternative, I guess. |
Response to beastie boy (Original post)
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 12:01 AM
elmac (4,642 posts)
26. the problem with Dems pretending to be repugs is that they don't bring in progressive votes
and repugs would never vote for them anyway. That just leaves independents which is just a name for people too stupid to know what they want. I could never understand why Democrats vote republican in red states, it just doesn't help them. I wouldn't bet any money on him winning against any serious challenge.
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Response to beastie boy (Original post)
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 12:04 AM
LenaBaby61 (4,513 posts)
27. Glad That I don't live in ...
West Virginia.
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Response to beastie boy (Original post)
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 12:05 AM
underthematrix (5,632 posts)
28. This article is everything
Response to beastie boy (Original post)
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 12:39 AM
Thunderbeast (1,354 posts)
32. In a 51-49 senate, he will flip
No question.
The GOP will offer anything. Committee chairmanships, bury West Virginia in federal cash, coal powered Navy. He will be a Republican before noon on November 7. |
Response to Thunderbeast (Reply #32)
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 06:44 PM
scipan (912 posts)
45. He's their ace in the hole. n/t
Response to beastie boy (Original post)
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 03:15 AM
JCanete (5,272 posts)
33. its not counter-intuitive now. He's better than a republican. It was damn counter-intuitive and
problematic to vote for him over his challenger in the primary, all under the auspice promoted here that his challenger wouldn't be able to win in the GE and we needed Kavanaugh for moments like this one, AND that primary challenges themselves were BAD. |
Response to beastie boy (Original post)
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 08:32 AM
Gothmog (90,938 posts)
36. We need all of the Democrats possible
Response to beastie boy (Original post)
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 08:43 AM
MineralMan (135,807 posts)
37. Almost none of us here on DU live in West Virginia.
We could not vote for Manchin, even if we wanted to. I would not want to. I would vote for him, of course, since he is a Democrat and we need every Democratic Senator to create a majority.
If I lived in West Virginia, which I don't, I would be working nonstop to try to find a more suitable Democratic candidate for the Senate. someone who could win in that red state, but who would never even think of voting for someone like Kavanaugh. I do not live in West Virginia, however, and am very, very glad I do not. |
Response to beastie boy (Original post)
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 10:12 AM
DAMANgoldberg (1,199 posts)
40. Keep Manchin around...
hope he doesn't switch parties during that term. Watch Richard Ojeda. If he wins in WV-3, there could be a real primary challenger come 2024. Otherwise, that's as good as it gets there.
Support Phil Bredesen in TN (not exactly liberal, but right for TN) Kyrsten Sinema in AZ (again, liberal in the Gabby Giffords manner, right for AZ) There are other conservadems out there. We have always had them, Wyche Fowler, Howell Heflin, Sam Nunn, Lawton Childs (FL-Gov), Fritz Hollings, mostly Zell Miller, the list goes on. |
Response to beastie boy (Original post)
Post removed
Response to beastie boy (Original post)
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 02:13 PM
progressoid (45,845 posts)
42. Heidi Heitkamp
Also in a tough race in a red state. She did the right thing.
Manchin is a coward. |
Response to progressoid (Reply #42)
Tue Oct 9, 2018, 06:56 AM
kdmorris (5,649 posts)
47. This
I can't vote for her, either, but I did give money to her campaign.
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Response to beastie boy (Original post)
Mon Oct 8, 2018, 06:56 PM
scipan (912 posts)
46. Red State Democrats Can Do Better Than Joe Manchin
But Manchin’s vote should call old party strategies into question. If the Democratic Party can’t count on its own senators for votes as morally pivotal as the Kavanaugh confirmation, its big tent might just be too big. Its tolerance for conservative members might not be as pragmatic as it appears, either. Since Trump took office in 2016, a number of Democrats to Manchin’s left have performed surprisingly well so-called red states, winning some unexpected primary elections and polling well against Republican candidates. The Democratic candidate for Florida governor, Andrew Gillum, has been campaigning on Medicare for All and still leads Republican Ron DeSantis by four points in a recent Florida Southern College poll. In Georgia’s gubernatorial race, progressive Stacey Abrams has locked Republican Brian Kemp in a dead heat. In other races, recent polling suggested that progressive congressional candidates Jess King and Randy Bryce, running in Pennsylvania’s 11th congressional district and Wisconsin’s first congressional district respectively, have closed gaps with their Republican opponents to single digits. And in one of the year’s most surprising contests, Democrat Beto O’Rourke has trapped Ted Cruz in a race for his political life. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/10/red-state-democrats-can-do-better-than-joe-manchin.html I don't disagree with OP but the idea that we are stuck with Repub lite senators like him is short-sighted and wrong, I think. Hope he draws some really good primary opponents next time (IF he is still a dem). |