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Fri Aug 31, 2018, 06:04 PM

GRAPHICS: Trump impeachment poll numbers vs. other impeachees







After putting together the second one, I wondered again how the hell Democrats manage to lose to these corrupt stumblefucks.

Feel free to distribute these far and wide.

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Response to yurbud (Original post)

Fri Aug 31, 2018, 06:26 PM

1. The difference between Nixon and Bush/Trump is huge.

It's hard to force an impeachment when nearly half the country is against it. 46% is a huge number in this context. Until that number slips 10+ more points, it's not politically viable to impeach. Beyond that, I would be interested in the polling for Nixon and resignation compared to Trump. I'd wager a lot more Americans felt he should resign than that 55% who wanted him impeached.

And I get Clinton was impeached but he wasn't removed and the GOP saw backlash for it. Not only that but the overreach seemed to make him even more popular.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 31, 2018, 08:27 PM

3. It's odd for Democrats to make the Clinton analogy because the public never bought it

hence the backlash.

I didn't mean to imply that these numbers mean the Democrats go kamikaze on impeachment, but Trump is getting in the neighborhood where even if Republicans won't vote to remove him, they won't want to be seen fighting for him either.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #1)

Sat Sep 1, 2018, 11:57 AM

4. so you think the only difference between Trump, Nixon, & Clinton is viability of removal?

not merits of the charges against them?

Do you think people notice the difference?

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Response to yurbud (Reply #4)

Sat Sep 1, 2018, 01:03 PM

5. When half the country still opposes impeachment, you have a battle...

A battle to convince enough House members to vote for it knowing basically half the country opposes it... then find enough senators to convict and remove or what's the damn point? The Democrats won't have enough votes in the senate to convict and what do you gain out of impeachment without removal? He's still president and now maybe even more emboldened.

What did Nixon in was the fear of impeachment/removal but also, the huge amount of support lost by Republicans, which made impeachment a non-political issue. Trump is so despised by Democrats that I bet most would have said to impeach on day one. He also has a huge amount of GOP support. Until they waver, especially in the senate, it's a pointless endeavor that can only make him stronger.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #5)

Sat Sep 1, 2018, 01:55 PM

6. centrist Democrats don't understand optics at all

The votes aren't there now and maybe they never will be, but simply acknowledging that he should be impeached would show a level of honesty that would earn some trust.

Republicans say what they want even when there isn't any chance of doing it.

Centrist Democrats say what they will do if Republicans have the power to obstruct them but never what they would do if voters give them a clear shot (which does happen in states like California).

Also, Democrats seem to be deathly afraid that they will say something that will get the GOP base into a lather, but they will do that just fine on their own.

Case in point: fairly moderate on most issues Obama was called a socialist by Republicans in the 2008 election.

It backfired in two ways: people didn't know what socialism was, but the figured if it was different from what Bush was doing, they were for it. The other way it backfired was when Bernie, an actual Democratic Socialist ran, the label had no sting since they had used it on someone who wasn't.

Democrats need to figure out how to excite their own base not worry about GOP base.

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Response to yurbud (Reply #6)

Sat Sep 1, 2018, 05:23 PM

8. Not really. There's clearly not enough to push impeachment.

If the Mueller probe actually does bring about some monster charges, then all bets are off. But until that happens, it's stupid for Democrats to talk impeachment - especially when they have a wounded incumbent and a party on the ropes. Why give them a rallying cry? We already know half the country is against the idea of impeachment ... is it really an issue we want to define the midterm elections?

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #8)

Sun Sep 2, 2018, 12:14 PM

9. how is worrying about suppressing enthusiasm of your opponent's base a winning strategy?

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Response to yurbud (Reply #9)

Sun Sep 2, 2018, 12:36 PM

11. It wouldnt Suppress the opponents

It will motivate them.

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Response to fallout87 (Reply #11)

Sun Sep 2, 2018, 03:27 PM

12. Why not consider what would motivate DEMOCRATIC voters & non-voters

to go to the polls and vote for Democrats?

Centrists seem to be playing a defensive game at best, which leads to marginal victories at best, then they take incremental action that non-policy wonks can't always appreciate, giving the GOP an opening to retake power.

When Reaganomics was ascendant, this made a sort of sense even if I didn't agree with it, but now, the GOP tax, budget, and deregulation policies have been proven to be epic failures--yet too many Democrats fail to say this clearly, forcefully, and propose policies that Republican ones with some of the cruelty and racism left out.

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Response to yurbud (Original post)

Fri Aug 31, 2018, 08:08 PM

2. Thank you

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Response to yurbud (Original post)

Sat Sep 1, 2018, 02:44 PM

7. and Trump's numbers are like that even before the Mueller report has come out

The difference between him and Nixon is that he is being enabled by the GOP. 99% of the country could be in favor of impeachment but unless they actually get their finger out and do something, it won't matter.

Still... I'm cautiously optimistic that this will all come crashing down on him. Cautiously.

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Response to renate (Reply #7)

Sun Sep 2, 2018, 12:20 PM

10. and Nixon was a smart, competent president on some issues

and the GOP of the time had centrists and even liberal elected officials.

The modern GOP has devolved to a lynch mob, not just in their media and base, but increasingly, their elected officials too.

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