On EDIT: This Manafort plea deal is (not necessarily) BAD news

Why is Mueller doing this, is what I want to know? It's the first thing he's done that doesn't make sense to me.

other than the cases in front of him, not taking down Trump.

Plus, Manafort pleading guilty just reinforces that this isn't a "witch hunt."

so, I trust he knows what he is doing

Return of seized assets. To the tune of $46 million.

Also, there is a good chance NY will pick up some state charges based on the evidence.

Finally, if Trump does pardon Manafraud, and Mueller has Trump as a co-conspirator, there is a good chance that pardon can be challenged. Yes, I know, SCOTUS and all, but still there is a chance.

It depends on whether the seized assets have been sold or paid into the Treasury or not.

If not... then a pardon actually does restore the seized assets.

Finally, if Trump does pardon Manafraud, and Mueller has Trump as a co-conspirator, there is a good chance that pardon can be challenged.

Mueller can't challenge a pardon. What he could do is report on the conflict and allow the US House to consider it for possible impeachment.

We DO NOT YET KNOW what is in the agreement. We will know once it is published.

Take this garbage thread down!

Some people just want to jump to conclusions on little information. Sad.

Cohen's allocation established a direct charge of obstruction

Manafort will have to testify in court to any charge he pleads guilty to. No 5th amendment right attachesvif you are already guilty

Trump cannot pardon state crimes.

The disappointment is that he didn't flip because that would probably have finished Trump

there seem to be reports of documents related to what is to be presented to support some media opinions that he hasn't flipped ...

but you're right in that we'll find out for sure today in court.

federal crimes then they can't be prosecuted for state crimes.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/04/schneiderman-double-jeopardy/558389/

of any Federal charges so a pardon on Federal tax evasion will not trigger double jeopardy. He can still go down for any and all State charges.

Underwood's press release links to an April 18 letter in which her predecessor, Eric Schneiderman, a prominent Trump antagonist, lays out the case for closing this loophole:

The problem arises under Article 40 of the Criminal Procedure Law. Under that law, jeopardy attaches when a defendant pleads guilty, or, if the defendant proceeds to a jury trial, the moment the jury is sworn. If any of those steps occur in a federal prosecution, then a subsequent prosecution for state crimes "based upon the same act or criminal transaction" cannot proceed, unless an exception applies. New York's law provides exceptions when a court nullifies a prior criminal proceeding (such as when an appeals court vacates a conviction), or even when a federal court overturns a federal conviction because the prosecution failed to establish an element of the crime that is not an element of the New York crime. But there is no parallel exception for when the President effectively nullifies a federal criminal prosecution via pardon.

Thus, if a federal defendant pleads guilty to a federal crime, or if a jury is sworn in a federal criminal trial against that defendant, and then the President pardons that individual, this New York statute could be invoked to argue that a subsequent state prosecution is barred. Simply put, a defendant pardoned by the President for a serious federal crime could be freed from all accountability under federal and state criminal law, even though the President has no authority under the U.S. Constitution to pardon state crimes.

https://reason.com/blog/2018/06/01/ny-attorney-general-close-the-double-jeo

I don't like Reason Magazine, but this article spells out the rule very well.

It still won't save Trump or We Manefort from state charges. Who knows what information Mueller already has on Trump.

The right to prosecute for future, campaign-related crimes. The way things are now, Manafort will have that over his head, and political speaking, Trump can't pardon Manafort for a campaign-related collusion that Trump says never happened anyway.

shows that the GOP believe they will survive the accusations of colluding with the Russians and that they continue their business (grifting) as usual.

I wouldn't read to much into DOJ investigating dems request.

So he either talks or goes to jail for obstruction.

A pardon isn't a blanket pardon for life or all crimes.

That being said, I fully expect trumfpt to pardon manifort. It will get both of them into deeper trouble.

Then the convictions would stand, but he would not have to serve out his sentences.

Even if Manafort is pardoned Mueller would still have whatever info he got from him to use against drumpf. Mueller isn't making a deal with nothing in return. People who think that haven't been paying attention to what he has done up to now.

He's already convicted. Why would a prosecutor agree to a plea deal when a jury has already said the perp is guilty? The only logical explanation seems to be that the prosecutor is getting something he/she don't already have.

believe Mueller knows what he's doing. Nothing of significance was sacrificed in this plea deal.

Also, eyes on the prize? It's not about Manafort.

a statement from Mueller's office.

What's unknown is if there is any kind of cooperation agreement.

Mueller doesn't let people off the hook without something in return.

Mueller believes Trump will pardon Manafort and he wants to get his over with.

I hope you are right.

Do you think Mueller would agree to any plea deal with an already CONVICTED Felon facing 75 years AND ADD 2 CHARGES TODAY CONSPIRACY AGAINST THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE if he wasn't getting every damn thing wants?!?

C'mon man.

We've had the rug pulled from under us too many times.

Also, one analyst I heard said that if Mueller believes Trump will pardon Manafort, he might not want to commit so many resources to a trial that is not likely to add THAT much more time to Manafort's sentence than the two he's pleading to.

But here's hoping.

He's already got a conviction. If he gets a guilty plea and does not have to use several of his best prosecutors in another trial, he may want to conserve resources. The pardon could come from Trump with or without a plea deal in this case, with or without a conviction in this case. Why risk weeks of trial and a possible (remotely possible) loss (loss would include hung jury, in my opinion)?

A guilty plea adds credibility to the entire investigation, making it publicly harder for Trump and Repugs to shut down the investigation. Mueller cannot control pardon power of president. A conviction by plea is still a conviction.

change what's going on around us is a fool's errand.

Remember Fitzmas?
It's here again. Nothing will change regardless of Mueller's findings.
It's on us, the people. If we don't get moving, vote, protest, fight - we'll just watch the destruction of our country continue.
First opportunity is in November. If we flip the House, we'll have some momentum and hope again.
Fight back - a bully backs off when we confront them - and the right are all bullies.

There is a middle ground between Mueller will solve all of the country's problems and Mueller just ended the hopes of the United States by making a plea deal with Manafort.

That middle is that Mueller likely knows what he is doing and is continuing on the path that he has been following the last 18 months, going where the evidence leads him.

I think Mueller and his team know that Trump is looking to Pardon Manafort.

I cant imagine Mueller not getting something in return. Maybe some state charge is added which he cant be pardoned for.

Just saving the trial time and money is not helping his entire investigation.

This would be a Mueller mistake if that is true. Confidence in Mueller from democrats might fall if this is the case.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/08/paul-manafort-will-likely-go-to-jail-if-trump-pardons-him-thanks-to-a-lone-holdout-juror.html

Manafort is open to charges in numerous states, including CA, IL, and NY. In the face of a presidential pardon I'm betting at least one AG would be more than happy to pick up the slack.

...he can then be compelled to testify in other trials without any fith amendment protections.

There was a time where I would be disappointed and surprised by developments like this. Now, I sort of expect it, and realize things are the same as they ever were.

Like Charlie Sheen says.... LOSING!

I keep reading posts saying once Manafort is pardoned he will be compelled to testify. That he won't be able to plead the 5th. So what?

If he doesn't want to answer a question, all he has to say is, "I don't remember. "

Sessions used that answer when he was grilled about his Russian contact. And this was less than a year after the event.

Anyone surprised?

Prediction- pleads guilty, gets a slap on the wrist, no need to pardon so he never has to testify

This should be a reminder to posters not to jump the gun, especially with doom and gloom posts. As one prosecutor just said, this is bad news for drumpf because Manafort will be giving firsthand info on a criminal (drumpf) who doesn't use email or texts that could incriminate him.

Will be after the GOP gets a good kicking in the mid-terms.

When the govt gets all your money and property. So Manafort will cooperate, so he’ll still be rich when this is finished.

He flipped. Don't doubt Bob Mueller.

Especially since Mueller is sharing his evidence with the various State AGs, who have not only Manafort in their sights, but a lot of other suspects - especially local Mobs and local corruption - on their radars to deal with that might not be looking at Federal charges.

And Manafort can't be pardoned for State crimes. So cooperating with Mueller might be a signal that he will also cooperate with them.

Haele

this is amazing news

Then why would they offer him a deal?