POLL: Democrats More Positive About Socialism Than Capitalism

[SkyDancer]

Seeing as how this has been a rather topic lately, a new poll just came out by Gallup that says Democrats prefer socialism to capitalism. What is interesting is what seems to be a generational gap in polling where 51% of 18-29 year olds approve but those aged 65+, only 28% approve.

Democrats have a more favorable view of socialism than capitalism, according to a poll released by Gallup on Monday.

Of the Democrats who responded to the questionnaire, 57 percent view socialism positively while 47 percent view capitalism positively.


Just two years ago in 2016, 56 percent of Dems had a positive view of capitalism. But there has been little movement on their feelings towards socialism since 2010, when 53 percent of poll respondents had a positive view.

On the other hand, Republicans feel very positive about capitalism, according to the poll. In a minor bounce from 2016, 71 percent of Republicans are now in favor of capitalism while only 16 percent have positive sentiments towards socialism.

The poll comes as the popularity of self-identifying Democratic socialists like Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vermont, and New York congressional candidate Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez remains high.

Article on CBS

[spanone]

1. sounds like another divisive bullshit poll

[SkyDancer]

2. It's a Gallup poll.

[spanone]

4. yep

[Hortensis]

10. Still not credible. The questions and the context in

which they were posed would make an incredible difference. I could believe it if people were thinking of healthcare systems at the time.

But, for instance, how would they feel about no longer owning their own homes? How about going to socialized workplaces with wages set and promotions decided by a central authority a thousand miles away?

I doubt one in five could give even a somewhat accurate definition of socialism. I also cry bullshit.

[Wwcd]

12. + a million.. " I doubt one in five could give even a somewhat accurate definition of socialism"

[Hortensis]

17. Wonder what a managing authority would consider

a Coach bag should sell for? Presuming it didn't convert the factory to something more needed. No need to raise wages so some people can purchase, though, just lower the price so everyone can proudly display the little CC logo (now standing for Cost Control, or ?) on a $25 bag.

[Wwcd]

19. Yup. Socialism strips away individual power. We become a vulnerable group at the mercy of a leader.

Works as long as the leader is a fair man as Pres Obama.

But what happens whe the next elected leader is more like Stalin/Trump?

Socialism has now stripped a society of it right to thrive as individuals.

Not in a bazillion years will socialism work in a nation the size of America. We're being sold a shiny object.

It is a govt certain to be overthrown by it's own people.

Here's a good article on the reality of selling a socialistic society to a nation like America.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/349830002

SNIP
"That explains how (likely a social media intern at) CNN can tweet about how cool socialism is. It also explains how one Buzzfeed editor wished for “full communism” for Christmas, and another Buzzfeed reporter dismissed the victims of communism as a “white nationalist talking point.”

These repulsive sentiments are surprisingly common. Indeed, it is still fashionable for intellectuals — particularly those in the cozy confines of academia who never had to suffer under it — to praise the virtues of socialism. This white-washed version of history is a moral blind spot that is the Left's equivalent of Holocaust denial.

To be fair, I think those who praise socialism do so more out of ignorance than out of malice. But ignorance is not a good excuse. Those who defend socialism today rely on flawed arguments that don’t stand up to scrutiny.

Buyer Beware the shiny object.

We should have perhaps, done more to build on the foundation he left us.
America doesn't need another form of govt.
We need to secure the one we created.

[Hortensis]

64. Socialism can take various forms, of course. There never

has been a successful socialist national government, typically abysmal failures that degrade through various stages, including takeovers by conservative authoritarians (they do authoritarianism so much better), before collapsing under intense corruption and incompetence.

Successful use of socialism has been limited to those parts of government it can work well for.

Which brings us to America's socialized VA medical system, the most socialized of anything we have. And the VA is wonderful, even with its deficiencies, which are all correctable with adequate funding and leadership. Medicare certainly is not socialized medicine. So why no, zero, zilch discussion of "VA for all," even theoretically, if most of us prefer socialism?

And, itm, where's the outrage at the very idea of "privatizing" the VA? Of sacrificing our veterans and our socialism-in-hand to for-profit medicine, even in a cost-controlled version like Medicare for all would be?

Crickets. Posts about the attacks on the VA drop like rocks here on DU.

As always, the enormous dissonance between things like shallow poll responses and actual behaviors reveals stronger truths.

[JCanete]

20. Yeah, weird that if you focused on the bad ways something has been implemented

that people would react differently to it. You could do the same with Capitalism. What this probably demonstrates(I don't have time to look at this right now) is that the words themselves have lost their stigma or their prestige respectively.

It means hopefully, that we have a better chance of promoting government programs that are for the social welfare of American Citizens. It doesn't mean there's going to be an end to private property or that that extreme version of socialism has to be what people are signing on to when voting this way, even if they are knowledgable of the subject.

[sheshe2]

43. Yep.

JCanete
20. Yeah, weird that if you focused on the bad ways something has been implemented



that people would react differently to it.

Actually that reminds me of the very successful, not perfect program called ACA.

It means hopefully, that we have a better chance of promoting government programs that are for the social welfare of American Citizens.

That was what the ACA was all about and Bernie himself Finally admitted that we NEVER had the votes for single payer. It was a stepping stone for something better. Yet the whining and gnashing teeth said Obama was a sell out/ he CAVED!!!!!...and that was not from the GOP.

PS. If you or anyone elses says this will happen overnight, then you are living a dream. The countries that have such ....well, it was years and years in the making. Years! One must build from the bottom up.

PPS. Vermont could not make it work and neither could California. TO DAMN EXPENSIVE.

[lapucelle]

52. The new meaning of "socialism" as Gallup defines it

sounds remarkably like the Democratic platform.

[S]ocialism today seems to embody sets of programs by which the government helps regulate and in some instances run and pay for social programs focused on basic population needs in health, education, housing and employment.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/240725/democrats-positive-socialism-capitalism.aspx

[JCanete]

56. admitted we didn't have the votes for single payer? You realize we didnt' get a singlre republican

right? We got in our own way. That's not about admitting, that's about lamenting our own party's unwillingness to stand for a good better plan. Hell, I would have settled for a public option.

and no, I'm not as willing as you are to accept the excuse given for why Vermont and California killed these plans, and I'm not exactly sure why you'll so easily take it at face value, not even a hint of trepidation.

[SkyDancer]

60. "Too damn expensive"

Excuse me, but wtf?. It is cheaper than our current system. If we have $ for the current system which costs more, I'm sure we can figure out a way to pay for a system which costs less.

That is a Republican & Libertarian talking point against single payer health care.

We have TRILLIONS for the military industry complex, look at the latest budget Trump just got, one of the biggest of all time, yet we don't have $ for single payer? I don't think so!

People are literally dying in this country, 45,000 annually, from not having health insurance. It's disgusting, it's sick, it's shameful & it's immoral. Also, trying to link Bernie to VT's single payer failure is a dishonest & disingenuous argument. Bernie isn't a state level senator, he has literally no say in politics on the local level, no more than say Howard Dean does locally now.

Single payer also hasn't failed in California. (where are you getting this from?) SB562 is still being fought for. Meanwhile Rendon get's over $100k annually from the health insurance & big pharma lobby. Odd thing, that. Never mind SB562 passed in California's senate and is backed by a majority of Californian's with 2 different survey's showing support of 65% and 70% approval.

A legislative analysis found that California’s single-payer plan would cost $400 billion to implement, $200 billion of which would be new spending. Critics were quick to point out that this “hefty” price tag is twice the state budget. Furthermore, the bill did not include a funding plan (although the bill’s language ensured that Healthy California would not launch unless it was funded).

However, a report by professors at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, commissioned in part by National Nurses United, estimated that after taking in the savings of single-payer, such as lower administrative costs and prices of pharmaceuticals, the actual cost of the plan would end up at around $331 billion. And, because 70 percent of the state’s current health care spending is covered by public programs like Medicare and Medi-Cal, California would only need to come up with $106 billion in new revenue, which researchers proposed could be done through two new taxes (a 2.3 percent gross receipts and sales tax), with exemptions for small businesses and tax credits to offset costs for low-income families. In exchange, nearly all of Californians’ medical expenses would be covered, doing away with premiums, copays, and deductibles.

“What I think most people don’t understand is that, even with single payer we’re not going from 0 percent publicly funded to 100 percent publicly funded, we’re going from 70 percent to 100 percent,” Robert Pollin, one of the study’s authors, told the New Republic.

Nothing happens over night. Nothing. The ACA didn't happen over night. However that doesn't mean we can't start a single payer program from being implemented as soon as possible. People shouldn't be dying in the so called "greatest country on earth". I suppose that's your "American exceptionalism", eh?

[disillusioned73]

65. "That is a Republican & Libertarian talking point against single payer health care."

I see these all over the place.. take the rights position and then lament when we get steamrolled in "negotiations"..

u can't negotiate w/ terrorists.. when will ppl learn from this obvious fact??

[lapucelle]

51. Gallup suggest it's a function of the current "definition" of socialism.

Socialism as a concept is open to many interpretations. Gallup was describing socialism in questions asked in the 1940s in terms of government ownership of businesses -- something that Sanders, Ocasio-Cortez and most other left-leaning Democratic candidates have not advocated.

Instead, socialism today seems to embody sets of programs by which the government helps regulate and in some instances run and pay for social programs focused on basic population needs in health, education, housing and employment.

That sounds a lot like the 2016 Democratic Party platform.

[lapucelle]

49. Gallup addresses that issue in its analysis.

Socialism as a concept is open to many interpretations. Gallup was describing socialism in questions asked in the 1940s in terms of government ownership of businesses -- something that Sanders, Ocasio-Cortez and most other left-leaning Democratic candidates have not advocated.

Instead, socialism today seems to embody sets of programs by which the government helps regulate and in some instances run and pay for social programs focused on basic population needs in health, education, housing and employment.

[lagomorph777]

75. I assume you are not saying Socialism means people "no longer owning their own homes" etc?

You are describing Communism and wondering how many people have that conflated as Socialism?

Many people probably do, or Socialism's popularity would be a lot higher.

[lapucelle]

50. Gallup's analysis is available on line.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/240725/democrats-positive-socialism-capitalism.aspx

[lapucelle]

48. The Gallup headline is accurate, but narratives are being spun

based on the results of the polling.

47% of Democrats view capitalism positively, down from 56% in 2016
57% of Democrats now view socialism positively, little changed from 2010

For the first time in Gallup's measurement over the past decade, Democrats have a more positive image of socialism than they do of capitalism. Attitudes toward socialism among Democrats have not changed materially since 2010, with 57% today having a positive view. The major change among Democrats has been a less upbeat attitude toward capitalism, dropping to 47% positive this year -- lower than in any of the three previous measures.

snip================================

It's possible that the drop in Democrats' positive views of capitalism is related to Donald Trump's presidency. Trump is an enthusiastic capitalist, and his administration's efforts to roll back regulations on business and industry, as well as the tax cut law that is advantageous to businesses and corporations, may have caused Democrats to view the entire capitalist enterprise with less positive eyes.

The talk about the Democratic Party moving more toward socialist policies in its platforms in this year's midterm elections was muted with the failure of several socialist candidates to capture their party's nomination in recent primary voting. And, although a majority -- even if not an overwhelming one -- of Democrats nationwide react positively to the word "socialism," the strong antipathy toward socialism among Republicans and Republican-leaning independents suggests a political campaign favorable to socialism would not play well in a general election.

The narrative being framed by some who are using this poll (including right wing outlets) belies both nuance and the broad, overall conclusions that the that the data reveals.



https://news.gallup.com/poll/240725/democrats-positive-socialism-capitalism.aspx

[George II]

87. Your chart at the bottom shows that the opinions have barely budged in 8 years:

Positive Capitalism 60% to 56%
Positive Socialism 36% to 37%

At this rate (if the "trend" continues, which is unlikely anyway) Positive Capitalism will be below 50% in about 10 years, Positive Socialism will be above 50% in about 104 years!

[stonecutter357]

3. lol

[NurseJackie]

5. ...

[sheshe2]

31. Hey

[BigmanPigman]

6. My very Dem 84 year old parents

told me before the election that "socialism" is still considered a bad word to too many Americans. People forget the word "Social" is Social Security when they profess to support it and universal health care, fee college tuition, etc. When will it finally lose its negative connotations that are false and out of date?

[FiveGoodMen]

9. The negative connotations are the result of constant propaganda from the right

Stop the propaganda and things will (gradually) get better.

Can't stop the propaganda? Then kiss democracy goodbye.

[Squinch]

14. If we can't make people like the word "socialism" then we can kiss Democracy goodbye?

Well... that's just not true, there, son.

[fescuerescue]

44. We can't stop propaganda

All politicians and politicians supporters publish (in many forms) propaganda. All.

The problem is the right's propaganda has been more persuasive then our own.

Well I suppose we could stop propaganda. But that would require striking down the 1st amendment. Not in favor.

[sheshe2]

53. Frankly...

All politicians and politicians supporters publish (in many forms) propaganda. All.

The problem is the right's propaganda has been more persuasive then our own.

The ones I see today spreading propaganda is the GOP and they are now known as the party of Putin. Fact. Every last one of them.

[SkyDancer]

61. I'd go further

and say they are the party of the Aryan Brotherhood as well.

[fescuerescue]

82. Of course we see that.

Propaganda from the other side sticks out like a sore thumb.

Propaganda from own side, is as comfortable as a warm blanket and naturally, everyone that is sane can agree that a warm blanket can't possible be a bad thing. If someone calls our warm blanket something nasty like the "p" word. They are obviously deranged.

See heres the thing. The word propaganda is a loaded term. We associate it with the worst things. But it also describes positive messages, useful messages delivered by government and politics.

[disillusioned73]

66. When the corporate media stops the rightwing framing of it..

Americans(for the most part) are ignorant.. TV informs them as well as entertains them - most times in the same show..

This also applies to a lot of other issues.. the RW framing

[Wwcd]

7. Haa..I doubt the legitimacy of this entire sales pitch for normalizing socialism.

Nice try tho.
Sorry.

Next amazing poll will determine that socialism is the most popular party in America!

"MONEY & MEDIA" he said.

[sheshe2]

32. I bet Harvard Harris would do that poll!

[disillusioned73]

67. lol.. I know a certain poll killed your narrative & was disheartening..

but it's been a while..

[lapucelle]

70. There are general reliability and validity problems with the Harvard Harris poll,

but you are correct that it can have the effect of being a narrative killer.

In the most recently released HHP (June 2018), Joe Biden is the "most popular" politician overall. (Trump and Pence are tied for "most popular" politician currently serving.)

Respondents chose Joe Biden (followed by Hillary Clinton) as the person they most support as the Democratic presidential nominee in 2020.

http://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Final_HHP_Jun2018_RegisteredVoters_Topline_Memo.pdf

[disillusioned73]

74. Goodness.. 238 pgs..

that's exhausting.. lol

[sheshe2]

79. Lol

I agree, you should let it go!

[disillusioned73]

80. lmao...

u brought it up..

[lapucelle]

71. I just posted some findings from the most recent Harvard Harris CAPS poll.

It certainly is a "narrative killer".

Respondents chose Joe Biden (followed by Hillary Clinton) as the person they most support as the Democratic presidential nominee in 2020.

In addition, according to the most recent poll, Joe Biden is the "most popular politician" in the country.

[sheshe2]

72. Thank you, lapucelle.

Imagine that! Harvard Harris Poll!

Respondents chose Joe Biden (followed by Hillary Clinton) as the person they most support as the Democratic presidential nominee in 2020.

And then there is Joe again as the "most popular politician" in the country.

[ismnotwasm]

8. Look--Squirrel!

[Wwcd]

11. "Here, lemme distract you while the country's driven over the cliff"

[SkyDancer]

23. Look! We can talk and chew bubble gum!

[ismnotwasm]

30. .

[SkyDancer]

63. ....

[sheshe2]

34. Actually you don't really chew bubble gum

You blow bubbles with it.

In the end lots and lots of bubbles that just...pop!

[George II]

38. Bazinga!

[SkyDancer]

62. Yes let's never have change

and let's just go back to the way things were say in.... oh I don't know, 1960 before the civil rights act. Hard pass.

[sheshe2]

77. Exactly where did I say this?

SkyDancer
62. Yes let's never have change

and let's just go back to the way things were say in.... oh I don't know, 1960 before the civil rights act. Hard pass.

[Me.]

73. Yep

just like fake agendas do

[Squinch]

13. Hmmm... another brandy new poster who has mastered the art of creating threads that cause

lots and lots of arguments along old lines of division within DU.

We seem to be blessed with many of these lately.

[NurseJackie]

16. Warm. Warm. Getting warmer.

Things are not always as they appear.

[Squinch]

18. Wait... you don't mean... it can't possibly be...

You mean this is not just a case of an incredibly quick study????

[sheshe2]

36. well...

[George II]

39. Careful driving there dear, one false move and you just may wind up in a pinebox!

[sheshe2]

41. Lol!

I will indeed be very careful, George. No way would I want to end up in a pine box.

[SkyDancer]

24. Yes it's all a conspiracy!

A conspiracy I say!

[Squinch]

25. Thanks for confirming!

[lapucelle]

54. I'm always a little curious when there is a link to a story about the data,

but no link to the actual data. The data and Gallup's analysis give a more nuanced interpretation.

The headline of the linked CBS story is misleading:

Poll: Democrats prefer socialism to capitalism

That headline suggests a binary choice, in which case the percentages would not add up to more than 100. (47% + 57% = 104%)

https://news.gallup.com/poll/240725/democrats-positive-socialism-capitalism.aspx

[George II]

58. Assuming it truly IS a "brandy new poster". Wanna bet a cheese sandwich?

[OnDoutside]

15. Do we know who paid for this poll ?

[tirebiter]

21. Socialism would mean the state owns business

I prefer an FDR approach of regulation and taxation. We need creativity and capitalism is the better base/environment, imnsho.

It doesn't mean the gov't can't create some programs that appear socialist like Medicare and Social Security. There can be a healthy back and forth rather than either/or.

[OilemFirchen]

22. This poll is hilarious!

Socialism as a concept is open to many interpretations. Gallup was describing socialism in questions asked in the 1940s in terms of government ownership of businesses -- something that Sanders, Ocasio-Cortez and most other left-leaning Democratic candidates have not advocated. Instead, socialism today seems to embody sets of programs by which the government helps regulate and in some instances run and pay for social programs focused on basic population needs in health, education, housing and employment.

Or, as us old-timers like to call it, "General Welfare". You can read all about it in that famous socialist document, the United States Constitution.



Still not butter.

[George II]

40. Bazinga!

[calimary]

26. I find myself wondering if this isn't another Russian-engineered dirty trick.

Start laminating the word “socialism”to all things Democratic and watch the CONS keep the House in November.

Sounds like some sort of subtle trickery to me. Could they have somehow gotten inside the Gallup poll-works?

[Stinky The Clown]

28. This poster has been flogging similar since since I first noticed them.

[SkyDancer]

83. Tin foil Stinky

It is odd how so many are just down right suspicious of people who have joined Democratic Underground. It isn't a very welcoming feeling and has a tinge of paranoia to it, something I'd usually equate with conservatives.

[Stinky The Clown]

27. This is DEMOCRATIC Underground, not Bullshit Not Democratic Gathering Place

If the foo shits . . . . . yanno?

[SkyDancer]

84. And what I posted is

relevant TO OUR PARTY. Derp.

[ck4829]

29. "Socialism" has pretty much become the right's go-to thing for anything they don't like

You want everyone to have healthcare? You're a socialist.
You're a liberal? You're a socialist.
You're a Democrat? You're a socialist.
You survived a school shooting? You're a socialist.
You don't think you should sacrifice your life for a billionaire to have a luxury he doesn't need and will only use once? You're a socialist.
You don't see Patrick Bateman from American Psycho as your personal inspiration? You're a socialist.
(Near future) You don't want to throw virgins into volcanoes to appease the Dow and the job creators? You're a socialist.

Socialist. Socialist. Socialist.

YOU are a socialist according to the right wing which dominates the government today.

[David__77]

33. im favorable toward both to some extent.

I think using the state power to guide the economy and to control public goods is just fine. I also think that a regulated private economic sector can do a lot of good!

[LexVegas]

35. ...

[George II]

37. Unless I missed it, I see that the poll analysis has no definitions of "socialism" or "capitalism"..

...in the context of the question.

I would venture a guess that many of the respondents don't have a clear understanding of what either actually is.

And I see we're getting into that "popularity" thing again. Ooops.

[fescuerescue]

45. I think that's true, but I don't think it matters

Ultimately socialism and capitalism both have their own social baggage.

We can't force the entire US population to read the legal, Webster definitions of those words and force them to learn it. Unfortunately, everyone has their own definition, including Mr Webster.

To get a read on the population, it's actually better if they use their own personal definitions, rather than textbook one. Because when it comes down to how they vote, you can bet they will use their personal definition.

[sheshe2]

46. I quote.

"bazinga!"

[radical noodle]

42. Here's the thing

It's the Republicans and divisive troublemakers who want to attach the socialism label to us. There's no need to help them with that. Propose any good program that helps people with health care or anything else and they'll be more than happy to call us socialists. Don't fall for it.

[Devil Child]

47. Interesting and hopeful to see if this maintains

For any who are interested here are some additional links on the polling

Gallup's page on the poll:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/240725/democrats-positive-socialism-capitalism.aspx

Full methodology, and none of the terms used (socialism, capitalism) are defined:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/240770/americans-views-economic-systems-economic-components-federal-government-trends.aspx?g_source=link_newsv9&g_campaign=item_240725&g_medium=copy

[lapucelle]

55. Gallup's analysis includes the following.

Socialism as a concept is open to many interpretations. Gallup was describing socialism in questions asked in the 1940s in terms of government ownership of businesses -- something that Sanders, Ocasio-Cortez and most other left-leaning Democratic candidates have not advocated.

Instead, socialism today seems to embody sets of programs by which the government helps regulate and in some instances run and pay for social programs focused on basic population needs in health, education, housing and employment.

The positive view of socialism has been consistent for the last 8 years.

57% of Democrats now view socialism positively, little changed from 2010

[regnaD kciN]

57. In other words, when people say "Democratic Socialists," they really mean "Social Democrats"...

...which would be considered rather middle-of-the-road in most European countries.

[lapucelle]

69. Those are other words, but they are neither mine nor Gallup's.

The real problem with these labels is that they are penumbra under which many variations fall, including the Nordic model, the Third Way, and social corporatism. When amorphous labels start to mean anything, they actually mean nothing.

The core values and the policy principles of the Democratic party are fully and comprehensively articulated in the 2016 Democratic Party platform.

https://www.democrats.org/party-platform

[rogerashton]

59. Although I consider myself a democratic socialist,

I think it is best to avoid the word because it means so many different things to different people -- as many responses here illustrate.

The real issue is -- how do we limit the political power of money? Is it possible to do that at all? if not, then democracy will be a sham --but, for that matter, capitalism will also be a sham, since capitalism requires a level playing field for competition, and that cannot exist while big money dominates "crony capitalism."

[disillusioned73]

68. K&R..

No better way to get right wingers in a stir, than a poll like that..

[SkyDancer]

85. Yup

Odd how so many be almost scared to embrace the word yet the times are changing and guess what? People aren't afraid of it any longer and the GOP has been screaming it for ages which is nothing more than a Boy Who Cried Wolf scenario. People want government TO HELP THEM & better their lives and that includes the massive support social support & a social safety net has.

[NCTraveler]

76. That's very interesting considering everyone from Manchin to Sanders is a blatant capitalist. nt

[Squinch]

78. Gracious. I don't think this thread went the way you wanted it to. Thoughts and prayers.

[SkyDancer]

86. It went just fine. Thanks for the kick! Bless your heart.

[heaven05]

81. Socialist-democrats of america

self-aggrandizement and preening for attention. No thanks, read it earlier. Still not impressed or believing this.