Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
13 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

WI_DEM

(33,497 posts)
1. Most people who have seen war hate war
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 11:23 AM
Aug 2012

The GOP of today is full of chicken hawks who never experienced combat and so have no problem sending other people to fight.

The GOP has moved so far out of the mainstream since Eisenhower it's hard to believe that they are a viable political party. But there are a lot of nuts in this country.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,338 posts)
2. Also, every Corvette, every golf course, every McMansion
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 11:32 AM
Aug 2012

Everything bought or sold signifies a prioritization. If it is optional (not a necessity of life), it represents theft from the tired, the poor, the huddled masses.

What's special about guns, warships, and rockets?

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
4. I imagine that Pres. Eisenhower was referencing the Guns versus Butter model...
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 11:39 AM
Aug 2012

"What's special about guns, warships, and rockets?"

I imagine that Pres. Eisenhower was referencing the Guns versus Butter macro-economic model-- a nation's investment in military (e.g., guns) versus its investment in civilian goods (e.g., Corvettes, as you mentioned, or "butter" as stated in model name).

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,338 posts)
5. That might have been Ike's point
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 11:56 AM
Aug 2012

I don't know what the OP's point is.

Defense spending vs other? Or guns (military and civilian) vs other?


 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
7. If I do not or cannot understand a point being made
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 12:14 PM
Aug 2012

If I do not or cannot understand a point being made (which happens more often than not), I often find that it's much more effective to simply ask for clarification directly rather than implying I understand, yet find points about it to disagree with, e.g, "What's special about guns, warships, and rockets?"

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,338 posts)
9. I understood the point being made in the OP ...
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 12:30 PM
Aug 2012

... and then your post #4 showed a different interpretation.

After that, I was less clear on the OP's intended point.

Wounded Bear

(58,647 posts)
3. Real warriors go into battle with sadness...
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 11:36 AM
Aug 2012

because they know that every word in that Eisenhower quote is true.

I consider Ike to be the last good Republican President. Of course, he could have been, and almost was a Democrat.

Initech

(100,063 posts)
6. Eisenhower was definitely not a friend of the military industrial complex.
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 12:06 PM
Aug 2012

The Republican party has seriously lost it's way thanks to our parrot talking points media.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
8. I'd hazard that in the here and now, the teabaggers would call him a dirty commie.
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 12:27 PM
Aug 2012

I was surprised after reading 'Eisenhower and the Suez Crisis of 1956' to find out the huge amount of animosity between Ike and the Joint Chiefs (eps. LeMay), despite Ike himself once being chairman of the Joint Chiefs-- about the same amount of hard feelings shared between the Kennedy admin and the JCS. But in the end, he wanted to promote American democracy overseas via education investments rather than military investments.

I'd hazard that in the here and now, the teabaggers would call him a dirty commie.

Jeff In Milwaukee

(13,992 posts)
12. He'd never make it out of the primaries...
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 12:38 PM
Aug 2012

It's just a very sad reminder about just how far the Republican Party has drifted over the past 50 years. Being "tough on communism" was understandable back in the 1950's because, in a sense, our survival depended on it. But today? It just shows that the Republicans haven't had an original idea in nearly two generations.

 

slackmaster

(60,567 posts)
11. Ike was referring to the expenditure of public money on the military
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 12:35 PM
Aug 2012

Just to put it into the proper context.

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)
13. Eisenhower was a warmonger of the first order...
Mon Aug 6, 2012, 12:45 PM
Aug 2012

The fascination of some people on the Left with Eisenhower, because of his anti MIC speech as he left office never ceases to amaze me. He presided over the enormous buildup of the US Nuclear Arsenal, and regularly contemplated Thermonuclear War with the USSR. Eisenhower was no Dove.

I can't copy and paste the entire article, it's far too long, but the 4 paragraphs below hits the highlights. I suggest you read the entire article.

http://hnn.us/articles/47326.html

Peace activists love to quote Dwight Eisenhower. The iconic Republican war hero who spoke so eloquently about the dangers of war and the need for disarmament makes a terrific poster-boy for peace. The image of Eisenhower as the “man of peace” is so useful that I almost hate to burst the bubble. But if you look at the historical record there is no escaping the other Eisenhower: the Eisenhower who said “he would rather be atomized than communized,” who reminds us how dangerous the cold war era really was and how easily political leaders can mask their intentions with benign images.

Early on, he noted in his diary what he later said in public: nuclear weapons would now be “treated just as another weapon in the arsenal.” “We have got to be in a position to use that weapon,” he insisted to Dulles. That became official policy in NSC 5810/1, which declared the U.S. intention to treat nuclear weapons “as conventional weapons; and to use them whenever required to achieve national objectives.” By early 1957, Eisenhower told the NSC that there could be no conventional battles any more: “The only sensible thing for us to do was to put all our resources into our SAC capability and into hydrogen bombs.” He found it “frustrating not to have plans to use nuclear weapons generally accepted.”

His whole reason for fighting was to prevent the communists from imposing a totalitarian state in America. He had long recognized the irony that nuclear war would lead to the very totalitarianism he abhorred. But he confessed to the Cabinet that he saw no way to avoid it: “He was coming more and more to the conclusion that … we would have to run this country as one big camp—severely regimented.” After reading plans for placing the nation under martial law, giving the president power to “requisition all of the nation’s resources–human and material,” he pronounced them “sound.”

It is hard to give up the “man of peace” that peace activists have come to admire. And perhaps it’s not fair to give him up. After all, we can never know what another person truly believes. But the record of the other Eisenhower is so consistent and so extensive (I’ve offered only a sampling here) that it is hard to ignore. More importantly, it is dangerous to ignore, because the other Eisenhower was the one who made actual policy. It was a policy that put anticommunist ideology above human life, made by a man who would “push whole stack of chips into the pot” and “hit ‘em … with everything in the bucket”; a man who would “shoot your enemy before he shoots you” and “hit the guy fast with all you’ve got”; a man who believed that the U.S. could “pick itself up from the floor” and win the war, even though “everybody is going crazy,” as long as only 25 or 30 American cities got “shellacked” and nobody got too “hysterical.”
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Eisenhower: Every Gun ....