Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:01 PM
grumpyduck (5,288 posts)
Email from an old friend who's a Republican
Recently I've cut down my presence here in DU -- it's just too depressing. Not the posts: the subject matter.
But just now I got an email from a loooong-time friend who happens to be a Rep. He's actually a very nice guy and I like him a lot, but I refuse to talk politics with him. There wouldn't be any point in it. So here's the email. I don't have a clue what the source was, but I can see several holes in the argument and a couple places where I want to YELL and SCREAM at my friend. What do you think? “In March of 1993, The United States Supreme Court issued a ruling in Reno v Flores. (Yes, “That” Reno. Janet Reno, Bill Clinton’s first Attorney General who ordered that young Elian Gonzalez be torn from his family’s arms while hiding in a Miami closet. You might remember the iconic photograph.)
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27 replies, 3162 views
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Author | Time | Post |
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grumpyduck | Jun 2018 | OP |
The Blue Flower | Jun 2018 | #1 | |
maryellen99 | Jun 2018 | #10 | |
samnsara | Jun 2018 | #2 | |
Corgigal | Jun 2018 | #3 | |
atreides1 | Jun 2018 | #4 | |
lagomorph777 | Jun 2018 | #9 | |
Stallion | Jun 2018 | #5 | |
marylandblue | Jun 2018 | #6 | |
eleny | Jun 2018 | #7 | |
Vogon_Glory | Jun 2018 | #14 | |
Freethinker65 | Jun 2018 | #8 | |
jberryhill | Jun 2018 | #11 | |
unblock | Jun 2018 | #16 | |
Vogon_Glory | Jun 2018 | #12 | |
unblock | Jun 2018 | #13 | |
eleny | Jun 2018 | #15 | |
Vogon_Glory | Jun 2018 | #18 | |
eleny | Jun 2018 | #20 | |
Vogon_Glory | Jun 2018 | #23 | |
eleny | Jun 2018 | #26 | |
NY_20th | Jun 2018 | #19 | |
Mariana | Jun 2018 | #17 | |
GoCubsGo | Jun 2018 | #21 | |
bettyellen | Jun 2018 | #22 | |
lunamagica | Jun 2018 | #24 | |
procon | Jun 2018 | #25 | |
lunamagica | Jun 2018 | #27 |
Response to grumpyduck (Original post)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:04 PM
The Blue Flower (5,130 posts)
1. Must be the current talking point
I got something similar from my now former friend who was making excuses for this atrocity. I don't care about all the verbiage. What this is is simply more excuses. There is no excuse for the destruction of young lives.
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Response to The Blue Flower (Reply #1)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:17 PM
maryellen99 (3,734 posts)
10. It is my husband's trump worshipping cousin posted how Democrats cheered him being sent back to Cuba
I posted something in response and unfriended.
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Response to grumpyduck (Original post)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:07 PM
samnsara (16,883 posts)
2. i had a friend send this kind of stuff to me...finally i returned it and said they i would have to
...put them in my junk email if they cont to send me this propaganda. which I did anyway.
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Response to grumpyduck (Original post)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:07 PM
Corgigal (9,291 posts)
3. Mother drowned
Some family he didn't really know kept him. His dad wanted him back, and back he went.
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Response to grumpyduck (Original post)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:08 PM
atreides1 (15,792 posts)
4. He isn't a nice guy
He's just another asshole trying to justify a cruel and inhumane practice, if I were you I'd find better friends!!!
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Response to atreides1 (Reply #4)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:17 PM
lagomorph777 (30,613 posts)
9. Yeah, block his address.
Response to grumpyduck (Original post)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:09 PM
Stallion (6,428 posts)
5. His Dad-his only Surviving Parent Wanted Him Back in Cuba
that was a Conflict of Law issue involving conflicting laws between 2 countries concerning a Cuban national
so NO-not similar facts |
Response to grumpyduck (Original post)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:11 PM
marylandblue (12,344 posts)
6. The policy for all children separated from parents
whether incarcerated or for some other reason is to first try place them with relatives and second into foster care. Makeshift detention centers are a form of incarceration.
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Response to grumpyduck (Original post)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:13 PM
eleny (46,147 posts)
7. Using this is another example of Republican hypocrisy since they hated what happened at the time
Response to eleny (Reply #7)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:19 PM
Vogon_Glory (8,692 posts)
14. Yeah, Attorney General Reno Reno was trashed for returning
little Elian TO HIS FATHER!
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Response to grumpyduck (Original post)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:15 PM
Freethinker65 (8,161 posts)
8. Ask how Trump is now suddenly able to fix this crisis with a stroke of a pen! What changed????
Is it perhaps that he was lying all along? Did he perhaps change the policy in the first place after agreeing with advisers like Steven Miller that separating families at the border would deter future "immigrants" and show political strength? Did he send Nielsen out to deny it was even happening and praise her communication skills (lies) and then have to later admit the separations?
Did Trump only change his tough alpha male brilliant mind when faced with the blow to his image, power, and pocketbook? Did Trump, once again, play his 30% base for fools, knowing that he truly could shoot someone on 5th Avenue (or take babies away from mothers whose only crime was a potential misdemeanor for seeking asylum in th US), and they would believe any and changing stories for why this happened? |
Response to grumpyduck (Original post)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:17 PM
jberryhill (62,444 posts)
11. That is so fucking insanely stupid
The entire POINT of the Elian Gonzalez situation was to return him TO HIS SURVIVING PARENT. |
Response to jberryhill (Reply #11)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:20 PM
unblock (51,286 posts)
16. his surviving parent, who was notably *not* an immigrant, legal or otherwise.
that case has virtually nothing to do with the present circumstances.
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Response to grumpyduck (Original post)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:18 PM
Vogon_Glory (8,692 posts)
12. Elian Gonzalez? The right-wing liars forgot something
Yes, Elian Gonzalez’s mother DID drown at sea, but Elian’s father was very much ALIVE, living in Cuba, and wanted to have his son sent HOME. To deny the Elder Gonzalez’s parental rights would have broken a number of international agreements and threatened the chances of tens of thousands of American parents involved in international custody disputes.
Yes, Elian was torn from the arms of those uncles but was RETURNED TO HIS FATHER, a point today’s righ-wing liars choose to overlook. All I can say about claims that Donnie’s action is like Attorney General Reno’s action with Elian is “LIAR!” “LIAR!” “LIAR!” |
Response to grumpyduck (Original post)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:19 PM
unblock (51,286 posts)
13. many if not most of these people are not crossing illegally, but are claiming asylum.
even if their claim is eventually rejected, it's not illegal to try to immigrate here claiming asylum.
donnie started the policy of treating *all* immigrants (on our border with mexico, anyway) as if they were coming here illegally *even when they are not*. no other president has ever pried apart families wholesale based on arbitrarily lumping in *legal* behavior together with illegal behavior. i shouldn't say "arbitrary". they have the same skin color (non-white) and language (spanish). |
Response to grumpyduck (Original post)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:19 PM
eleny (46,147 posts)
15. P.S. I don't know why you came here to post this bullshit
I urge you to self delete this propaganda.
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Response to eleny (Reply #15)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:22 PM
Vogon_Glory (8,692 posts)
18. I hope s/he doesn't, because I firmly believe in knowing our enemies
And knowing their lies.
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Response to Vogon_Glory (Reply #18)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:23 PM
eleny (46,147 posts)
20. The OP is doing the work of the Republicans whether they know it or not
Response to eleny (Reply #20)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:33 PM
Vogon_Glory (8,692 posts)
23. I disagree. The other posters did a great job at refuting
that quoted right-wing deplorable’s lies.
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Response to Vogon_Glory (Reply #23)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:37 PM
eleny (46,147 posts)
26. The replies aren't the point
The OP is dragging up this story to demean Democrats. It's the "both sides do it" equivalency bullshit. Nevermind that at the time Republicans decried the decision to return the child to his father in Cuba.
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Response to eleny (Reply #15)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:23 PM
NY_20th (1,028 posts)
19. Yeah, I'm not buying what his friend is selling
and I'm really not in the mood to read bullshit Republican lies.
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Response to grumpyduck (Original post)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:20 PM
Mariana (14,470 posts)
17. Are these parents being charged with crimes?
Are they being arraigned and having bail set? Are they being assigned public defenders to represent them? Are the children being placed with relatives when possible, or in foster care, which is what is done when a parent can't care for them due to arrest?
Your "friend" is full of shit. |
Response to grumpyduck (Original post)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:25 PM
GoCubsGo (31,083 posts)
21. Seems to me that Bill Clinton was reuiniting a family, not seperating them,
as this pile of nonsense would like one to believe. He sent the kid back to his father. I don't see how that is a bad thing, and it is certainly no comparison to what Comrade Trump and his storm troopers have been doing.
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Response to grumpyduck (Original post)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:26 PM
bettyellen (47,209 posts)
22. I'd ask him if he wants a genuine conversation but the fact he
That he sending you a cut and paste is kind of bullshit. This was a cruel policy change, and I’d ask him if he knows and can acknowledge that. He’s kind of screwed nor because Trump has admitted it.
But if you want to go zero tolerance since he doesn’t respect your boundaries, that’s okay too. |
Response to grumpyduck (Original post)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:36 PM
lunamagica (9,967 posts)
24. I'm sorry to tell you, he isnoit a nice guy. The fact that he voted fro trump and SILL supports him
proves otherwise.
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Response to grumpyduck (Original post)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:36 PM
procon (15,805 posts)
25. Crossing the border is a misdemeanor.
The government labels assault, theft crimes, DUI and prostitution as misdemeanors, too, "minor offenses" that are generally punished with fines, probation, community service. Only rarely, like when the defendant has a prior criminal history, is the maximum sentence of one year in jail ever used.
Putting immigrants in prison and forcibly taking their children away for a misdemeanor violation like crossing the border is a punitive political decision that doesn't match the sentences given to other people who are charged with other misdemeanor crimes, even when violent is used, and they are released with only a fine and no one takes their kids away. |
Response to grumpyduck (Original post)
Wed Jun 20, 2018, 12:37 PM
lunamagica (9,967 posts)