Got into an argument with a friend about marijuana being a gateway drug.

[Are_grits_groceries]

I said it wasn't and she said it was.

I said that studies have shown that the use of marijuana is not a certainty to lead to harder drugs. There will be people where there is a link that could be shown, but that it is not as big a problem in that area as people like to believe.

I said that the war on marijuana needs to be stopped and the resources concentrated on other substances like meth. You want to give somebody a drug that's going to destroy them, give them meth.

In addition, I said that as a harmful substance, alcohol does tremendous damage. If she wnted to clean up wholesale abuse in a great number of people, that would be a start. People using any drug can cause problems. However, you rarely if ever read about destruction on the highways caused by marijuana use.

Gateway or not?

[Live and Learn]

1. If it is (pure speculation of course), it is only because

it is the first one kids are usually exposed to and they find out right away that they have been lied to about the effects. Given that, they assume we have lied to them about all drugs and are just trying to keep them from having fun.

[cherokeeprogressive]

2. I agree. And that makes it a gateway drug. n/t

[hobbit709]

11. I'd say the first drug for most is alcohol.

And pot certainly wasn't the first drug I did-it was acid.

[Live and Learn]

13. But alcohol isn't considered a drug so why confuse the issue here?

Gateway drug really is a stupid term. What does it mean; anything that makes you feel better or able to cope? Are thumb sucking, nail biting, chocolate not the real gateway drugs then?

And doing acid as your first drug would certainly not be the norm although today it might well be Ecstasy, Oxycontin, bath salts or whatever currently, legal chemical confection or prescription drug one can find.

[EOTE]

22. Alcohol isn't considered to be a drug?

By whom?

[Earth_First]

35. Alcohol is most certainly a clinically recognized drug... n/t

[hobbit709]

38. If you want to quibble the semantic differences between a legal and a medical definition.

Here's another one: Cocaine is legally classified as a "narcotic" Medically it's a stimulant-the exact opposite.

[ThomThom]

36. I would say cigarettes start most kids off

curiosity of what is forbidden will do it every time
not that I am advocating drug use for kids I am not. These are adult products and if sold responsibly children could not get them like cigs and alcohol now are

[hifiguy]

69. I had my first beer before I tried a cigarette.

I liked beer but hated cigarettes. As an adult I have been known to smoke a pipe or a good cigar on occasion, but I have smoked only two cigarettes in my life. They tasted awful and made me nauseous.

Weed, on the other hand.... Let's just say

[ThomThom]

80. I was just the opposite

smoked cigs first never liked beer much, still don't

[zzaapp]

51. LOL, me too. Pot never agreed with my head......but

windowpane? woooooweeee

[Politicalboi]

3. I have always thought about it this way

If MJ was legal, you would buy it at a store like beer and cigs. The guy behind the counter is not going to whip out a line of Cocaine and ask you if you want to buy some. Since MJ is illegal, it makes it a possible gateway only because it's illegal, and the place you buy may offer you something "new". But I have always hated that "Gateway" shit. Alcohol is advertised to kids all the time, and even the fancy drinks they sell like Red Bull is only prepping them for booze.

[Spike89]

70. Precisely! Only a gateway because it is in the "bad neighborhood"

Make M&Ms illegal and have them distributed by dealers who also sell meth, heroin, coke, etc. and voila', M&M's can be statistically shown to lead directly into hard drug use.
Legal pot, even regulated like alcohol, would separate it from the dealer and thus the neighborhood of more addictive, powerful drugs that younger kids especially might not be ready to handle.

[Downwinder]

4. I would submit that the real gateway drug is alcohol.

[bemildred]

5. All drugs are gateway drugs.

Once you get the idea of taking stuff to feel good, you find there are many ways to do that.

But no drug leads to any particular other drugs, as a side effect, it's socially conditioned, if it's conditioned at all..

It would be the legal drugs which would mostly serve as "gateway drugs", introducing people to the idea, being the first recreational drugs they try, and then they would move on to the illegal stuff. And I'll bet that if they did a study, that's what they would find.

[rock]

48. Just to show you how opinions vary

I've always thought that no drugs were gateways drugs. Mainly because the concept doesn't have a scientific basis for existence. Somebody just made it up.

[bemildred]

62. That's just the other side of my coin.

So to speak. I thought about pointing out that the notion is unfalsifiable, and undefined, but decided on a slightly different slant.

[rock]

83. Ooh, I think you've nailed it! n/t

[pecwae]

6. It can be.

I've seen people who've started out using it go on to hard core drug use. I've also seen people who've used it for years, and are still using it, never go on to anything other than pot.

AFAIC alcohol is the most immediate danger to a life being controlled and usually ruined by drug use.

[alphafemale]

7. Spinning around in circles until your are dizzy and fall down.

That's the first gateway drug.

[2pooped2pop]

8. study: alcohol gateway drug not pot

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1170612


Not all drinkers become drug users but I'm sure all drug users have drank.

Of course most heroin addicts drank milk as a child. I believe that perhaps it's the milk that is the true gateway.


Seriously all of those who have drank and have smoked pot know which one is by far the most dangerous.

It's only the drug company's, tobacco and alcohol companys who don't want the competition, that keep paying the congress to keep pot illegal even for medicine. (hey, but morphine is ok as medicine, so all is well) Plus, I am sure there is someone within the govt. who is bringing the pot in and keeps it illegal so they can continue to control it and keep getting rich off of it.

The gateway though- the readily available alcohol. Found in most homes and legal.

[Are_grits_groceries]

12. Meh!

The tobacco companies can't wait for marijuana to be legal. They are ready to roll, no pun intended, to produce their own brands. They might create a completely different segment to separate it from their other products.
It would sell because people would trust that source even if that's not a safe bet.

Now as far as the drug companies and the alcohol companies, they are probably lobbying hard against it.

[2pooped2pop]

14. yes you are probably right on that one

but we have thought that since the 70's and still no Acapulco Gold packs on the store shelves.

[Bandit]

25. Ever been to a medical marijuana shop?

They have pretty much everything in them, including packs of Acapulca Gold...

[2pooped2pop]

27. no, I haven't

hopefully someday that will be available for me. Would love to see one.
That's hilarious that Acapulco Gold did make the cut. I vaguely remember reading that book back in the 70's.

[ThomThom]

34. If tobacco companies are ready then why are they not lobbying for legalization?

I heard they had packaging designed in the 70's but then nothing

[Spike89]

73. Don't want to be seen as out front on this

The tobacco lobby is extremely concerned with PR. Just because they aren't making news lobbying for legalized pot, doesn't mean they aren't working behind the scenes to both get it legal and get the franchise.
I totally don't buy "big pharma" being the shadow force keeping pot illegal. If they can take something as common and inexpensive as fish oil and package it in a slightly modified pill form, they can certainly find a way to package and market pot. In fact, I expect that eventually the big battle will be between the tobacco companies and pharma, with a third player (the supplement/natural faction) having the broadest support but neither the influence or money to compete.
There really isn't a conspiracy (IMHO) as much as their is a lot of fear, misinformation, and inertia behind the continued anti-pot laws. True, a majority of Americans may be for legalization, but it isn't a hot-button topic for most of those people.

[JohnnyRingo]

29. Drug dealers hang out in bars

Clubs and bars are the best place to find customers, so alcohol must be the gateway.

[justiceischeap]

9. For people predisposed to have addictions, it certainly can be a gateway drug

My sister was one of those people. She started with MJ and alcohol to numb her pain and when those weren't sufficient enough, she moved on to other drugs eventually ending up with a years long heroin addiction that was finally kicked and replaced by a prescription pill addiction until her death (which may or may not have contributed directly to her death).

[Fumesucker]

10. I'm sorry for the loss of your sister, that must have been hard..

But it sounds like the pain she had was her ultimate problem, not the drugs per se.

[justiceischeap]

15. You are correct, her mental/emotional pain contributed

but she also had a father that was a prescription drug addict (she was my step-sister)... I believe studies have shown addiction can be hereditary and I believe she did inherit that gene.

Like I said, I think it can be a gateway drug for SOME people but I also think that other circumstances do come in to play.

[Mopar151]

39. Haight - Ashbury Free Clinic's head doc.

Sez 1 parent with an addiction problem = 7x more likely to have a problem. 2 parents = 35X more likely.

[Fozzledick]

57. That sounds to me like the usual pattern.

Those who are genetically predisposed to addiction try every drug available until they find something that will relieve their pain, usually alcohol or heroin.

There's no gateway phenomenon, but marijuana is usually the first illegal drug they use simply because it's the most available.

The actual first drug used and the first addiction is almost always tobacco since it's the easiest to obtain and the easiest to become addicted to.

[riderinthestorm]

30. I am so sorry for your loss....

My daughter's got an addictive personality and we've found in our group sessions at the rehab place that there are some (very few) who simply can't take anything, including pot. On the other hand my husband's got lymphoma and we know plenty of folks who use MJ to alleviate chemo symptoms and stimulate appetite. I'm literally living both ends of the spectrum.

I've got a loser/stoner nephew - 32 years old and lives in an MJ haze almost 24/7. I would never say he's addicted but boy his life is nowheresville since he took it up.

I'd love to see MJ decriminalized. Its way over due. Keeping it illegal makes about as much sense as keeping alcohol illegal.

[HappyMe]

16. I don't think it's a gateway drug.

I think that alcohol is far more harmful.

[Gman]

17. FWIW, I've a friend that was explaining to us how

after 12 years or so of being drug free, all it would take is one toke and he'd be off looking for crank. And no telling what after that. But he has a self acknowledged addictive personality and he is by no means the norm. That's just him.

[99Forever]

24. Hence...

... some would lecture us:


"Baby can't chew steak, so everyone eats mush."

[RevStPatrick]

18. Saw this one yesterday...

[n2doc]

20. 20 now n/t

[2pooped2pop]

28. Love it. lol n/t

[1-Old-Man]

19. This is just pure horse shit - there is no such thing as a gateway drug

Because if you don't do the 'gateway drug' it does not prevent you from taking other drugs. Its not gateway at all because the gate is always open. Using Marijuana does not cause you to use other drugs and not using marijuana does not preclude you from taking other drugs. Its no gate at all.

[99Forever]

21. My "gateway drug" was ...

... aspirin. If only Mom hadn't led me down that road....



The entire premise of "gateway drug" is nothing more than propaganda parading around pretending to be rational thought.

MJ is illegal for one reason only, it can be grown in such a way that neither the government or the 1%ers that own that government, can figure out a way to suck all of the profit out of it.

[Arkansas Granny]

43. And if Big Pharma could figure out a way to monopolize MJ, it would be legalized tomorrow.

[99Forever]

52. Exactly.

For two reasons.

First, to reap the high profit from a product that requiring very little processing and secondly, controlling access to this natural medicine instead of the toxic crap they now push, keeps their over-priced chemicals viable.

[HughBeaumont]

23. My dad's Penthouses were my gateway drug.

Thankfully, my addiction doesn't cost me anything but time.

[darkangel218]

26. I am proud to say i have never used marijuana

Or any other illegal drug for that matter. I couldn't comment on how good or bad it is, as I personally rather stay away from intoxicants ( with the exception of beer!! ) Cheers!

[Mopar151]

37. Congratulations on maintaining your hypocrisy

Alcahol is a sloppy and dangerous drug, toxic in the long term, with one of the lowest effective - to - lethal dose ratios. The metabolic effects are particularly nasty for the products of the brewer's art, as liquefied carbohydrates duke it out with alcahol's effect on blood sugar.
But they advertise it on TV! It must be OK...... If most people handle alcahol responsibly, they should have little trouble with cannibas, which is not toxic and has minimal metabolic effects, once you learn to munch out on fresh veggies and whole grains.

[darkangel218]

40. its alcohol not alcahol :)

And having a glass a beer once a week, I doubt it would negatively affect my health

[Mopar151]

42. Depends on your body chemistry

I know a guy who was a stone alky from the first beer he ever drank. And be glad you don't have Hepatitis A, B, or C, or renal failure.

[darkangel218]

46. Nope, none of that, perfectly healthy here.

I'm not judging those who use marijuana, its your body, as far as I'm concerned do whatever you want to it. The legal liabilities are another issue, I don't know if smoking pot its worth it in our society. Illegal drugs are not for me, but to each their own!

[KansDem]

54. Hey! Pour one for me!

I'll be done here shortly...

[darkangel218]

60. You got it, Cheers!

[Mopar151]

45. A hot tip, for us once-a week drinkers

Drink that frothy pint of brew with a nice hot bowl of homemade soup. Improves the buzz, helps with the toxins, better for the soul.

[Comrade Grumpy]

78. True enough; it may even have positive effects, but it is a drug.

[darkangel218]

81. I never said it it wasnt.

However, it is a legal one.

[Drale]

61. As humans we are all hypocrites in some ways

and its been proven that alcohol has health benefits, although there are also risks, but there was risks in everything we do. You could step out into the street and get hit by a bus.

[laundry_queen]

68. Someone else who has never used an illegal drug here.

I had an alcohol problem however, when I was in my teens. My dad was/is a functional alcoholic. I cleaned up once I met my (now ex) future husband and then had a baby. I still drink on occasion, but don't really like it anymore.

You can sit on your high horse with regards to how you personally would rather stay away form intoxicants, but not everyone ends up using for the same reasons, and not everyone who ends up addicted meant to go in that direction in the first place. There are a lot of things at play - abusive upbringing, brain chemistry, access to drugs, if your doctor likes to throw pills at problems, whether or not you have a chronic health problem etc. I'm glad you are proud of yourself but I hope you don't judge those who have had a more difficult path than you have. I'm lucky - there were many many times I had free access to drugs but I had friends who knew I had never tried it before and even though they used, they tried to keep me away from it. Not everyone has such great friends.

[ThomThom]

31. addiction to anything can be damaging

mental or physical
acting responsibly is the bottom line

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

32. IMHO

alcohol is the gateway drug. But most people don't think of it as a drug. But it is.

[DefenseLawyer]

33. Assume that it is.

There's no real data that shows that it is, but just assume that the devil weed is the gateway to all things bad. The real question is, does prohibition work? Has it ever worked? Are there any benefits that we have seen from marijuana prohibition that have come close being worth the enormous cost of the drug war? If the answer to those questions is no, (HINT: the answer to those questions is no) then the question of whether marijuana is good or bad or kinda bad or kinda good just isn't important at all. Prohibition doesn't work. It's a bad idea. Whether marijuana is awesome or a bane to our existence, prohibition doesn't work.

[leftyladyfrommo]

41. Alcohol is the Gateway Drug

I know I just read this not too long ago. It makes sense.

I have smoked pot for probably 40+ years and i have never had any inclination to try anything else - and I don't drink at all. I have never even seen cocaine or meth or heroin. Don't want anything to do with any of those drugs.

I've never gotten addicted to the stuff. If I over do it I don't want any for a while. I might kind of wish I had it for about three days and then any craving for it just goes away.

[Egalitarian Thug]

44. Once you accept the false premise, you lose the argument. There is no such thing as a

Gateway drug.

[The Midway Rebel]

47. I started with cigarettes and alcohol.

Oh, and Grandma turned me on to this stuff called "coffee" which I am still addicted to. And all before that first bong hit back in 1978.

I gave up tobbacco and booze...mostly. I often split a glass of wine at dinner with my wife and roll a cigarette if I get the urge to feel like a cowboy once or twice a year.

I'm with George Carlin on this one...mother's milk is a gateway drug.

[BlueJazz]

49. Don't know if this adds anything to the topic but being in bands most...

of my life, I've seen 40-50 people (in various bands) that smoked pot. Only one, that I knew of, did coke.

I think people that WOULD have gone on to stronger other drugs would have done so, regardless whether they smoked pot or not.

Just me 2 cents

[leftyladyfrommo]

50. That's been my experience, too. n/t

[zzaapp]

55. I also have been in bands all of my life (hobby)

And although I have nothing against MJ, it has been my experience that it doesn't help with things like timing,
remembering words etc. (I'm sure Jerry, RIP would disagree)

BlueJazz, have you ever played with a drummer who has "drunk drummer syndrome ?" That's when the drummer, after about 8 beers and three shots, keeps changing meter during the song,
and thinks it's the rest of the band who is off? lol
That's a lot of fun.

[BlueJazz]

84. Oh yes...and some that speed up as the group gets louder. Most of them though, have..

been fairly rock-solid. (excuse the pun)

[zzaapp]

89. "Rock Solid" lol

[kestrel91316]

53. NOT.

I ought to know. I smoked plenty of weed in college, where I had access to a number of other substances, but never once touched them.

IMHO the only thing cannabis is a "gateway" to is a good night's sleep and a day without pain.

[RKP5637]

56. IMO the gateway drug (whatever that means) to abuse is far more

complex than picking one item and saying there, that's it, it's a gateway drug. One could say coffee is a gateway drug. One could say compulsive gambling is a gateway ... Some people are compulsive and might pick a 'feel-good' item and abuse it ...

If one looks at meth, there is a dangerous drug. Marijuana, not so much, not at all. Mankind has always liked highs. The difficulties I see are rather than accepting that fact and providing a legitimate drug, legalized, beyond alcohol, we do nothing sensible ... So the moralists step in and create misinformation.

Relative to body abuse, alcohol is far more abusive to ones body than marijuana could ever hope to be ...

A lot of people IMO are just parrots when they talk about gateway drugs, etc., just echoing what they might have heard without any 'real' facts or investigation. Then, MSM is a giant echo chamber. Real facts and information get lost in all of the fog.

I've known so many people that are border alcoholics that claim they don't do drugs. Yet another WTF, claiming alcohol is not a drug.

[Drale]

58. It can be with young teens in this way

and I saw this happen to one of my high school friends. He figured that because every adult had lied to him that marijuana was bad, they must be lying about other drug as well and he became a heroin addicts and overdosed. When we found out he was doing heroin we told him to stop because it was changing him into a bad person, who was obviously an addict but he refused to listen. It was a sad day when he died but unfortunately it was a long time coming. All this because adults want to lie about to keep their kids off drugs. Personally I've found the best way to stop someone from doing something is to sit them down, tell them the truth and explain why you don't want them doing it.

[RKP5637]

64. That, is the base line problem, all of the lies and distortions about

drugs and many things. When adults lie about drugs, for example, they lose all credibility with teens IMO, and as teens find out some things were lies, they assume most things they were told were lies, and therein can start the abuse cycle.

We, as a society, need to grow up and be more mature in what we say are facts. We need facts, not lies and distortions.

[Major Nikon]

59. Here's how you solve that debate

Q: If they sold meth, crack, cocaine, ecstasy, and heroin at the liquor store, wouldn't that make liquor a "gateway drug"?

A: Umm, I guess.

Q: So forcing pot users to go to drug dealers to get their product is different how?

[Initech]

63. Easiest way to explain the war on drugs:

Let's look at two musicians.

The first is Michael Jackson. He took a cocktail of dangerous anesthetics and called it his "milk" - and did so without supervision. He's dead.

The second is Keith Richards. He took every recreational drug in the book - and he's still alive.

Any questions?

[hifiguy]

85. Keef will probably live to a very ripe old age.

He's been off the hard stuff for decades. Whiskey and MJ are all he's used in years. Many of the old jazzmen and bluesmen gigged well into their 80s. Keef has the constitution of a brass eagle and will keep on rollin' 'til they put the toe tag on him in his late 80s.

[Initech]

87. I like what Bill Hicks said:

"I picture nuclear war and two things surviving - Keith Richards and bugs. I saw a bright light.. I thought it was time to go on! Where's Mick???"

[dionysus]

65. cigs n booze are the real gateway drugs...

[True Earthling]

66. The real gateway is draconian drug laws

My personal experience, many moons ago was the people I bought from also had a plethora of other mind altering goodies of which I was all to eager to try. My dealer(s) were excellent marketers who knew how to up-sell. I doubt if I would have ever been involved in half the stuff I did if not for the easy access. If there was a way to buy pot without the temptations of all the other stuff there would be no gateway.

Marijuana itself is not a gateway buy the environment that one is forced to navigate due to draconian drug laws is the real gateway.

[ocd liberal]

67. Most definitely NOT!

The real gateway drug is BEER.

[mitchtv]

71. aspirin and coke

the premier gateway drug

[piratefish08]

72. a drug dealer is a gateway drug.

legalize it.

[cliffordu]

74. Gateway to overdosing

on Doritos, but that's about it, I think.

Beer is the gateway to all drugs.

[sibelian]

75. I used to use it and had very clear ideas about what drugs I was willing to try.

I no longer use any of them, but I was always very clear that I was never giong to take anything addictive. Well, except cigarettes, which I still haven't managed to give up.

Really I think it comes down to how well educated you are about the drugs you're using. I think there might be a "gateway" aspect to some softer drugs like cannabis but only if the people using the drug don't understand that drug use isn't like grocery shopping "ooooh, that looks nice, think I'll try it".

[mick063]

76. A gateway to sobriety

When I was young, weed was a indeed gateway drug.

I stopped drinking alcohol and used pot instead.


It was a gateway to escape using alcohol for recreation.

[Tom Ripley]

77. There is NO sound scientific basis for the idea of a "gateway drug"

[TeamPooka]

79. the only gateway exists because of prohibition

if the only person who sells it only sells prohibited black market drugs then that is why you are exposed to it.
End prohibition and you end the gateway.
Legalize, tax and regulate.

[Bennyboy]

82. Smoking Marijuana Leads to....

Gold Medals! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nick-graham/michael-phelps-bong-pictu_b_162842.html


Cy Young Awards: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1152611-25-elite-athletes-who-also-smoke-pot


Music sweet music: (show me one who HASN'T smoked weed including some of the more vocal right wingers who stopped smoking weed and turned into idiots)


The sense of adventure leads to drug use.

[hifiguy]

86. An oldie but a goodie: