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Tue Aug 28, 2018, 04:44 PM

'We saw nuns kill children: the ghosts of St Joseph Orphanage' Buzzfeednews.com

Article posted Aug 27.

Appalling report of an early 90s case brought againdt the Catholic order that ran the orphanage. At the time people simply were unwilling to believe what was revealed.

Discussed and linked at PZ Meyers' blog pharyngula.

Found it impossible to continue reading about what was done there.

16 replies, 2103 views

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Reply 'We saw nuns kill children: the ghosts of St Joseph Orphanage' Buzzfeednews.com (Original post)
bobbieinok Aug 2018 OP
LineReply .
NCTraveler Aug 2018 #1
WhiskeyGrinder Aug 2018 #2
WhiskeyGrinder Aug 2018 #4
panader0 Aug 2018 #6
WhiskeyGrinder Aug 2018 #7
Marcuse Aug 2018 #3
flamin lib Aug 2018 #5
VA_Jill Aug 2018 #8
WhiskeyGrinder Aug 2018 #9
WhiskeyGrinder Aug 2018 #10
flamin lib Aug 2018 #11
WhiskeyGrinder Aug 2018 #13
flamin lib Aug 2018 #14
WhiskeyGrinder Aug 2018 #15
flamin lib Aug 2018 #16
GemDigger Aug 2018 #12



Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #2)

Tue Aug 28, 2018, 06:03 PM

4. I am staggered that my thread got hidden. A lot of people in denial, I guess.

I do hope whoever voted to hide that thread for being kooky content educates themselves.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #4)

Tue Aug 28, 2018, 06:41 PM

6. I was amazed that it was hidden too. Why?

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Response to panader0 (Reply #6)

Tue Aug 28, 2018, 06:47 PM

7. No idea. Misplaced faith in institutions? A wish that it's not real?

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Response to bobbieinok (Original post)

Tue Aug 28, 2018, 06:36 PM

5. The original thread has been removed.

My immediate reaction was "fake news" and I wanted independent verification though recent history might give credence. Now it's gone. Anybody have insight as to why?

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Response to flamin lib (Reply #5)

Tue Aug 28, 2018, 07:08 PM

8. That's just WRONG

I managed to read my way through that whole incredible report. It's not gossip. It's a FACT-BASED report recounting a court case brought in Vermont in the 1990s. It was horrible to read but must have been even more horrible to live through. Knowing how *some* nuns and priests behaved toward friends of mine in the 1940s and 1050s (I started public school in 1948, so my contemporaries would have started in Catholic school around that time also), I can believe the stories of the survivors. I also know how children's minds work and what gets buried, only to surface later, and how memories sometimes weave in and out of each other. Today's scandal in the Pennsylvania church should also be a cautionary tale. So it's WRONG to hide this story.

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Response to flamin lib (Reply #5)

Tue Aug 28, 2018, 07:37 PM

9. I wish I knew who had alerted on it and why, but I guess that's the nature of discussion boards.

I like to think someone just alerted too hastily -- maybe someone who saw "Buzzfeed" and thought it wasn't a serious report. But I'm disappointed they didn't respond to it, or dig in a little deeper. And the fact a jury hid it -- it's a little depressing, tbh.

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Response to flamin lib (Reply #5)

Tue Aug 28, 2018, 07:39 PM

10. Why was your immediate reaction "fake news"?

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #10)

Tue Aug 28, 2018, 08:51 PM

11. Like I said in earlier posts it just seemed too

Horrid to be true. This level of depravity sounds like an Alex Jones conspiracy. I also said in previous posts that there is history to prove that humans can find those levels of hellish behaviour. The Holocaust, Lol Pot's killing fields and of course repeated sexual abuse in the Church and its coverup.

My heart wants to believe this kind of cruelty can't possibly exist today. My head tells me otherwise.

Still, in today's climate of conspiracy theories, social media memes and media manipulation I have to do due dilligence.

And I will.

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Response to flamin lib (Reply #11)

Tue Aug 28, 2018, 09:21 PM

13. This article does that work for you. The reporter, an award-winning journalist who has written

for the NYT and New Yorker (among others), spent years tracking down records and corroborating evidence for some of the more disturbing claims. No one denies abuse happened at St. Joseph's. The settlements were paid out years ago. This reporter wanted to shine a brighter light on the story and went back through the original reports, records, memoirs and letters and interviewed people who were still alive to determine the extent of the abuse -- the torture -- these children went through. I'm curious what your due diligence on something like this might look like.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #13)

Tue Aug 28, 2018, 11:11 PM

14. This isn't for anyone but me.

The article is compelling but it is only one source. Everything a coursery scan turns up is linked to the buzzfeed article.

I'm not questioning your personal conviction and do not doubt the capacity of people in authority to abuse those in their care. From politicians to Scout leaders, clergy of all stripes, teachers and low level managers in fast food establishments people in power sometimes abuse that power.

On one hand the more people involved in a conspiracy the less likely it is to remain secret, on the other hand we have hard evidence that the Catholic Church, a worldwide organization, did exactly that for decades if not centuries.

As I said, my heart wants desperately to believe one thing while my head believes another. I have to resolve this dilemma myself for myself.

I hope to find archives of the original reporting of the law suits and the settlements paid independent of Buzzfeed. It may require micro fiche searches or perhaps court record searches if I can find a case to cite. Next step is cross referencing names and other details in the Buzzfeed article.

We live in an age of conspiracy theories that even trusted media outlets are corrupted by.

I'm just jaded. Jaded to things that sound reasonable, things that don't.

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Response to flamin lib (Reply #14)

Wed Aug 29, 2018, 09:22 AM

15. What kinds of stories do you subject to this personal effort?

Here's a place to start. The Burlington Free Press is rerunning some of its reporting from the 1990s regarding the settlements, including these:

https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/2018/08/27/vermont-diocese-please-accept-deep-apology/1108480002/

https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/2018/08/27/nuns-recall-abuses-st-josephs-orphanage/1108459002/

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #15)

Wed Aug 29, 2018, 01:22 PM

16. Thanks for the links. That's the sort of thing I'm looking for.

Contemporary reporting at the time of the trials with attribution. I would have found them eventually and will use these to find at least one other--the three source standard.

Please don't take any of what I do as a personal affront. With all the conspiracies about pizza gate, Sandy Hook and the like I find myself working extra hard to avoid confirmation bias on my own part. I am no friend to religeon, organized or otherwise. My first inclination is to accept at face value anything that confirms my distrust of, and disdain for, the widely accepted superstition that is Christianity. After all it's not like we don't have thousands of reasons to believe that the Church abuses children and protects the abusers.

As to what sort of stories I subject to such scrutiny I'd say any that play to my own inate biases. It would be easy to just accept and act on those things that reinforce my already held beliefs. I'm just trying to be a better man than the drooling mouth breathers that follow Infowars, Breitbart and the like.

Thank you again for the new links and if I've offended you in any way please accept my apology.

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Response to bobbieinok (Original post)

Tue Aug 28, 2018, 08:59 PM

12. 3 coffees and 10 cigarettes later I finished reading it.

Uncanny that last night I spent several hours digging up research on St Peters orphanage in NH. This website is an eyeopener as well.

[link:https://www.bishop-accountability.org/|


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