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Sun May 13, 2018, 04:40 AM

Racism is not dying





Ignorance is not bliss

31 replies, 1927 views

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Arrow 31 replies Author Time Post
Reply Racism is not dying (Original post)
Soph0571 May 13 OP
misanthrope May 13 #1
Hortensis May 13 #2
Kurt V. May 13 #4
betsuni May 13 #6
KY_EnviroGuy May 13 #7
Kurt V. May 13 #10
KY_EnviroGuy May 13 #11
Hortensis May 13 #13
KY_EnviroGuy May 13 #15
nolabels May 13 #20
KY_EnviroGuy May 14 #25
nolabels May 14 #31
maddiemom May 13 #8
Hortensis May 13 #12
Kurt V. May 13 #19
Hortensis May 13 #21
Kurt V. May 13 #22
Hortensis May 13 #23
SCantiGOP May 13 #5
Hortensis May 13 #14
Uncle Joe May 13 #16
MrScorpio May 13 #3
Bernardo de La Paz May 13 #9
MineralMan May 13 #17
csziggy May 13 #18
dalton99a May 14 #29
gollygee May 13 #24
elocs May 14 #26
AllaN01Bear May 14 #27
OneGrassRoot May 14 #28
Runningdawg May 14 #30

Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2018, 04:57 AM

1. That's the way it works

I've seen little abatement of it in my 54 years on the pale blue dot. It just gets passed on, generation to generation.

I was absolutely floored -- and incredibly touched -- when the United States elected an African-American POTUS. I fully anticipated the conflagration of racism that arose during his time in office.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2018, 05:19 AM

2. We're born with various genetic dispositions to bias

Last edited Sun May 13, 2018, 05:54 AM - Edit history (2)

against what is different and unknown, and thus possibly dangerous. So, no, manifestations of bias as racism, political bigotry, religious hostility will never completely disappear. Bias stems from survival instincts.

In extremely broad terms, conservatives tended to be more cautious when strangers appeared on the far riverbank, knowing disease or violence could wipe them out, liberals more eager to row over and make friends and trade for new, strange goods. But all had some inborn caution based on fear and survival instincts. And still do.

In some conservatives, though, fear generates hostility against "other," whatever that may be. Our daughter's very strongly social conservative sister-in-law identifies anyone who so much as eats sushi as "other." She is charming and pretty, and filled with fear and hostility. She really doesn't like Jews, but there's no one for her to call to have my daughter and husband picked up so she acts out in other ways.

These are are the world's biggest troublemakers; and in every nation where they come to dominate government, troubles follow. Currently, due to anxieties caused by great changes and uncertainties, they're having a surge in power in many nations, powered by widespread anxiety.

We all need to watch out for those. Most disguise themselves and their agendas, but they're revealed by actions that increase strife and divisions, that result in the anger they intend to foment against "other." Hostility can be hidden behind false fronts, but not its effects.

But even those types can be taught to be less fearful and racist in good times. Plus, hugely, they are substantially outnumbered by the rest of humanity, who can usually get along at worst and even respect and enjoy diversity at best. Racism really is diminishing as peoples intermingle, even if the worst of humanity is having yet another fear- and resentment-powered day.

As for all these pot-stirring messages that claim racism is as big a problem as it ever was: These days they all reliably cause boil-overs of outraged distress against racism, disproving their premises. Didn't used to be that way. Here in the deep south, you typically don't see the rush to self-flagellation some white posters indulge in here, but the rejection of acting out of racism is every bit as real among most. It's not acceptable or accepted.

Because our racism problems are hugely diminished compared to the past, not long ago. Society advances. And in spite of the agitation of this period following huge advances, we're still the nation who created those huge advances.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #2)

Sun May 13, 2018, 06:28 AM

4. I think fear of other is learned behavior, not genetic.

for example: does a white baby and a black baby (or any two races) fear each other? i don't think they do.

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Response to Kurt V. (Reply #4)

Sun May 13, 2018, 07:11 AM

6. You are correct.

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Response to Kurt V. (Reply #4)

Sun May 13, 2018, 07:18 AM

7. Kurt, I'm not an anthropologist but..

I like to philosophy on our heritage as an amateur. I do that - mainly referring to our primitive roots - to try and understand and perhaps accept human behavior that seems disturbing to me.

I do think we have inherited a degree of tribalism genetically from our ancient ancestors, probably from when we were early hunter/gatherers and became social creatures. I would guess those groups were highly suspicious of any outsiders, particularly if they looked or behaved differently - as groups competed for food and security. And, I'm thinking back to times when there was no language, things were very brutal and humans struggled to survive.

If I'm right, then as our children instinctively socialize and identify with a group (as they do in most societies), then that would be when that tribal nature would become a part of their psychology and they may feel suspicion or even fear toward anyone "different".

After that point, then youth may become infused with specific racist tendencies that are learned from parents and peers in their environment. However, as logical and rational adults, we should see the dangers in this and reject that behavior - as most progressives do. Unfortunately, those raised in fearful conservative authoritarian groups usually bypass that phase and become life-long racists.

Just some thoughts to throw your way!......

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Response to KY_EnviroGuy (Reply #7)

Sun May 13, 2018, 08:07 AM

10. your thoughts are always appreciated.

if we jump in the way back machine, certainly a group would be suspicious of an outside group. but range being a factor, this group coming across another group that LOOKED different wouldn't happened often enough to affect our species genetically. i think. lol.

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Response to Kurt V. (Reply #10)

Sun May 13, 2018, 08:24 AM

11. Well, one instructive thing we can look at is...

the still existent tribalism that exists in the Middle East, Northern Africa, and some parts of Europe - and those are peoples very similar in physical appearance.

It is quite an interesting thing to study and helps me to be more accepting of our crazy human condition, LOL....

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Response to KY_EnviroGuy (Reply #11)

Sun May 13, 2018, 09:40 AM

13. Even better, all this has been and is being intensively

studied by scientists and researchers in every discipline from anthropology to neurobiology and beyond, and intensively reported on. Research continues, uncovering new questions all the time.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #13)

Sun May 13, 2018, 10:25 AM

15. Yes, it will be interesting to watch.

I feel there's probably evolutionary explanations for many of the mental aberrations in our populace. For example, psychopathy could have come from an extended period of extremely difficult times where humans had to be extremely brutal to survive - even cannibalistic at times. Our DNA remembers those struggles.

As you imply, there's a lot of secrets still hidden in those tiny strands of DNA in every human, and it surely must be a blast to be involved in that research.

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Response to KY_EnviroGuy (Reply #15)

Sun May 13, 2018, 12:06 PM

20. I think that word racism is somewhat of a loaded word and means differerent things......

to different people. We as humans are also probably the most adaptable species (short of microbes) to ever live on the planet.

I would agree that our DNA has a lot to do with it but it is that same DNA that makes us so adaptable in ways we are learning more about every day.

I think it would be hard to be succinct in any explanation in how and why we are here today with the hundreds of disciplines involved that it took to get us here where we are now.

Then finally getting back to the idea why people with authoritarian views always like to stifle education and the transfer of knowledge.

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Response to nolabels (Reply #20)

Mon May 14, 2018, 09:31 AM

25. Yes, racism and fear of someone outside our group are different issues...

in my thinking. It is amazing how well humans can get along when survival is at stake. It seem we're mostly at one another's throats only after we gain wealth or power.

In order to understand how we got to his point and why we behave the way we do, we would need a time machine to go back and actually experience how life was - say, 100,000 years ago, and then another at say 10,000 years ago, and so on. Our primitive instincts are still very strong, and sometimes work against us in the modern era as greed, avarice and excess fear step in and distort the original purpose of those instincts.

However, archaeology and anthropology experts are working hard to get us the best snapshots they can and I find their work and progress amazing. We're fortunate here at DU to have members that post good articles in the science section on those topics.

LOL, at 70 years old, I've just learned some things about my personality I wish I had even slightly understood at 17. It's been quite a jigsaw puzzle to build and probably will never be complete.....

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Response to KY_EnviroGuy (Reply #25)

Mon May 14, 2018, 05:35 PM

31. There is way to get back there in one sense, try a Paleo Diet

Or maybe even a Keto Diet. Getting rid of all those carbohydrates the corporate drug pushers have pushed on us brings on a whole new attitude it feels to me. I kind of being forced on it myself. I contracted MRSA (a form of antibiotic-resistant bacterial infection). The low carb diet (that pre-agricultural diet of hunter-gatherers) kind of just stops the stuff in its tracks.

Though it's good for a lot of other things besides that, many medical problems today are caused by the high-carb diet. One of the best things I find about this diet is how it calms down your whole life and gets you clear thinking. It works well whether your young or old and the effects are subtle and you can feel how it's working in about three days

There is a movie called "The Magic Pill" on Netflix or Amazon Prime that blew my mind when I saw how well it worked on a sad little autistic girl. I know this post is a little off the subject but if you can understand how a lot of these neuroses are acquired by our screwed up diets it would make sense on the subject.

At Fifty-nine and mostly an introvert, it figures to me knowing too much about oneself can be perilous (but not to worry it probably can never happen)

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Response to Kurt V. (Reply #4)

Sun May 13, 2018, 07:56 AM

8. My daughter, starting at age three, attended a Montessori preschool in a college town

with a wide variety of nationalities and races among professors and students. You guessed it, Never a mention of color or ethnicity. Meeting these kids or their parents for the first time was always a pleasant surprise (in terms of our pride in our daughter). The only clue that anyone might be in any way "different" from her was in, sometimes, unusual names.

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Response to Kurt V. (Reply #4)

Sun May 13, 2018, 09:36 AM

12. You have to be right and wrong. For sure most people

learn to fear drinking orange juice after brushing their teeth and babies so dependably learn to fear strangers that it's considered a normal developmental milestone, though why at that age and without any adverse frightening events?

Researchers now know there are strong genetic components to personality, though it's apparently intensely complex, including how they manifest, and there are lots of important questions still to be answered.

And, of course, we already knew there were strong environmental influences. In fact, I believe I'm environmentally disposed to believe people are born with genetic predispositions. My babies were fascinatingly different people from birth, and that one had to listen to "Philadelphia Freedom" instead of "Bridge over Troubled Water" in the womb has always seemed a very incomplete explanation.



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Response to Hortensis (Reply #12)

Sun May 13, 2018, 11:18 AM

19. Absolutely, there is much more to learn about

our social environment's impact on our behavior. I happen to be in the B.F. Skinner camp. he died before the human genome project was complete. it would have been interesting to hear what he would have made of it.

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Response to Kurt V. (Reply #19)

Sun May 13, 2018, 12:24 PM

21. Yes. I choose to believe that reducing all humanity to biochemical

reactions, triggered by pleasure and pain chemicals, indicates the limits of theorists' comprehension, not of humanity's. That Skinner was mostly right as far as it goes, is pretty much proven. Humans are shaped by biochemical responses to environment, cookies and sticks, some of which have become genetically imprinted as tribal survival traits.

And scientists themselves are pleasurably rewarded by producing theories that gain acceptability with accolades and grants, and punished for failure to.

I'm old enough to remember when many scientists and doctors were claiming that newborns didn't feel pain and even performing surgery without pain control, and to some degree still are. Why I don't know, when any parent or pediatrician who ever directed a diaper pin the wrong direction knew better. (I do suspect that babies make perfect helpless victims is part of it.) But it's a profound illustration of how the personal limitations of some scientists can become accepted mainstream thought that impedes rather than advances understanding.



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Response to Hortensis (Reply #21)

Sun May 13, 2018, 01:13 PM

22. yikes!

i had no idea (or forgot) that doctors believe that.
btw happy mothers day!

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Response to Kurt V. (Reply #22)

Sun May 13, 2018, 01:22 PM

23. That's sweet, thanks! My husband's out right now

transferring a huge pile of mulched chips to garden as a present.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #2)

Sun May 13, 2018, 07:04 AM

5. You'te right Hortensis

The smartest man I ever knew ran a State-wide research institute and had doctorates in economics and sociology.
He contended that he was surprised that humans aren’t more racist. He said that it was a learned self-protection mechanism that, as you explained in your text, became hard-wired into us through evolution and natural selection.
He said that overcoming racism was a triumph of morality and intellectual reasoning over our natural instincts, and that due to intermarriage and the fairly recent ability of large populations to travel from one society to another we are gradually “unlearning” the behavior.

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #5)

Sun May 13, 2018, 09:49 AM

14. Love talk of "triumph of morality and intellectual reasoning."



Yes. Our moral and intellectual advances are as real as our need to understand they are in order to continue to advance eagerly and confidently.

Speaking of environmental factors, what would it do for our nation if our people were mostly discussing our dominant triumphs of morality and intellectual reasoning, rather than flagellating ourselves over our losing, but supposedly intractable evils and failures?

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #2)

Sun May 13, 2018, 10:36 AM

16. That's a great post Hortensis

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2018, 05:55 AM

3. I'll be satisfied with just white supremacy dying off at this point.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2018, 07:59 AM

9. Racism IS dying. It is just that it is excruciating that it is taking centuries to do so.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2018, 10:53 AM

17. What a nasty kid!

At some point, he'll probably be carrying a lethal weapon, instead of a Daisy BB gun. I hope he is arrested, tried, and punished long before that point.

Racism, as expressed by that young person, is a potentially lethal thing.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2018, 11:04 AM

18. The Leon County Sheriff's Department is not filing any charges

Even though the male racist in the video has been identified.

LCSO: No charges for Chiles student seen in viral video

May 10, 2018 Updated May 10, 2018

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (WTXL) - No charges will be filed regarding the viral video of a Chiles High student shooting a BB gun while driving and yelling racial slurs.

According the Leon County Sheriff's Office, investigators determined no crime was committed.

Deputies are now finishing up what’s called an “information report” to document the incident.

WTXL ABC 27 has requested those documents and is waiting to receive them.

Though the incident may have happened in Gadsden County, the Gadsden County Sheriff's Office says they are not investigating.

More, including the video and statement by school officials:
http://www.wtxl.com/news/lcso-no-charges-for-chiles-student-seen-in-viral-video/article_43dafc32-5393-11e8-9a6f-3fb00ea54fd8.html

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Response to csziggy (Reply #18)

Mon May 14, 2018, 10:32 AM

29. Challenges in his personal life made him do it

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2018, 02:16 PM

24. Racism is not dying. We have to intentionally kill it

It won't just die. It perpetuates itself.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Mon May 14, 2018, 09:43 AM

26. I would have learned racism from my father but I didn't

even though he was a poor man from rural Mississippi and we lived in Memphis when I was 4. I can remember playing with black kids and I knew they had different color skin but it had no more meaning to me than different color hair and I never heard any different from my dad. I can remember black women babysitting me and he would address them with "yes ma'am" and "no ma'am" just like any other woman. Granted, I lead a very sheltered life at that age but I was never taught that black people were inferior.
But when we moved to Wisconsin when I started school, to a small city that might have had a couple of black families in town, that's when I learned about racism and it was a shock to me.
At school during recess some white kids were picking on a younger black boy and pushing him around and knocking him down and it suddenly occurred to me that it was because the kid was black. That happened nearly 60 years ago and I remember it distinctly to this day.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Mon May 14, 2018, 09:45 AM

27. never did peps , always been here in the shadows , now borught out in the open by a idiiot prez

inst pointing a loaded weapon out of a car whilst moving a crime in most states?

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Mon May 14, 2018, 09:54 AM

28. I agree. It's not dying...

At least since the 70's, the same 30% of hardcore racists have been in place as they are now. They simply went more underground with their bigotry since it became "politically incorrect" to use the slurs they so prefer. THAT's why they hate what they call "PC."

They're hatred, fueled by fear, has been festering like a boil for decades. It started to seep out more visibly to the general populace when Palin came onto the scene, and Biff ripped the scab off for the pus to flow freely.

Generation after generation is affected. It's amplified now, even in kids who didn't grow up in such an environment, due to the Internet and social media.

We can't assume it's going to die off with the Boomers. It isn't. Not without a lot of work.

I maintain that we can make laws which are obviously important, such as the Civil Rights Act, but until we face the CULTURAL and systemic nature of white supremacy, this cycle will continue.

It's naive to think otherwise, imo. I speak with confidence on this matter because I grew up in a KKK environment and thus became very familiar with racist, bigoted behavior from a very early age. I know racism and how it manifests across spectrum of behavior and, as mentioned, systemically. It's everywhere.

Certainly there has been progress in some areas and I don't mean to negate that, but it's not remotely dying off, even if we comfort ourselves by thinking what we're seeing is simply the last gasp of a dying belief system.





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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Mon May 14, 2018, 10:49 AM

30. It's not dying

The internet threw gasoline on the fire.

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