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Fri Jun 1, 2018, 09:54 AM

The bad guys are going to win

We are easily divided because someone objects to a word, or a plank.

They are unified and singular in purpose.

And that's it.

24 replies, 1848 views

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Arrow 24 replies Author Time Post
Reply The bad guys are going to win (Original post)
dogknob Jun 2018 OP
Tavarious Jackson Jun 2018 #1
BSdetect Jun 2018 #2
vi5 Jun 2018 #3
ProfessorGAC Jun 2018 #9
ChicagoRonin Jun 2018 #4
dogknob Jun 2018 #10
ChicagoRonin Jun 2018 #11
NCTraveler Jun 2018 #5
Thomas Hurt Jun 2018 #6
Iggo Jun 2018 #7
kcr Jun 2018 #14
Iggo Jun 2018 #18
renegade000 Jun 2018 #8
SonofDonald Jun 2018 #12
Backwoodsrider Jun 2018 #13
DesertRat Jun 2018 #15
LanternWaste Jun 2018 #16
gollygee Jun 2018 #17
Zing Zing Zingbah Jun 2018 #19
gollygee Jun 2018 #20
standingtall Jun 2018 #22
gollygee Jun 2018 #23
standingtall Jun 2018 #24
Initech Jun 2018 #21

Response to dogknob (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 09:59 AM

1. Maybe so.

 

I know for a fact I won't vote for a flip flop independent/democrat only when running, NEVER not even in the era of Trump.

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Response to dogknob (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 09:59 AM

2. Debate is not necessarily divisive.

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Response to dogknob (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 10:02 AM

3. That's exactly our problem....

 

They are against abortion. Across the board.

They are for low or no taxes. Across the board.

They are against all government regulation. Across the board.

They are pro-military. Across the board.

Everything we are supposedly for either has a lot of caveats, has to be neutered or toned down to please a small minority faction of our elected reps, or is thrown overboard at the slightest sign of inconvenience.

We are for easy access to reproductive freedom. Oh, well you know except some cases. And only if we make sure government doesn't pay for it. And well, except maybe in Louisiana where Democrats just sponsored and signed a majorly restrictive anti-choice law.

We are for a fair tax system. But just make sure we aren't too mean to Wall Street or the NY/NJ Democrats don't get too scared. And well, maybe we should keep SOME tax cuts, and well maybe there is something to trickle down economics.

We are sort of for Unions. When it's convenient, and when it gets us votes and donations. But man, some of that Bezos money would be sweet, huh.

We are for public schools, but man maybe charters and vouchers are pretty neat too.

And on, and on, and on with any issue.

I don't think it's any coincidence that over the past 20-30 years, as our positions have become more negotiable and with more caveats, that our electoral victories have been fewer and by slimmer margins.

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Response to vi5 (Reply #3)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 10:24 AM

9. Nicely Done, vi5!

As i was reading it i kept saying to myself, "Yep, yep, yep, yep. . ."

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Response to dogknob (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 10:04 AM

4. It's harder to win the right way

Diversity of opinion
Diversity of race
Diversity of ideas
Diversity of faith

It's messy, full of competing agendas, and you usually are just hanging on. And you'll probably lose often. But I prefer that than copying a bunch of ignorant, lockstep racists.

The bad guys are not going to win.
They might.
So might we.

Predictions are worth nothing.
Effort is everything.

So make an f**ng effort before doomsaying.

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Response to ChicagoRonin (Reply #4)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 10:24 AM

10. How do you know what f**ing effort I have made?

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Response to dogknob (Reply #10)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 10:26 AM

11. I don't

You didn't choose to talk about your efforts.
But feel free, I'm sure others would like to know how you reached your conclusions.

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Response to dogknob (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 10:08 AM

5. "They are unified and singular in purpose. "

 

There is no basis for that in reality.

"We are easily divided because someone objects to a word, or a plank. "

There is no basis for that in reality.

Life exists off of DU.

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Response to dogknob (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 10:08 AM

6. The bad guys are a minority politically...

there is a huge pool of the apathetic out there that could vote but don't.

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Response to dogknob (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 10:17 AM

7. Well, DU is easily divided. Hilariously easily divided.

Surprisingly (to me, at least), DU is easily divided on the subject of race.

I'm not sure that it translates, or how it translates, to the real world.

But it's here. And it's amazing. And not in a good way.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #7)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 10:33 AM

14. DU is easily trolled

I'm comforted to see that outside of DU it's mostly Trump humpers fauxraged and demanding Bee's head, for example.

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Response to kcr (Reply #14)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 10:54 AM

18. Easily.

And to be an easy target of trolls is not something to be proud of, to put it nicely.

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Response to dogknob (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 10:22 AM

8. Bollocks...

Who knows how this all turns out?

Nothingparticularly admirable about cynical pretensions though...

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Response to dogknob (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 10:31 AM

12. I'm at a national groups camping get together

And I'm hearing A LOT of people who voted for the drumpf saying that they wished they hadn't.

The word hate is in most of the conversations I'm hearing also, more than once.

These are people who are not deplorables in the sense of they hate us, just folks who made the wrong call.

Even the most ardent supporter of dumpf I met here last year has thrown his t-shirt in the dumpster and he was a trumper big time.

It's looking better all the time, the bad guys will not win this time.

What tells me that is the level of conversation I've been hearing, the topic is dumpf when people gather here.

And they are pissed.


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Response to dogknob (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 10:31 AM

13. we have never been here as a nation

This is all new. The US is no longer fighting for democracy or leadership of the world or even for our moral beliefs. Now many in the US are apathetic or fighting for what they are told to fight, like that Lying Hillary. Some people are now having buyers remorse about Trump but to stop following his direction and say Trump was wrong would mean those people were wrong and its rare for a human to admit they are wrong so here we sit barreling toward civil discourse because we don't have anything to fight for as a country.

Greece and Rome have been here however.....

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Response to dogknob (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 10:43 AM

15. If you are defining the bad guys as Republicans...

They are far from unified.

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Response to dogknob (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 10:44 AM

16. So no... that's not really it.

I'm unaware of anyone casting a vote in the 2018/20 cycles whose decisions will be predicated on a word.

So no... that's not really it unless or until you can support your conclusion with objective evidence.

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Response to dogknob (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 10:46 AM

17. If the use of one word is enough for us to lose an election

then yeah we're in a pretty weak position. Maybe we need to be less delicate.

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Response to dogknob (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 10:58 AM

19. Who are the bad guys? What's their singular purpose? n/t

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Response to dogknob (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 10:58 AM

20. Also, if our path to victory is predicated on getting votes from racist white people

whose vote is determined by whether they hear the word "wypipo" - and people who would vote based on that are pretty high on the racism scale - we've already lost. We can't win against the Republicans on a plank of "hey racist people - I've got your back." And would we want to win at that? Would we want to even try?

African Americans are the most reliable Democratic voting block. Why are we so worried about what white people think and not about our most reliable voters?

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Response to gollygee (Reply #20)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 11:12 AM

22. Why does it have to

be either or? If any organization is not growing it's dying. Just because we cannot reach Trump voters does not mean we cannot deter others from developmenting the same sentiments as Trump voters or we can't push others away that might be on the fence.

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Response to standingtall (Reply #22)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 01:13 PM

23. In this case, we are centering one group's comfort over another group's comfort

African Americans face oppression and one way they deal with that is with humor. They have found a particular situation for which they did not have a good way of communicating, and they found a humorous way to talk about it. To police their language at DU would be uncomfortable and unreasonable. In direct opposition to that would be to center the comfort of people who are "on the fence" about whether to vote for Democrats based on this word, and say "no that word isn't allowed here." White people are in the position of social power in this country, so I think we should be the ones to manage discomfort. And I'm still super skeptical about the existence of anyone who is making voting choices based on whether they hear the word "wypipo" and I'm not very empathetic about their comfort if that's where they are.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #23)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 02:36 PM

24. You seem to be forgetting racism is a learned behavior

just because some white people do not hold racial sentiments does not mean they are immune to external influences like racist uncle Johnny in their ear who they may not take seriously but if they start to feel like they are being broad brushed and all lumped into one group they might start to wrongly think uncle Johnny's arguments have merit.

Words have multiple meanings so the context largely defines the meaning so if someone is going to use a term like that they should clarify who they meant by it and who they don't mean.

Lots of language is policed on democratic underground for example the discussion for or against the merits of religion are forbidden on the main board and is only permitted to be discussed on the main board if it's related to a news article. There are safe spaces for these type of things.

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Response to dogknob (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2018, 11:02 AM

21. The bad guys have been winning for a long time.

Trump, Putin, the Koch Brothers, Fox News, the billionaire class - they have been winning for quite a long time and there has been almost no opposition to all the evil shit they've proposed. Hopefully we will be able to make a huge dent in their plans in November.

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