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Mon Sep 10, 2018, 09:06 PM

Officer could face stiffer charge for killing unarmed neighbor

By AnneClaire Stapleton, Darran Simon and Eliott C. McLaughlin, CNN
Updated 3:28 PM ET, Mon September 10, 2018

... "The grand jury will be that entity that will make the final decision in terms of the charge or charges that will come out of this case," Dallas County District Attorney Faith Johnson told reporters. "We prepare to present a thorough case to the grand jury of Dallas County, so that the right decision can be made in this case."

Amber Guyger, who is white, was off-duty when she shot Botham Shem Jean, a black man, in his apartment, police said Thursday. Guyger told police she thought she was entering her own apartment not realizing she was on the wrong floor. Upon encountering Jean, she thought her home was being burglarized and opened fire, according to police.

Botham, a 26-year-old native of St. Lucia, was unarmed. He died at a hospital ...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/10/us/dallas-police-officer-amber-guyger-arrest/index.html

73 replies, 8468 views

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Arrow 73 replies Author Time Post
Reply Officer could face stiffer charge for killing unarmed neighbor (Original post)
struggle4progress Sep 2018 OP
struggle4progress Sep 2018 #1
Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2018 #11
Cha Sep 2018 #19
pnwmom Sep 2018 #22
Cha Sep 2018 #26
pnwmom Sep 2018 #35
dixiegrrrrl Sep 2018 #73
uponit7771 Sep 2018 #59
pnwmom Sep 2018 #21
joshcryer Sep 2018 #50
Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2018 #60
pnwmom Sep 2018 #69
Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2018 #72
yardwork Sep 2018 #68
struggle4progress Sep 2018 #2
Thrill Sep 2018 #17
mythology Sep 2018 #61
Cha Sep 2018 #20
FakeNoose Sep 2018 #3
PSPS Sep 2018 #4
pnwmom Sep 2018 #23
struggle4progress Sep 2018 #66
madaboutharry Sep 2018 #5
exboyfil Sep 2018 #40
brer cat Sep 2018 #6
exboyfil Sep 2018 #41
cyndensco Sep 2018 #7
yardwork Sep 2018 #9
pnwmom Sep 2018 #24
yardwork Sep 2018 #45
joshcryer Sep 2018 #39
riverbendviewgal Sep 2018 #8
Cha Sep 2018 #28
Luz Sep 2018 #71
left-of-center2012 Sep 2018 #10
John1956PA Sep 2018 #13
Thrill Sep 2018 #16
Old Terp Sep 2018 #12
regnaD kciN Sep 2018 #14
unblock Sep 2018 #29
Horse with no Name Sep 2018 #15
kcr Sep 2018 #18
yardwork Sep 2018 #46
pnwmom Sep 2018 #25
joshcryer Sep 2018 #33
Cha Sep 2018 #34
pnwmom Sep 2018 #36
heaven05 Sep 2018 #27
exboyfil Sep 2018 #42
heaven05 Sep 2018 #58
thbobby Sep 2018 #30
onlyadream Sep 2018 #65
JI7 Sep 2018 #31
uponit7771 Sep 2018 #63
True Dough Sep 2018 #32
joshcryer Sep 2018 #37
exboyfil Sep 2018 #43
joshcryer Sep 2018 #44
Cha Sep 2018 #48
joshcryer Sep 2018 #51
Cha Sep 2018 #52
joshcryer Sep 2018 #55
exboyfil Sep 2018 #53
Cha Sep 2018 #54
phleshdef Sep 2018 #38
DeminPennswoods Sep 2018 #47
Cha Sep 2018 #49
betsuni Sep 2018 #56
uponit7771 Sep 2018 #62
csziggy Sep 2018 #67
Lee-Lee Sep 2018 #57
uponit7771 Sep 2018 #64
Lee-Lee Sep 2018 #70

Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 09:08 PM

1. Officer who killed neighbor in wrong apartment said he ignored her commands

... Jean family attorneys, including Benjamin Crump, and local politicians rallied against the Dallas Police Department for failing to make a timely arrest in the case. "You or I would be arrested if we went to the wrong apartment and blow a hole in a person's chest, killing them," said Crump ...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/botham-jean-shooting-dallas-police-officer-amber-guyger-says-victim-ignored-commands-2018-09-10/

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 10:11 PM

11. She probably did not identify herself as a police officer (uniform does not count in the dark). Plus


Plus (I read) two witnesses heard her knocking and shouting to open the door, indicating she knew someone was inside and knew her key didn't work and that she lied when she said the door was "open".

Plus she did not notice or ignored the bright red smack-your-eye mat at his door.

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #11)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:01 AM

19. The 2nd tweet here has that report..





How weird, though... "yelling to "open door!" when you think it's your apt?

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Response to Cha (Reply #19)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:29 AM

22. I know! Who would do that????

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #22)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:38 AM

26. This and every other clue keeps me thinking

she'd been drinking.

Of course I could be wrong.. and she's like that stone cold sober.

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Response to Cha (Reply #26)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 01:13 AM

35. That's what I think too. Some kind of substance was involved. n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #35)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 10:59 PM

73. they said they ran "tests" for substances.


what kind of tests I dunno.

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Response to Cha (Reply #19)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 09:42 AM

59. +1, " "yelling to "open door!" when you think it's your apt? " The witness's are going to sink her

... defense.

If she thought it was her place why ask the door to be opened ?!

Anything following that is going to be 100% stupid

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #11)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:28 AM

21. If she couldn't see him how could she know he was ignoring her commands?

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #21)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:29 AM

50. Good question.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #21)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 09:43 AM

60. Prob dark but light enough to see another person moving.


She obviously saw him enough to kill him.

She may have said "Stop right there", believing her uniform was enough to command respect, especially from dark skin people. The guy might have moved forward or sideways or even backwards, since it was his apartment and she had probably not identified herself.

Probably trained to not say "Stop or I'll shoot" on the training theory that give time for another person to shoot, but I'm just speculating on that bit.

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #60)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 11:37 AM

69. In other words, she's lying. In a whole bunch of different ways.

Her story doesn't fit together.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #69)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:27 PM

72. Seems that way. Hard to square it any other way. . . . nt

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #21)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 11:27 AM

68. My thought as well. She wants it both ways.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 09:10 PM

2. Prosecutor says murder charge possible


By DAVID BOROFF and KATE FELDMAN
| NEW YORK DAILY NEWS |
SEP 10, 2018 | 4:25 PM

The Dallas County district attorney said Monday that her office will consider stronger charges — including murder — against a police officer who shot and killed her neighbor after entering his apartment.

Faith Johnson said she will present a “full case” to the grand jury against Amber Guyger, the Dallas cop who killed 26-year-old Botham Jean Thursday night, so the panel can weigh “all aspects” of the case ...

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ny-news-amber-guyger-wrong-level-garage-20180910-story.html

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #2)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 11:48 PM

17. Should have already been charged with Murder

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Response to Thrill (Reply #17)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 09:51 AM

61. At this point there isn't evidence that this was premeditated

 

Manslaughter is the right charge with the information known.

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #2)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:24 AM

20. Thank you for this update, struggle. It's

so fishy.. especially now that she's trying to wiggle out of it with seemingly lies.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 09:19 PM

3. So how come her key worked in the guy's front door?

This is very puzzling and it sounds like someone is lying.

Just sayin'



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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #3)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 09:31 PM

4. He may have left it unlocked.

I wonder if Dallas keeps an audit trail of when anyone looks up a citizen in their databases.

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Response to PSPS (Reply #4)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:31 AM

23. Why did she yell at him to open the door if it was open?

Why did she yell at anyone to open the door if she thought she was standing outside her own apartment?

If she used her key to get in, as she said, why did she yell anyone inside to open the door?

Nothing she said makes sense.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #23)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 10:55 AM

66. Because she didn't know yet that she was later going to tell police the door was open

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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #3)


Response to madaboutharry (Reply #5)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 02:47 AM

40. Yes and I bet they will go

Into overdrive to impeach the ear witnesses who heard her call to open door.

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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #3)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 09:33 PM

6. According to the article

the door was ajar.

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Response to brer cat (Reply #6)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 02:49 AM

41. She said it was

I would not take her word for anything.

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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #3)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 09:43 PM

7. Well, we know who is NOT lying

Botham Jean.

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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #3)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 10:01 PM

9. The arrest affidavit states that the door was unlocked and slightly open.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #9)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:32 AM

24. Then why would she order him to open the door?

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #24)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 03:47 AM

45. Good question. Her story raises other questions as well.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #9)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 02:36 AM

39. The door was "open" is a damned lie.

I hope the door lock has a 'memory' and can tell when the door was locked at what times.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 09:52 PM

8. Let me tell you how I was in the wrong resort room

My husband and I were on vacation. After a night of dining and drinking we went to our room. We used the room key to unlock the door and walked in. Instantly we realized it was not our room. None of our stuff was in it. We got out and realized our room was one floor up. Luckily the room true occupiers were not in the ròom. Now it occurs to me that there could have been a different ending.

I cannot sympathize with the police officer firing her gun. I hope she gets true justice.

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #8)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:44 AM

28. It does seem like your hotel key shouldn't

have been able to open someone else's room in the hotel!

I've been drunk back in the day and it feels like something I would have done with the wrong apt. But, I would have ended up embarrassed. Which is what should have happened instead of the tragic murder of Bo Jean

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #8)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 11:56 AM

71. Happened to me once. My husband checked in before I arrived.

He gave me the key, but I went to the wrong door, and got inside. I was using the toilet when I saw shoes and suitcases that were not ours. Lucky for everyone that the room was empty. Never trust hotel room keys.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 10:09 PM

10. Somewhere I heard ...

Her apartment is on the 1st floor,
and his on the 4th floor?

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Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #10)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 10:16 PM

13. According to CNN, Botham Jean lived on the fourth floor, and Amber Guyger lived directly beneath him

From https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/10/us/dallas-police-officer-amber-guyger-arrest/index.html :

The fatal shooting happened Thursday night at the South Side Flats in Dallas, where both Jean and Guyger lived. Guyger's apartment is directly beneath Jean's.



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Response to John1956PA (Reply #13)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 11:48 PM

16. So she wasn't even on the right floor? Unreal

She’s a murderer

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 10:13 PM

12. If they do not punish her to the max they are guilty

As a seventy one year old white woman, I'm sick of this. This is so out of bounds.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 11:25 PM

14. Sadly, I bet she walks...

All she needs to do is come up with an account (as she has) that doesn’t have her knowingly killing an unarmed man, and she’ll get the benefit of the doubt: “if I came home — even if it turned out to be the wrong place — and found a guy inside in the dark, I sure as hell would shoot first and ask questions later!” will be the mantra of every single white juror, diplomatically not mentioning that that would be especially true for a white woman facing a black man.

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Response to regnaD kciN (Reply #14)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:45 AM

29. Intent may be an issue for a murder charge. But manslaughter seems obvious

Jurors give the police a free pass in nearly any on-duty situation, especially arrest situations.

But an off-duty cop killing someone in a situation that was undeniably 100% a mistaken creation of the cop?

I think this is one of the few cases in which the cop actually goes to prison, albeit for a crime less than murder....

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 11:41 PM

15. The thing that stands out to me

He had a distinctive red porch mat.
Unless she has that exact same mat, her story doesn’t hold water.

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Response to Horse with no Name (Reply #15)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 11:58 PM

18. Another thing I noticed

Was she claimed she had to go out and look at the room number on the outside to check to see if she was in her own apartment when she was calling the incident in. Seriously? Now, at first I was thinking the story was plausible, though I still supported a manslaughter charge. But now? I don't know what the hell was going on there, but her story is fishy as hell.

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Response to kcr (Reply #18)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 03:51 AM

46. I am very interested to hear the results of her alcohol and drug test.

If she was drunk while in uniform when she shot a man in his own apartment...

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:34 AM

25. If she thought the door to her own apartment was ajar, and someone was in there,

then she should have gotten away and immediately called for back-up.

Not gone inside and killed the intruder.

Open and shut case. I've decided. They couldn't put me on that jury!

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #25)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 01:05 AM

33. Yeah, she's 100% lying about how it went down, too.

People heard her loudly yell "open the door!" so there is a major discrepancy there. She obviously chose the order of events which would give her the best case, and it's because she was allowed to be free for days to get her story together.

The way they're saying she parked on a different floor of the parking garage makes it sound like she got more reasonably confused about which floor she was on, and the fact that she claims the door was ajar (which I doubt it was) makes it even more suspicious.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #25)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 01:12 AM

34. And, then there's the reports from witnesses that

Amber was knocking on the door and yelling "open the door!".. so.. conflicting reports abound.




Bo Jean

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Response to Cha (Reply #34)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 01:15 AM

36. Her stories make no sense. None of them. nt

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:41 AM

27. murder, pure and simple

 

and on and on the genocidal rampage continues. 350 years and it goes on and on. I hope she ends up in prison for life.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #27)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 02:51 AM

42. I thought manslaughter

Until she came up with this BS story. Now I don't know. It is obvious the Rangers are serving as defense investigators.

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #42)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 09:06 AM

58. still researching TR's

 

but given it's the Texas Rangers, well I would expect nothing less than obfuscation and out and out lies. They do watch each other's back in cases such as this with the victim being unarmed innocent and AA. 99.9% of the time.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:48 AM

30. Just doesn't make sense

there is more to this story. A personal vendetta? I am not sure what is missing, but there is an unknown angle to this.

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Response to thbobby (Reply #30)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 10:50 AM

65. Very possible

I read that she was one floor below him. So maybe he was noisy walking around at night, or something. Not that that is any excuse to ever kill anyone! I had a guy live below me who went into a fit because I used a treadmill during the day while he was home.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:49 AM

31. it will come down to whether they can get a Racist Jury

if they can get a racist jury like with george zimmerman they will refuse to convict someone for killing a black person.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #31)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 09:55 AM

63. If this was in Dallas city proper they're most likely NOT going to get a racist jury. They would

... probably request the case be moved to another court.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 12:54 AM

32. This story enrages me

A life is needlessly lost due to reckless use of a firearm by a police officer. The days of letting the cop walk away have to be behind us.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 01:15 AM

37. I have never seen an afidavit that used the criminals side of the story...

...for its alleged facts. What the fuck.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #37)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 02:53 AM

43. Reads like a defense brief

So who will step up as an advocate for the dead man.

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #43)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 03:07 AM

44. She will almost certainly get off.

The way they're handling this it's like she's the poor overworked victim of her circumstances.

Wouldn't be shocked if she gets reinstated and is back on the street in a year.

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #43)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:26 AM

48. The prosecutor(DA Faith Johnson) is standing up for Bo Jean and his

wonderful family from the Caribbean Island of St Lucia.

Prosecutor suggests stronger charge against Dallas officer who killed neighbor

Dallas County District Attorney Faith Johnson also said any notion of preferential treatment for officer Amber Guyger was separate from her office.

snip//

That was totally their call, that was totally their responsibility, that was totally their lead," Johnson said at a news conference about how investigators first handled the case. "I cannot dictate to the Texas Rangers the process, the investigation, what they do and what they don't do."

She added that she had a "spirited conversation" with the Texas Rangers for two hours on Sunday about the manslaughter charge.

More..
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/prosecutor-suggests-stronger-charge-against-dallas-officer-who-killed-neighbor-n908156

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Response to Cha (Reply #48)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:30 AM

51. Not so fast, a stronger charge could wind up with her walking.

You can't be charged twice for the same crime.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #51)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 05:12 AM

52. That's right! omg. I just found these articles..

It does look like a cover up between Guyger and the Officials..

Botham Jean's door was unlocked, lights were off when Officer Amber Guyger mistook his apartment for hers, official says

snip//

The Dallas police officer who killed 26-year-old Botham Jean in his own apartment got inside because the door wasn’t locked, a law enforcement official said Sunday.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/dallas-police/2018/09/09/botham-jeans-door-unlocked-amber-guyger-mistook-apartment-official-says

So.. the police are going with a different story than the witnesses. Killed because she "came off a 15 hour shift" and "he left his door unlocked and she didn't notice the RED DOORMAT."

Family disputes official account of the moments before Amber Guyger shot Botham Jean

snip//

One attorney, Lee Merritt, said two independent witnesses had come forward to say they heard knocking on the door in the hallway before the shooting. Merritt said one witness reported hearing a woman's voice saying, "Let me in, let me in." Then they heard gunshots, he said.

Lawyers for Jean's family disputed the narrative in the arrest warrant affidavit at a news conference streamed live by WFAA-TV (Channel 8) Monday evening, saying Jean was a meticulous man who wouldn't have neglected to close and lock his door.

After the gunshots, one of the witnesses reported hearing what she thought was a man's voice saying, "Oh my God, why did you do that," Merritt said.

This affidavit is very self-serving," said lawyer Benjamin Crump, who is also representing the family. "Botham Jean is not here to give his version of what happened because he's dead."


More..
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/dallas-police/2018/09/10/affidavit-amber-guyger-says-saw-silhouette-heading-dark-apartment-shot-silhouette-after-commands-ignored

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Response to Cha (Reply #52)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 05:52 AM

55. Yep, the affidavit is *very* self-serving.

It reads like a defense not a charge.

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Response to Cha (Reply #48)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 05:33 AM

53. Maybe as a negotiating tool to use

The murder charge, but unless some other information comes out, the manslaughter charge seems the most appropriate. Overcharging will lead to aquital.

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #53)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 05:43 AM

54. Right.. Josh Cryer just

informed me of that.

It's such a heartbreaking random act of gun violence by cop.. they all are, of course.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 01:23 AM

38. My money is still her being high as hell on something.

 

Either its that or something much, much darker.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:09 AM

47. This is an upscale apt complex

Link: https://www.southsideflatsapts.com/

I'll bet there are security cameras everywhere.

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Response to DeminPennswoods (Reply #47)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:28 AM

49. Right.. there should most definitely be.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 06:05 AM

56. If the door was locked and she pounded on it and demanded to be let in,

either someone was staying in her apartment and she expected them to open the door or she wanted the burglar she thought was inside who had changed the locks to open the door. Jean opens the door. If it was unlocked and she looked inside and saw a silhouette (to see a silhouette there must be some light, either a window or a light on in a bedroom), the reaction was the same and that's why she shot him. SURPRISE BIG DARK MAN DANGER DANGER DANGER GUN DRUGS WEAPONS BIG DARK MAN BANG BANG.

This is my theory.

Apparently he was in his underwear, which I had assumed. Like that famous guy whose neighbor called the cops on him thinking he broke into his own house and he opened the door in his underwear to cops with guns drawn and they didn't put the guns down until one of the cops recognized him. What do I know, maybe most burglars strip down to their underwear when they are robbing. Don't want to get their clothes sweaty.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #56)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 09:52 AM

62. I've heard about the banging on door witness's also.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #62)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 11:24 AM

67. From the earlist stories witnesses heard "police talk"

Two women who live on the second floor near where the shooting happened said they heard a lot of noise late Thursday.

"It was, like, police talk: 'Open up! Open up!'" Caitlin Simpson, 20, told The Dallas Morning News.

Yazmine Hernandez, 20, was studying with Simpson when they heard the commotion.

"We heard cops yelling, but otherwise had no idea what was going on," Hernandez said.

More: https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/business/article217980900.html


If she thought it was her apartment and the door was ajar - as she now claims - why did she yell "Open up! Open up!"?

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 06:45 AM

57. Manslaughter is where it will stay, Murder under Texas law would be a stretch

 

Unless there are things we don’t know.

Looking at the Texas law it appears that a conviction of murder requires prior intent, that she went there with intent to harm someone.

Manslaughter is the appropriate charge under Texas law. She was reckless in her conduct and as a result caused the death of another, but did not go there to intentionally cause harm.

If they try for murder there is a strong chance it will be too much and they won’t get a jury to convict, as it will require convincing them that her intent was to harm another. If they try for manslaughter than they have a near certain conviction.

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Response to Lee-Lee (Reply #57)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 09:57 AM

64. +1, would she get a lighter sentence if she plead out for reckless manslaughter and just admitted

... she got the whole night wrong?

thx in advance

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #64)

Tue Sep 11, 2018, 11:41 AM

70. That's all on what the DA decides

 

It’s possible. But it’s also possible the DA will not want to take any deal because of how high profile this is.

I will say due to public pressure and how high profile it is she would not get as good a deal as if it were Joe Public who had the same thing happen. In that case a DA would take a plea as a win and move on. More eyes on what is done here.

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