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Sun Aug 5, 2018, 06:30 PM

I'm thinking Mueller not only CAN indict a sitting president

It's HIS DUTY!!! He's gotta know what's at stake here! (MY OPINION ONLY)

46 replies, 5136 views

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Reply I'm thinking Mueller not only CAN indict a sitting president (Original post)
bluestarone Aug 2018 OP
dchill Aug 2018 #1
triron Aug 2018 #36
Cary Aug 2018 #2
magicarpet Aug 2018 #3
SCantiGOP Aug 2018 #4
bluestarone Aug 2018 #7
unblock Aug 2018 #11
Doitnow Aug 2018 #19
bluestarone Aug 2018 #21
SCantiGOP Aug 2018 #30
marylandblue Aug 2018 #27
unblock Aug 2018 #5
bluestarone Aug 2018 #8
marylandblue Aug 2018 #26
unblock Aug 2018 #28
Mr. Ected Aug 2018 #6
bluestarone Aug 2018 #9
Hoyt Aug 2018 #10
unblock Aug 2018 #13
Hoyt Aug 2018 #17
unblock Aug 2018 #22
Mr. Ected Aug 2018 #16
Hoyt Aug 2018 #18
Raine1967 Aug 2018 #25
Hoyt Aug 2018 #29
Nasruddin Aug 2018 #41
beachbum bob Aug 2018 #12
bluestarone Aug 2018 #15
C_U_L8R Aug 2018 #14
the_sly_pig Aug 2018 #20
klook Aug 2018 #23
marylandblue Aug 2018 #39
klook Aug 2018 #42
marylandblue Aug 2018 #43
Brother Buzz Aug 2018 #24
at140 Aug 2018 #31
Nasruddin Aug 2018 #38
at140 Aug 2018 #45
ElementaryPenguin Aug 2018 #34
VOX Aug 2018 #32
bluestarone Aug 2018 #35
VOX Aug 2018 #37
Nasruddin Aug 2018 #40
Loki Liesmith Aug 2018 #33
DeminPennswoods Aug 2018 #44
at140 Aug 2018 #46

Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 06:31 PM

1. It's my opinion too.

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Response to dchill (Reply #1)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 09:29 PM

36. Add me.

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 06:32 PM

2. Agreed

We shall see.

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 06:37 PM

3. Oh Lordess I hope so,... take out the White Trash !

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 06:39 PM

4. But it's not his opinion

Everything I have read indicates that his position (and the prevailing sentiment of constitutional scholars and previous SCOTUS decisions) is that a sitting President cannot be indicted.
The remedy lies in impeachment, after which the ex-President becomes a regular citizen and has no protection.

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #4)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 06:42 PM

7. hope your wrong

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #4)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 06:46 PM

11. Not quite.

There is a doj policy and limitations on Mueller's scope that likely prevent mueller from indicting, at least directly.

The Supreme Court has never ruled on the issue.

The only reason it may *seem* like constitutional scholars think a sitting president cannot be indicted is because republicans have been trotting out the few who agree with this tyrannical pipe dream. If it's ever argued before the Supreme Court, you'll see a list a mile long of amicus briefs saying a sitting president most definitely *can* be indicted.

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #4)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 07:44 PM

19. But then, can't Pence pardon him? Arrrrrrgh!

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Response to Doitnow (Reply #19)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 08:05 PM

21. Could be wrong here but IF PENCE does pardon RUMP THEN

RUMP has to testify (maybe against Pence and the whole bunch of REPUBS) with Mueller? If not he could go to prison himself. Any thoughts on this?

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #21)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 09:04 PM

30. You're right

You can only claim 5th amendment right to not testify against yourself if you are facing prosecution. If you have been pardoned that doesnít apply, so you can be jailed for contempt if you refuse to testify or perjury if you lie.

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #4)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 08:53 PM

27. When did Mueller say what his opinion is?

AFAIK, he has been silent as a sphinx for this entire investigation.

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 06:41 PM

5. I suspect *he* won't; rosenstein will.

I'm not certain, but there are some restrictions to Mueller's scope and there are doj policies that, I've heard, may keep him from indicting a sitting president directly.

He can, and will, lay out the argument for why he should be indicted, and then rosenstein will do the indictment under less restrictive doj scope and policies.

At least that's my guess....

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Response to unblock (Reply #5)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 06:44 PM

8. And if requested i really believe Rosenstein WILL!!!

You could be right here!

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Response to unblock (Reply #5)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 08:52 PM

26. Rosenstein will authorize Mueller to do it.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #26)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 08:54 PM

28. Works for me ;)

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 06:41 PM

6. The gravity of the alleged crime has to be taken into account

Otherwise a President COULD shoot someone dead in broad daylight and avoid prosecution.

With this Congress, that's not even a far-fetched thought.

When the only thing lacking from an indictment for treason is the fact that your collaborators were not engaged in a military battle with you at the time (though they were engaged in a cyber war and are nonetheless considered a hostile foreign power), and there is a good case to be made that many Congressmen were co-conspirators in a political racketeering ring and therefore your jury pool has been compromised....

...I'd say a sitting President should be subject to criminal indictment under these extraordinary circumstances.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Reply #6)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 06:44 PM

9. Soooo true here!

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 06:46 PM

10. I don't know why we think Mueller is bent on bringing trump down.

I hope he does, but I thought Fitzgerald would get bush and cheney. Nothing.

In summer of 2016, we probably would have believed Comey would not tolerate trumpís campaign irregularities, right up until he released a fictitious investigation letter 11 days before the election that helped beat Clinton.

With what we already know, Mueller could have already indicted trump and/or his kids for at least obstruction or lying to investigators. He has to know that trump is hurting, perhaps destroying, the country. Yet, he seems in no hurry to at least let voters know what they deserve before the November elections.

Shortly, it will be too late to indict or release evidence that might sway the election.

Neither Congress or a significant portion of the electorate seems to really give a damn about what trump was directly involved in, or at least too stupid and crooked to care or stop.

Iím not at all sure that Mueller is going to save us from 2+ more years of this.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #10)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 06:48 PM

13. Mueller does have a whole lot of criminality to sort through first

He's likely to save Donnie for last. Before that, there are a whole lot of indictments and deals and trials to get through.

He's not going to alter the course of other prosecutions for the sake of the political calendar.

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Response to unblock (Reply #13)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 06:57 PM

17. Maybe he needs to change his priorities. Don't discount what you are

saying, but stopping trump is more important than taking several years to build the perfect prosecution.

For all we know, heís just going through motions to bolster his retirement savings. At least Fitzgerald ended it relatively quickly rather than keeping those who wanted bush/Cheney perp-walked hanging on.

At a minimum, itís time for a preliminary report BEFORE the election. If he hasnít got something solid by this time that will wake enough people up, he never will.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #17)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 08:07 PM

22. Unfortunately for those of us with intense political interest in all this,

Prosecutors really have a duty to put the political implications out of their minds. They're trained to work their way up in big cases and get everyone they can, not just the big fish.

And they're definitely trained to avoid doing anything that could be taken as interfering with the election process. Then again, so does the fbi, and comey ignored that....

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #10)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 06:54 PM

16. Like it or not, there are huge safeguards afforded the President

To ensure that veritable political witch hunts cannot be used to remove him from his office.

For Mueller to act rapidly, or rashly, or to conduct himself in such a manner that the Republicans and all of their constituents would deem his actions partisan, or predicated on capricious allegations, would nullify his sanctioned work and cast a true cloud of doubt over his motivations.

Easy does it. That's the only way, unfortunately.

It certainly doesn't help that many of Trump's crimes have been done in public (his obstruction, his admission of guilt this morning), so we expect for law enforcement to move equally as fast and openly. If it was you or me, it probably would boomerang back at us at breakneck speed. And it should.

But Mueller has to protect the office of the presidency, which will outlive Trump and outlive us all.
I just hope the USA is still the USA when the hammer drops.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Reply #16)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 07:02 PM

18. Mueller is a GOPer. If he doesn't have enough to wake up

the majority of voters by now, he never will.

Iím ready to hear where this is going. If itís headed toward another Fitzmas, so be it. But we deserve to know before November.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #10)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 08:50 PM

25. Mueller (IMO) is working his way from the bottom up. Also:

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3726381/Robert-Mueller-Special-Counsel-Russia.pdf

I'm not in the camp of thinking that Mueller "bent on bringing trump down".

I am in the camp of his investigation taking things where they go.

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Response to Raine1967 (Reply #25)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 08:57 PM

29. By the time he finishes his methodical investigation, it won't matter for the people.

Iím sorry, this is more than we are going to get our man no matter how long it takes to investigate every aspect of possible criminality and impropriety.

They didnít do that with Hillary Clinton. They convicted or tainted her in public opinion.

I donít care if heís convicted in court or Senate. I want him out of office or neutered as soon as possible.

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Response to Raine1967 (Reply #25)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 09:48 PM

41. What is his theory?

He must have a theory, or set of theories, about these cases. It will be fascinating to hear/read his explanation. Someday.

Right now it seems like a glacial poker game. But who's holding the aces and eights?

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 06:47 PM

12. A DOJ opinion on not indicting a sitting president is NOT law, I am hoping

 

Mueller does what needs to be done to save our nation....

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Response to beachbum bob (Reply #12)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 06:52 PM

15. Man i fully agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 06:50 PM

14. Treason is treason

Obstruction, conspiracy, money laundering, hacked election, stolen Presidency.
Yes, please indict.

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 08:01 PM

20. Only kings and dictators are above the law.

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 08:41 PM

23. Preet Bharara says Mueller would never go against the rule

prohibiting indictment of a sitting president, and I think Preet is in a better position than any of us here to opine on the matter.

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Response to klook (Reply #23)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 09:43 PM

39. He knows no more than you or I about Mueller's thinking

Unless he has spoken to Mueller about the issue, and I am sure he hasn't.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #39)

Mon Aug 6, 2018, 06:32 AM

42. I am a casual observer with no legal training.

How about you?

Gary Kasparov knows more about chess than I do. Margaret Atwood knows more about writing than I do. And Preet Bharara knows more about the law than I do. Maybe you're on his level, I don't know.

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Response to klook (Reply #23)

Mon Aug 6, 2018, 07:00 AM

43. This isn't a true legal question

There is an opinion of the OLC. There are also opposite opinions of prior special counsels. Which will he follow? That's really a judgement call.

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 08:48 PM

24. Mueller is not going to indict a sitting president

At least not until he has the sit-down with the orange anus. After that, who knows.

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Response to Brother Buzz (Reply #24)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 09:09 PM

31. My guess is,

If Mueller has enough evidence to indict orange man after year and a half, he would have done so by now. Rudy G is not going to allow interview under oath because of perjury trap.

If he does have evidence to indict, it could end up in SCOTUS. That would be long delays in resolution. In the meanwhile the orange man will go berserk and out of control with executive orders, pardons, starting wars, etc.

Best opportunity is coming in November. If both House & Senate turn democratic, impeachment can begin. That is the method spelled out in constitution, and SCOTUS can do nothing to stop it, Kavanaugh or no Kavanaugh.

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Response to at140 (Reply #31)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 09:39 PM

38. No impeachment

Where do you get the ~66 senators you need to convict and remove from office?

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Response to Nasruddin (Reply #38)

Mon Aug 6, 2018, 10:12 AM

45. Many GOP politicians dislike Trump

They are afraid to openly oppose him, but given the
opportunity to remove him, they will jump on it.

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Response to Brother Buzz (Reply #24)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 09:23 PM

34. My guess is that Mueller (or Rosenstein) will NOT feel obliged to abide by the DOJ rule

Since this is not a duly elected sitting president - but a traitorous imposter who conspired to steal the election (which Mueller is in a unique to position to know for a certainty)!

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 09:10 PM

32. We are stuck in a driverless vehicle going 120 mph.

It won't be long before some OUTRAGEOUSLY serious shit happens, unless someone can slow down the mega-disaster that's sure to come without any action to prevent it.

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Response to VOX (Reply #32)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 09:25 PM

35. I would like to disagree BUT

I'm afraid YOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT ON THE MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BLUEWAVE is our only hope to slow this nightmare down! ( except for Mueller that is)

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #35)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 09:35 PM

37. I'd like to disagree with myself!

I'm not proud!

I've never seen/heard/lived in such total, wall-to-wall insanity. Americans divided against Americans, because one group has been coaxed into an alternate reality, where up is down, Russia is our best pal forever, white nationalism is the thing, the rich deserve to be richer, and if you're poor, it's your fault.

Couldn't be crazier, but I might regret even saying that!

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Response to VOX (Reply #32)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 09:46 PM

40. This system of government is broken

When we finally come up for air, we need to rethink this system. We have to be able to get rid of incompetency without a horrible political process called impeachment, which has never worked, either. We've had a fair number of incompetent presidents and cabinet officers over the past 200 years, this set being the worst but not the only bad ones.

The guys from the enlightenment were smart, but they didn't know everything. They didn't understand about psychopaths (our problem), they didn't understand cognitive dissonance, they didn't understand the concept of statistical ties (election of 2000), they thought (well, John Marshall thought) a collection of unelected legislators reviewing laws was a good idea. Mmm, maybe not.

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Sun Aug 5, 2018, 09:10 PM

33. He won't

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Mon Aug 6, 2018, 08:04 AM

44. Agree

I think this investigation is so serious and so far-ranging in its criminality, Mueller and Rosenstein will agree Trump and everyone else involved should and will be indicted.

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Response to DeminPennswoods (Reply #44)

Mon Aug 6, 2018, 10:14 AM

46. How many judges he gets to appoint while waiting

for Mueller & Rosenstein?

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