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Wed Sep 26, 2018, 10:45 AM

BREAKING - Deposition of Julie Swetnick (Kavanaugh's new accuser)




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Reply BREAKING - Deposition of Julie Swetnick (Kavanaugh's new accuser) (Original post)
brooklynite Sep 26 OP
Achilleaze Sep 26 #1
major debacle Sep 26 #2
DownriverDem Sep 26 #147
Honeycombe8 Sep 26 #186
manor321 Sep 26 #3
spanone Sep 26 #4
Renew Deal Sep 26 #5
blaze Sep 26 #15
triron Sep 26 #18
Renew Deal Sep 26 #19
blaze Sep 26 #31
honest.abe Sep 26 #33
Blue_true Sep 26 #65
honest.abe Sep 26 #68
Hortensis Sep 26 #44
honest.abe Sep 26 #60
MountCleaners Sep 26 #63
Hortensis Sep 26 #75
honest.abe Sep 26 #83
Hortensis Sep 26 #88
whathehell Sep 26 #135
bettyellen Sep 26 #174
Cha Sep 27 #198
LisaM Sep 27 #200
Blue_true Sep 26 #62
calimary Sep 26 #64
Frustratedlady Sep 26 #79
Ms. Toad Sep 26 #133
Frustratedlady Sep 26 #152
Ms. Toad Sep 26 #196
Recursion Sep 26 #122
DownriverDem Sep 26 #162
mainer Sep 26 #6
gabeana Sep 26 #10
BlancheSplanchnik Sep 26 #30
watoos Sep 26 #58
mahatmakanejeeves Sep 26 #73
winstars Sep 26 #80
watoos Sep 26 #121
winstars Sep 26 #132
BlancheSplanchnik Sep 26 #157
lunatica Sep 26 #102
BlancheSplanchnik Sep 27 #204
calimary Sep 26 #109
BlancheSplanchnik Sep 27 #205
calimary Sep 27 #207
BlancheSplanchnik Sep 27 #208
Duppers Sep 26 #47
OliverQ Sep 26 #49
justie18 Sep 26 #78
RockaFowler Sep 26 #7
smirkymonkey Sep 26 #28
honest.abe Sep 26 #8
Achilleaze Sep 26 #20
leftstreet Sep 26 #9
jezebel321 Sep 26 #27
Jersey Devil Sep 26 #35
klook Sep 26 #130
trc Sep 26 #38
BootinUp Sep 26 #11
Blue_true Sep 26 #69
ProudMNDemocrat Sep 26 #12
Hortensis Sep 26 #13
reACTIONary Sep 26 #89
Hortensis Sep 26 #111
reACTIONary Sep 26 #137
Hortensis Sep 26 #141
Old Vet Sep 26 #14
triron Sep 26 #16
durablend Sep 26 #17
demmiblue Sep 26 #21
calimary Sep 26 #101
DesertRat Sep 26 #22
ProudProgressiveNow Sep 26 #23
mia Sep 26 #24
brooklynite Sep 26 #25
PA Democrat Sep 26 #29
lostnfound Sep 26 #84
reACTIONary Sep 26 #98
forgotmylogin Sep 26 #178
reACTIONary Sep 26 #179
democratisphere Sep 26 #26
vlyons Sep 26 #66
democratisphere Sep 26 #82
NewJeffCT Sep 26 #32
uponit7771 Sep 26 #37
Hav Sep 26 #45
Blue_true Sep 26 #76
llmart Sep 26 #34
FloridaBlues Sep 26 #42
brush Sep 26 #87
KPN Sep 26 #36
TheBlackAdder Sep 26 #39
brooklynite Sep 26 #40
olegramps Sep 26 #100
major debacle Sep 26 #41
Hortensis Sep 26 #50
Fred Sanders Sep 26 #81
gordianot Sep 26 #43
AncientGeezer Sep 26 #46
honest.abe Sep 26 #53
triron Sep 26 #57
AncientGeezer Sep 26 #67
LanternWaste Sep 26 #93
AncientGeezer Sep 26 #105
Grasswire2 Sep 26 #70
AncientGeezer Sep 26 #86
grantcart Sep 26 #112
Fred Sanders Sep 26 #85
AncientGeezer Sep 26 #96
Fred Sanders Sep 26 #103
AncientGeezer Sep 26 #107
Fred Sanders Sep 26 #115
AncientGeezer Sep 26 #127
Stallion Sep 26 #131
AncientGeezer Sep 26 #139
jberryhill Sep 26 #154
AncientGeezer Sep 26 #163
jberryhill Sep 26 #167
ET Awful Sep 26 #126
AncientGeezer Sep 26 #128
ET Awful Sep 26 #143
jberryhill Sep 26 #153
ET Awful Sep 26 #160
AncientGeezer Sep 26 #155
ET Awful Sep 26 #161
AncientGeezer Sep 26 #166
ET Awful Sep 26 #170
jberryhill Sep 26 #176
ET Awful Sep 26 #182
jberryhill Sep 26 #183
jberryhill Sep 26 #184
ET Awful Sep 26 #185
jberryhill Sep 26 #188
AncientGeezer Sep 26 #189
brush Sep 26 #91
yodermon Sep 26 #94
Stallion Sep 26 #114
Fred Sanders Sep 26 #118
jberryhill Sep 26 #140
AncientGeezer Sep 26 #148
jberryhill Sep 26 #151
H2O Man Sep 26 #48
fleur-de-lisa Sep 26 #51
Freethinker65 Sep 26 #52
Solly Mack Sep 26 #54
lunasun Sep 26 #55
chowder66 Sep 26 #56
NatBurner Sep 26 #59
InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 26 #61
RecoveringJournalist Sep 26 #71
proglib217 Sep 26 #72
Hermit-The-Prog Sep 26 #74
Brentar Sep 26 #77
burrowowl Sep 26 #90
NastyRiffraff Sep 26 #92
FakeNoose Sep 26 #95
peggysue2 Sep 26 #97
saidsimplesimon Sep 26 #99
Gothmog Sep 26 #104
honest.abe Sep 26 #108
Gothmog Sep 26 #145
honest.abe Sep 26 #146
Stallion Sep 26 #117
Gothmog Sep 26 #150
Pacifist Patriot Sep 26 #106
Botany Sep 26 #110
duforsure Sep 26 #113
LAS14 Sep 26 #116
NurseJackie Sep 26 #119
Oneironaut Sep 26 #120
watoos Sep 26 #123
Oneironaut Sep 26 #125
handmade34 Sep 26 #124
Pepsidog Sep 26 #129
MichMan Sep 26 #134
Pepsidog Sep 26 #173
moreland01 Sep 26 #136
MichMan Sep 26 #142
IluvPitties Sep 26 #138
OnDoutside Sep 26 #144
Omaha Steve Sep 26 #149
airmid Sep 26 #156
Glimmer of Hope Sep 26 #158
llmart Sep 26 #165
jberryhill Sep 26 #168
Glimmer of Hope Sep 26 #172
jberryhill Sep 26 #175
AncientGeezer Sep 26 #192
AncientGeezer Sep 26 #193
Glimmer of Hope Sep 26 #194
AncientGeezer Sep 26 #195
treestar Sep 27 #202
AncientGeezer Sep 27 #206
karin_sj Sep 26 #159
Ilsa Sep 26 #169
karin_sj Sep 26 #171
Hekate Sep 26 #164
Pachamama Sep 26 #177
torius Sep 26 #180
Honeycombe8 Sep 26 #187
Laura in LA Sep 26 #181
Eliot Rosewater Sep 26 #190
Laura in LA Sep 26 #191
Cha Sep 27 #199
Eliot Rosewater Sep 27 #201
Laura in LA Sep 27 #203
Glimmer of Hope Sep 26 #197

Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 10:48 AM

1. Important. Must read.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 10:49 AM

2. Good credentials

This is a very strong body blow

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Response to major debacle (Reply #2)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:58 PM

147. Change the Headline

That is not a deposition. A deposition is where attorneys on both sides question the witness who is under oath. A court reporter is there to take down every word. As the title of the document states it's a Declaration.

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #147)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 04:22 PM

186. +1. This is a "Declaration," not a "deposition." nt

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 10:49 AM

3. Wow!

Those are blockbuster allegations.

Thank you to this woman for being so brave!

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 10:50 AM

4. K&R...

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 10:52 AM

5. Is there more?

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #5)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 10:57 AM

15. There is one more page

and I can't figure out how to cut and paste it.

She says that she was a victim of gang rape and Kavanaugh and Judge were both involved.

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Response to blaze (Reply #15)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 10:59 AM

18. Damn!

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Response to blaze (Reply #15)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 10:59 AM

19. Got it. here it is...

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #19)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:07 AM

31. Thank you!! nt



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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #19)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:08 AM

33. Drugged and gang raped. OMG.

I dont see how Kavajerk survives this.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #33)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:35 AM

65. An earlier woman, I think the fourth accuser mentioned gang rapes.

She was once Judge's girlfriend.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #65)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:39 AM

68. Yes, I think her name is Ramirez.

Its all coming together to paint a very strong case against this asshole.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #19)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:19 AM

44. Caution. She saw this at "many of these parties"?

Gang rapes? We know it happens. But again and again the same social circles? Did no one ever call the police or tell parents or school authorities? The behavior just kept going party after party?

Not my scene. I left school early to go to work, got an adult boyfriend, went to parties with many adults I knew and didn't, quite a wide variety from many backgrounds, lots of drugs and alcohol, some talk here and there about committing terrorist acts to bring on the revolution (it was the '60s). I thought that was pretty wild, but it was Sesame Street compared to what's described here.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #44)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:33 AM

60. "Did no one ever call the police or tell parents or school authorities?"

Afraid of being labeled tattle tale or not cool or whatever... these are kids. These girls probably thought this was normal behavior at parties like this.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #60)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:34 AM

63. Exactly

I attended many drunken parties in high school. No way would we tell any adults. We'd all get blamed and there would be no more parties.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #60)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:42 AM

75. As a girl I can say, gang rape "normal"? No.

These girls would never have thought being drugged and raped by multiple males was normal behavior. At parties like this or anywhere else.

But we know these things do happen. This would have required an ongoing supply of girls who didn't really know each other. Other witnesses did comment that students came from various schools.

But again, don't just swallow everything whole. 100% for this:

We demand an immediate FBI investigation into the allegations,” Avenatti said. “Under no circumstances should Brett Kavanaugh be confirmed absent a full and complete investigation.”

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #75)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:49 AM

83. Well maybe "normal" was probably bad choice of words.

I think they just saw it and just keep on partying as long as it didnt affect them directly.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #83)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:53 AM

88. Bingo. If that's what people in their groups did...

Adolescence is a bundle of dysfunctions.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #75)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:44 PM

135. Agreed. Gang rape would never be "ok" with any female I've ever known.

This is sickening.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #60)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 02:21 PM

174. I used to go to a lot of college parties when I was barely in High School and we knew to watch out

 

For each other and to only drink from cans and bottles we opened ourselves. Every party they tried again and again to separate us from the pack, and to serve us punch.
I was 14-15 and mostly there for the free booze. It was totally normal. We’d never go upstairs or down when asked.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #60)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 12:36 AM

198. It's no wonder Dr Ford didn't tell her parents!



I just looked at the thread and there's a "correction".. Ralph Blasey is a Jr not a IV.

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Response to Cha (Reply #198)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 09:52 AM

200. And he WANTS to belong to a club like that?

Good grief.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #19)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:34 AM

62. That bastard is shredded now. He is done.

Julie is a strong woman. She will finally get some justice.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #19)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:34 AM

64. O.M.G.

O.M.G.

O.M.G.

O.M.G.

O.M.G.

O.M.G

O.M.G.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #19)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:47 AM

79. Well, that pretty much takes care of the "I was a virgin through high school and far beyond" shit.

Avenatti won't let them sweep this under the rug and it darned well better not be swept away.

I predict the following:


Kavanaugh's confirmation is pulled for SCOTUS
Kavanaugh's present job is no longer available - "You're Fired!"
Kavanaugh's wife finally gets up enough nerve to kiss him goodbye
Kavanaugh's daughters divorce him right along with their mom



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Response to Frustratedlady (Reply #79)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:38 PM

133. As to "you're fired,"

Can't happen. He's a federal judge with a lifetime appointment.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #133)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 01:10 PM

152. There has to be some method of removal.

No one can be guaranteed a lifetime job with no chance of losing it. Impeachment might be overkill, but there has to be something similar.

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Response to Frustratedlady (Reply #152)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 09:17 PM

196. Impeachment is the process.

It is the only means to remove a federal judge.

(So Trump can't say, "you're fired." Congress has to impeach him.)

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Response to blaze (Reply #15)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:23 PM

122. She's being very careful: she's saying they were at the party

She's saying exactly as much as she can firmly remember and no more. It's still damning.

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Response to blaze (Reply #15)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 01:30 PM

162. Left click

copy image.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 10:52 AM

6. OK, THIS will stick!! Avenatti is turning out to be our best friend

And to think some of us doubted him.

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Response to mainer (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 10:54 AM

10. I know the doubting of him was getting irritating

Here on DU

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Response to gabeana (Reply #10)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:07 AM

30. mmm, yes. At the same time, it is good to maintain some skepticism.

I like Charles Pierce’s perceptions, that Avenatti is an excellent ambulance chaser, a damn good one, and that he’s been right every time so far, and that yes he’s got a mega-ego but that he’s using it for good.

I guess the overkill on the skepticism gets annoying.

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Response to BlancheSplanchnik (Reply #30)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:30 AM

58. The term "ambulance chaser" was coined

by right wing Republicans. Not nice to see that narrative reposted here on DU.

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Response to watoos (Reply #58)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:41 AM

73. No, it was not. From Wiktionary:

ambulance chaser

English

Etymology

The origins of this phrase date from 1897, from newspaper articles about attorneys seeking clients through targeted mail solicitation. “Ambulance chasing” was one of the descriptive phrases employed by the media for this activity. It later became a derogatory term for direct advertising.

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Reply #73)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:48 AM

80. I think it was meant in reference to Rudy calling him an "ambulance chaser" ...

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Response to winstars (Reply #80)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:23 PM

121. Thank you

It was meant to take down Avenatti. Funny how it arose right after his decision to maybe run for president.

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Response to watoos (Reply #121)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:37 PM

132. Rudy might have called him that a bit earlier but its getting blurry... rollercoaster ride!!!

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Response to watoos (Reply #58)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 01:18 PM

157. Charles Pierce used the phrase in his essay.

I’m gonna have to go find the link but I’m in the middle of work (brief pause in the assignment right now).

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Response to BlancheSplanchnik (Reply #30)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:06 PM

102. I can't think of a single other lawyer who has championed women more than Avenatti

Stormy is a sex worker so many, including people here, judge her but Avenatti doesn’t and he is bringing Donald Trump down.

As far as I know he’s the only male lawyer who believes women deserve the best legal representation there is. So now women who normally would have little recourse to fight “important” men who have sexually assaulted them are going to him because he fights his ass off for them.

Maybe if the women who came forward during the Presidential campaign to accuse Trump of groping them had gone to Avenatti things might be very different for them today. I have respect for Gloria Allred but Avenatti goes much further and makes sure his clients aren’t forgotten or left in the dust.

And so far, when he says something important is coming he has produced.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #102)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 01:49 PM

204. Yes, he does treat women like human beings!

I loved when he released the recent statement. Brave woman—I feel glad she’s got a good lawyer. May he bury the perps.

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Response to BlancheSplanchnik (Reply #30)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:10 PM

109. Certainly it's good to try to remain objective. But THIS??? Jesus Mary and Joseph...

AND one other thing that Charlie Pierce DOES point out - twice, in that essay: Michael Avenatti hasn't been wrong yet.

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Response to calimary (Reply #109)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 04:32 PM

205. Sorry I didn't refer enough to that point.

I just found Pierce’s essay very interesting.

Oh I want to see Avenatti bury these scumbags. He’s the only voice talking in the language they’re scared enough of: “I can crush you without cheating”

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Response to BlancheSplanchnik (Reply #205)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 06:34 PM

207. Exactly.

And he COULD crush them without cheating. I'm convinced of that.

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Response to calimary (Reply #207)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 06:37 PM

208. I *crave* seeing that.

I can’t stand pukes getting away with their shit all the time.

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Response to gabeana (Reply #10)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:21 AM

47. I agree.

"The doubting of him" among many other things.


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Response to mainer (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:24 AM

49. That's some strong optimism. Nothing will stick with Republicans.

These allegations just make Republicans want to confirm him even more.

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Response to mainer (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:46 AM

78. Have to agree

I was one of the doubters and I must say he delivered - bigly!

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 10:53 AM

7. So glad that she came out when she did

His lies are catching up with him. That Faux News interview was one of the worst things he could have done.

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Response to RockaFowler (Reply #7)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:04 AM

28. He was lying through his teeth!

I knew he was a smarmy dirtball all along!

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 10:53 AM

8. This is powerful.

One of the Dems on the panel needs to read this during their time of questioning.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #8)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:00 AM

20. The KGOP republicans need to suspend the hearing and get FBI to investigate

Nothing less will do.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 10:53 AM

9. None of this was on Kavanaugh's calendar



DURec

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #9)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:04 AM

27. I know this is a very serious story, but thanks for that laugh, I needed it :) nt

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #9)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:09 AM

35. "Beach Week" sure was

lol

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Response to Jersey Devil (Reply #35)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:36 PM

130. Yeah - his favorite time of year. Big deep sea fishing fan no doubt.

Ugh.

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #9)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:13 AM

38. Ah, but it was

He had "Beach Week" clearly written on his calendar. Now when he claims he was at beach week this document ties him to aggressive sexual activity there as well. He is now trapped in his own lies: did he commit this sexual assault or that sexual assault, or, more likely, both. This sort of behavior seemed to be so prevalent that he has no alibi because there appears to be no period when this was not going on.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 10:54 AM

11. Kavanaugh wasn't at any of those parties. Check

His calendar.

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Response to BootinUp (Reply #11)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:39 AM

69. He was with his parents, always in his choirboy suit. nt

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 10:55 AM

12. Once a Sexual Predator, ALWAYS a Sexual Predator.....


If one has not gone through therapy of any kind to address such behaviors. The attitudes remain throughout the years.

It makes me wonder how much control he has over his own wife and daughters. Did anyone notice the look on Mrs. Kavanaugh's face as she looked in subservient obedience at him during his FOX interview? He answered some questions for her, rather than hear her own words. THAT is what I mean about CONTROL.

Must be all the Psychology I took in college to notice that pattern of behavior. Not to mention all the years of Catholic guilt.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 10:55 AM

13. Julie Swetnick is the one Avenotti was talking about.

This really is breaking, Brooklynite. My first search screen on her name had two entries for this, your post and CNBC's posted 5 minutes before, headline without story yet:

Avenatti identifies Kavanaugh accuser as Washington resident Julie Swetnick, claims Supreme Court pick and pal tried to spike girls' drinks

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/26/michael-avenatti-identifies-kavanaugh-accuser-as-julie-swetnick.html


Adendum: Tweets popping up. Here's one from Avenotti.


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Response to Hortensis (Reply #13)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:56 AM

89. She is a HERO! nt

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #89)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:11 PM

111. Probably. As a security expert points out here,




Btw, holding off belief while investigative journalists gather information to assess the credibility of all this information is what sensible people who are hard to fool do.

For me, enough evidence on Brett Cavanaugh is already in, and opposing his confirmation does not require any leaps of faith at all. He's very unfit for a variety of reasons.




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Response to Hortensis (Reply #111)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:46 PM

137. Personally, I think we are way beyond the...

... investigate reporter stage and now require a full up FBI investigation. (As if we didn't from the get go.)

As far as veting goes, an experienced lawyer isn't going to take an acusation like this at face value without doing some independent checking. That might be less objective than a independent investigative journalist, but it gives some credibility above and beyond the "tipster" level.

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #137)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:52 PM

141. We should be. Itm, the fourth estate is what we have,

with real hope that responsible reporting will force FBI investigation.

Blind leaps of faith after every new allegation are just completely unnecessary, and if we keep them up, inevitably there are going to be some unpleasant landings. And we're not even being promised an afterlife in return.

Have an enjoyable day.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 10:55 AM

14. Rut Rohh..........This lady has some strong creds...........

Hope they bury this motherfucker...Remember GARLAND..

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 10:58 AM

16. Whoa! Thank you!

So is she filing a criminal complaint?

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 10:58 AM

17. But is she a Democrat?

If so, expect the entire thing to end up in the trash

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:00 AM

21. Here is the third page:

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Response to demmiblue (Reply #21)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:05 PM

101. BOOM. Jesus, Mary, and Joseph...

Items 11, 12, 13, and 14.

BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, AND BOOM.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:01 AM

22. These are very significant allegations

Mark Judge must be questioned.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:01 AM

23. Third page....

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:01 AM

24. Julie Swetnick

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:02 AM

25. Page 3 added

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #25)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:05 AM

29. OMG. Page 3 is the worst. She states she was gang raped.

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Response to PA Democrat (Reply #29)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:50 AM

84. It appears she was precise not to state that he raped her, he was "present" and helped drug them

Very careful and precise which makes it all the more credible

It may be that he had a mechanical failure of some sort or didn’t wa t to carry it out himself for whatever reason — doesn’t remove his guilt whatsoever

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Response to lostnfound (Reply #84)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:02 PM

98. She was incapacitated to the point that....

From the account she was incapacitated to the point that she would not be able to identify any one particular assalient defimitivly. But this is more than enough for conviction in the court of piblic opinion.

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #98)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 03:06 PM

178. Right, she made the implication

A: she knew girls were being drugged and gang-raped over multiple parties, and that Judge and Kavanaugh were involved
B: she was drugged and gang-raped at a party where Judge and Kavanaugh were "present" I'm not sure if by "present" she means "at the party" or "present in the room during her assault."
C: It stands to reason if J&K were in line to take a turn at other parties that they wouldn't pass up an opportunity when she was the victim, so "present" pretty much implicates them.
D: If Rs want to say "well, how can she know if Kavanaugh was one of her attackers if she was drugged out?" basically shoots themselves in the foot. It's bad enough that she experienced this, and witnessed Kavanaugh as a perpetrator on multiple occasions.

I like judicial nominees who aren't alleged rapists.

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Response to forgotmylogin (Reply #178)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 03:16 PM

179. I like judicial nominees who aren't alleged rapists....

LOL, Right On!

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:02 AM

26. More of the same. Kavanaugh is a serial sexual assaulter.

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Response to democratisphere (Reply #26)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:36 AM

66. and LIAR

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Response to vlyons (Reply #66)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:48 AM

82. ABSOLUTELY!

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:08 AM

32. sounds like her story

corroborates what Ramirez had said, if I'm not mistaken?

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #32)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:12 AM

37. +1, two different women with same story

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #32)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:19 AM

45. Not exactly corroborating specific accounts

but pretty close to it. All stories, independent of each other, reveal pretty much the same depiction of his rotten character and the way he used to behave. It just gets worse every day with him.

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #32)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:43 AM

76. No, it corroborate what Mark Judge's former girlfriend said.

He told her of one gang rape that he was involved in, claimed to her that it was consensual. Nothing is consensual when one of the partners are whacked out of Their skull by Booz or drugs.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:09 AM

34. These details sicken me.

Both Kavanaugh and Judge need to be in jail. Judge is a coward trying to hide from all this thinking it will all "blow over". If he was any sort of man, he'd come forward and admit what he did and what Kavanaugh did.

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Response to llmart (Reply #34)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:18 AM

42. Does he Plan a news conference along with submitting this document?

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Response to FloridaBlues (Reply #42)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:52 AM

87. Avenatti was just on the phone on MSNBC with Craig Melvin going over the signed...

declaration point by point. There was nothing left vague or unclear. Kavanaugh was said to have engaged in drunken sexual assault at house parties, spiked the punch at parties and target girls to get intoxicated, and participated in train rapes.

Melvin also just said that Grassley has released a statement saying he has received the declaration and is reviewing it.

Looks like it's curtains for Kavanaugh, which has a nice ring to it.

Curtains for Kavanaugh.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:10 AM

36. Well if this doesn't kill Kavanaugh's appointment, we are totally doomed.

Nothing to stop the torches and pitchforks from coming out when all seems lost anyway.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:15 AM

39. JFC! Kavanaugh and Judge are real pieces of shit, even if this is 10% true.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:16 AM

40. Here's the Deposition in text form

Last edited Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:57 AM - Edit history (1)

DECLARATION OF JULIE SWETNICK
I, JULIE SWETNTCK, declare as follows:

I. My name is Julie Swetnick and I am a resident of Washington, D.C. I fully understand the seriousness of the statements contained within this declaration. I have personal knowledge of the information stated herein and if called to testify to the same would and could do so.
2. I am a graduate of Gaithersburg High School in Gaithersburg, MD.
3. 1 presently hold the following active clearances associated · with working within the federal government: Public Trust - U.S. Department of Treasury (DOT), U.S. Mint (USM), Internal Revenue Service (IRS).
4. I have also previously held the following inactive clearances: Secret - U.S. Department of State (DOS), U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) and Public Trust - U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS), Customs and Border Protection (CBP).
5. My prior employment includes working with (a) Vietnam War Commemoration (VWC), Joint Services Providers (JSP), U.S. Department of Defense (DOD) in Arlington, Virginia; (b) U.S. Mint, U.S. Department of Treasury; (c) U.S. Internal Revenue Service (IRS), U.S. Department of Treasury; (d) Government Affairs and Communications Department, D.C. Department of General Services (DGS), Government of the District of Columbia (DC.Gov); (e) Customs and Border Protection (CBP), U.S. Department of Homeland Security; and (d) the U.S. Department of State (DOS). I was also one of the first 100 women in the world to achieve a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineering Certification (MCSE).

6. I first met Mark Judge and Brett Kavanaugh in approximately 1980-1981. I was introduced to them at a house party that I attended in the Washington, D.C. area. I observed Mark Judge and Brett Kavanaugh as extremely close friends during the early 1980s when I knew them and interacted with them. I would describe them as "joined at the hip" and I consistently saw them together in many social settings. There is no question in my mind that Mark Judge has significant information concerning the conduct of Brett Kavanaugh during the 1980s, especially as it relates to his actions toward women.

7. Following that first introduction, I attended well over ten house parties in the Washington, D.C. area during the years 1981-1983 where Mark Judge and Brett Kavanaugh were present. These parties were a common occurrence in the area and occurred nearly every weekend during the school year. On numerous occasions at these parties, I witnessed Mark Judge and Brett Kavanaugh drink excessively and engage in highly inappropriate conduct, including being overly aggressive with girls and not taking "No" for an answer. This conduct included the fondling and grabbing of girls without their consent.
8. I observed Brett Kavanaugh drink excessively at many of these parties and engage in abusive and physically aggressive behavior toward girls, including pressing girls against him without their consent, "grinding" against girls, and attempting to remove or shift girls' clothing to expose private body parts. I likewise observed him be verbally abusive towards girls by making crude sexual comments to them that were designed to demean, humiliate and embarrass them. I often witnessed Brett Kavanaugh speak in a demeaning manner about girls in general as well as specific girls by name. I also witnessed Brett Kavanaugh behave as a "mean drunk" on many occasions at these parties.

9. I have been told by other women that this conduct also occurred during the Summer months in Ocean City, Maryland on numerous occasions. I also witnessed such conduct on one occasion in Ocean City, Maryland during "Beach Week."
10. I have reviewed Brett Kavanaugh's recent claim on Fox News regarding his alleged "innocence" during his high school years and lack of sexual activity. This is absolutely false and a lie. I witnessed Brett Kavanaugh consistently engage in excessive drinking and inappropriate contact of a sexual nature with women during the early 1980s.

11. During the years 1981-82, I became aware of efforts by Mark Judge, Brett Kavanaugh and others to "spike" the "punch" at house parties I attended with drugs and/or grain alcohol so as to cause girls to lose their inhibitions and their ability to say "No." This caused me to make an effort to purposely avoid the "punch" at these parties. I witnessed efforts by Mark Judge, Brett Kavanaugh and others to "target" particular girls so they could be taken advantage of; it was usually a girl that was especially vulnerable because she was alone at the party or shy.

12. I also witnessed efforts by Mark Judge, Brett Kavanaugh and others to cause girls to become inebriated and disoriented so they could then be "gang raped" in a side room or bedroom by a “train" of numerous boys. I have a firm recollection of seeing 11 boys lined up outside rooms at many of these parties waiting for their "turn" with a girl inside the room. These boys included Mark Judge and Brett Kavanaugh.

13. In approximately 1982, I became the victim of one of these "gang" or "train" rapes where Mark Judge and Brett Kavanaugh were present. Shortly after the incident, I shared what had transpired with at least two other people. During the incident, I was incapacitated without my consent and unable to fight off the boys raping me. I believe I was drugged using Quaaludes or something similar placed in what I was drinking.

14. I am aware of other witnesses that can attest to the truthfulness of each of the statements above.
I declare, under penalty of perjury and under the laws of the United States of America, that the foregoing is true and correct. I have executed this declaration on 22 September 25, 2018.

(signed)
Julie Swetnick

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #40)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:05 PM

100. Thanks, that is big help for this old gur who is not too computer literate.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:18 AM

41. Major news outlets are slow to pick up this story

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Response to major debacle (Reply #41)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:26 AM

50. I did find 4chan. They're outpacing us in # of posts,

and in vile sex comments. Both fine.

News outlets have to examine this before running. Avenotti and Ms. Swetnick aren't exactly as precise as the other claimants. These are big, wide-ranging claims. She saw guys lined up in a train at party after party? Didn't they run through the stock of available victims at some point? Didn't girls leave or run to call their dads in a panic when these guys showed up?

Maybe every word is basically true, but caution is obviously advised. If she saw all this over time, dozens of students from various schools should have also.

Otoh, as this points out:


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Response to major debacle (Reply #41)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:48 AM

81. Not any more. Your link show multiple news sources picking this up bigly. Why the doubt?

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:18 AM

43. Evil Vile

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:20 AM

46. This is a Declaration....not a Deposition.

Lists no legal entity she was under oath to...for there to be a threat of perjury.
It appears this is her declaration to Avenatti, or his secretary maybe.

I don't see this triggering an F.B.I intervention as it's still a she said he said matter.

I don't see MSNBC or CNN even running with Avenatti's tweet.

Anyone can make a Declaration.....I'm begging for caution here.

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #46)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:27 AM

53. "begging for caution" WTF??

This is huge dude!

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #46)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:29 AM

57. LA times already has it.

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Response to triron (Reply #57)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:38 AM

67. A lot of places have it...it's a tweet.

My point stands.

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #67)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:58 AM

93. As does your previous allegation that all of Kavanuagh's information was available

, alleging Schindler's "sketchy, Weiner-like stuff", or the pretense that Kavanugh's gambling debts are equivalent to Pres. Clinton's legal bills.

Sketchy. Shifty. But soon, righteously rationalized.


The narrative of a 'bean-can" indeed.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #93)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:08 PM

105. "..allegation that all of Kavanuagh's information was available"

I NEVER have made any such allegation.
My comments on "information" were with regards to his Judicial decisions ONLY.

You can't substantiate your false claim as to what I said.

Gambling debts....still an unproven claim made in that thread.

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #46)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:39 AM

70. she cites there are others who could corroborate nt

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Response to Grasswire2 (Reply #70)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:51 AM

86. I read it before I made my 1st post....doesn't change my initial point.

I'm in NO way judging her veracity...ONLY that this is a Declaration to her lawyer...NOT a deposition under oath.

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Response to Grasswire2 (Reply #70)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:13 PM

112. I believe her BUT it opens up one major question

If this happened with so many people there should be more witnesses.

Understand the has them.

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #46)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:50 AM

85. Sworn decleration...the media will catch up...begging for caution is...strange.

You see what you want to see...I see more blood in the water, as do almost everyone at DU. Almost everyone!

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #85)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:01 PM

96. "sworn"..before whom? Avenatti?

Has Avenatti submitted this to the F.B.I or the Marland LEO's or just tweet blasted it?

I don't just swallow everthing Avenatti tweets.
Sorry I just don't.

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #96)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:07 PM

103. Commissioner for Oaths? A notary? I imagine Aventti knows a few. I trust the lawyer to get

a small detail right!!

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #103)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:09 PM

107. That's not shown on the Declaration though is it?

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #107)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:18 PM

115. You discovered a top lawyer forgot to get an AFFADAVIT signed, witnessed and sworn?

That really is a huge mistake invalidating all the claims!

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #115)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:31 PM

127. What top lawyer? As i said above..I don't swallow Anenatti's tweets.

It's a declaration....not a sworn affidavit.
I am NOT questioning her veracity as i said above.
There's no Notary stamp on it, no witness signature on it, and intentionally so.
Has it been submitted to ANY Law enforcement agency as a sworn statement?
Avenatti didn't say so when he called into MSNBC.

She should be ready to be called to testify under oath to the Judiciary cmt.
That's when it will become "sworn" to.

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #127)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:37 PM

131. Under 28 USC Sec 1746 it is Equivalent to an Affidavit

she can be charged with perjury for any material false statements

When I file in state court I file an Affidavit-when I file in Federal Court I file a Declaration without the necessity of a Notary Public

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/1746

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Response to Stallion (Reply #131)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:47 PM

139. IF..making the Declaration is to, oh say.. Congress...yep

She will not be charged with perjury making a Declaration to her LAWYER if they aren't true. As far as I can find...that's all we have so far.

If Avenatti submits that to the Judiciary Cmt...and her declarations are found to be untruthful...whole different ballgame.

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #139)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 01:13 PM

154. Not necessarily


Because at that point we come to 18 USC 1001 and just what is the status of a volunteer submission not requested or required by the committee.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #154)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 01:34 PM

163. What is the "status".....of the Declaration she gave Avenatti?

Does a tweet with pics of a Declaration count?
Did he submit the Declaration to the Committee?

Maybe I missed a report of him offering it officially.

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #163)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 01:43 PM

167. I dunno


I always assume there might be something I missed as well, but, yes, if it is just a "declaration into the void", then the perjury invocation is just a way of saying "I'm serious." One could do a press release, an open letter, etc., but the implication here is that she would so testify if actually under a duty of truthfulness.

Like I said, we don't have a formal way to make oathlike public declarations. Of course, if we did, then things would certainly get entertaining.

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #107)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:29 PM

126. Speaking as someone who was a notary for years -

There is no requirement that the notarization be on the signature page of the document, sometimes it's a completely separate page. The notary is simply applying their seal that they saw the person sign the document and verified that persons identity by following certain criteria.

A notarized document where the signer states they are making the statements under penalty of perjury would be admissible in court and the person would be subject to charges of perjury should the statements be found to be intentionally false.

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Response to ET Awful (Reply #126)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:33 PM

128. Here in NY..I have to have my Notary stamp to the immediate right

below the persons signature line.

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #128)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:55 PM

143. You may do that, but the law does not require it.

When a document requires a formal acknowledgement of a signer’s intention to sign, the New York notary acknowledgement form must be included or attached to it. The purpose of the acknowledgement is for a notary public to verify the signer’s identity and their willingness to sign the document. If the notary is satisfied with the signer’s testimony, they will fill out the notary acknowledgement form, thus providing their official notarization. For a notary acknowledgement, the signer does not need to sign their document in front of a notary public in order for notarization be obtained. Furthermore, in New York, the notary public is not required to provide a seal or stamp, as long as they do supply their signature, the name of their licensing county, and their commission expiry date.

Laws – §309, §137

Notary Public License Law - https://www.dos.ny.gov/licensing/lawbooks/notary.pdf

Technically, under New York law, you don't even need the seal, and the notary acknowledgment can be on a separate page.

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Response to ET Awful (Reply #143)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 01:12 PM

153. The notarial thing is a red herring


The only thing a notary does is to attest that the person signing is that person.

It doesn't add any more "oomph" to an invocation of the penalty of perjury to a document which is not actually required by law or regulation, or submitted as evidence in a legal proceeding.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #153)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 01:26 PM

160. I already stated that . . . maybe not as clearly.

Perhaps it would better if I'd said that it would be more easily admissible in court were the signer not personally present to testify that they signed it.

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Response to ET Awful (Reply #143)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 01:14 PM

155. I know. Not disputing it.

The point is this is ONLY a Declaration to Avenatti, where there is no threat of a perjury issue.

I hope it's true that he forwarded it to the Committee so All the lawyers(from both sides) can parse it.

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #155)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 01:30 PM

161. It doesn't matter who she made the declaration to. The fact that she signed it and stated that she

made the statements under penalty of perjury are sufficient. Under Federal law, the following would apply, and every state I've worked in has similar laws:

28 U.S. Code § 1746 - Unsworn declarations under penalty of per­jury
US Code
Notes
Authorities (CFR)
prev | next
Wherever, under any law of the United States or under any rule, regulation, order, or requirement made pursuant to law, any matter is required or permitted to be supported, evidenced, established, or proved by the sworn declaration, verification, certificate, statement, oath, or affidavit, in writing of the person making the same (other than a deposition, or an oath of office, or an oath required to be taken before a specified official other than a notary public), such matter may, with like force and effect, be supported, evidenced, established, or proved by the unsworn declaration, certificate, verification, or statement, in writing of such person which is subscribed by him, as true under penalty of perjury, and dated, in substantially the following form:

(1) If executed without the United States: “I declare (or certify, verify, or state) under penalty of perjury under the laws of the United States of America that the foregoing is true and correct. Executed on (date).
(Signature)”.

(2) If executed within the United States, its territories, possessions, or commonwealths: “I declare (or certify, verify, or state) under penalty of perjury that the foregoing is true and correct. Executed on (date).
(Signature)”.

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Response to ET Awful (Reply #161)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 01:43 PM

166. I refer you to jberryhill's post....re: you claim

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #166)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 01:53 PM

170. That is irrelevant.

Any statement made where a person signs a document saying they are making the statement under penalty of perjury carries the legal weight as if they made the statement in court under oath and carries the same penalties should the statements be made falsely.

You can sit her and try to play concerned party all you like, but a statement made under penalty of perjury can result in charges of perjury if the statement is known to be false when made.

Want to know how I know this? The cases in which I've encountered such problems are from many years ago, but I've had many opposing parties sanctioned for making false statements in declarations in exactly the same format as this.

This declaration is a very standard format and is used literally thousands up on thousands of times every day.

You attempting to say "well it's not currently in a court of law" doesn't remove the weight of the statement being made under penalty of perjury. Once made, that statement can be presented in any legal proceeding and carries the same weight as if made under oath in that proceeding.

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Response to ET Awful (Reply #170)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 02:47 PM

176. You're missing the point

While, again, I don't doubt the veracity of this declaration, your point here is not relevant:

"I've had many opposing parties sanctioned..."

Yes indeed. In proceedings where those statements were of record, and in a court which had the jurisdiction to do so.

If we had an open-ended perjury mechanism, then people would insist on it all of the time. Why not make every politician do it verbally each time they give a speech?

Because absent an actual proceeding in which the statement is relevant, merely going about in public saying "...and I say this under penalty of perjury" is of no consequence whatsoever. If I say to you, right now, "I declare under penalty of perjury that the sky is green and the grass is blue" S/JBERRYHILL/, then, as they say in Ghostbusters, "Who ya gonna call?" There is no free range fraud squad where you ring them up and say, "I'd like to report a perjury!" and they send out the team to make an arrest.

That's the whole point of the "proceeding" qualifier in the statute elsewhere in this thread. It is not a crime for me to lie to you, even if I say I'm doing it under oath. It IS a crime to lie to a tribunal - whether judicial, administrative or legislative - under oath or affirmation under penalty of perjury. I simply cannot, as between private parties (and absent some form of fraud) create a duty under perjury out of thin air.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #176)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 03:41 PM

182. Ummm. . . no.

The declarations were not part of a proceeding at the time. They became part of a proceeding later and they were deemed admissible and the parties were sanctioned for perjury.

I'm going to presume you haven't handled many real legal proceedings.

For instance, if there is no current legal action, and in the interest of preserving witness testimony, a witness signs a statement under penalty of perjury that they saw xxx do yyy to zzzz, that statement IS admissible in the future and can result in a charge of perjury if the statement is false.

You are attempting to make statements based on . . . well nothing really.

You are trying to come up with some kind if ridiculous argument why a declaration by an individual and made under penalty of perjury is somehow an imperfect declaration and is not held to the same standard as any other legally binding statement. That is inaccurate and demonstrably so.

Clearest example I can give? Prior to any action being initiated, a clerk for an opposing attorney executed a statement under penalty of perjury that they had personally delivered documents to x, y and z. Eighteen months later, this was found to be untrue. This resulted in sanctions, and ultimately the loss of the case due to the perjurious statement since no proof existed other than this statement that the documents in question had been delivered.

You can keep making your arguments all you like, I'll go by actual experience in the legal field in multiple state and federal cases up to and including cases presented to the USSC.

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Response to ET Awful (Reply #182)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 04:06 PM

183. " I'm going to presume you haven't handled many real legal proceedings. "

That's an incorrect assumption.

"The declarations were not part of a proceeding at the time. They became part of a proceeding later..."

Identify the proceeding relevant to this declaration.

"in multiple state and federal cases up to and including cases presented to the USSC..."

...and you will continue to miss the point that this document is not submitted in any proceeding.

Furthermore, you seem to have completely missed where I specifically mentioned fraud, which is relevant to the circumstance which you seem to believe applies to any and all statements generally.

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Response to ET Awful (Reply #182)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 04:14 PM

184. To be more specific.....


Prior to any action being initiated, a clerk for an opposing attorney executed a statement under penalty of perjury that they had personally delivered documents to x, y and z. Eighteen months later, this was found to be untrue. This resulted in sanctions, and ultimately the loss of the case due to the perjurious statement since no proof existed other than this statement that the documents in question had been delivered.

While you leave out a lot of detail about how this statement came into evidence, it sounds as if you are saying that the other side was relying on this statement in litigation as proof that it was delivered. That is, they had introduced the statement as evidence of delivery, correct?

There is no lawsuit here. Nobody is relying on this statement as evidence in a suit of anything.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #184)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 04:15 PM

185. You are being intentionally obtuse and you know it.

In the example I gave, as with the current situation, there was no action at the time the declaration was made.

This did NOT decrease the value or impact of the declaration. Keep reaching.

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Response to ET Awful (Reply #185)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 04:29 PM

188. No, I'm not


There is a certain kind of mindset which is so convinced it is correct that it cannot fathom that someone might disagree, and hence must resort to accusations of bad faith.

I'm sorry you feel the need to make personal accusations on the basis of a simple and quite inconsequential disagreement.

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Response to ET Awful (Reply #185)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 05:08 PM

189. "This did NOT decrease the value or impact of the declaration."

You are correct with that statement......BUT that doesn't mean it has legal weight.
If Avenatti want's it to become a LEA issue...file it in the jurisdiction that can prosecute. With the F.B.I. They won't touch it as it's not Federal but it would show a resolve...belief in the allegation.

Political impact....sure. It will make Anti-Kavs more anti...will make Pro-Kavs more pro....other than that...squat.

Avenatti's tweet isn't going to move the middle..not that it matters.
This is a Senate issue at this point.

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #46)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:57 AM

91. It's being covered extensively on MSNBC right now. And the accuser signed the declaration...

under penalty of perjury. Avenatti was on the phone describing that he disclosed this days ago to Grassley with no response on Sunday, Monday and Tuesday so he had to reveal it today so that it wasn't completely ignored by the repugs.

Avenatti comes through again, despite all the DU naysayers put downs or him.

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #46)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:59 AM

94. when a deposition is taken, who is the legal entity the deposed is under oath to?

no judge need be present.
This could be construed as Avenatti deposing his own client under oath, no?

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #46)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:17 PM

114. Nope-I'm a Federal Litigator and there is a Statute Authorizing Declarations Instead of Affidavit

this is clearly a valid declaration with the same force as an Affidavit

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/1746

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Response to Stallion (Reply #114)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:20 PM

118. Having the fake issue now thoroughly debunked...will there be any mea culpas?

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Response to Stallion (Reply #114)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:48 PM

140. Just as a minor technical nit


You are ignoring the entire premise of that statute - "Wherever, under any law of the United States or under any rule, regulation, order, or requirement made pursuant to law, any matter is required or permitted to be supported, evidenced, established, or proved by the sworn declaration, verification, certificate, statement, oath, or affidavit..."

The point of that statute is that anything which is REQUIRED or PERMITTED in a legal proceeding or pursuant to some statutory or regulatory requirement, to be supported by an oath or affidavit, can be done by a declaration expressly stating it is made under the penalty of perjury.

This is a statement that is not being made in any court proceeding or pursuant to any law, rule or regulation.

I don't doubt the veracity of the statement at all, but there is no particular entity which would have standing to prosecute a perjury charge here.

That said, do people use statements like this for various reasons all of the time? Yep, they do. I use statements of this form in ADR proceedings where there really is no practical way that it would ever be an issue. At the end of the day, it is more of a precatory thing, because people will in general respect the "formality" of signing something for a lawyer which contains such a statement. But if push comes to shove, there is no real consequence to it.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #140)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:59 PM

148. "This is a statement that is not being made in any court proceeding or pursuant to any law,.."

That is not an insignificant nit...

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #148)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 01:10 PM

151. Oh, I get your point


However, at the end of the day, it's sort of like "cross my heart, hope to die, stick a needle in my eye." It adds something to the statement to the effect of "I'm really serious about this."

A better formulation would have been to send it to the committee and expressly reference 18 USC 1001. But, even there.....

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully—

(1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact;

(2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or

(3) makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry;

shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years or, if the offense involves international or domestic terrorism (as defined in section 2331), imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both. If the matter relates to an offense under chapter 109A, 109B, 110, or 117, or section 1591, then the term of imprisonment imposed under this section shall be not more than 8 years.

(b) Subsection (a) does not apply to a party to a judicial proceeding, or that party’s counsel, for statements, representations, writings or documents submitted by such party or counsel to a judge or magistrate in that proceeding.

(c) With respect to any matter within the jurisdiction of the legislative branch, subsection (a) shall apply only to—

(1) administrative matters, including a claim for payment, a matter related to the procurement of property or services, personnel or employment practices, or support services, or a document required by law, rule, or regulation to be submitted to the Congress or any office or officer within the legislative branch; or

(2) any investigation or review, conducted pursuant to the authority of any committee, subcommittee, commission or office of the Congress, consistent with applicable rules of the House or Senate.


...the question would be whether a judicial nomination committee hearing was an "investigation or review" within the meaning of (c)(2).

Which brings me back to the point that, outside of the confines of a particular proceeding, there really is no good mechanism for someone to swear something is true with any real practical impact. So, you do what you can.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:22 AM

48. Recommended.

Intense.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:26 AM

51. JFC!

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:26 AM

52. Ok. I will admit I was very skeptical of Avenetti on this

That Kavanaugh gang raped in high school and was nominated for the SCOTUS and the nomination rushed was a bit too much to believe.

This, along with his pal Judge and yearbook bragging, appears to confirm that Kavanaugh did more than mow lawns and go to church in his spare time while attending Georgetown Prep. At the least, Brett hung around with some pretty deplorable classmates and did nothing but get drunk when he found himself in situations where female students were being taken advantage of. At worst, he observed and/or participated. It does not appear she is accusing Kavanaugh of raping her, just that he was at the party and knew what was going on.

Rather than admitting under oath that along with being a student athlete he attended some rather wild teenage parties in his youth, he chose to portray himself as someone else. The outright lying to get the job of Supreme Court Justice disqualifies him.

And, when this is over, the GOP and McConnell OWN this bastard. They were willing to destroy rules and decorum of the Senate to rush this man's nomination through. Certainly they could have insisted Trump find a conservative Federalist Society anti-abortion, anti-labor, pro-corporation qualified nominee to support that did not have to lie to try to get approved. At the least, they could have voted Kavanaugh down in committee.

The GOP is now the party of Trump and Kavanaugh.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:28 AM

54. I wish her peace.



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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:28 AM

55. Well he will put all those rejecting women and thier daughters in thier rightful place once he is on

the SC.
No birth control or abortion or any choices for them.

Asshole probably heard no a lot from women when sloppy drunk in his youth and didn't like it

He is all still about demeaning and controlling women and using them as props even at the hearing from day 1
Zina Bash and her flashes to his RW base, little giggly girls in school uniforms behind him, the teenage women's basketball team, the prearranged women support letter already in hand, etc
he doth protest too much, methinks.

No wonder some folks want Avenatti to shut up and go away

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:29 AM

56. How devastating that she has to relive this. My heart goes out to her and other girls that were

victims of this madness.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:31 AM

59. holee shit

what a couple of fucking assholes

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:34 AM

61. Exactly as I had hoped... KKKavanaugh is DONE!!! Feel so bad for these and ALL women

for the trauma they've had to endure, which continues to this day, at the hands of these disgusting POS!!!

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:40 AM

71. truth will be known

If RepubliCONS continue to push for confirmation now it's straight up proof that they collectively have something to hide and/or know that his confirmation is all about saving their asses.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:40 AM

72. If this fucker don't go down...

 

...we might as well give the pukes the keys to the kingdom, it's all over. His confirmation could very well trigger an armed civil war.

P.S. Yes, it's not under penalties of perjury, but testimony to the same effect given to the Senate Judiciary Committee would be. And I don't see how Grassley (or Yertl) can turn a blind eye to this submission.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:42 AM

74. calls out Kavanaugh on lie

Several people on DU have expressed frustration over euphemisms being used instead of "lie" or "liar". Regarding Kavanaugh's claim of "innocence", Julie Swetnick states, "This claim is absolutely false and a lie."

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:44 AM

77. Gang Raped!

Couldn’t get much more serious then that.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:57 AM

90. K&R

Gang rape goes beyond the pale

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 11:57 AM

92. this is gut-wrenching

I can only imagine what she is going through, reliving this nightmare.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:00 PM

95. I hope she files charges against these assholes & puts them in jail where they belong

... also there are other girls/women who got the same treatment. Maybe more depos are coming soon!




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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:01 PM

97. Boys Being Boys, eh???

This is vile and disgusting. It's also a criminal matter.

But wait for the pushback, the fingers pointing at the witness/victim. This is what happens when privileged assholes think they can do and get away with . . . ANYTHING.

And you know why this rings true to women?

Because we've been there. Maybe not with these specific details but as young women we've experienced these humiliating, abusive, aggressive behaviors from young men who treat women like pieces of meat with no agency of our own.

And now a perpetrator, a man who has the gall to proclaim himself a 'virgin' for many years believes he is entitled to a lifelong appointment to the Supreme Court.

This is what happens when accountability and common decency is thrown out the window.

This scenario has nothing to do with consensual sex, fooling around or even groping in dark corners. This is a rape, an act of abhorrent violence against women. Doesn't matter if it occurred 30+ years ago or last week. Doesn't matter if these young men were drunk as skunks. The acts were premeditated and gross.

Reprehensible!

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:05 PM

99. Thank you brooklyn, Ms. Swetnick and Mr. Avenatti

Yesterday, I posted a comment stating annoyance with Mr. Avenatti's dominance in this forum based on "entertaining tweets". Deliver the pearl, or stfu, well, he did and I will stfu.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:08 PM

104. This is a declaration and not a depo

It is still a very powerful document

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #104)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:10 PM

108. What is difference between a declaration and a deposition?

And why would it make any difference in this case?

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #108)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:56 PM

145. There is no functional difference

A declaration is in effect an affidavit and depo is the transcript of oral testimony taken before a court reporter. This declaration is sworn to under oath and the Senate needs to pay attention to it

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #145)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:58 PM

146. Great. Thanks for explanation!

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #104)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:20 PM

117. Its the Equivalent of an Affidavit Filed in Federal Court

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Response to Stallion (Reply #117)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 01:09 PM

150. The key is that the person making the declaration is subject to perjury

This is a very powerful document

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:08 PM

106. Horrific and stomach churning

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:10 PM

110. How long before Kavanaugh withdraws from being a Supreme Court Nominee?

But how many "good christians," house freedom caucus folk, and value voters are
still OK w/Kavanaugh's drugging and raping women?

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:14 PM

113. After trump claimed he is such a good man

And then this comes out , he could have played a part in gang rapes of underage women they drugged up or illegally gave booze to , so they could gang rape them then . If he as was claimed played any part of this , he needs to be criminally charged and gone after now, and more reports of this kind of behavior will come out, some even worse maybe, and trump and the gop knew about all this and still wanted him on the court for them. Talk about a disaster for trump and the gop. This guy shouldn't even be on the bench , let alone the highest court in this country. trump and the gop have just completely screwed themselves over good this time. There goes the Senate, and all chances on keeping the House. Their credibility is around zero about now on anything they say or claim.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:18 PM

116. Wow!

Makes you wonder what constitutes a "background check" conducted by the FBI for a supreme court nominee. Sounds like the didn't have to dig deep to discover this sleazy past.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:21 PM

119. Is a Declaration the same as a Deposition? Do they carry the same weight or import?

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:23 PM

120. None of this will matter. Kavanaugh will be voted in.

Republicans as a whole said, “We don’t care what he did. We’re voting him in anyways.” Some of them don’t even think he did anything wrong, and the rest don’t care.

This is where we are now as a nation.

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Response to Oneironaut (Reply #120)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:26 PM

123. Sending some positive vibes your way.

I try to never release negative energy into the universe, being positive can cause miracles.

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Response to watoos (Reply #123)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:29 PM

125. I used to be positive. Then I realized I was constantly wrong.



I have absolutely no faith in the Republicans to do the right thing.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:28 PM

124. I am sickened

I am disgusted and disheartened at finding our Country in this place...

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:35 PM

129. I am floored that this creep doesn't have the decency to step aside. I has in HS at the exact same

time and while we drank a lot drugging and raping women was not normal activity. In fact, I went to an exclusive HS in NJ, then college and law school at the same time as Kavenaugh. Not the same schools, and I was a football jock and had I seen this behavior some heads would have been knocked around. His HS yearbook post tells you all you need to know about Kavenaugh. He was an arrogant prick who thought he could do whatever he wanted to whom ever he wanted. Mommy was a judge and I’m sure he thought he was protected

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Response to Pepsidog (Reply #129)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:43 PM

134. If you did observe people drugging and raping women multiple times would you have reported it ?

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Response to MichMan (Reply #134)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 02:20 PM

173. I would have stopped it.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:45 PM

136. Food for thought . . . .

anybody else wonder why she kept going back to these parties if she knew this was going on? I graduated in 1982. I knew back then to keep an eye on my drink even though the term "date rape drug" hadn't been invented yet. I kept a close eye on my friends, and was aware of guys getting girls inebriated in order to take advantage. If I thought that was the purpose of the party, I would leave and never go back.

I'm curious the mindset of Julie that she would attend 10 such parties.

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Response to moreland01 (Reply #136)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:54 PM

142. I wondered that also

Also witnessed women getting drugged and gang raped multiple times and never reported it to the authorities. While it has been a long time since I was 18, pretty certain I would have reported something like that and wouldn't go back to more of those parties

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:47 PM

138. This man is a creep and a criminal, along his sidekick Mark Judge.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 12:55 PM

144. But it's OK, folks, cos Brett believes in Jesus !

f*cking animal.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 01:02 PM

149. K&R!

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 01:15 PM

156. Kavanaugh is a monster...

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 01:22 PM

158. This is so disturbing. Even if not a participant, what sort of monster stands by and does

nothing?

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Response to Glimmer of Hope (Reply #158)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 01:35 PM

165. That is a very valid point.

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Response to Glimmer of Hope (Reply #158)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 01:48 PM

168. Ms. Swetnick for one


Is that some sort of a sneaky question?

The declaration states that she observed this happen many times, ultimately becoming the victim.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #168)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 01:59 PM

172. My question is not regarding Ms. Swetnick's behavior or any other women. It is the men

who stand by and do nothing! Good grief.

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Response to Glimmer of Hope (Reply #172)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 02:40 PM

175. Oh okay, I misunderstood you


Since the declaration says she saw this going on many times, I thought you were asking about her.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #175)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 06:19 PM

192. And did nothing....until this declaration to her attorney...

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Response to Glimmer of Hope (Reply #172)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 06:21 PM

193. Did she do anything prior to a declaration to her Lawyer yeterday?

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #193)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 07:32 PM

194. I think you need to take into account her experiences

And environment to understand if she did not do anything until now.

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Response to Glimmer of Hope (Reply #194)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 07:41 PM

195. No..I don't. Would you stand by and say nothing?

I wouldn't. my niece and sisters wouldn't, my Mom NEVER would have...
Not buying it Glimmer....

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #195)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 12:55 PM

202. No one would have believed her back then

and in that privileged group, no one would do anything to punish those boys.

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Response to treestar (Reply #202)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 05:16 PM

206. Then file charges in Maryland now...the metrics have changed with Me Too being a deal now

An effective deal that has taken out Many abusers.

If a complaint is filed in the jurisdiction an investigation would commence.. if there were credible claims.
We just saw that with the Cosby conviction.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 01:23 PM

159. We need a male participant to come forward

Right about now would be a good time for a man who participated in these horrible attacks on women, and who has some shred of decency and feelings of guilt, to come forward and admit what exactly what took place back then.

Of course, this probably won't happen, but it sounds like there were many boys/men who participated in these gang rapes/assaults. A decent man would come forward, admit that it was wrong, and tell the truth about what happened and whether or not Kavanaugh was one of the men who assaulted these incapacitated women.

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Response to karin_sj (Reply #159)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 01:51 PM

169. I'd settle for "I was there and saw

it happening but did nothing to stop it, even though I knew it was wrong. I just wanted to fit in, so I kept my mouth shut."

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #169)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 01:56 PM

171. Definitely!

I'm sure there were quite a few men who were there and didn't participate. They need to come forward on behalf of the victims and our country.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 01:34 PM

164. Holy Mother of God. I hope this woman's career is not over by the end of the year. nt

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 02:48 PM

177. Deposition? You mean Declaration...

There is a difference- although I am sure she will be deposed at some point....

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 03:19 PM

180. It does not say he raped anyone

This could have all been an ATTEMPT to lose his virginity. She says he and Judge groped girls and spiked the punch to enable others to rape. Even if they did not rape (more info and witnesses are needed) that's still criminal sexual abuse.

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Response to torius (Reply #180)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 04:24 PM

187. That's true...she says they spiked punch & such. And she saw them "in line" for the gang rapes.

Doesn't mean they were able to get their turn, just that they were in line.

We know Mark Judge did, because his ex gf or wife says he had told he had participated in such an event.

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Response to brooklynite (Original post)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 03:29 PM

181. Be forewarned

 

The two points I keep hearing repeatedly:

1) She is years older than Kavanaugh. Why was she going to high school parties?

2) Why did she keep going to these terrible parties and not warn or help other women?

These victim-shaming tactics need to be countered .

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Response to Laura in LA (Reply #181)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 05:42 PM

190. That's odd, I havent heard these anywhere but from you.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #190)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 05:47 PM

191. Not sure my last post showed. They're the right-wing talking points on MSNBC. NFM

 

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Response to Laura in LA (Reply #191)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 12:43 AM

199. Looks like they're trying to

blame the victim.

I can see why Dr Ford didn't tell her parents..


I just looked at the thread and there's a "correction".. Ralph Blasey is a Jr not a IV.

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Response to Cha (Reply #199)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 11:40 AM

201. GOP isnt the only one blaming her

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #201)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 01:16 PM

203. I certainly haven't heard Dems blame Ms. Swetnick. And Avenatti directly

 

answered the RW talking points about Ms. Swetnick I mentioned last night.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #190)

Wed Sep 26, 2018, 09:34 PM

197. Please see post #195.

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