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Thu Sep 6, 2018, 10:38 AM

 

All Federal officials and employees take an oath

to uphold the Constitution:
I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter.

They do not take an oath of loyalty to or blindly obey the leader.

I know that many here are concerned by yesterday's NYT Op-Ed that many un-elected federal officials and/or employees are not following the orders of the current elected President, calling it a coup and shadow government.

But isn't this how a democratic republic should operate. Loyalty should not be to the leader, that's how dictatorships work, but to the law, specifically our constitution.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Thu Sep 6, 2018, 10:40 AM

1. To honor their oath they would have to go public en masse--and NOT anonymously.

They would need to seriously pressure Congress to impeach or the VP and cabinet to use the 25th Amendment.

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #1)

Thu Sep 6, 2018, 10:54 AM

3. They are headed in this direction via the OP, imo.

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #1)

Thu Sep 6, 2018, 12:00 PM

7. Yet they may be effective working anonymously

 

By going public, they would be fired and replaced with sycophants.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Thu Sep 6, 2018, 10:54 AM

2. Kavanaugh just said that when he was WH Counsel to Bush he considered he was working FOR BUSH.

(in response to a question by D. Feinstein)

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Response to flor-de-jasmim (Reply #2)

Thu Sep 6, 2018, 10:59 AM

5. I doubt that George W. Bush was paying his salary

He was an employee of the US government, like every other White House staffer.

Just sayin'

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Thu Sep 6, 2018, 10:58 AM

4. This is a garbage take. If the leader's orders are illegal or so immoral they must be undermined,

anonymous moves behind the scenes are not the solution. These people are merely tweaking Trump's actions, which still result in things like family separation and incarceration at the border.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

Thu Sep 6, 2018, 11:11 AM

6. Yes, that is how works

Federal employees must follow the law, but outside the military, there is no requirement to obey orders. All they can do is fire you if you disobey.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #6)

Thu Sep 6, 2018, 12:05 PM

8. The military takes this oath

 

I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #8)

Thu Sep 6, 2018, 12:08 PM

9. Yes they are required to follow legal orders or be court-martialled for insubordination

But the only penalty for insubordination by federal civilian employees is firing.

All federal employees take the same oath as the military.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #8)

Thu Sep 6, 2018, 12:11 PM

10. That is the officers oath. The enlisted oath is different

 

(a)Enlistment Oath.
Each person enlisting in an armed force shall take the following oath:
I, __________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

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