Trump Evangelical Adviser: Unlike Illegal Immigrants, Jesus Didn't Break Laws!

[kpete]

Pastor Paula White, chair of President Donald Trump’s evangelical advisory board, defended Trump’s child separation policy earlier this week by claiming that Jesus did not live in Egypt illegally, and that “he would not have been our Messiah” if he’d broken the law.

After gushing over how “amazing” the child detention center she visited was, White addressed immigration advocates’ point that Jesus himself was a refugee.

“Yes, he did live in Egypt for three-and-a-half years,” the televangelist told CBN News. “But it was not illegal.”

“If he had broken the law, then he would have been sinful and he would not have been our Messiah,” White added.

In fact, Jesus was famously crucified specifically for breaking the law by claiming to be the son of God. Before that, he was persecuted by religious leaders and the Romans for violating laws like resting on the Sabbath.


MORE:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/paula-white-trump-evangelical-chair-jesus-illegal-immigration

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Then how did he get himself executed for sedition?

[Ms. Toad]

13. You have heard of Project Innocence, right?

Conviction does not necessarily mean you broke the law.

(I'm not disagreeing that he broke both secular and religious law - I just don't take conviction as invariably implying guilt.)

[OilemFirchen]

16. He confessed.

BTW, that was a pretty important fucking law. In fact, not just a law, a commandment. The first, BTW.

[Ms. Toad]

20. My point is that innocent people are convicted and executed for crimes

they didn't commit.

So merely observing that he was executed for a crime does not, in my mind, constitute conclusive proof that he committed the crime. (A confession comes closer, but even confessions can be coerced.)

[OilemFirchen]

21. He confessed repeatedly and loudly.

He wasn't coerced.

Anyway, wasn't he actually the first Innocence Project?

John 8:1–11

...but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. Early in the morning he came again to the temple. All the people came to him, and he sat down and taught them. The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. Now in the Law, Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?” This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you ibe the first to throw a stone at her.” And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground. But when they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. Jesus stood up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.”

Just having fun, BTW.

[Ms. Toad]

22. More like the first jury nullificaiton. :) n/t

[Mariana]

56. He confessed to sedition? When did that happen?

After Jesus was arrested, Pilate investigated the charges against him and found him not guilty. Pilate wanted to let him go. According to the gospel of Luke, Herod also interrogated him and just like Pilate, he found no reason to punish him.

[Nevernose]

58. Right before the zombies appeared.

Because if we’re accepting the Gospel of Luke as true, then we might as well accept the Gospel or Mark as true, too, right?

Matthew 27:51-53 New King James Version (NKJV)

51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

[Mariana]

60. Well, I don't accept any of it as true

but I don't like to see it being misrepresented. If people are going to make arguments based on these stories, they ought to relay the stories accurately. The story says Jesus didn't confess to anything. Rather, he was very careful not to incriminate himself, and he succeeded in that.

[Tanuki]

2. Jesus healed the sick on the Sabbath and was condemned for it because it "broke the law."

[Cha]

38. Fraud's freaking "spiritual adviser"

doesn't know the Bible or the history of Jesus.

BIG SHOCKER!

[dawg day]

3. Threw the merchants out of the temple: Assault! :)

These people are nasty idiots. They probably didn't used to be this stupid (probably she used to remember that Christ was crucified for what the authorities apparently thought was breaking the law). But being for Trump lowers your intelligence by 50%.

[Thomas Hurt]

4. Sorry, but that is just outright dishonest and stupid....LOL

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

5. Paula White.....Send ME Cash Now.....Nuff said.

[lapfog_1]

6. They way they twist themselves into pretzels is simply amazing.

It would be fun to watch except that we are turning into a monster of a country (on par with other monstrous nations of history) because of this man they believe in AND the 30 percent who support him.

Witness Puerto Rico and the government response to that tragedy...

and now the refugees at our border.

[unblock]

7. not a bible expert, but does it even say breaking a *government's* law is a *religious* sin?

i would have thought it was only a sin to break a religious law.

[Ms. Toad]

15. I don't know . . . ask Kim Davis. n/t

[Mariana]

25. I don't think Jesus even broke any civil laws.

After he was arrested, he was interrogated by Pilate, who found no reason to punish him and intended to let him go. The Gospel of Luke also has Jesus being questioned by Herod, who also found him guilty of no crime.

[braddy]

27. I think you are correct, he broke no civil laws.

[exboyfil]

29. Cleansing the temple

Unlawful assemblies, vandalism (cursing the fig tree), desecration of a grave (Lazarus), destruction of private property (swine going over the cliff).

[braddy]

32. No, I don't recall the Romans charging him with any civil crimes or any reason that they should.

[exboyfil]

34. The question is if he broke civil charge

Not if he was charged. I think both the Jews had civil law (which would include religious crimes) and Roman law. Creating any sort of disturbance would definitely fall under Roman law. I personally don't think that the cleansing was nearly as dramatic as reported.

[braddy]

35. Evidently he didn't break Roman law.

[Mariana]

36. Are the assemblies described anywhere as unlawful?

If Jesus had confessed to stuff like cursing the fig tree, raising Lazarus, and casting demons into pigs, I think it's more likely that Pilate would declare him not guilty by reason of insanity. Can you imagine how that would go?

Pilate: Did you run that man's pigs over a cliff?
Jesus: Yes Sir.
Pilate: How did you do that? Did you whip them? Did you chase them?
Jesus. No Sir. I cast demons into them, and the demons made them run off the cliff.
Pilate: What?
Jesus: Well, the demons begged me to do it.
Pilate. I see.

Cleansing the temple probably rises to the level of a crime, since Jesus constructed a weapon and attacked people and animals with it. Still, Pilate meant to release Jesus, so he obviously didn't think it was all that important.

[D_Master81]

50. not exactly

the references to governing bodies are minimal. Jesus is asked about taxing and says "Give to Ceasar what is Caesar and give to God what is God's" and also somewhere it talks about respecting those in power b/c God has put them there. In general i would personally say "sinning" would be breaking the laws of the land unless they contradict spiritual law.

[Mariana]

57. Jesus was pretty discreet when it came to

talking about the Roman authorities. He had plenty to say against the local religious leaders, but he really did take care not to antagonize the Romans. It worked, too. Pilate found no reason to punish him.

[treestar]

8. Yeah I don't think there were any immigration restrictions in any part of the world then

Yeah, Jesus wouldn't have broken the Jim Crow laws, either. Talk about someone who does not get it. This person is a pastor?

[VOX]

9. A Mobius Strip of "logic": "Then he would have been sinful and he would not have been our Messiah"

Last edited Thu Jul 12, 2018, 06:48 PM - Edit history (1)

It comes right back on itself and locks you out. No room for reason.

[FiveGoodMen]

59. "No room for reason"

Religion in a nutshell.

[VOX]

65. Not even a millimeter in any direction. Encased. n/t

[Vinca]

10. Hey, he started out life trespassing in a manger.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

11. Having actually studied that book. I'm sure her imaginary friend broke all kinds of laws. nt

[ChubbyStar]

51. I have studied it too

She is a fig leaf short.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

52. Yeah, having gone through a jesuit school. We did one thing most of these frauds and

their hypocritical lemming followers don't do. We actually read the fucking thing. I know, crazy right?

[ChubbyStar]

54. Crazy good my friend

That a liberal actually read the Bible...they have no clue.

[Initech]

12. Get the fuck out of the White House, Paula. You don't belong there.

And never will.

[LAS14]

14. She must not have red the story about Jesus' casting the money lenders out of the temple. nt

[sarcasmo]

17. Republican Jesus full of hate.

[blogslut]

18. I'll let this guy reply

Link to tweet

James Martin, SJ
?Verified account @JamesMartinSJ

James Martin, SJ Retweeted The Christian Post

No. Jesus "broke the laws," both religious and civic, several times, which is one of the reasons he was crucified. He healed on the Sabbath, permitted his disciples to pluck grain, had contact with the unclean, and so on. Plus, he was indeed a refugee: https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2017/12/27/were-jesus-mary-and-joseph-refugees-yes

[Major Nikon]

24. The morning Jesus was arrested, they found him with a nude young boy

Mark 14:51-52 New International Version (NIV)

51 A young man, wearing nothing but a linen garment, was following Jesus. When they seized him, 52 he fled naked, leaving his garment behind.

[exboyfil]

30. That's Mark

Or least that is the speculation.

[Major Nikon]

42. As believable as any of it I suppose

[Beartracks]

28. Teach it, Jesuits! n/t

[Quixote1818]

19. Did Jesus steal from children's cancer charities like Trump you fucking dick? nt

[Ilsa]

23. So, when the Messiah does it, it isn't a sin?

I seem to recall Richard Nixon, post-resignation, making a statement along those lines.

[vlyons]

26. Mark 2:27

During the high priesthood of Abiathar, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which was lawful only for the priests. And he gave some to his companions as well.” 27Then Jesus told them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

33. Here is a little story I heard in church about sheep and goats.

When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

Then the King will say to those on his right, "Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me."

Then the righteous will answer him, "Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?"

The King will reply, "Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me."

Then he will say to those on his left, "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me."

They also will answer, "Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?"

He will reply, "Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

[braddy]

41. Each Christian will face that, but it will be based on their individual life as a Christian, not on

the government. Jesus did not go to Ceaser and instruct the Roman government on this.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

44. But even given that Caesar should get what's his, there is a higher law

[braddy]

46. I didn't understand that, but each human is judged for his own personal life and faith in Christ,

not government.

[exboyfil]

31. Fleeing Herod was also a crime

Avoiding his royal decree. I suspect there was some agreements between Egypt and Judea as well regarding fugitives.

[braddy]

40. Judea and Egypt were both Rome, Christ's family never moved out of Rome.

[ck4829]

37. So helping slaves escape through the Underground Railroad was sinning?

[Algernon Moncrieff]

43. Now you're getting it

The 3/5 compromise was the law. Tubman was a terrorist. The Civil War was just an extension of Lee's actions against John Brown. Slave abuse was fake news. Grant was a drunk. Lincoln made a very bad deal on emancipation.

[Mariana]

61. Yes. However, Christians get forgiven for their sins. nt.

[Garrett78]

39. That Trump is breaking numerous laws apparently doesn't bother Paula White (Supremacist).

Not to mention bragging about sexual assault, numerous affairs and marriages, etc.

Gee, it's as if racism might be the driving force behind Trump's support.

[brooklynite]

45. ...and unlike those Mexicans, he spoke English!

"If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it ought to be good enough for the children of Texas." -- Gov. Miriam Ferguson

[NightWatcher]

47. Who gives a shit. Jesus isn't the basis for our government

It's a book and the religion of a death cult. We are not a Christian theocracy (yet). Stop allowing them to cram it that way. When they want to debate using Christ or the bible, counter with Forrest Gump or The Hobbit. All three are books and neither are the basis for our government (yet). When we debate the Bible, we give it gravity. Treat it as the ridiculous ancient heavily edited text that it is.

[el_bryanto]

48. Hmmmm - well what if you are a Christian?

I mean it would be hard for me to treat the Bible as a joke when I also believe it contain wisdom and enlightenment.

Bryant

[NightWatcher]

49. Congrats. It still should have nothing to do with government

[Mariana]

55. It's a dilemma, to be sure.

However, I'm sure you can come up with some way to argue in favor of a secular government.

[Nevernose]

62. "Wisdom and enlightenment"

Specifically, “what I believe contains wisdom and enlightenment.” Exactly like how many atheists think about Shakespeare? Or Twain or Steinbeck or Lao Tsu? Because all of those things — including the Bible — are filled with jokes, wisdom, and many other worthwhile things. Doesn’t mean those things are either true or not worthy of mockery, jokes, or whatever.

So what if “you are a Christian?” Your words, not mine. Then is it okay for me to say “The Homos are bound for Hell? “ Beause the OT very clearly claims that. Repeatedly.

[el_bryanto]

64. I think I would advise against saying that but I don't believe in hell in the way

that it is usually portrayed.

I do agree completely that you should not base policy or laws on the Bible, or any book of Scripture.

Bryant

[ecstatic]

53. The lack of empathy, the way they dehumanize people

and deflect everything to fit their twisted world view is stunning. And she has the audacity to call herself a representative of Christ? Are we sure there's nothing in the water making 40% of Americans dangerously stupid?

[stopbush]

63. Jesus is fiction. Immigrants are reality.

You may as well ask what Rhett Butler would do.