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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMormon Mountain Meadows Massacre--11 Sept 1857
(the movie "September Dawn" has the massacre as a background part of the story)
A Utah Massacre And Mormon Memory
As families tramp all over the country this summer, visiting historic sites, there's one spot -- Mountain Meadows in southwestern Utah -- that won't be on many itineraries. Mountain Meadows, a two-hour drive from one of the state's popular tourist destinations, Zion National Park, is the site of what the historian Geoffrey Ward has called ''the most hideous example of the human cost exacted by religious fanaticism in American history until 9/11.'' And while it might not be a major tourist destination, for a century and a half the massacre at Mountain Meadows has been the focus of passionate debate among Mormons and the people of Utah. It is a debate that cuts to the core of the basic tenets of Mormonism. This, the darkest stain on the history of the religion, is a bitter reality and challenging predicament for a modern Mormon Church struggling to shed its extremist history.
On Sept. 11, 1857, in a meadow in southwestern Utah, a militia of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or Mormons, attacked a wagon train of Arkansas families bound for California. After a five-day siege, the militia persuaded the families to surrender under a flag of truce and a pledge of safe passage. Then, in the worst butchery of white pioneers by other white pioneers in the entire colonization of America, approximately 140 men, women and children were slaughtered. Only 17 children under the age of 8 -- the age of innocence in the Mormon faith -- were spared.
After the massacre, the church first claimed that local Paiute Indians were responsible, but as evidence of Mormon involvement mounted, it placed the sole blame for the killings on John D. Lee, a militia member and a Mormon zealot who was also the adopted son of the prophet Brigham Young. After nearly two decades, as part of a deal for statehood, Lee was executed by a firing squad in 1877. The church has been reluctant to assume responsibility -- labelling Lee a renegade -- but several historians, including some who are Mormon, believe that church leaders, though never prosecuted, ordered the massacre.
Now, 146 years later, Lee's descendants and the victims' relatives have been pressing the Mormon Church for an apology. The move for some official church acknowledgment began in the late 1980's, when a group of Lee descendants, including a former United States secretary of the interior, Stewart Udall, began working to clear their ancestor's name. In 1990, descendants of victims and perpetrators began urging the Mormon Church to accept responsibility for the massacre and to rebuild a crumbling landmark established at the site by United States Army troops in 1859.
The current church president, Gordon B. Hinckley -- himself a prophet who says he receives divine revelations -- took a personal interest in the episode, and in 1998 he agreed to restore the landmark where at least some of the bodies were buried. But even that concession turned controversial when, in August 1999, a church contractor's backhoe accidentally unearthed the bones of 29 victims. After a debate between Utah state officials and church leaders -- what has been called Utah's ''unique church-state tango'' -- about state laws requiring unearthed bones to be forensically examined for cause of death, the church had the remains quickly reburied without any extensive examination that might have drawn new attention to the brutality of the murders.
. . . .
https://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/24/opinion/a-utah-massacre-and-mormon-memory.html
Mountain Meadows Massacre
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Date September 711, 1857
Location Mountain Meadows, Utah Territory, United States
Deaths 120140 members of the BakerFancher wagon train
Non-fatal injuries Around 17
Accused Utah Territorial Militia (Iron County district), Paiute Native American auxiliaries
Weapons Guns, Bowie knives
The Mountain Meadows Massacre was a series of attacks on the BakerFancher emigrant wagon train, at Mountain Meadows in southern Utah. The attacks began on September 7, 1857, and culminated on September 11, 1857, resulting in the mass slaughter of the emigrant party by members of the Utah Territorial Militia from the Iron County district and purportedly aided by Native American allies. The extent to which Native Americans participated in the massacre is disputed and up until recent decades much of the blame for the massacre was unjustly attributed to the Native Americans.[1] The militia, officially called the Nauvoo Legion, was composed of southern Utah's Mormon settlers (members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or the LDS Church). Intending to leave no witnesses and thus prevent reprisals, the perpetrators killed all the adults and older childrenabout 120 men, women, and children in total. Seventeen children, all younger than seven, were spared.
The wagon train, mostly families from Arkansas, was bound for California on a route that passed through the Utah Territory, during a conflict later known as the Utah War. After arriving in Salt Lake City, the BakerFancher party made their way south, eventually stopping to rest at Mountain Meadows. While the emigrants were camped at the meadow, nearby militia leaders, including Isaac C. Haight and John D. Lee, joined forces to organize an attack on the wagon train. Intending to give the appearance of Native American aggression, the militia's plan was to arm some Southern Paiute Native Americans and persuade them to join with a larger party of their own militiamendisguised as Native Americansin an attack. During the militia's first assault on the wagon train the emigrants fought back, and a five-day siege ensued. Eventually fear spread among the militia's leaders that some emigrants had caught sight of white men and had likely discovered the identity of their attackers. As a result militia commander William H. Dame ordered his forces to kill the emigrants.
By this time the emigrants were running low on water and provisions, and allowed some approaching members of the militiawho carried a white flagto enter their camp. The militia members assured the emigrants they were protected and escorted them from the hasty fortification. After walking a distance from the camp, the militiamen, with the help of auxiliary forces hiding nearby, attacked the emigrants and killed all of them that they thought were old enough to be potential witnesses to report the attack. Following the massacre, the perpetrators hastily buried the victims[citation needed], leaving the bodies vulnerable to wild animals and the climate. Local families took in the surviving children, and many of the victims' possessions were sold by auction. Investigations, after interruption by the American Civil War, resulted in nine indictments during 1874. Of the men indicted, only John D. Lee was tried in a court of law. After two trials in the Utah Territory, Lee was convicted by a jury, sentenced to death, and executed by a Utah firing squad on March 23, 1877.
Today, historians attribute the massacre to a combination of factors, including war hysteria about possible invasion of Mormon territory and hyperbolic Mormon teachings against outsiders, which were part of the excesses of the Mormon Reformation period. According to the book Massacre at Mountain Meadows by Glen M. Leonard, Richard E. Turley, Jr., and Ronald Walker, Stake President Isaac Haight (1813 1886) was the primary person to push the idea of using force against the emigrants and initially sent to Brigham Young asking for his advice. President Young's letter, which was dated September 10, arrived two days after the slaughter with these instructions, "In regard to emigration trains passing through our settlements, we must not interfere with them... You must not meddle with them... if those who are there will leave, let them go in peace. While we should be on the alert, on hand, and always ready, we should also possess ourselves in patience... always remembering that God rules."
. . . . .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_Massacre
The Mountain Meadows Massacre
Published on Sep 16, 2015
In September of 1857, nearly 140 Arkansas emigrants camped near Enterprise in southwestern Utah. Local residents had heard rumors that the U.S. Army was en route to put down the growing Mormon movement, so the wagon train was viewed with suspicion and animosity. The Fancher-Baker Party was attacked without warning by Indians and later by local Mormon militia. In all, approximately 120 people were killed, mostly women and children. In 1877, 20 years after the mountain meadows massacre, participant John D. Lee was tried, convicted, and executed by a firing squad on the very spot that the Mountain Meadows Massacre took place. This engrossing documentary includes interviews with historians, reenactments, and photographs that tell all sides of the Mountain Meadows Massacre.
PatSeg
(47,270 posts)until I saw the movie September Dawn a few years ago. I'm sure there are many people who still don't know about it.
niyad
(113,066 posts)backtoblue
(11,343 posts)niyad
(113,066 posts)brewens
(13,538 posts)the Mormons, but really not much different than I feel about any organized religion. The Mormons kind of back up my belief that they all started out as some kind of cult. They started out based totally on fraud, but here they are now, a "main stream religion". Hmmm. I wonder if the exact same thing has happened before? Like maybe about 2000 years ago.
One friend of mine, probably my closest white wing gun nut buddy, has a real obsession with the Mormons, but in a perv kind of way. He lived in some heavily Mormon town in Idaho for a few years. He marveled at the beautiful girls, young wives and older men, and was convinced he saw all kinds of swapping and stuff going on! I'd like to get him on video when he's on a roll, it's quite remarkable.
That same guy was at my house going off about Russian immigrants at some town in northern Washington state. That was a few years ago, long before Trumps scandal/s began to be exposed. I've been planning on bringing up Russians the next time I talk to him to see what he says now.
He was telling me all about these Russians the yokles didn't like or trust, "weird stuff" going on. Guys out on the lake in the middle of the night doing who knows what. The usual paranoid crap. I bet now he says, oh, Russians! Great people! Salt of the earth! I wouldn't mind my daughter marrying one!
PatSeg
(47,270 posts)the origins of the Mormon religion and found out it was started by a known con artist who was looking for justification to sleep with more than one woman. Unlike ancient religions, we have written court documents about Joseph Smith's crimes.
We can look back at that time and understand that perhaps people were less educated and more gullible than they are today, yet the Mormon church has over 16 million members today. So many of the stories are just as ridiculous today as they were then. Looking at so many modern religions, Christianity included, I guess there is never a shortage of willfully ignorant gullible people.
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)visited the area many times. First the Meadows is about fifteen miles north of St George Utah on Hwy 18. Second,if you do visit the area,your life will change,the silence is only broken by the Eagles and the Hawks,Aerial Acrobatics and Calls to their Young.
Be ready to be confronted by Local Hard Core wondering why you took the time to visit the Monument. Have had times when Locals passing by on the Highway to turn around and stop when they saw our Car in the parking area. Just to question us as to why we were there.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,362 posts)Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)First,I either knew them personally or had seen them in a Retail Setting. Second,if it was today,my response would be rather lengthy and to the point with Historical Facts dealing with their so called Faith and their Church trying for over a Century to blame the Ute Indians. Btw,this is not their only Massacre Site,another is near Moab or CircleVille.
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)something on this but didnt find anything.
Church members were standing around smiling at us and I wanted to ask them about it but thought better of it.
niyad
(113,066 posts)oasis
(49,328 posts)niyad
(113,066 posts)Brother Buzz
(36,379 posts)C. F. McGlashan, a California journalist investigated the massacre in 1871 and discoved a wider cover-up after interviewing many people that actually participated in the Utah militia, but could not uncover any proof Brigham Young had a direct hand in it. The Mormon cover-up and whitewash mostly worked.
CanonRay
(14,084 posts)I'd always wanted to see it. There's a nice monument there now, when the Mormon church finally recognized their part in it. There are still graves of people missing and presumed dead somewhere in the meadow. A pretty place, but sad echos.
Bucky
(53,947 posts)four years ahead, apparently
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)TomSlick
(11,088 posts)I start talking about the Mountain Meadows Massacre and the murder of Arkansawyers at the orders of Brigham Young as "God's vengeance."
I have yet to meet a young missionary who would admit to having ever heard of it.
FreeState
(10,570 posts)Its not ever talked about in Church. Even my parents who are nearing 90 didnt know what it was when I asked.
The Church knows how to burry a story among its members. Hell most member dont even know Joseph Smiths first vision had at least 9 versions, the first recorded years after it supposedly happened.
TomSlick
(11,088 posts)niyad
(113,066 posts)history of this cult.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Locally anyway but there's a Romney.
http://www.common-place-archives.org/vol-12/no-03/herman/
niyad
(113,066 posts)Coventina
(27,059 posts)niyad
(113,066 posts)jalan48
(13,842 posts)I've read in another book, "The Mountain Meadow Massacre" by Sally Denton, that after the massacre women in Cedar City were seen walking around the streets in fancy dresses taken from some of the victims.
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)from the US Army Scribes who were on scene a few days later. And yes,your reference was also confirmed by others in other books.
Protect a Religion and make up a fake story as cover.
yonder
(9,657 posts)This Idaho boy, has heard accounts of this over the years. Jon Krakauer might have talked about it in his book "Under the Banner of Heaven". Or maybe it was a Bernard DeVoto/Wallace Stegner book. Dunno.
As post #3 suggests, there are a lot of special places in the American inland west. Southern Utah in general and southwest Utah in particular are at the top of that list, IMO.
About all I can say is Lord Acton had it right in "...absolute power corrupts absolutely".
niyad
(113,066 posts)ones as well.
djg21
(1,803 posts)Juanita Brooks book on the massacre:
https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Mountain_Meadows_Massacre.html?id=dDiH6lyeyYcC&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button.
William Bagley published a book in 2002 which is a good read if youre interested in the history of the American west.
https://books.google.com/books/about/Blood_of_the_Prophets.html?id=eakce2R_mdkC&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button
niyad
(113,066 posts)shanti
(21,675 posts)Last edited Wed Sep 12, 2018, 06:04 PM - Edit history (1)
I found that my maternal first cousins were directly related to one of the men in this massacre, Samuel Jewkes. I saw a picture of the man, and one of my cousins definitely resembles him. My cousins weren't raised Mormon, but their father was a jack Mormon (nonpracticing). There was also polygamy in their family during the 1800's, and some of their ancestors lived in a Mormon compound in Mexico with the Romney family.
It was shocking to find this information.
niyad
(113,066 posts)searching the family tree.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)grantcart
(53,061 posts)And here is the rest of the story, why good family oriented Mormons triggered the greatest terrorist assault on mostly women and children until Kevin McVey visited Oklahoma.
The first mayor of Salt Lake City was Jedediah Morgan Grant. My great great great great great grandfather was integrally linked to this mass murder.
Growing up we knew that we were from Mormon royalty. Jedediahs son is Heber J Grant and after JMGs passing when Heber was only 9 days old he would be raised by Brigham Young. He would become the 7th President of the Church, the second longest serving President and after Smith and Young the most important President. After the stock market collapse HJG would need to go to NY and renegotiate the mortgages and debt as LDS members were severely affected. In order to gain credibility before he went he issued The Edict which detailed that the LDS Church was no longer going to tolerate plural marriage and everyone had to sign a loyalty pledge promising to not just follow the letter of the law but in fact no longer tolerate plural marriage. He excommunicated families that broke the pledge and some fled to Canada. Some fled to Mexico. Mitt Romneys grand father fled to Mexico.
Growing up I didnt know any of this except the names and titles of our ancestors, and that is pretty hard to hide. We had a family reunion in Salt Lake City and stopped by to see the stature of JMG.
My father, who was a devout Presbyterian, wouldnt talk much about it but we know he hate LDS. I remember on a car ride I asked him why and he said there was great evil in the past, murders and mass murders.
I didnt really learn much about my ancestors until a freak coincidence had me frequently sitting, in junior high school, next to someone who would know a lot about my ancestors, Rick Romney, Mitts cousin. He was astonished that I didnt know anything about them. His grandfather was a moderate Republican who a) marched with Dr. King b) was openly skeptical of the Vietnam War and c) hated Richard Nixon. At 13 I was very interested in him and hoped that he would win the Presidency and stop the war that Johnson had escalated. Rick didnt know much about his grandfathers politics and so we engaged in a strange swap of information about each others relatives.
Over the years I have read everything I could about the MMM and while a lot is now known some questions remain.
Before the Massacre
In the mid 1850s the LDS Church was facing 2 existential crises and Brigham Young knew it.
The first was that many settlers moved away from Salt Lake City to homestead in the rough scrabble area away from the Lake that was hard to farm but allowed them to own their own farm. As they grew away from SLC the rural Mormons became lax. They became unenthusiastic members in writing only. They stopped attending Church and stopped visiting Salt Lake City. If this trend was not reversed the LDS Church could not survive.
The second challenge was that in 1848 the California Gold Rush triggered a massive migration to the west of Utah which left Utah surrounded. Young realized that as normal Americans moved closer and closer to Utah, and surrounded it that there would be enormous pressure to halt polygamy and if the LDS would eventually be absorbed by Protestant Christians.
The Mormon Reformation
Young sent JMG through out the rural areas and railed at them with sermons of hell and the loss of their eternal life. He was adept at creating extreme religious fervor and thousands were rebaptized
Young said at the time:
According to Young: "The time is coming when justice will be laid to the line and righteousness to the plummet; when we shall take the old broadsword and ask, Are you for God? And if you are not heartily on the Lord's side, you will be hewn down."[5]
. . .
"I know that there are transgressors, who, if they knew themselves and the only condition upon which they can obtain forgiveness, would beg of their brethren to shed their blood, that the smoke might ascend to God as an offering to appease the wrath that is kindled against them, and that the law might have its course."[9]
Creating Terror
Young also had a plan to create a region of terror so that the Americans would not want to get involved in governing Utah but leave it to the Mormons. At the time the entire US Army had about 10,000 in uniform and the Mormon home militia had more than 15,000.
Youngs plan was simple. Have Mormons living along the trail where California settlers were passing dress up like Indians and terrorize them for a few days and let them pass. That would give him leverage to negotiate with the federal government who was pressing to eliminate polygamy. Leave us alone and we will take care of the Indian terror here was the idea.
What went wrong
Everything written above is basically non controversial. The settlers dressed up as Indians and surrounded the train of mostly women and children. After a few days they would tell them that they had arranged passage and that if they left without their arms they would be safe and over 100 Mormons escorted these women and children (and a few men) and murdered them one by one. A few young children were taken and raised in Mormon families.
The Mormon Church said that the head of the settlers sent a note to Young who sent back an urgent message to release them but it arrived to late.
Many people, like myself, believe that they received the answer for the simple reason that Young micro managed everything and they wouldnt take action by themselves, but that is another discussion.
What hasnt been addressed is the question why non violent people would feel justified to create this mountain of violence. The premise was laid by JMG and the Mormon Reformation but something happened.
There are two links from well sourced accounts that put forth that attacking the emigrants was the original plan. The LDS Church, of course, denies that part of the story. I believe it to be true because I cannot conceive of these settlers taking such an action without believing that Young had ordered it, either explicitly or implicitly.
I believe that this was BY's plan. Create terror so that he could negotiate with the US government for more autonomy.
This is the consensus position in the Wikipedia article
There is a consensus among historians that Brigham Young played a role in provoking the massacre, at least unwittingly, and in concealing its evidence after the fact; however, they debate whether Young knew about the planned massacre ahead of time and whether he initially condoned it before later taking a strong public stand against it. Young's use of inflammatory and violent language[72] in response to the Federal expedition added to the tense atmosphere at the time of the attack. Following the massacre, Young stated in public forums that God had taken vengeance on the BakerFancher party.[73] It is unclear whether Young held this view because he believed that this specific group posed an actual threat to colonists or because he believed that the group was directly responsible for past crimes against Mormons.
One way or another Brigham Young bears responsibility for the Massacre. That his name is still on a University and other buildings demanding respect. They should remove his name. They should also take down my Great great etc grandfather's statute in front of city hall. He died before the massacre but he contributed to the hysteria which underlined the murderous intent.
http://www.historynaked.com/mountain-meadows-massacre/
http://salon.glenrose.net/default.asp?view=plink&id=14429
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_Reformation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedediah_M._Grant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heber_J._Grant
There is an alternate theory that Young wanted to take revenge because they were from Arkansas and Romney's ancestor Pratt, a close friend of Young's (one of Pratt's wives may have been shared with Joseph Smith) was arrested and eventually murdered after he had arranged a "plural marriage" with a married woman.
Her husband, Hector, an alcoholic wife beater, tracked down Pratt and his wife and had them arrested in OK. When he was released Hector murdered Pratt. Mormons celebrated Pratt as a 'martyr'.
The theory here is that extra revenge was taken on this wagon train because Pratt was murdered just 4 months before the wagon train was attacked and the wagon train, like Pratt, was from Arkansas.
The story of Pratt is here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parley_P._Pratt
yonder
(9,657 posts)DFW
(54,295 posts)Absolutely FASCINATING stuff! This is some European-American history that we SHOULD all be learning about, and never do because it is politically touchy. Denying it is equivalent to Germans not learning about the Third Reich in school (the West always did make sure their school children learned about it; the East denied any remnants were on their soil, even as their soldiers wore similar uniforms, did the goose step, and confiscated newspapers from any westerner who entered their territory).
What a relief to have a fresh, informative thread that is NOT fawning about the latest burp from Bernie Sanders after he had a second cup of coffee for breakfast.
niyad
(113,066 posts)must learn on our own.