Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez perfectly shuts down Ben Shapiro's pesky challenge to debate

[Uncle Joe]

Conservative and notorious racist Ben Shapiro is apparently, like many right-wing commentators, obsessed with New York Democratic congressional candidate Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and so he decided this week to offer a $10,000 donation to her campaign in exchange for having a debate.

(snip)

"Just like catcalling, I don’t owe a response to unsolicited requests from men with bad intentions," she said of the demands that she debate Shapiro. "And also like catcalling, for some reason they feel entitled to one."

The brief comment exposed a lot about the reaction to Ocasio-Cortez's candidacy. Since she won her district primary race in a stunning upset, Ocasio-Cortez has drawn extensive criticism from the right — completely out of proportion to the attention paid to the hundreds of other congressional candidates across the country.

The tweet points out the gendered dimension of this attention. As a young woman candidate for national office, many people expect her to earn her place in a way that older, more established (and usually male) candidates are never expected to. There seems to be a misogynistic assumption that, because she's a woman, she needs to justify her candidacy in some special way — especially when it's a man who is making the demand.

(snip)

https://www.salon.com/2018/08/10/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-shuts-down-ben-shapiro-and-his-calls-for-a-debate_partner/

[OrwellwasRight]

10. I thought we were supposed to support Democrats on this site?

n/t

[Hortensis]

14. We should be honest. Ocasio needs to avoid debate.

She's 28, new to public affairs and politics, political science even, and unschooled on almost every issue. It would be a very risky move at best. Presumably she'll debate in future elections after a steep 2-year learning curve.

But most of us believe candidates should get up on that debate stage and show the electorate who they are and what they have to offer. We may accept pragmatically but hardly admire refusal as the wisest political move.

[OrwellwasRight]

16. No, she's great.

I saw here tale the stage at Netroots after a big calling out by the self-title #BlackAssCaucus. The room was tense and she worked it. However, political candidate only debate their political candidates. Not pundits. She was right.

[Hortensis]

24. She has a talent for being on stage. That should not

be mistaken for other abilities, nor be allowed to mislead one into becoming a follower.

We have no idea now, but if she combines that talent with the ability to quickly become a competent public servant and the character to be true to her electorate and the principles of democracy, she will be potentially great.

[OrwellwasRight]

29. Are you always this dubious of first time candidates?

Sounds like you are trying to discredit her (and her supporters) when you say "nor be allowed to mislead one into becoming a follower." "Mislead"? Did you say that when Hillary ran for Senate when she had held no prior elected office?

[Hortensis]

32. Orwell, hopefully she'll turn out to be a great politician.

I'm afraid she may be a Sanders type personality-wise, wired to opposition and derailment instead of achievement, and unable to realize it. Some people love that. I do not. But in any case she created my concern. We'll see.

Itm, we're struggling for national survival after spoilers, who believed those who spread much of the same kind of disinformation that Russia and the GOP did about our Democratic candidates and goals, helped put these people in power.

[OrwellwasRight]

60. No, the failure of

Last edited Tue Aug 14, 2018, 09:40 PM - Edit history (1)

Democratic candidates to run a good campaign, designed to win the right states, and drive sufficient turnout, put those people in office. Progressives did not put those people in office. And a big giant photo does not make your argument any more correct.

Clinton did worse (slightly) with voters of color than Obama did. That could have made a huge difference in PA. She did not win the critical states of PA, OH, WI, and/or MI. Trump did about the same with people of color as Romney. Both were all-time unpopular candidates -- meaning we could have chosen better. And if you want to blame third-party voters, Gary Johnson got WAY more than Jill Stein, so get rid of those candidates and Trump has even MORE votes.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/9/18/16305486/what-really-happened-in-2016

This book explains how the campaign was ill-managed:
https://www.npr.org/2017/04/18/524338718/shattered-picks-through-the-broken-pieces-of-hillary-clintons-dream

Quit blaming progressives for the unpopularity of pro-Wall Street policies.

[George II]

47. Did you see her the other day on CNN? In discussing the cost of healthcare...

... and Medicare for all, she said the cost of funerals due to poor healthcare isn't factored in!

So, if I have GOOD healthcare I'm never going to die and need a funeral?

[Uncle Joe]

18. Can you name any political candidate in U.S. history that debated or was EXPECTED to debate a pundit

as a means of coming to office?

Alexandria is new and young but she's also exceptionally bright and wise beyond her years, I believe she will learn very fast and become a major force in U.S. politics.

[Hortensis]

25. Uncle Joe, she's made a number of stupid mistakes,

at least one hopes they were mistakes and not revelations of the true person. Admiring people for what is admirable about them is part of being wise, but choosing to pretend all the unknowns must also be admirable is how bad leaders get elected.

Since she has no record to scrutinize, it's time to step back and watch, and yes to hope. That's what responsible voters do.

[Uncle Joe]

28. Hortensis, you never answered my question.

n you name any political candidate in U.S. history that debated or was EXPECTED to debate a pundit

as a means of coming to office?

The issue is not "pragmatically" it's precedent

Furthermore Alexandria was more than willing to debate her political opponent in the Democratic primaries but he chose not to, would that qualify as a "stupid mistake?"

Every political leader since the founding of our nation has made mistakes, that didn't disqualify many of them from being overall great leaders.

As Alexandria has no record to speak of one must go by her proclaimed issues and proposed policies and in this I believe on the vast majority she is on the right and moral side of history.

[Hortensis]

36. The issue I address is competence, not just

in our candidates, but in ourselves as citizens.

If you like searching history, maybe find out how many 28-year-old's without records turn out to be really good public servants. Or not. Details like old numbers and names no one would bother to remember don't matter, when only one is in question.

Which is why I'm talking about what IS important: Blind faith. To quote a major beneficiary of it, "BAD!" If Trump voters found out what was behind curtain #3 FIRST, he'd be in Trump Tower franchising his name on potato chips right now.

Support her, sure, just don't be a True Believer. It's years too soon.

[Uncle Joe]

40. Alexandria is perfectly suited for the House should she be elected, if she is not

competent then her constituents aka; citizens will vote her out on reelection.

At least that's the theory behind our grand experiment as a democratic republic.

A double standard is believing that because you differ with an otherwise perfectly qualified candidate on the issues, or because they're too young for your tastes, perhaps the wrong gender or ethnicity that said candidate should break historical precedent and jump through some special hoop (s) created just for them that no other political leader in our nation's history was/is expected to face.

The Constitution is quite clear as to what the qualifications are in being elected to the Congress and no where does it state that a 28 year old nominee should be expected to debate a pundit to prove their "competence,"even if you believe that Shapiro or any other pundit speaks for you.

If you're sincere about supporting her then you would automatically know this.

Believing a candidate has great potential and supporting said candidate because of their position on the issues has nothing to do with "blind faith" but nice try.

[erronis]

56. Thank you - I would have said the same if I had enough erudition.

What is happening now at DU? Are we prejudging everything any potential candidate might, or might not, do? Isn't this just a form of divisiveness - perhaps couched as worrying about abilities?

I know I'm seeing a lot more "out of left field" comments that don't seem to look at winning the general elections and seem to be trying to make us into lots of splinter groups.

[Uncle Joe]

58. Thank you for the kind words erronis.

I believe it to be more emotional than logical.

A fear of mortality; as an established age passes which to one degree or another we all have.

[OrwellwasRight]

72. +1

[melman]

35. No she hasn't

But what does this mean ---> ''at least one hopes they were mistakes and not revelations of the true person''

Please explain.

[George II]

48. I'm not sure, but didn't Sanders debate a news person (pundit) earlier this year?

Just about every interview of any candidate is a short version of a debate. Jonathan Capehart vs. Nancy Pelosi this morning is a good example. She won with flying colors.

[Uncle Joe]

49. Interviews and debates are NOT the same, the vast majority of candidates and politicians

have held interviews, NONE in U.S. history had or were EXPECTED to have a debate with a pundit as a means to reach office.

Definition of interview
1 : a formal consultation usually to evaluate qualifications (as of a prospective student or employee)
2 a : a meeting at which information is obtained (as by a reporter, television commentator, or pollster) from a person
b : a report or reproduction of information so obtained


https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/interview

Definition of debate
: a contention by words or arguments Our polite chat about politics became a heated debate. The case sparked a raging public debate on property rights. : such as
a law, government : the formal discussion of a motion (see 1motion 3a) before a deliberative body according to the rules of parliamentary procedure
b : a regulated discussion of a proposition (see 1proposition 1b) between two matched sides the last presidential debate before the election the debate's moderator

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/debate

Alexandria has held multiple interviews and no doubt will hold many more.

[George II]

52. I know the definitions of interviews and debates, thank you!

If your highlighted sentence is what a "debate" is supposed to be between two candidates in American politics, we haven't seen a debate in decades.

[Uncle Joe]

53. You mean there were no debates in 2016?

[George II]

54. None that matched your highlighted definition of "debate".

[Uncle Joe]

55. I agree that Presidential debates could use major improvement in regards to their moderation

but currently they're still the closest thing to a debate that we have.

[elias7]

19. Candidates should debate, but he's not a candidate

He is a Repub talking head and not only are his intentions dishonorable, but so likely are his debating techniques. She is right on this one. I think refusal in this case is a wise political move, which to me indicates she is working her way up a steep learning curve.

[Hortensis]

26. :) Yes. And I'm not going to regret that she has

no Republican opponent whom she would have a duty to stand before the voters with.

As it is, it's almost certainly all settled. 5% of the voters in that district voted for her, 11% of the Democrats, and so she effectively is the choice 100% of them made.

[fishwax]

31. nobody expects candidates to debate random wealthy opposition activists

Her response is pretty spot on, and does a pretty good job of showing who she is and what she has to offer.

[melman]

33. 'It would be a very risky move at best'

A very risky move to debate Ben Shapiro? Give me a fucking break!

[Merlot]

34. "...unschooled on almost every issue?"

Can that statement be supported? I've heard her talk, she seems as adept as any other politician on the issues.

I do admire the refusal to be bullied to debating someone who is NOT her oponent.

[RhodeIslandOne]

38. I think she'd be fine against that fucking moron Ben Shapiro

Gish gallop is not an acceptable form of debate despite what fuckhead mayos claim on YouTube.

[Bettie]

43. Apparently that isn't a hard and fast rule

anymore. Several "big cats" around here have decided they don't like Ms. Ocasio-Cortez and must tell us that she is unworthy several times a day.

She was going to debate her opponent in the primary. He declined to appear at the debates. She certainly has no obligation to debate Shapiro.

I suspect that there are those around here who hope that the third party candidate wins.

[OrwellwasRight]

61. This site is becoming less and less likable every time I visit.

I had hoped all the HRC-Sanders rehash was over. But now the venom is turned to Ocasio-Cortez and other progressive candidates.

[Bettie]

64. There is still a LOT of good

just have to learn to scroll past the stuff you know will just be annoying.

[RhodeIslandOne]

37. LOL. No it wasn't it was great

She basically told them to go fuck themselves. Now a bunch of incel white boys are crying about how mean she was.

[backtoblue]

46. I thought it was a great response as well nt

[MaryMagdaline]

41. I thought it was shrewd

Her constituents get the crazy-guy-on-the-Street vision who is owed nothing and will only slow us down

[H2O Man]

2. Recommended.

Alexandria is The Best!

[Uncle Joe]

3. I agree H2O Man

I believe Alexandria has a bright political future ahead of her.

[MichMary]

4. Right wing media

is all over this, spinning it to make it look like she is "afraid" to debate because she would lose, doesn't know her facts, is stupid, etc. She has made some very serious gaffes, which are being replayed constantly on Faux Nooz.

Shapiro backed her into a corner with this, and the whole "catcalling" analogy was--lame. If her R opponent challenges her to a debate, will she also refuse on the grounds that he is male, and it's catcalling?

By debating him she could have had a platform and an opportunity to present her ideas and back them up.

[H2O Man]

5. She's running for office.

He's not.

[dembotoz]

6. Job 1 is her district. Not debate with a fool

[H2O Man]

8. Years ago,

my friend Rubin Carter asked me what do you have when a wise person argues with a fool? Two fools.

Job 1 is exactly as you said.

[oberliner]

62. Hurricane Carter?

[H2O Man]

65. Yes.

[oberliner]

68. That is amazing that you knew him

Last edited Mon Aug 13, 2018, 05:34 PM - Edit history (1)

Definitely someone I admired greatly.

[H2O Man]

69. We were

close friends for over 40 years. Rubin was an amazing human being. All four of my children knew and loved him.

I have things ranging from when he was a boxer -- his fight with Emile Griffith was the first fight I watched on tv -- through letters, etc, and a lot of the defense materials (I assisted). Lately, I've considered writing a book on him. (I have the some of drafts of his first autobiography, worked with him on the second, and had him contribute a chapter to another on forgiveness.)

[oberliner]

70. They both should be required reading

Especially today.

[Nanjeanne]

9. I can't wait for all the Republican candidates to start debating progressive radio hosts.

She should have accepted this stunt? Dear me.

[Uncle Joe]

11. It's the right wing media that's afraid of Alexandria but even more so the message

that she presents.

Debating a racist like Shapiro does nothing to further the cause.

Alexandria is coming to power and she will have a platform, that's what neanderthals like Shapiro fear most.

[bigtree]

15. debating Schapiro would give HIM a platform

...she doesn't need that asshat to help her promote her views.

Her 'R' opponent is virtually nameless. Ignoring him ensures that he remains in obscurity. You generally only debate opponents if you're behind.

And she's correct about the catcalling. They're in no position to talk down to her, but they apparently believe they have some right to her attention and response, just by virtue of their heness.

Schapiro and republicans are flailing around, self-flagellating over AOC. It's a beautiful thing to behold.

[H2O Man]

17. Well said.

[Uncle Joe]

20. Precisely bigtree and that skid mark on the nation's underwear doesn't need another platform

than the one he already has.

If Shapiro is so fired up to debate all he needs to do is run for political office.

[standingtall]

23. Debating him is waste of time

First off debating him would be a waste of time. The debate would've only been on some venue where nothing but right wingers would watch anyway. Secondly he is not running for elected office

[melman]

39. Shapiro is a clown

Why should she even give him the time of day? She shouldn't.


btw, this here: "right wing media is all over this, spinning it to make it look like she is "afraid" to debate because she would lose, doesn't know her facts, is stupid, etc"


You certainly don't need to go to right wing media to see that. People are doing it right here in this very thread. And it's pathetic.

[MaryMagdaline]

42. I don't listen to RWers snd neither does she

This is our country and we’re not stopping to chit-chat with hecklers

[Bettie]

44. If her Opponent asks her to debate

that is legitimate, it is part of running for office.

This other guy? He's not running for office in her district or anywhere else. She has zero obligation there.

[Nanjeanne]

7. It's insane that this is even a thing. And disappointing to know there are ppl who

are playing into this stupidity. She is running for office. Why should she “debate” a political commentator and radio host?

AOC is extremely articulate and passionate. She will be a terrific addition to the House. The rest is just noise.

[Uncle Joe]

12. I agree on all counts Nanjeanne.

[H2O Man]

13. "

[Hassin Bin Sober]

59. She really gets under the skins of both republican incels and angry shut-ins.

[ooky]

21. Isn't she heavily favored to win her district?

That alone would be reason enough for her not to debate anybody. Much less a Fox News hack.

How about offer $10k for the Republican candidates to debate Lawrence O'Donnell or Joy Reid or Rachel Maddow. See how fast they accept.

[Uncle Joe]

22. Yes she is and I agree pundit to pundit debates could be most useful

[Uncle Joe]

30. I agree, she is too intelligent and focused on the task ahead to be side tracked.

Welcome to D.U. natashasouthphilly

[gopiscrap]

45. welcome to DU

[Judi Lynn]

50. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is a welcome breath of fresh air. Thank you, Uncle Joe. n/t

[Uncle Joe]

51. She is and thank you Judi Lynn. n/t

[Autumn]

63. What makes Shapiro think she would ever need to debate him?

He's nothing.

[Uncle Joe]

66. He's a legend in his own mind.

[Autumn]

67. His very small mind.

[ecstatic]

71. Lol. Good one, I chuckled, but

I'm really interested in hearing the reaction of DU men.