Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
49 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
To the kneeling haters...thought about this? (Original Post) Heartstrings May 2018 OP
Dodging the draft disrespects the flag? WTF? WhiskeyGrinder May 2018 #1
Pretty sure that's a jab at Trump oberliner May 2018 #2
Spanky Bonespurs I believe RainCaster May 2018 #3
dodging the draft when you support the war rurallib May 2018 #44
On target as always! ProudLib72 May 2018 #4
Is there a difference between kneeling haters and people who think mythology May 2018 #5
With You On Nearly Every Point 100% ProfessorGAC May 2018 #30
trump Disses America and is selling it down Cha May 2018 #6
the sink holes await him and his. sheshe2 May 2018 #8
Trying to be so patient Cha May 2018 #10
Yeah... sheshe2 May 2018 #12
No, one could not Cha May 2018 #13
Brilliant. Amaryllis May 2018 #7
Boom! sheshe2 May 2018 #9
i have issues about draft dodging. nam was fucked up. pansypoo53219 May 2018 #11
True Haggis for Breakfast May 2018 #15
In wartime, it's not that easy. BobTheSubgenius May 2018 #20
I think it is perfectly fine to dodge the draft even if it is not because of "conscience" ExciteBike66 May 2018 #29
Depends on why one dodged. Grokenstein May 2018 #18
i had an uncle who dodged. Kurt V. May 2018 #37
Non-citizens do not have to honor the flag. keithbvadu2 May 2018 #14
OMG, jazzcat23 May 2018 #19
On SNAP !! Haggis for Breakfast May 2018 #16
About the top sign: BadgerMom May 2018 #17
Respect the Kneel. Guilded Lilly May 2018 #21
I am suspicious about the number of Jehovah's Witnesses - seems on the high side robbedvoter May 2018 #22
Yeah, they got that wrong. 8.4 million JW globally. Only 1.2 million JW in the United States. progressoid May 2018 #23
Love this! NCTraveler May 2018 #24
As a spectator I would kneel with them. LakeArenal May 2018 #25
New Slogan: DFW May 2018 #26
Mic drop!! InAbLuEsTaTe May 2018 #27
Love it, except the part about the draft ExciteBike66 May 2018 #28
It's a dig at Trump oberliner May 2018 #39
minngal marieo1 May 2018 #31
All Jehovah's Witnesses and Amish must leave the country now. Sneederbunk May 2018 #32
It will take longer for the Amish to leave by bugy Oppaloopa May 2018 #34
K & R SunSeeker May 2018 #33
Religious liberty always wins Crash2Parties May 2018 #35
Seems appropriate to remember that the hater in the Whitehouse Enoki33 May 2018 #36
Dodging the draft during the Vietnam War was NOT disrespecting the flag. Nitram May 2018 #38
It's a dig at Trump oberliner May 2018 #40
A misguided dig. A very poorly written meme. An insult to anti-war protestors. Nitram May 2018 #41
Trump's dodging of the draft wasn't an anti-war protest oberliner May 2018 #42
Totally. LakeArenal May 2018 #43
It doesn't say Trump. It says "draft dodger." But never mind. You clearly didn't live through the Nitram May 2018 #47
Trump is the one saying kneeling disrespects the flag oberliner May 2018 #48
+1 Peaceful Protester May 2018 #45
I'm white. I'll go kneel with DUers at any event. sharedvalues May 2018 #46
The flaw in your argument... brooklynite May 2018 #49
 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
5. Is there a difference between kneeling haters and people who think
Thu May 24, 2018, 09:43 PM
May 2018

the NFL is stupid to do this but that it is almost certainly legal other than perhaps has an issue with the players' union?

I have no problems with the players that kneel, or those who don't based on what their morals encourage them to do.

I actually find the habit of playing the anthem before sporting events to be frankly stupid. But when I'm at a Special Olympics meet as a coach, yes I put my hand over my heart. When I'm at an event as myself, I stand but don't put my hand over my heart and ponder how annoyingly long the singer is going to try to stretch out the end of the song.

I find the notion of paying respect to a flag in general rather silly. It's a piece of cloth. The ideals behind it I can appreciate it, but then why bother to insert the flag and not just talk about the ideals you have respect for?

ProfessorGAC

(64,425 posts)
30. With You On Nearly Every Point 100%
Fri May 25, 2018, 12:31 PM
May 2018

Except for the "if i'm there" thing. Perhaps it's a brainlock from the 70's when students didn't stand for the anthem before football or basketball games to show they were against Nixon and the war. Perhaps i've never gotten past that.

Taking it to an extreme, when they played it before a basketball game when i was in high school, i once or twice went to the corner beyond the bench and practiced dribbling. During the song. I got asked not to do it again, but didn't really get in trouble. The rest of those seasons, i just left the floor and went to the bathroom before the game started.

I'd probably still do that.

On your first point, i do agree that there is no legal issue but there is a potential players' union conflict. This is particularly true in professional sports where the player is not just the employee, but also the product.

One can run a business and not care about alienating employees, (not wise but doable), but nobody can alienate their own product. Nobody who makes convenience foods runs commercials to tell people how much better the food is if you cook it yourself. Nobody would run a car company, and then run ads to tell people the other manufacturers make better cars.

The NFL is alienating the players here, and that's a lot different than telling a normal employee "you don't like it? The door is there." They take the door, there is no business.

Haggis for Breakfast

(6,831 posts)
15. True
Thu May 24, 2018, 11:05 PM
May 2018

But there were other ways to avoid it, if your conscience was conflicted.

It does not take any conviction to lie about having bone spurs and then not even remember which foot was impacted. My Uncle had bone spurs and believe me, even after the surgeries, he NEVER forgot which foot they were on !!

Also, there were pictures of trump - at the time he was claiming bone spurs - where is he playing a rigorous game of tennis. You can barely walk with bone spurs on your feet, and you sure as Hell are NOT playing any freaking tennis.

BobTheSubgenius

(11,535 posts)
20. In wartime, it's not that easy.
Fri May 25, 2018, 12:16 AM
May 2018

As my father put it "If you can see lightning, hear thunder and have 2 teeth, you're in."

ExciteBike66

(2,280 posts)
29. I think it is perfectly fine to dodge the draft even if it is not because of "conscience"
Fri May 25, 2018, 12:19 PM
May 2018

COs are great, but one need not be anti-war in order to dodge any particular conflict.

Certainly Trump lied about his own deformities, but I can't really fault him for dodging Vietnam. I of course can fault him for later supporting similar wars (or indeed any war).

Grokenstein

(5,707 posts)
18. Depends on why one dodged.
Thu May 24, 2018, 11:22 PM
May 2018

Bill Clinton, for example, avoided getting shipped off against his will to Vietnam, but publicly opposed the war (something which at the time was still potentially dangerous to one's political career and health). As president he backed military actions, but (aside from some fringe-loon rants one might read about him setting up a personal dictatorship in Haiti, seriously WTF) none were the sort of blatant occupations intended to enrich the already wealthy.

Li'l Dubby, Darth Cheney, Dan Quayle, Cadet Bonespurs McBowlingtrophy, Rushbo and countless others dodged the draft yet still openly adore the thought a nice long war of choice full of no-bid contracts for "friends."

Kurt V.

(5,624 posts)
37. i had an uncle who dodged.
Fri May 25, 2018, 05:16 PM
May 2018

i had an uncle who was drafted and went to Vietnam. my two uncles were as close as two men can be after that war

marieo1

(1,402 posts)
31. minngal
Fri May 25, 2018, 12:38 PM
May 2018

I am proud of the NFL players that kneel!! No one else is even trying to stop the abuse of blacks, children, women, gays and the list goes on and on. At least these NFL players are calling attention to a situation in our country that needs to change. What does our flag stand for anyway? I believe it stands for equality, justice, safety of everyone regardless of color, race, gender, etc. - it stands for everyone in our country being safe, not just a select few. A simple way to stop the kneeling is for everyone of us to get on board and protest the injustices. I'm sure if the police brutality, mass shootings, abuse of blacks, women, children, etc stopped so would the kneeling. More power to the respected NFL players.

Enoki33

(1,584 posts)
36. Seems appropriate to remember that the hater in the Whitehouse
Fri May 25, 2018, 04:26 PM
May 2018

who tries to claim it is somehow unpatriotic to kneel is himself an established traitor who conspired with a foreign dictator for money to steal an election. He is therefore illegitimate, and not qualified to pass any sort of judgment.

Nitram

(22,671 posts)
38. Dodging the draft during the Vietnam War was NOT disrespecting the flag.
Fri May 25, 2018, 06:53 PM
May 2018

Only right wingers thought that. It was a stupid, illegal, and terribly destructive war. You can only accuse a draft dodger of disrespecting the flag if he goes on to lead the nation into more such wars.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
42. Trump's dodging of the draft wasn't an anti-war protest
Fri May 25, 2018, 07:08 PM
May 2018

It was just him being an entitled jerk.

Nitram

(22,671 posts)
47. It doesn't say Trump. It says "draft dodger." But never mind. You clearly didn't live through the
Sat May 26, 2018, 03:30 PM
May 2018

Vietnam War.

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
46. I'm white. I'll go kneel with DUers at any event.
Fri May 25, 2018, 08:22 PM
May 2018

You name the event. We go together and kneel shoulder to shoulder. I’m in.

brooklynite

(93,873 posts)
49. The flaw in your argument...
Sat May 26, 2018, 04:14 PM
May 2018

...is that the JWs and the Amish aren't public figures. Nobody knows what they don't do.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»To the kneeling haters......