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Fri Aug 10, 2018, 11:40 AM

Currently, the United States has no vehicle capable of taking people

into space. We rely on the Russians to transport our people to the ISS. So, how is this "Space Force" nonsense going to happen? Will we contract with Russia for services?

The Republicans have successfully destroyed our manned space program. Who believes that they'll back Trump and Pence's "Space Farce?"

It's just another bullshit distraction from the scandal that is the current administration. Don't be taken in by it.

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Reply Currently, the United States has no vehicle capable of taking people (Original post)
MineralMan Aug 2018 OP
Historic NY Aug 2018 #1
Recursion Aug 2018 #2
Historic NY Aug 2018 #24
Kablooie Aug 2018 #3
dalton99a Aug 2018 #11
FakeNoose Aug 2018 #37
lostnfound Aug 2018 #50
Brother Buzz Aug 2018 #4
Jersey Devil Aug 2018 #5
Proud Liberal Dem Aug 2018 #6
thegoose Aug 2018 #16
Solly Mack Aug 2018 #7
oberliner Aug 2018 #8
kimbutgar Aug 2018 #9
shraby Aug 2018 #10
Liberal In Texas Aug 2018 #12
OnlinePoker Aug 2018 #34
awesomerwb1 Aug 2018 #13
scarytomcat Aug 2018 #33
awesomerwb1 Aug 2018 #35
scarytomcat Aug 2018 #36
marylandblue Aug 2018 #14
MineralMan Aug 2018 #15
Moostache Aug 2018 #27
joshcryer Aug 2018 #17
MineralMan Aug 2018 #18
joshcryer Aug 2018 #19
MineralMan Aug 2018 #20
joshcryer Aug 2018 #21
cos dem Aug 2018 #30
magicarpet Aug 2018 #39
MicaelS Aug 2018 #43
MineralMan Aug 2018 #45
Saboburns Aug 2018 #44
joshcryer Aug 2018 #46
Saboburns Aug 2018 #47
bdamomma Aug 2018 #22
Thomas Hurt Aug 2018 #23
saidsimplesimon Aug 2018 #28
paulkienitz Aug 2018 #25
saidsimplesimon Aug 2018 #26
Moostache Aug 2018 #29
FakeNoose Aug 2018 #38
world wide wally Aug 2018 #31
relayerbob Aug 2018 #32
LiberalLovinLug Aug 2018 #40
Hekate Aug 2018 #41
Blue_true Aug 2018 #42
paulkienitz Aug 2018 #49
Blue_true Aug 2018 #53
paulkienitz Aug 2018 #54
Blue_true Aug 2018 #55
AncientGeezer Aug 2018 #48
Algernon Moncrieff Aug 2018 #51
tavernier Aug 2018 #52

Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 11:45 AM

1. Space Hummer's....

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 11:46 AM

2. Let me tell you about the M2 Space Bradley... (nt)

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Response to Recursion (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 01:29 PM

24. Maybe Elon Musk can build some rockets for the Space Force....

how else will they patrol space looking for Klingon's

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 11:46 AM

3. Contract with Russia. Exactly!

It's another way for Trump to shuttle money over to the Russian oligarchs that he in deep debt to.

This may be the truth.

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Response to Kablooie (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 11:55 AM

11. +1

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #11)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 02:43 PM

37. Good luck with that!



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Response to Kablooie (Reply #3)

Sat Aug 11, 2018, 07:10 AM

50. It may also provide cover for the Russians to proceed with weaponizing space?

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 11:47 AM

4. We have launch vehicle capable of sending people into space

It's the pesky Russian made RD180 engines that are the problem. Without them, out rockets are just glorified yard decorations.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 11:47 AM

5. We have a secret ship (The Enterprise) to be piloted by Captain Video

The crew members will be called Video Rangers.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 11:50 AM

6. It's a total farce

We have so many problems down here on Planet Earth (note: I'm not saying that space exploration isn't important or that I'm being a luddite) that need to be resolved, not the least of which is helping citizens recover from a natural disaster (Puerto Rico), reuniting immigrant children with their parents, and, of course, securing our elections, before we start talking about building a "Space Force".


Besides, nobody (and certainly not us) "own" outer space, so we really ought to focus on joint international efforts to colonize space, though I know that Dolt 45 doesn't believe in engaging in any kind of meaningful international relations unless you're an autocratic dictator.

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #6)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 12:40 PM

16. And dumping Dump

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 11:51 AM

7. Thoughts and prayers. Duh.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 11:51 AM

8. France has a Space Force

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 11:53 AM

9. Before the country goes to space it needs to care of problems on earth.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 11:54 AM

10. I was wondering the same thing myself. Maybe they just want to put missiles in space

and point them at earth until they wear out and come falling back into the atmosphere causing a huge boom and radiation fallout.

Yup, they got a man with a plan.

They sure are a buncha losers aren't they?

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 11:57 AM

12. They're working on it.

https://www.nasa.gov/exploration/systems/orion/index.html
It's called Orion.


My son is one of the project manager types at JSC.

It's going to be awhile before it flies with a human crew. It would also be nice to know what kind of missions are expected of it.

BTW, the folks at JSC think the Space Force is a joke and will never happen.

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Response to Liberal In Texas (Reply #12)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 02:16 PM

34. It's interesting that they would reuse the moniker "Orion"

That was the name of the nuclear rocket project in the 50's and 60's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_%28nuclear_propulsion%29

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 12:07 PM

13. Will give the republicans/trumpers

another reason to be nicer to Russia since we'll rely on them to transport the courageous members of the Space Force into space.

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Response to awesomerwb1 (Reply #13)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 02:14 PM

33. I doubt Russia will want to help us since we have an agreement with them to not arm space!!!

why should they anyway???????????

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Response to scarytomcat (Reply #33)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 02:16 PM

35. Yeah, we also wanted to build a joint

cyber security group with them very recently.

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Response to awesomerwb1 (Reply #35)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 02:21 PM

36. yes

with Russia crazy stuff

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #14)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 12:35 PM

15. Hey! That's classified Top Secret FUBAR.

You're sure in trouble now...

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #14)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 01:56 PM

27. TOP SECRET: Training images leaked onto dark web...

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 12:41 PM

17. SpaceX should be flying people next year.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #17)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 12:44 PM

18. Yes, and?

It's a private operation, not a part of the military. It seems to be doing pretty well, so far, at launching payloads. We'll see how it does with people. But, their operation is a transport thing, not really designed for long stays in space. I don't see it as useful to the military, except for launching orbital payloads.

I'm not a big Elon Musk fan, really.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #18)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 12:48 PM

19. I'm not paying much attention to the "Space Force" thing.

It's entirely an administrative move, mostly spy satellites and other military stuff that has been in limbo and managed by several administrations through complex rules, any PR coming from this administration over it is bluster. It's not an actual "thing."

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #19)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 12:50 PM

20. Yes. We already have military involvement in space.

There's no need for a separate "force." It's a distraction Trump is using to try to take people's minds off Trump. It won't work. As a comedy bit, though, the US Space Force is great fodder for the late night jokesters.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #20)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 12:58 PM

21. The military's space budget dwarfed NASA's for a time.

We were sending up a spy satellite every couple of weeks after 9/11. At the time though the military was responsible for the payloads and NASA was responsible for the launching. All this "Space Force" thing is doing is putting the onus on another administration to do all the details. It's purely administrative and in fact most of the same people that did it before will be doing it now, they'll just be changing offices.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #21)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 02:09 PM

30. NASA does not operate launch vehicles anymore.

...and NASA was responsible for the launching...


This hasn't really been true since the mid '80s, when NASA did have a monopoly with the Shuttle. This was a stupid decision even before Challenger, but that accident made the stupidity obvious even to the most ardent Shuttle booster.

Since then, programs like Atlas, Titan, Delta are vehicles primarily developed for DoD programs, to DoD specifications (mostly Air Force, but there are some Navy satellite programs). These programs were used to move pretty much all space lift operations (i.e. putting satellites in orbit) out of Shuttle, with the obvious exception of ISS.

With Shuttle retirement, NASA no longer has any operational space lift capability, manned or unmanned. They did have one demo launch several years ago, that ended up being cancelled. And, they're trying to get back into the game. But really, the Shuttle program was a huge mistake that NASA is still paying for. Instead of funding new technology, massive $$$ were spent keeping Shuttle flying.

The choice of, and responsibility for, the launch vehicle is almost always the payload owner. Even NASA launches plenty of things on rockets they buy from outside:
Mars Pathfinder - Delta II (I got to see this one)
Cassini - Titan IV
New Horizons - Atlas 5

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #21)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 02:51 PM

39. I think they want to decimate NASA and shut it down. Then privatize the new Space Force idea.

Not operations like Elon Musk and his Space X or Richard Branson and his Virgin Galactic. Those operations will be used to move NASA crews to the space station, launch satellites, and take rich folk on a $100K amusement ride above earth, just beyond the outer atmosphere.

This new Space Force will comprise privatized space based weapons systems and the likes of Lockheed/Martin, Raytheon, Northrop Grumman and General Dynamics want to set up a whole new military division like the Air Force but it will be called the Space Force. Billions upon billions of new taxpayer dollars will be appropriated separate from the military budget and an other avenue will be establish for privatized military/space contractors to siphon off more money from the US Treasury into director's, executive's and stockholders pockets from the wallets of the common taxpayers.

Many countries and the United Nations have hammered out agreements and treaties not to weaponize space. Apparently trDump and the privatized military warmongers intend to decree that any agreements not to weaponize space - null and void.

Implementing the boondoggle of Space Force seems to be on the fast track - from an idea on paper and going gang busters into reality and development.

Lots of money will flow from OUT OF THE POCKETS of those on the bottom and middle income levels - then INTO THE WALLETS of those on the top income levels - all gift wrapped with the pretty little bow - and the under the guise of being done in the best interests of protecting American national security.

Create a new fear - then throw gobs and gobs of money at it - so the fear goes away, and then you feel safe and better about it.

Just a new way to fleece and swindle the masses out of their hard earned taxed dollars.


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Response to MineralMan (Reply #18)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 03:26 PM

43. I'm a huge Musk fan.

I do not care about his politics. I care about the fact he is pushing technology to it's limits. I am Pro-Space exploration, including humans, but not the militarization of space.

Musk and Bezos are really trying to do something. And that is more to say than ANY administration or party has done for a long time.

For too long both parties have not supported spaceflight. Some have claimed the money should be spent on Earth on people, others want to cut NASA's miniscule budget to spend on DOD.

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Response to MicaelS (Reply #43)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 03:51 PM

45. OK...

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #17)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 03:31 PM

44. I am not picking a fight honest

I am not picking a fight honest, I just want to point out something because I am a space need now going on 50 years. And I'm a big fan of the (semi) private space companies ULA, SpaceX, Blue Origin. There's a few others just starting up.

My point is that it's sadly true the US Government nor NASA have a rocket ready to fly people to space. SpaceX does with Falcon 9 (LEO only), Falcon Heavy (flown just once has the thrust to get to Moon or Mars). The rockets are ready now, its the crew quarters which need proving. Was supposed to be this year, but looks like will be flown early next year.

ULA had Atlas 5 ready and reliable now. Same thing, crew quarters to be tested early next year. ULA has a much larger rocket the Vulcan coming out 2020 as well capable of Moon or Mars.

None of these things are why I started this post. I started this post to say that the US Army doesn't build tanks, guns, or bullets. Navy doesn't build ships. Air Force doesn't build planes.

They buy them from private companies, private companies like SpaceX or ULA.

NASA is building the SLS heavy lift rocket, but I think it's 50-50 if it will ever fly humans. Costs ten times it would cost to use private companies stuff.

The near future manned spaceflight will be on private launch vehicles. Just like we did when we went to the moon in the 60s. Saturn 5 was built by Boeing, Douglas Aircraft Corp,, and North American Aviation.

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Response to Saboburns (Reply #44)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 04:40 PM

46. I don't know what the delay is, tbh.

Dragon had to be man rated since it connects to the ISS. The Manned Dragon is going to have much of the same stuff in it, except it'll have seats and whatnot. The unique pusher system seems to be a the main setback because they initially were going to have the nozzles go through the heat shield but changed it so that they're on the sides.



My most viewed video on YouTube was posted 8 years ago though:



SpaceX went ahead with developing the manned aspect of the system long before they had approval. It's still taken almost a decade.

But yeah once they launch they'll be significantly cheaper per-seat than the Russians ever thought about being and if humans ever fly on a refurbished Falcon 9 then we're talking 401k level prices (ie someone with a big retirement fund could absolutely fly in to space).

My dream to retire on Mars when I'm in my 70s may work out.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #46)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 04:44 PM

47. Indeed.

The escape system failed a ground test. It looks to be easily fixable and should not take months to fix.

But I'm okay with being extra careful, extra diligent when people climb aboard.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 01:01 PM

22. They are not getting

their wall are they, so they have to BS into another venture, space. What jerks.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 01:06 PM

23. Another of the Pig's vanity grifts...

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Response to Thomas Hurt (Reply #23)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 01:58 PM

28. Vanity thy name

is just another grift for a fool, a fake, a mountebank, the putin tool, criminal in our White House

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 01:49 PM

25. Can't I have a frickin' Starliner capsule with frickin' laser beams attached to it?

I mean, a Dragon 2 capsule that can tunnel underground is cool, but it doesn't exactly scream "space force" when you're tunneling underground, does it?

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 01:51 PM

26. "It's just another bullshit distraction..."

Thank you for all that you do.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 01:59 PM

29. Monosyllabic Pap for the base to chant and Orange Ass to preen to at rallies...

"Lock Her Up"
"Build The Wall"
"Fake News"
"Bad People"

and coming soon.....<drum roll please>... "Space Force" (now with 2X the stupid grin)

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Response to Moostache (Reply #29)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 02:45 PM

38. You forgot "No Collusion!"

Whoops, never mind!

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 02:10 PM

31. Putin just wants us to pay for research and development

Then Trump will hand it over to him.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 02:10 PM

32. Haven't you heard of Star Gates????

It's all been hidden by Deep State

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 03:00 PM

40. ...

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 03:01 PM

41. Right. Squirrel!!!

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 03:06 PM

42. My guess is they will bring in private companies.

Elon Musk eats up a lot of print about space, but my money is on Jeff Bezos' company to deliver real innovation that will make near earth space travel and a journey to Mars possible.

At any rate, I see the military hitching a ride on the efforts of a private company. And I see hundreds billions, if not trillions wasted as graft and corruption become common as companies flood in to grab a piece of the pie. It's Trump's space border wall.

Not that we don't need intercept capability in space. If a rogue asteroid that is large enough come at us now, we are done. Scientists don't understand enough about our solar system or Galaxy to say with certainty what may be coming our way. Two scientists from Stanford have done simulations that say that there is another large body beyond Neptune, but despite elaborate telescope installations and the Hubble, no one has found that body and no one knows exactly what it is (large planet, brown dwarf, or some previously unknown celestial body). It is in the realm of the possible for a celestial shift to happen in the Galaxy and all type of stuff that is in the Solar System's outer perimeter gets send into the solar system to eventually crash into stuff.

I think that Trump's Space force is a stupid idea simply because we don't have anything remotely close to the Technology to make early applications effective and cost efficient. China supposedly destroyed a dummy satellite in space, but who knows wether their claim is real or what enhancements they used to have a missile locate the satellite.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #42)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 05:55 PM

49. Bezos is not gonna beat Musk

First, Musk got where he is by approaching problems from a viewpoint of basic physics -- he understands what he's doing better than Bezos does. Second, both Bezos and Musk are betting on overly huge rockets but it's looking more and more like the big economic winner is going to belong to whoever can more cheaply serve small-lift customers, and Musk wins there because the Falcon is smaller and cheaper than the Glenn, and if the BFR is built it's far more reusable than the Glenn, which has not even the beginnings of any effort toward reusing upper stages. And anyone who makes a BFR could easily also make a SmallFR if that's what's profitable.

You know who might beat them both, profit-wise? Boeing. They're making a suborbital spaceplane called the Phantom Express which will be used as a first stage for rapid military launches. They aim to show that they can launch it ten times in ten days. When that gets commercialized, half of the little new-space startups will be sunk, and both Bezos and Musk might lose a lot of business quickly.

There are also ventures in Spain of all places to build small reusable rockets. With small sizes it becomes feasible to do reuse with simple parachutes. I don't know why there aren't a dozen companies working in that direction... the ones that don't are going to get their asses handed to them.

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Response to paulkienitz (Reply #49)

Sat Aug 11, 2018, 12:20 PM

53. Not sure about your analysis of Musk v Bezos.

Bezos is like the card shark that rides into town, it is not the cards that you see in his hands that you have to worry about. Musk is an open book, IMO, you see all that he has at all times.

I like the Boeing idea, a plane that can generate enough speed to escape earth's gravity then propel itself through space on a small fuel load could works well, if it also had life support capability in a vacuum. Maybe a large plane that allow occupants to un strap and move around and do things like eat and go to the restroom. BTW, I am not a Trekkie, but did Star Trek ever have any group meal scenes on the Enterprise, ala Alien?

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #53)

Mon Aug 13, 2018, 06:55 PM

54. Bezos does have an opportunity to undercut Musk on the small side

What Bezos should do is stick a second stage onto the New Shepard, one big enough to lift like half a ton to orbit. And he's admitted that this idea has been considered, but he's apparently got no time or attention to spare for actually doing it. So even though it's not a big job, it would probably still take years to get together. He might have a secret side project we don't know about, but he was pretty open about saying "Yeah, maybe that's worth thinking about someday in the indefinite future". Anyway, his whole engineering approach is "slow is fast", meaning that you take gradual careful steps to always stay on solid ground, while Musk's style is agility. Normally, being overly agile in a high-risk business is a recipe for doing a face-plant right when you're about to have your big moment, but Musk has made it work. For Bezos to suddenly go after small launches with a modified Shepard would be way too agile, and out of character.

Also, fuck Jeff Bezos with a pair of roller skates. The best outcome of a shiny success for Blue Origin would be if people start paying a lot more attention to Amazon working conditions and either boycott his ass or force him to improve his pay and working conditions. This would of course undermine BO's source of capital.

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Response to paulkienitz (Reply #54)

Mon Aug 13, 2018, 08:43 PM

55. My bet is on Bezos having something up his sleeve that he does not discuss.

Amazon's pay at it's distribution centers can and must get better. But have you even taken the time to read about something called Amazon Market? Amazon Market provides a marketing interface for lots of small companies, many that are innovative and progressive on pay and benefits for workers. So Amazon is a mixed bag.

There is always more to a story that a person sees if a person does not look deeper.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Fri Aug 10, 2018, 05:32 PM

48. Let's pretend this idiocy became a thing....It wouldn't

..be an Armed human "force" in space.
It would be weaponized satellites controlled from ground stations...

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Sat Aug 11, 2018, 07:26 AM

51. The BFR could likely solve that in the early 2020s... however

it's predecessor, Falcon Heavy, could carry humans, but Elon Musk has not chosen to apply for that certification. It's unclear that he'd choose to do so with BFR.

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Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Sat Aug 11, 2018, 08:15 AM

52. Ten year old sits at kitchen table with his angry parents.

We are really disappointed. Your older brothers had such a good reputation at school, did so many positive things, but you are deceitful and disrespectful of the teachers, bully your classmates, trash the family name, and one by one are destroying all the achievements of your older siblings. You hang around with the worst and cruelest thugs in the school and they call you their leader, and you brag about vandalizing other schools in the city. We havent heard a truthful word out of your mouth for the past three years, and we know you are stealing money out of our safe. We know that you and your gang are being investigated for some terrible things and if they are true, you will go to jail. What do you have to say for yourself?

Im going to build a spaceship in the backyard with Leggos. It will be the best spaceship you ever seen... sawed? Im going to Mars!

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