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Wed Aug 29, 2018, 07:33 PM

DEMS: 'YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT' WE'RE GETTING HIS TAX RETURNS

Democrats Are Going To Get Trumpís Tax Returns If They Win The House
ďYouíre damn right,Ē one Democrat said.

By Paul Blumenthal

If Democrats win control of the House in November they will finally have the votes to force an issue theyíve been hammering for nearly two years: Making President Donald Trump disclose his tax returns.

Since Trump took office, Democrats have forced 11 votes in the House of Representatives to require that the IRS hand over Trumpís returns. These votes all failed because only one member of the Republican majority joined the Democrats in their request. If Democrats win 217 or more seats in the November election ― which they have a 74 percent chance to do, according to the polling aggregation site FiveThirtyEight ― they will have enough votes to get these documents.

ďYouíre damn rightĒ Democrats will vote to get Trumpís tax returns if they win a majority in November, said Rep. Bill Pascrell (D-N.J.).





https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-tax-returns-democrats-house_us_5b8706b9e4b0511db3d453b6

36 replies, 3473 views

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Reply DEMS: 'YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT' WE'RE GETTING HIS TAX RETURNS (Original post)
kpete Aug 2018 OP
PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2018 #1
Maraya1969 Aug 2018 #2
Quemado Aug 2018 #3
LiberalFighter Aug 2018 #9
csziggy Aug 2018 #15
PJMcK Aug 2018 #26
csziggy Aug 2018 #28
MrsCoffee Aug 2018 #4
reACTIONary Aug 2018 #6
tritsofme Aug 2018 #16
Hulk Aug 2018 #5
reACTIONary Aug 2018 #7
brooklynite Aug 2018 #14
nitpicker Aug 2018 #20
reACTIONary Aug 2018 #29
brooklynite Aug 2018 #33
reACTIONary Aug 2018 #34
reACTIONary Aug 2018 #31
progressoid Aug 2018 #10
reACTIONary Aug 2018 #30
progressoid Aug 2018 #32
reACTIONary Aug 2018 #35
Duppers Aug 2018 #11
Gothmog Aug 2018 #18
oasis Aug 2018 #8
brooklynite Aug 2018 #12
jcgoldie Aug 2018 #19
Name removed Aug 2018 #21
jcgoldie Aug 2018 #22
Name removed Aug 2018 #23
jcgoldie Aug 2018 #24
Cha Aug 2018 #13
Gothmog Aug 2018 #17
Gothmog Aug 2018 #25
ecstatic Aug 2018 #27
Gothmog Aug 2018 #36

Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Aug 29, 2018, 08:13 PM

1. Semi stupid question here.

What if he continues to say no? Can the IRS be compelled to release his returns?

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 29, 2018, 09:30 PM

2. I read that the president's tax returns are public property. I read that a long time ago.

I hope they pint them out in the newspapers for everyone to peruse.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 29, 2018, 09:57 PM

3. Mueller more than likely has Trump's tax returns

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2017-09-18/robert-mueller-likely-has-donald-trumps-tax-returns

There are probably more ways IRS can be compelled to release Trumpís tax returns. I am not a lawyer, but I would think a House subcommittee could subpoena the returns.

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Response to Quemado (Reply #3)

Wed Aug 29, 2018, 10:28 PM

9. I'm sure he has Trump's returns. He has Manafort's returns as shown by exhibits.

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Response to Quemado (Reply #3)

Wed Aug 29, 2018, 11:36 PM

15. I'd rather Mueller have them than Congress

Mueller can make much more effective use of Trump's tax returns than Congress would.

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Response to csziggy (Reply #15)

Thu Aug 30, 2018, 10:17 AM

26. In pursuit of the law, you're correct

From a PR viewpoint, however, if a Democratic Congress releases them publicly, it will undermine Trump's claims about his wealth. The release of the returns would dominate the news cycles for days if not a couple of weeks. Trump would probably claim that they're not his actual returns but his head will be exploding.

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Response to PJMcK (Reply #26)

Thu Aug 30, 2018, 10:49 AM

28. I suspect that whatever Mueller has will come out before the 2020 election

The FBI is already embarrassed by Comey's selective release of information that swayed the election towards Trump. I doubt the FBI will let Trump use them to hide information next time around.

Sorry - gotta run. Those are incomplete thoughts and not exactly what I mean.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 29, 2018, 10:00 PM

4. Maxine Waters serves as Ranking Member of the Financial Services Committee.

If Democrats gain a majority in the House of Representatives, Maxine Waters could become chair of a committee that has the power to subpoena President Trumpís bank records.

Rep. Bill Pascrell (D-N.J.) has led multiple attempts to compel the House Ways and Means Committee to release the presidentís tax returns, but the effort has gone nowhere in the Republican-controlled House. But if Democrats are in charge, it will likely be the first thing that Pascrell calls for.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 29, 2018, 10:22 PM

6. Absolutely, yes...,

...tax returns are public records and are only protected by statute and not by right. At one time early on they were not so protected, and were publically available to anyone who was curious . They can be subpoena for investigative and law enforcement purposes and can be entered into the public record.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 29, 2018, 11:44 PM

16. No. Trump could order the IRS not to comply with the subpoena.

Either House could find those officials refusing subpoenas in contempt, but without DOJ backing them up, they are limited in their ability to force compliance or impose consequences...short of restricting funding and impeachment.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Aug 29, 2018, 10:09 PM

5. Just FYI.....they will NEVER get his tax returns...

Don't even dream about it. This fat slob will never turn them over. You can call a legal challenge....issue a subpoena as many times as you like; you will NEVER get him to hand them over. I would bet a months wages on it....seriously.

Let's focus on getting the House and possibly the Senate. We can start hearings; but let's not fool ourselves. This lard ass con artist is never going to turn over such records. It would literally destroy him, and he's not going to let that happen....no matter what!

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Response to Hulk (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 29, 2018, 10:26 PM

7. The IRS would hand them over, and...

.... he would have no choice in the matter. These are public records. He can't hide them under his bed as Nixon did the tapes. And look what good that did Nixion.

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #7)

Wed Aug 29, 2018, 10:48 PM

14. No, they are NOT...

They are not public documents, any more than your tax returns are. They are GOVERNMENT records, and are protected from release absent a legal cause.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #14)

Thu Aug 30, 2018, 05:51 AM

20. Unfortunately, I have to agree

This is a link to the IRS list of the exceptions allowing tax return info to be released:

https://www.irs.gov/government-entities/federal-state-local-governments/disclosure-laws

This is a link to the full body of 26 U.S. Code Section 6103, which generally protects tax return info from release:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6103

In short, the law itself would have to be changed by veto-proof votes in Congress, and then have to withstand legal challenges such as "no ex post facto laws", etc., that could go all the way to the Supreme Court.

My conclusion: FAT chance on trying to change the law. Let's work instead on the midterms.

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Response to nitpicker (Reply #20)

Thu Aug 30, 2018, 03:26 PM

29. I refer you to...

... these two sources:

http://yalejreg.com/nc/can-congress-get-president-trumps-tax-returns/

The statutory authority for any congressional requests would probably come from Sections 6103(f)(1) & (2) of the tax code. Under (f)(1), some committees of Congress can request disclosure of Trumpís returns and can examine those returns privately. Under (f)(2), a non-partisan career official, the Chief of Staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT), may also request and privately examine those returns. Professor Yin argues that information obtained through Section 6103(f) can be subsequently disclosed to the public, when public disclosure serves a legitimate legislative purpose.*

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2017-09-18/robert-mueller-likely-has-donald-trumps-tax-returns

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #29)

Thu Aug 30, 2018, 03:46 PM

33. "privately examine" being the operative phrase...

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #33)

Thu Aug 30, 2018, 05:15 PM

34. That's true, but...

.... see the footnotemto the yale quotation :

Under Section 6103(f)(4)(A), ďany return or return information obtained by [a tax committee] may be submitted by the committee to the Senate or the House of Representatives, or to both.Ē This language has been understood as effectively allowing public disclosure of the return information obtained under 6103(f). Yin argues that such disclosure must be limited to circumstances where a proper legislative purpose may be invoked. See Yin, Preventing Congressional Violations of Taxpayer Privacy, 69 The Tax Lawyer 103, 118-136 (2015).

Yin, mentioned above wrote the following oped for wapo. It's more assertive then explanatory, but he does seem to be an authority:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/congress-has-the-power-to-obtain-and-release-trumps-tax-returns/2017/02/07/aa53254c-ea63-11e6-80c2-30e57e57e05d_story.html?utm_term=.2f1ee6f5ab98

In my humble opinion, getting the returns into committee would be 90 to 99 percent of the value of full public disclosure . And I doubt they could be kept from disclosure if there was anything at all interesting in them.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #14)

Thu Aug 30, 2018, 03:28 PM

31. I refer you to...

... these two sources:

http://yalejreg.com/nc/can-congress-get-president-trumps-tax-returns/

The statutory authority for any congressional requests would probably come from Sections 6103(f)(1) & (2) of the tax code. Under (f)(1), some committees of Congress can request disclosure of Trumpís returns and can examine those returns privately. Under (f)(2), a non-partisan career official, the Chief of Staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT), may also request and privately examine those returns. Professor Yin argues that information obtained through Section 6103(f) can be subsequently disclosed to the public, when public disclosure serves a legitimate legislative purpose.*

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2017-09-18/robert-mueller-likely-has-donald-trumps-tax-returns

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Response to Hulk (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 29, 2018, 10:29 PM

10. Agreed.

The best we can hope for is someone leaking them. And then he would say they are fake.

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Response to progressoid (Reply #10)

Thu Aug 30, 2018, 03:27 PM

30. I refer you to...

... these two sources:

http://yalejreg.com/nc/can-congress-get-president-trumps-tax-returns/

The statutory authority for any congressional requests would probably come from Sections 6103(f)(1) & (2) of the tax code. Under (f)(1), some committees of Congress can request disclosure of Trumpís returns and can examine those returns privately. Under (f)(2), a non-partisan career official, the Chief of Staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT), may also request and privately examine those returns. Professor Yin argues that information obtained through Section 6103(f) can be subsequently disclosed to the public, when public disclosure serves a legitimate legislative purpose.*

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2017-09-18/robert-mueller-likely-has-donald-trumps-tax-returns

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #30)

Thu Aug 30, 2018, 03:44 PM

32. "Even if a congressional committee requests President Trump's tax returns from the IRS,

"Even if a congressional committee requests President Trumpís tax returns from the IRS, President Trump may have a constitutional defense to disclosure. "


Barring some cataclysmic change in Washington, I expect Trump would fight this all the way to his Supreme Court if necessary.

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Response to progressoid (Reply #32)

Thu Aug 30, 2018, 05:18 PM

35. No doubt....

.... but the text of the law is pretry stright forward and simple to "interpret". I think he would lose.

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Response to Hulk (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 29, 2018, 10:37 PM

11. Mueller?

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Response to Hulk (Reply #5)

Thu Aug 30, 2018, 12:47 AM

18. The Congress can subponea the IRS and get the returns

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Aug 29, 2018, 10:28 PM

8. Good for Dems to hammer on tax returns. Lets's see Trump tweet on it.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Aug 29, 2018, 10:46 PM

12. Sorry, but this should NOT be a Priority...

In 2016, people voted for Trump despite his refusal to release his Tax Returns, and Clinton's decision to release hers. We need to focus on policy issues that voters care about, and oversight on how the Administration is carrying out its obligations. If we look like WE'RE not dealing with the problems voters are concerned about, we'll be out of office again in 2020.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #12)

Thu Aug 30, 2018, 01:34 AM

19. exactly what are the "problems voters are concerned about" that got Trump elected?

...other than making America white again and loading the supreme court with right to lifers?

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Response to jcgoldie (Reply #19)


Response to Name removed (Reply #21)

Thu Aug 30, 2018, 07:06 AM

22. Your argument is that voters arrived at Donald Trump because he is serving their needs?

Enlighten me, I am insulated.

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Response to jcgoldie (Reply #22)


Response to Name removed (Reply #23)

Thu Aug 30, 2018, 07:20 AM

24. so...

Your response does not address the issue of what are the policy issues which inspired anyone to vote for Trump that have to do with "serving their needs". The biggest problem with the Obama voters was not the ones who voted for Trump but the ones who stayed home. Since those candidates share zero overlap in terms of policy, it makes it hard for me to see how they would make that transition unless their motivation was based on something else. Like, oh I don't know, perhaps antiquated conceptions of gender....

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Wed Aug 29, 2018, 10:47 PM

13. Now there's an incentive!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2018, 12:46 AM

17. Trump's tax returns will be released early on if the Dems take the House

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2018, 10:09 AM

25. House Democrats had 11 votes on Trump's tax returns

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Aug 30, 2018, 10:37 AM

27. Great first start, but don't expect the returns to be accurate

It will be more about what he purposely left off the returns than what's actually on them.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Aug 31, 2018, 10:23 AM

36. From my twitter feed

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