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Sat May 12, 2018, 09:34 AM

Stop "fanboying" over republicans

I’m all for “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” but we are starting to get carried away.

Yes, I’m fully aware that McCain is old, sick and dying but so are millions that use the ACA. That have less money now and a damaged future due to his tax vote. That made Sarah fucking Pain his VP candidate.

Steve Schmidt is saying the type of things we like about Pence and Trump. Steve Schmidt is still calling himself a conservative republican, he just doesn’t like trump, so what, you can’t throw a stick without hitting at least one person that doesn’t like trump.

At the end of the day, we do ourselves and the future of our country a serious disservice by normalizing ANY republicans. because Schmidt or McCain doesn’t like trump and pence’s particular shade of crazy does not make them any less vile and morally bankrupt an asshole as any other republican, including pence or trump.

the republican perspective is delusional and reckless and antithetical to a happy and prosperous nation

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Arrow 210 replies Author Time Post
Reply Stop "fanboying" over republicans (Original post)
angrychair May 2018 OP
Iggo May 2018 #1
Glorfindel May 2018 #2
Guy Whitey Corngood May 2018 #3
Loki Liesmith May 2018 #4
angrychair May 2018 #9
Crutchez_CuiBono May 2018 #5
angrychair May 2018 #10
Crutchez_CuiBono May 2018 #107
angrychair May 2018 #110
Crutchez_CuiBono May 2018 #112
Exotica May 2018 #6
IluvPitties May 2018 #7
angrychair May 2018 #12
IluvPitties May 2018 #15
Exotica May 2018 #26
IluvPitties May 2018 #47
SCantiGOP May 2018 #133
SylviaD May 2018 #135
Dennis Donovan May 2018 #8
angrychair May 2018 #17
Dennis Donovan May 2018 #113
Tarc May 2018 #141
Dennis Donovan May 2018 #164
Post removed May 2018 #173
Dennis Donovan May 2018 #174
Post removed May 2018 #181
Dennis Donovan May 2018 #187
Dennis Donovan May 2018 #175
angrychair May 2018 #179
Dennis Donovan May 2018 #188
angrychair May 2018 #190
Dennis Donovan May 2018 #191
mercuryblues May 2018 #202
Mr. Ected May 2018 #11
Chemisse May 2018 #58
CrispyQ May 2018 #61
stevenleser May 2018 #140
treestar May 2018 #146
emulatorloo May 2018 #13
JHB May 2018 #111
Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #14
angrychair May 2018 #20
Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #23
infidel621 May 2018 #194
nini May 2018 #16
Bernardo de La Paz May 2018 #24
angrychair May 2018 #27
Bradshaw3 May 2018 #52
angrychair May 2018 #65
JI7 May 2018 #66
angrychair May 2018 #68
JI7 May 2018 #70
angrychair May 2018 #85
JI7 May 2018 #90
angrychair May 2018 #93
JI7 May 2018 #96
angrychair May 2018 #100
JI7 May 2018 #101
angrychair May 2018 #105
JI7 May 2018 #106
Bradshaw3 May 2018 #82
JI7 May 2018 #92
Bradshaw3 May 2018 #95
angrychair May 2018 #180
Bradshaw3 May 2018 #186
angrychair May 2018 #189
Bradshaw3 May 2018 #193
angrychair May 2018 #196
Bradshaw3 May 2018 #203
Honeycombe8 May 2018 #157
angrychair May 2018 #185
Honeycombe8 May 2018 #195
angrychair May 2018 #199
Honeycombe8 May 2018 #200
nini May 2018 #116
Honeycombe8 May 2018 #155
USALiberal May 2018 #18
Tipperary May 2018 #75
Kirk Lover May 2018 #19
DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #21
angrychair May 2018 #28
DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #29
angrychair May 2018 #30
DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #36
JI7 May 2018 #39
DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #42
JI7 May 2018 #48
DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #50
angrychair May 2018 #53
DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #55
angrychair May 2018 #67
JI7 May 2018 #69
angrychair May 2018 #72
JI7 May 2018 #74
angrychair May 2018 #81
JI7 May 2018 #89
Honeycombe8 May 2018 #156
cwydro May 2018 #109
True Blue American May 2018 #168
JI7 May 2018 #40
DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #45
Honeycombe8 May 2018 #153
ooky May 2018 #161
relogic May 2018 #22
Roy Rolling May 2018 #25
JI7 May 2018 #44
EffieBlack May 2018 #123
Oneironaut May 2018 #31
angrychair May 2018 #43
Honeycombe8 May 2018 #154
RandySF May 2018 #32
angrychair May 2018 #51
Honeycombe8 May 2018 #159
cynatnite May 2018 #33
zentrum May 2018 #34
IronLionZion May 2018 #35
JI7 May 2018 #37
orangecrush May 2018 #128
hueymahl May 2018 #38
EffieBlack May 2018 #124
wasupaloopa May 2018 #41
tomp May 2018 #46
JI7 May 2018 #60
tomp May 2018 #150
yardwork May 2018 #49
beachbum bob May 2018 #54
airmid May 2018 #56
Hoyt May 2018 #57
angrychair May 2018 #77
CrispyQ May 2018 #59
misanthrope May 2018 #167
angrychair May 2018 #184
hueymahl May 2018 #205
fountainofyouth May 2018 #62
EffieBlack May 2018 #125
angrychair May 2018 #183
BlancheSplanchnik May 2018 #63
Leith May 2018 #84
BigOleDummy May 2018 #64
Jake Stern May 2018 #71
Cary May 2018 #73
Tipperary May 2018 #76
angrychair May 2018 #83
dawg May 2018 #78
Dennis Donovan May 2018 #117
The Velveteen Ocelot May 2018 #79
angrychair May 2018 #88
Garrett78 May 2018 #80
yonder May 2018 #134
peggysue2 May 2018 #86
Afromania May 2018 #87
angrychair May 2018 #91
EffieBlack May 2018 #94
angrychair May 2018 #97
EffieBlack May 2018 #99
angrychair May 2018 #103
EffieBlack May 2018 #119
DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #121
EffieBlack May 2018 #122
saidsimplesimon May 2018 #98
JI7 May 2018 #102
saidsimplesimon May 2018 #108
Dennis Donovan May 2018 #115
treestar May 2018 #145
True Blue American May 2018 #169
still_one May 2018 #104
Dennis Donovan May 2018 #114
angrychair May 2018 #130
still_one May 2018 #149
mountain grammy May 2018 #118
DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #120
angrychair May 2018 #131
DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #132
angrychair May 2018 #137
DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #142
True Blue American May 2018 #170
meadowlark5 May 2018 #126
SunSeeker May 2018 #166
JNelson6563 May 2018 #127
orangecrush May 2018 #129
nolabels May 2018 #136
VOX May 2018 #139
VOX May 2018 #138
orangecrush May 2018 #143
treestar May 2018 #144
angrychair May 2018 #178
Hamlette May 2018 #147
DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #148
JI7 May 2018 #165
Honeycombe8 May 2018 #151
InAbLuEsTaTe May 2018 #152
DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #158
Honeycombe8 May 2018 #160
griloco May 2018 #162
obnoxiousdrunk May 2018 #163
bucolic_frolic May 2018 #171
UpInArms May 2018 #172
relogic May 2018 #176
aikoaiko May 2018 #177
Tarc May 2018 #182
Lordquinton May 2018 #192
DemocratSinceBirth May 2018 #197
mvd May 2018 #198
LenaBaby61 May 2018 #201
Bettie May 2018 #204
LanternWaste May 2018 #206
angrychair May 2018 #207
Blue_Tires May 2018 #208
angrychair May 2018 #209
Blue_Tires May 2018 #210

Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 09:37 AM

1. Hear, hear.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 09:40 AM

2. Highly recommend.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 09:41 AM

3. To each his/her own but I remember very well what these assclowns have been

doing to this country, and the world really, since Nixon. They created this. People like Drum were perfectly OK with his gang of troglodytes and what they stood for.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 09:42 AM

4. Do what I say.

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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #4)

Sat May 12, 2018, 09:49 AM

9. There is always at least one

It’s an opinion, like you own, it’s not a command or an edict.

Everyone is free to do as they please but I will NEVER kiss some republican’s ass or normalize their behavior or ideals.

When people think republicans are great just ask the tens of thousands of the old, poor and sick that republicans are kicking out of nursing homes in Louisiana soon.

Just look at that “tax cut” McCain voted to pass.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 09:43 AM

5. I agree..

but one man's dying. Why make his last time horrible? We'll have a lot of time to go over JM. I'm no fan, but, I'd hope if my life was slipping away that humans around me would be compassionate. We are the 'go high' party are we not?

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Response to Crutchez_CuiBono (Reply #5)

Sat May 12, 2018, 09:59 AM

10. That man you want to be compassionate to

Made likely his last major vote in his life, likely his last official act as a republican senator, to vote to pass that tax cut bill and all it included.

None of the wonderful superlatives some want to attribute to him are earned or of value.

I wish a dying man no less than he wants for others.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #10)

Sat May 12, 2018, 01:05 PM

107. I understand you.

I TOTALLY agree with what you said. However, as human beings that set the standard for creeps on the right and the rest of the world, I wish him no extra burden nearing the end of his time on earth. His own stupid daughter makes his death all about her. (As if she hasn't lived a charmed life already right?).
Just wish we'd be the ones who really ACT like Jesus even though that's not our balliwick(sp) by and large. The idea being that we are a good and generous country. At some point we want to conquer the nastiness of the rw and times like this are a good time to go high. Nothing is going to change what he did at this point. I DO NOT agree w the positions he's taken but, do unto others...
If we can't act what we desire for other amongst us who haven't lived the American Dream, what good are any of our platitudes we espouse? Everyone dies. I hope people care about, and say kind things to me to allow me to close my eyes the last time and know I did my best. Looking back I bet right now he wishes he'd done differently.
Megan can take a flying leap. She's a malignant version of her dad and the creep husband. She'd be nothing without her Dad.

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Response to Crutchez_CuiBono (Reply #107)

Sat May 12, 2018, 01:15 PM

110. I have no problem

With showing kindness and understanding, I really do not begrudge anyone a peaceful death.

I just believe we should keep in perspective that as a republican, with his votes, has not shown that same kindness to the least and most vulnerable of us all.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #110)

Sat May 12, 2018, 01:38 PM

112. No question about it.

Enumerating all those things over the media just doesn't seem to be the time or place to spike the ball. We are Democrats, politics used to be gentlemanly. It can be again. I hear what your saying. I don't think any Democrat has forgotten his voting record, and Sarah Palin. Omg, Anyhow, Peace.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 09:44 AM

6. It is trans-party gaslighting

 

Most of the anti-Trump Rethugs are horrific by almost every other measure and they are NOT in Congress, so thus will never be called upon to impeach (House) and especially convict and remove (Senate).

Fuck McCain, he always was a RW war monger.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 09:46 AM

7. I believe in redemption and forgiveness.

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Response to IluvPitties (Reply #7)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:03 AM

12. I'm not saying it's impossible

Schmidt just doesn’t like trump and pence, he is still a republican, he call himself a republican and is little different than most republicans in Congress.


McCain made likely his last major vote in his life, likely his last official act as a republican senator, to vote to pass that tax cut bill and all it included.

I wish a dying man no less than he wants for others.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #12)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:09 AM

15. We can't expect McCain to be one of us.

However, he can be an occasional ally.

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Response to IluvPitties (Reply #15)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:40 AM

26. Ally for what, 90 days max till he is dead? He is hated by pro-Trump

 

Rethugs, amd his "ally" part is also just reduced to rhetoric that changes nothing. His life's corpus is anti most everything I stand for. He can sod off overall.

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Response to Exotica (Reply #26)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:04 AM

47. We agree to disagree.

I don't dislike normal Republicans. I just disagree with them. However, whoever opposes Trump I want to be friends with.

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Response to IluvPitties (Reply #47)

Sat May 12, 2018, 07:03 PM

133. Agree

To say that Schmidt and McCain are “no less vile” than Trump and Pence is an absurd comment.
That sort of absolutism is more typical of the other side.

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #133)

Sat May 12, 2018, 07:18 PM

135. Exactly. nt

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 09:49 AM

8. Like it or not, this is still a 2 party system...

The key is to find non-insane Republicans and build relationships with them so effective COMPROMISE can take place. Anything less, and you've become Mitch McConnell.

Unfortunately, non-insane Republicans are an endangered species...

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #8)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:16 AM

17. Sorry, there is no compromise with republicans

They voted to repeal the ACA over 90 times

They held children’s healthcare hostage.

They held a Supreme Court spot vacancy for over a year to stop Democrats from filling it.

In Louisiana they are kicking poor, old, handicapped and sick people off Medicare and out into the street. No place to live, no place to go.

They are ripping apart years of hard work on everything for civil rights to protecting the environment.

All republicans, including McCain, voted for that tax bill.

So, compromise on what!?! Republicans do not compromise. They do nothing that doesn’t make the rich more rich and poor more poor.
Lastly I will add: Compromise is great as long as you are not the one being compromised.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #17)

Sat May 12, 2018, 01:55 PM

113. Funny... that's what they say about us...

The Democratic Party is "far left" and incapable of compromise, despite ample evidence to the contrary.

Be bigger than them.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #113)

Sat May 12, 2018, 08:23 PM

141. People compromise when choosing pizza toppings and dining venues

We do not compromise on issues of racism, LGBT rights, gender equality, and the like.

There is no middle ground to be found with bigots, you just work to get more progressives to the ballot box than they can get the bigots to em.

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Response to Tarc (Reply #141)

Sun May 13, 2018, 12:13 AM

164. Sorry, but that's nonsense...

"My Way or the highway" is the provenance of the repigs, NOT of the Democratic party...

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #164)


Response to Post removed (Reply #173)

Sun May 13, 2018, 07:55 AM

174. If you're unwilling to compromise on anything...

...then you lose every time. Glad I'm not you.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #174)


Response to Post removed (Reply #181)

Sun May 13, 2018, 11:54 AM

187. No, I AM a Democrat...

Been one for 46 years, since the age of 7 when I stuffed envelopes for George McGovern.

Oh, and what makes you think I'm white? That's some racist shit on you part...

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Response to Tarc (Reply #141)

Sun May 13, 2018, 07:58 AM

175. No, you DO compromise on everything...

If you're sooo sure you're RIGHT every time, you probably aren't. Again, that's the provenance of Trump supporters, not MY Democratic Party.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #175)

Sun May 13, 2018, 10:56 AM

179. You compromise on civil rights?

The rights of women to access reproductive healthcare?

Compromise on a light version of “gay conversation therapy”?

On tests to determine if someone can vote at their polling station?

Compromise on healthcare for kids? Maybe only cover a million and let the other million die?

Compromise like the republicans are doing in Louisiana right now? Cutting Medicaid and likely kicking thousands of people in nursing homes and long term care facilities out into the streets and firing tens of thousands of medical professionals.

As I I’ve stated many times:
Compromise is great as long as you are not the one being compromised.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #179)

Sun May 13, 2018, 11:56 AM

188. You compromise on everything..

That's life.

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #188)

Sun May 13, 2018, 12:08 PM

190. Wow...ok

Again:

Compromise is great as long as you are not the one being compromised

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Response to angrychair (Reply #190)

Sun May 13, 2018, 12:12 PM

191. Wow is right...

Look, you're angry in your chair, I get that. Without ANY compromise, you land where we are right now with the repigs. They won't compromise on anything and that's why this country is fucked. You really wanna be like them???

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Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #191)

Sun May 13, 2018, 07:11 PM

202. So what compromise on women's rights are

you willing to make?

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:00 AM

11. In think most of us - all of us? - know where the line is drawn when it comes to respecting

The words of a Republican pundit.

We are Democrats. They are not. The overlap in our Venn diagram is infinitesimal. When we agree, it's fine to point it out. For those of us who wonder how in the hell a Donald Trump can even BE, it's reassuring sometimes to hear the same point made by someone from that side of the aisle.

Doesn't mean we now accept Steve Schmidt's point of view as one of our own, empirically. If, after a tirade against Mike Pence, Schmidt wants to advance a right wing policy cause, each and every one of us would methodically shoot it down.

If you lack that level of discernment, then this OP applies to you. Otherwise, I see no reason that we can't agree on points in common made by a Republican without embracing the individual as one of our own.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Reply #11)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:16 AM

58. I agree. I am happy to acknowledge when a Republican shows both common sense and a conscience.

I wish they were all like that. Then we would really have a two-party system where if the other party won, it would be undesirable, but it wouldn't spell doomsday for poor people, women and minorities, the environment, consumers, the economy, etc.

I am happy to give praise whenever it is due. John McCain is a war monger. He also stands up to say no to torture. I can dislike the former and admire the latter. Few people are all evil. Most of us are just a mix of many things, some good, some bad.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Reply #11)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:28 AM

61. Looks like we're accepting Richard Painter as one of our own. -nt

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Response to Mr. Ected (Reply #11)

Sat May 12, 2018, 07:42 PM

140. Yep, well said. nt

 

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Response to Mr. Ected (Reply #11)

Sat May 12, 2018, 08:41 PM

146. True - just agreeing on one thing

doesn't mean we are loyal followers of his every word.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:08 AM

13. Unrec. If these Republicans put country over party that is a good thing.

We need more Republicans to step up and do so.

None of us here agree with Republican policy, so don’t pretend that we do.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #13)

Sat May 12, 2018, 01:35 PM

111. We need more Republicans to do so, but...

...not the professional conservatives who try to pretend Trump mysteriously came out of nowhere. Who get the vapors on TeeVee that Kremlin Don is in office but won't acknowledge he did so by thumping the very same drums they have in order to gain power and put themselves in a position where they can get what they want by just forming a unyielding phalanx against Democrats.

One of the pro-Trump Republicans is running ads about "Team America vs Team Terrorist". You know what NeverTrumper Rick Wilson used to call that sort of campaign? "My job."

We do need people across the aisle we can work with, but do not let the bad actors off the hook just because they're saying bad things about Trump these days. "Real" conservatives still idealize the Guilded Age and still want a government that is basically a banana republic run by them. Their counterparts are not Democrats, it's outright Maoist's willing to burn everything down to grab all the marbles.

They will knife is in the back the moment they see the chance. As they have done repeatedly.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:09 AM

14. Please, no purity tests. It is sometimes entirely appropriate to applaud a Republican. . . nt

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #14)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:22 AM

20. Not a purity test

It’s about normalization of republicans, any republicans, for any reason. It’s about thinking there is any compromise with a group of people that voted to repeal the ACA 90 times.
That held a USSC seat vacancy for over a year to prevent a vote Obama’s choice.
McCain’s last official vote as a senator was the tax bill and all it included.
Tell me again how it’s a purity test?

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Response to angrychair (Reply #20)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:38 AM

23. Your OP is not clear where you draw the line. That's how.


Your OP seems to wish to outlaw any applause for any Republican on any topic, for fear that it might do some amount of "normalizing".

Yes, we don't like Republican policies, especially hypocritical actions like blocking the Supreme Court seat.

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #23)

Sun May 13, 2018, 05:07 PM

194. That was how I took the post as well.

I may not agree with a large portion of Republican views but not all Republicans are created equal. I can disagree with them but not completely demonize all of them because of a difference of opinion. It's not that black and white. I have conservative friends and family, I don't like them demonizing all Democrats because of a difference of opinion and I hate either side playing 'politics' and putting party above country.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:11 AM

16. Common ground will be what saves this country

We need the McCains and Schmidts to bring the 'moderates' along here. While i dont agree with a lot of their politics they have the balls to be vocal about this trump nightnare and this war isnt going to be won without it. We're never going to enact any of our polocies until this nightmare chapter in our history is over. So, yes the enemy of my enemy will be my friend during this battle. The future of our democracy depends on it.

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Response to nini (Reply #16)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:39 AM

24. Yes. Hard core RepubliCONs wish to polarize the country even more. Polarization is not healthy. . nt

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Response to nini (Reply #16)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:40 AM

27. Really?

compromise with a group of people that voted to repeal the ACA 90 times.
That held a USSC seat vacancy for over a year to prevent a vote on Obama’s choice.
That held children’s healthcare hostage?
Republicans that willfully lied to start a war with Iraq?
That spent years holding up hundreds of judge nominees from even getting a vote?
Republicans that insisted that Obama was not a US citizen and called him all kinds of nasty and racist things?
That is voting to kick tens of thousands of poor and sick people out of nursing homes and into the streets in Louisiana.
McCain’s last official vote as a senator was the tax bill and all it included.

This is just a small snapshot of who republicans are and what they do.

What possible middle ground is there to people more than willing to kick old people out of nursing homes?

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Response to angrychair (Reply #27)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:09 AM

52. You have conflated Schmidt et al with the trumpistas and their actions

All repubs are not the same and do not universally support every item you list. Clearly they don't as Schmidt and Navarro and many others who you are tarring with this broad brush have railed against the attacks on Obama and not following traditional rules of procedure on things like Senate judicial votes.

I can think of few if any Dems who have bene as brilliant in their takedowns of this brand of repub politics as Schmidt and Navarro.

Compromise is what got the voting rights act passed, the EPA created by a repub and other accomplishments over the years.

You've also written about repealing the ACA 90 times about 90 times. BTW, remember McCain's vote on that?

Anger is understandable but facts and strategy in fighting the good fight are what counts in gettign good deeds done.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #52)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:34 AM

65. Schmidt gave us Sarah Palin

Schmidt still calls himself a conservative republican.

Knowing all Schmidt knew about Palin, after the election was over, said this:
I believe, had she not been on the ticket, our margin of defeat would've been greater than it would've been otherwise," Schmidt said


And spent his career carrying out the commands of Dick Cheney and Carl Rove
Schmidt joined the Bush administration as a Deputy Assistant to the President and Counselor to Vice President Dick Cheney. In 2004, he was a member of the senior strategic planning group, led by White House adviser Karl Rove, that ran President George W. Bush's re-election campaign; Schmidt oversaw the reelection "war room".[13] In 2005 and 2006, he was the White House strategist responsible for the U.S. Supreme Court nominations of Samuel Alito[19] and Chief Justice John Roberts.[13]


I write about McCain’s ACA votes to make the point that he happily voted to destroy healthcare far more than voting to protect it.

No matter what they say, these people are not our friends nor are they here to help. Their core beliefs are no different than any other republican, especially trump and pence.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #65)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:37 AM

66. He didn't know what palin was then and Obama defeated that ticket

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Response to JI7 (Reply #66)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:41 AM

68. Yes, he did know she was incompetent

He did know she was a liar.

He did know she was unhinged.

He pushed forward anyway and he clearly stated in my included quote that was months after the election in which she personally lied anout and verbally assaulted Obama, that she was good for their campaign.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/revelations-from-the-campaign/

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Response to angrychair (Reply #68)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:45 AM

70. After she was picked. But they never vetted her.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #70)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:19 PM

85. Agreed

Doesn’t change the fact that he supported her as a candidate and still thought she was a positive influence on the campaign despite being a liar and a nut job and completely unqualified.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #85)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:23 PM

90. And doesn't changethe fact he is right about everything he says about Trump

Who actually is in office right now.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #90)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:29 PM

93. I'm not disagreeing with his statements about trump

I take exception with people trying to rewrite history or turn Schmidt into something he is not.
He learned his craft at the side of Cheney and Rove. He brought us Palin.

His entire career has been to put people like that into office. To give them power that don’t respect or deserve.

His actions speak louder than his words.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #93)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:32 PM

96. Nobody is rewriting history. Nobody is saying mccain should have beaten Obama

People are agreeing with the attacks on trump and some seem to have a problem with trump being attacked .

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Response to JI7 (Reply #96)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:42 PM

100. I have a problem

With people that think that ANY republican attack on trump is altruistic or meant to help Democrats.

Trump has not said or done a damn thing that republicans haven’t said or done themselves, including Schmidt or McCain.
It’s just that republicans, up to this point, have done it in the shadows and spoken it in private conversations behind closed doors.

My point is this: Let no one be fooled that every square ugly inch of trump is republican and no republican is any different.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #100)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:48 PM

101. Trump had said and done far worse than mccain and schmidt

And trump is actually in office as president.

Nobody is being fooled. As i showed, Biden and other Democrats defeated mccain during the 2008 election even if they liked him and viewed him far better than how trump is seen.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #101)

Sat May 12, 2018, 01:01 PM

105. With all due respect

I disagree.
Again, Schmidt is a Cheney and Rove disciple. His entire career has been to empower and embolden people like trump.

2008 was 11 years ago. Most do not remember nor have a real perspective of what it was even like before Obama. A 30 yr old today was 17 when they first heard Obama’s name. Many don’t remember what the Bush Administration was like. I do.
I am friends with adults that were not even born when Reagan was president.

I have a very long memory and I know exactly who republicans are and what they want to do.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #105)

Sat May 12, 2018, 01:03 PM

106. And Biden and Obama loved and liked Mccain in 2008 also

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Response to angrychair (Reply #65)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:14 PM

82. You are completely wrong

The statement about their core principles being no different than trump is totally ignorant of what they have said over and over. Their "core" principles are what seperates them from the trumpsters. If you don't know that then you have not read or heard anything they've said. I'm well aware of their past but that does not change the fact that they are standing on the right sid eof history now whe we need a smany people opposed to this attempted ob takeover of our country as we can get.

Nothing you have posted shows that people like Schmidt and Navarro are exactly the same as trumpsters. You obviously are unaware of Schmidt's opposition to Palen during and after the campaign. Do a little research; the results may conflict with your broad brush painting but to portray Schmidt as her supporter becasue of one quote that was probably in fact true as to her effect doesn't prove your point. The facts are not on your side on that one either.

And repeating things like "they are not our friends" over and over does not justify your broad brush strokes. Yes they are conservative repubs but they are standing up for the rule of law against a tide of fascism in the repub party. I will continue to applaud them for that no matter what orders you feel like dishing out to people on here or snarky commetns about "fanboys". You may or may not be aware of Reagan but liberal Democrats like Tip O'Neill worked with him to get things done.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #82)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:26 PM

92. In fact it normalizes Trump to say there is no difference.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #92)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:31 PM

95. Good point

Not to mention the fact that we need sane repubs in that party for our democracy to function. This tendency to demonize everyone who doesn't agree with us on everything is counterproductive. There are enough out there who are demons to contend with. If we truly want to get rid of trumpism we are going to need at least a few from the other side in order to do it. Then we can go back to fighting them on things we don't agree on and which they are wrong about.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #82)

Sun May 13, 2018, 11:08 AM

180. Sorry, you are wrong about Schmidt

He did think Palin was a benefit to McCain’s ticket and said so, AFTER the election:

I believe, had she not been on the ticket, our margin of defeat would've been greater than it would've been otherwise," Schmidt said


Despite Palin’s ignorance, lying and racist attacks on Obama, he continued throughout the campaign to help her and McCain win and enable her to be a heartbeat away from being president.

Most importantly, he was a disciple of Cheney and Rove and worked his entire career to empower and enable people like Palin, Cheney and Rove.
Now, because trump says out loud and in public, things his former masters only said behind closed doors, we should think he is better?!?

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Response to angrychair (Reply #180)

Sun May 13, 2018, 11:42 AM

186. Repeating your falsehoods doesn't make them true

I answered that in my other reply. What he said was TRUE - she did help the campaign not lose by such a wide margin. If you don't know the ways he opposed her I suggest you read Game Change, watch the movie or read any of the many other accoutns of the campaign which show you are wrong. Of course he campaigned for McCain - he was their campaign manager.

Your assertion that he and Navarro and others who have stood up against trumpism are the same as the true trumpsters is just flat out wrong. I've shown the reasons why and you are just repeating the same assertions that don't refute anything I've said. It just shows your lack of rational arguments on your side. Yes he is better than them and so is Navarro and Nicolle Wallace, etc.

I gave the reasons why, which are pretty obvious to anyone except those who see people as black and white and think they themselves are pure. You choose to ignore them and just repeat the same things and tar with a broad brush. You might try reading more and understand more. We are in a war for our democracy and sometimes wars requires being on the side of those we generally oppose. These repubs like Schmidt and Navarro have chosen to be on the side of decency and the law and we should appreciate that - not act like petty ideologues.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #186)

Sun May 13, 2018, 11:57 AM

189. You miss the point completely

The point I’m making is not to hate anyone but to keep perspective and context when these people speak.
He is the former spokesperson for the NRCC and was a senior member of Rove strategic planning group. No student of Cheney and Rove is doing anything without a self-serving or party-serving motive.

It’s great that he is speaking out againt trump but he is a republican to his core and no republican does anything that isn’t a direct benefit to them.
Sorry, I’m never going to bow and grovel at the feet of any republican.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #189)

Sun May 13, 2018, 03:37 PM

193. Didn't miss your "point"

I showed why it is wrong to claim as you have - go back and look at your posts - that there is no difference between trump and trumpsters and people like Schmidt. That is completely wrong. I'm not the one who needs to keep a perspective. That is you when you lump them all together.

And who asked you to bow and grovel? That's as ridiculous as calling people who appreciate their stances as "fanboys" as you have.

I know all about Cheney and Rove and to claim that Schmidt is operating out of party-serving motives to take on trump really shows a lack of knowledge. The repubs have turned their party over to trump and Schmidt as a political consultant has no doubt hurt his business. The only way he is serving his party is by trhing to change its direction away from thre hate. For that I applaud him.

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Response to Bradshaw3 (Reply #193)

Sun May 13, 2018, 05:33 PM

196. Fine

Look, people can like and do what they want. If people want to grovel and kiss a Rove acolyte’s feet I am nobody so what does it matter what I say.

That some think Schmidt or McCain or ANY republican are the good guys says a lot more about our future than trump.

You win, I concede the floor.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #196)

Sun May 13, 2018, 10:57 PM

203. Deceiving to try and prove a specious "point" is worse than groveling

No one groveled to these repubs - that was just a way to deflect from the fact your "point" was ludicrous from any rational viewpoint. As is the statement about "good guys". As I wrote, few people fall in the category of all good or bad - dump certainly does and many people who support him do whne it comes to bad. Schmidt, Navarro and Wallce are certainly not all bad. Not that it would make a difference but Navarro and Wallace voted for Clinton. But it's easier to dismiss facts that like that and make personal attacks about supposed grovelling. That says a lot.

The fact that some here need to paint the world in broad strokes of all good guys and all bad guys just shows they are doing exactly what is done each night on Faux News. That is really scary for the future of our democracy.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #65)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:24 PM

157. His political views doesn't mean he can't be friends w/a Democrat. He IS friends

with Democrats.

Take a cue from the politicians, who make friends across the aisle. Understand the difference between disagreements over policies and ideology, and the person. Two reasonable people can have different opinions, and both people be good people.

And that's the truth.

When you speak of a Republican or a Democrat, of COURSE they voted or pushed for things for their party, or toted the party line. That's WHY they belong to that party. Has nothing to do with whether they are good people.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #157)

Sun May 13, 2018, 11:41 AM

185. On this I have to completely disagree

These are NOT just votes. Your politics are not just “politics”. They are a reflection of who you are as a person.

What is important to you.

What drives you.

How you see the world and how the world sees you.

Human rights is just an opinion? A party line vote?

A women’s RIGHT to healthcare is just an opinion? A party line vote?

An gay couple’s RIGHT to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness is an opinion? A party line vote?

The Voting Rights Act is an opinion? A party line vote?

How we treat Immigration, legal or illegal, is an opinion? A party line vote?

How you feel about human rights, the environment and the type of government you want and how they should spend your money are more than “politics”. It goes to the very core of who you are as a person and how you see the world. It’s far more than a simple opinion or party line vote.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #185)

Sun May 13, 2018, 05:25 PM

195. Fact: Republicans and Democrats ARE friends.

You won't be friends with them, and that is your choice. But we don't want to start avoiding facts like you know who. The two party members ARE friends...many of them.

If you remember Reagan & Tip O'Neill...a strong Repub and a strong Democratic Speaker of the House....friends.

McCain & Biden - friends for years.

And other are others.

You say "human rights." They believe in human rights. But how you define it may be differently from them, and vice versa.

Reasonable people can differ on issues.

I think McCain is a good person and a hero. I have Republicans in my family. They are good people in certain respects.

If you decide to be enemies with everyone who isn't in lock step with every belief and viewpoint of yours, you will be an island.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #195)

Sun May 13, 2018, 05:52 PM

199. Respectfully, I disagree

You said:
You say "human rights." They believe in human rights. But how you define it may be differently from them, and vice versa


They believe in human rights for white Christians, not for gays, women or people of color.
THAT IS NOT AN OPINION. it is literally their party planks.

Republicans fight to prevent gays from having rights, of any kind, daily.
They fight to prevent women from having access to reproductive healthcare daily.

They fight to trash and restrict the Voting Rights Act and fair and reasonable access to voting, daily.

This is just a very brief list of examples of a very long list of items that are are a daily and unrelenting effort by republicans to crush the will and spirit of this country to reshape it in their image.

These items are ARE NOT a difference of opinion. There is no shading of human rights. It’s literally black and white, yes or no, on or off.

You think it’s ok to tell a women what access and when she can have to her healthcare?

To tell two men that they can’t get married because of your personal belief in an Iron Age fairytale?

I have republican family and friends too. I’m respectful and polite but we have nothing in common and their racism, misogyny and bigotry is not something I’m willing to overlook or make excuses for.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #199)

Sun May 13, 2018, 06:34 PM

200. You can't disagree with a fact. You can't choose your own facts.

Nothing you said refutes that fact that Repubs & Dems ARE friends. Let's first agree that we will recognize facts.

Your choice is different. That's fine, for you. But the reality is still that others choose to accept differences of opinion in their friends.

McCain & Biden have been friends for years.

Obama has Republican friends.

The Clintons have been friends with the entire Bush family for years and other Republicans

Reagan and Tip O'Neill were friends.

Obama, the Clintons, the Bushes, Repub Senator Tom Coburn, and others accept that their friends have different policies, ideology, viewpoints.

Millions of Americans have both Republicans and Democrats in their families. They still love each other.

Your choice is different. But that doesn't change the reality that for millions, their choice is different from yours.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #27)

Sat May 12, 2018, 02:44 PM

116. Where did I say to compromise on our issues?

I'm talking about taking out a common enemy here. If they are willing to say some truths about 455, Pence etc.. we need to help their voices be heard.

You don't need to explain republicans to me. Move along.

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Response to nini (Reply #16)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:16 PM

155. +1. In the old days, Repub & Dem politicians were friends, went to lunch together.

Younger people have grown up seeing only the polarization that developed in recent decades.

There will be differences of opinion, even within a party. That's no reason to disregard the decency of the person or the things you have in common.

I will NOT listen to anyone who tells me to hate someone, when I can see the person is a good person.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:16 AM

18. I complement GOPers when they oppose the GOP stance!!! nt

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Response to USALiberal (Reply #18)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:00 PM

75. Spelled compliment wrong.

But good for you.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:16 AM

19. I'll do whatever the damn I hell please.

 

If I agree with somebody I agree with them and I don't care if they are black white or a REPUBLICAN.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:27 AM

21. Sen John McCain saves Obamacare votes NO on GOP Health care #SkinnyRepeal

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #21)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:43 AM

28. His last official vote as a senator

Was to vote for the tax bill and all it included.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #28)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:46 AM

29. "He's dying anyway."

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #29)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:53 AM

30. Not what I said

To be clear, there are lots of people dying. How many times did he vote to repeal the ACA before that last vote?
How many people will die or suffer due to the tax bill and all it included, he voted to pass?

I wish him no personal ill will or harm but I’m not going to excuse his votes or actions, as recent as weeks ago, just because he is sick.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #30)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:57 AM

36. I'm too busy battling real monsters like Trump and his current enablers to trash McCain.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #36)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:00 AM

39. Yup, not sure why anyone would have a peoplei problem with attacks on trump

And trump supporters.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #39)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:02 AM

42. I have to choose my battles. Battling John McCain and Steve Schmidt aren't battles worth fighting.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #42)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:04 AM

48. Exactly. And i have no problem battling them during the right occasions

Such as the 2008 elections.

But right now they are not the enemy. And i welcome all who want to go after trump.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #48)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:06 AM

50. I called him McInsane during the 08 elections. That was then. This is now.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #36)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:10 AM

53. Not saying anyone should trash him

But I think we should keep things in perspective when we load praise on people that have shown by their actions and deeds to be little different than people like trump in the big picture.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #53)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:12 AM

55. If McCain was such a bad guy why did Joe Biden visit him in his time of need ?

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #55)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:39 AM

67. Because of the connection to his son's disease

Both McCain and Beau Biden have/had the same form of cancer.
Joe sees that connection and is drawn to it. Nothing wrong with that.

Doesn’t change who McCain is inside or wash away the votes he willingly and happily made.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #67)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:42 AM

69. Joe Biden Loved Mccain long before his own son had cancer

He Loved Mccain in 2008 also when he was on the Obama ticket running to defeat MCain in the election.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #69)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:54 AM

72. Maybe so, I can't speak to that

I am sure it’s possible. Joe is a kind and loving man. Would not be out of character.

That said, doesn’t mean I have to excuse McCain’s voting record, as recently as a couple months ago or the things he has said.

It’s great we have nice, kind and friendly people but it should be the job of at least some of us to remind the others that that ex- you’re falling for again was a dirty lying nut job and hasn’t changed.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #72)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:58 AM

74. Joe Biden had no Problem Defeating the Mccain ticket in 2008

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Response to JI7 (Reply #74)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:13 PM

81. Granted

But that was a lifetime ago politically.

I also don’t agree with the normalization of bad people.

It’s creates these intellectual dichotomies of being for and against the same people.

It’s literally a Lucy and Charlie Brown football analogy: they will do the right thing THIS TIME. They don’t. We rinse. Repeat.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #81)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:22 PM

89. Not really. It was only 10 years ago. And Biden isn't claiming mccain is right on all the issues

It's why we have elections.

I'm glad Biden is nothing like Trump and being limited in how they view other people.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #67)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:20 PM

156. They've been friends for years. The Clintons are friends w/the Bushes. Reagan & Speaker Tip O'Neill

were friends & went to lunch together. O'Neill was a big Democrat.

This hating on people of the opposing party is ridiculous. Don't listen to that talk. Look at the person, oppose his views, but don't throw out the baby with the bath water.



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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #55)

Sat May 12, 2018, 01:09 PM

109. Because a lot of prominent Dems are way more mature

than some we have here.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #53)

Sun May 13, 2018, 05:27 AM

168. No one I read

Is loading praise on Schmidt, Will, or any of the others.

We are just glad they are telling the truth about Trump and what their party has become.

I will gladly lambast them when they are wrong.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #28)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:01 AM

40. He is republican. Nobody is claiming mccain is a liberal

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Response to JI7 (Reply #40)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:03 AM

45. Yeah, cutting taxes regardless of its impact is like an inherited defect with those guys.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #21)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:08 PM

153. That was really one for the history books. That's almost never done by any of them.



He's a Republican, but a decent person, a good person. He just has a different political ideology.

In the old days, the politicians of the two parties would go to lunch together, they'd golf. They could be friends.

You don't have to hate your opponent. It depends on the person.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #21)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:29 PM

161. I'm grateful for that vote. That was a horrible piece of legislation.

IIRC it included a 25% cut to Medicaid among its many horrors. Makes me think of other states that would start joining Louisiana frightening seniors and disabled with kicking them out of nursing homes. Not to mention the big loss of Obamacare subsidies that would make health insurance unaffordable for lots more people.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:28 AM

22. Common Ground-Too Little Too Late

These so called pundits or the come-to-Jesus enlightened, somewhat critics of Trump are not allies. They might be embraced as such by ethically-principled voters here and elsewhere, if indeed all these years since Reagan they proclaimed their repub positions as abhorrent then as they are clear
ly now.
No? They (particularly those with the corporate-media-entitled platform). No, not a peep.

Those on the air speaking their false wisdom are well-paid cowards without a soul.

I am not impressed or fooled. It’s important to remember-repub worldview requires the humanists, skeptics and freethinkers to always yield to their insanity and hypocrisy.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:39 AM

25. Not a fanboy

Schmidt and other Republicans who stand on principle deserve respect. Calling those who endorse their honesty "fanboys" is using the Republican Party playbook to discredit them.

As for me, I'm not gonna do the Republicans dirty work for them. Nobody on DU should either. Being a Republican is a choice, not something people are born with. I support people's principled positions, and reject hypocrites and right-wing ideologues by their actions.

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Response to Roy Rolling (Reply #25)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:02 AM

44. Exactly, these things come off as wanting to attack Trump critics

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Response to JI7 (Reply #44)

Sat May 12, 2018, 05:03 PM

123. We're supposed to "reach out" to Trump supporters and be careful never ever ever to anger them

But God forbid we show an inkling of human kindness to a man who is dying of brain cancer.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:54 AM

31. At this point, I would settle with adversaries like McCain over nutjobs like that ex-con that was

running, or Trump. If and when Republicans win, I would rather they not be tea party lunatics. Of course, I would prefer we beat all Republicans, but it doesn’t always work that way.

I’d rather have “I hate abortion but won’t do anything about it” Republicans challenging us than “Any woman who gets an abortion should be shot immediately! I also hate all black and LGBT people, and want a Christian theocracy!” Republicans. If a Republican absolutely had to win, I’d rather it be McCain than Don Blankenship, for example.

I never thought I’d yearn for “sane Republicans” in government in case we lose.

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Response to Oneironaut (Reply #31)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:02 AM

43. McCain voted to repeal the ACA dozens of times

His last vote in the senate was to vote for the tax cut bill.

I could write for hours about the votes of republicans and what they stand for and how they have treated Democrats. Why should I have to remind fellow Democrats? How can memories be so short.

Blankenship or trump or pence are very low bars and no matter what favorable light people cast McCain or Schmidt in, history and voting records show us they are little different than them.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #43)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:11 PM

154. Of course. He's a Republican. Doesn't mean you have to hate him. He's a good person.

He's an honest person (for a politician), and a good person, as far as I can tell. He is a war hero, and his circumstances as a tortured POW speaks of his bravery. He refused to be released earlier than the other prisoners, which speaks to his humility, bravery, and decency.

I refuse to hate such a person. I disagree with his ideology, though.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:54 AM

32. I can still repect McCain as a human being

and someone who spent seven years in the hole enduring what most Americans can only imagine.

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Response to RandySF (Reply #32)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:06 AM

51. I don't hate him or wish him ill

I am just not willing to paint ANY republican in a positive light that voted to repeal the ACA dozens of times.

That just a couple months ago voted for a tax bill that will cripple poor and middle class families and destroy our future economy.

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Response to RandySF (Reply #32)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:27 PM

159. I do. And no one is going to tell me to hate a person because he's a Republican.

Two people can have different ideologies and policies, and both still be good people.

I recognize the good in a person, regardless of political party. I don't blindly follow "instructions," esp instructions that lead to hating on people. What a waste...to dislike someone, when he's otherwise a likable, good person.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:56 AM

33. We should encourage anyone (no matter the party) to speak truth to power...

There will always be differences, but I'm not going to ignore those that speak out against the criminals.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:57 AM

34. Spot on.

Too little too late. They helped build this monster. And it didn't just start with Trump. They supported Bush.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:57 AM

35. I support dividing Republicans and turning them against their own party

so I'm all for encouraging McCain's supporters in the GOP to turn against Trump's supporters for being just plain evil to a dying elderly veteran.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:57 AM

37. Defending a dying man and agreeing with attacks on trump are not fan boying

And it would be better if mccain and schmidt were the norm on the republican side.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #37)

Sat May 12, 2018, 06:06 PM

128. THIS!!!

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:59 AM

38. It is not black and white

McCain is not all bad, just like Obama is not all good.

Having a nuanced, sophisticated view of the world and world of politics is a good thing. Retreating to our holier than thou positions is the stuff of tyrants.

Anyone should be applauded for the good they do, just like anyone should be criticized for the bad. If you don’t agree with that, then I feel sorry for you.

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Response to hueymahl (Reply #38)

Sat May 12, 2018, 05:04 PM

124. That"s how adults approach politics

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:01 AM

41. One thing I like about this era is that

we are hearing from people we never heard from before and a lot of what they say makes sense.

So I say forget all the tribalism and those who are working together will make the future what it should be.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:03 AM

46. tell that to the obamas...

 

...cozying up to the bush family, helping to rehabilitate war criminal W, along with the media.

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Response to tomp (Reply #46)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:25 AM

60. Bush is no longer in office. The Obamas have no problem defeating republicans

They like such as mccain in 2008.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #60)

Sat May 12, 2018, 09:50 PM

150. Ok...now in english. nt

 

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:04 AM

49. Great post. I agree!

The point is that the Republican Party's goals and values are WRONG for this country. It is morally, economically, and logically wrong to give control of our country's resources to a tiny fraction of the population.

It is a slave economy, sustained by systematically devaluing anybody other than wealthy Christian white males. The Republican Party has adopted the economic model and values of the slave-owning antebellum south. They have become what they fought and then colonized.

We bond with these people at our peril.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:11 AM

54. You are missing the point....we need to encourage these same

Republicans to speak up and be critical....because the enemy of enemy is our friend. Breeding disention in the GOP must be supported 100%

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:13 AM

56. Thank you. I thought I was alone in this sentiment.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:15 AM

57. If there is such a thing, don't have a big problem with reasonable GOPers who

are NOT — racists/bigots, against the poor, against healthcare, for war unless unavoidable, etc. Again, not sure there is such a thing nowadays.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #57)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:04 PM

77. McCain is not that person

McCain voted to repeal the ACA ~90 times and voted to “save” it once.

He voted for a tax bill, just a couple months ago, that will wreak the economy and take more money from the poor and middle class.

Schmidt is a disciple of Cheney and Rove.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:23 AM

59. A career republican is running as a democrat for Al Franken's seat.

The dem party has shifted far enough to the right that old time republicans are comfortable running as dems.

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #59)

Sun May 13, 2018, 04:33 AM

167. This is the most salient point in this lengthy thread

What used to be Rockefeller Republicans have become comfortable in the Democratic Party since the New Democrats ascended decades ago, changed more by the Reagan Revolution than many care to admit. While the Dixiecrats made the migration to the GOP, the party's perspective has drifted rightward to the point that policies once considered a natural continuation of the New Deal and Great Society are easily labeled as nearly on a par with Marxism.

That is why as the nation's political center has moved to the right despite a few token conciliations to social progressivism, the right-wing lunatics who used to be considered beyond the pale for the GOP now run that party.

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Response to misanthrope (Reply #167)

Sun May 13, 2018, 11:27 AM

184. I humbly bow to your elegant prose

you have stated my broader intention and made the point I have been trying to say that is perfect in tone and pitch.

Very well said.

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Response to misanthrope (Reply #167)

Tue May 15, 2018, 01:13 PM

205. Great Post

Should be required reading.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:29 AM

62. So the only people worthy of respect

Are people who agree with you on all policy issues? I think there's something very dangerous about that way of thinking, and it runs counter to the spirit of James Madison's idea of democratic pluralism.

John McCain has stuck his neck out for this country a number of times when few else did, even setting aside his military service. He voted against the Bush tax cut in 2001. He has consistently been the loudest Republican voice on immigration reform -- even in 2007, ahead of the Republican presidential primaries, when it would have been politically safer to run from it. He has repeatedly, and to his dying day, used his POW experience to be a moral voice on torture. Hey, while we're at it, remember McCain–Feingold? Remember how he consistently refused to indulge in the conspiracy theories surrounding Barack Obama when he ran against him?

There needs to be a space for respect for a figure like this. Otherwise the republic is doomed to fracture.

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Response to fountainofyouth (Reply #62)

Sat May 12, 2018, 05:06 PM

125. Yes

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Response to fountainofyouth (Reply #62)

Sun May 13, 2018, 11:21 AM

183. You are cherry picking

He supports trump and voted in his favor 83% of the time:
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/john-mccain/

Talk about taxes?!?? He made what he likely knew was his last vote in the senate to vote for trump’s tax bill.
A bill that will cripple the poor and middle class and decimate our economy for decades to come.

No, I’m not saying he is a horrible human being but never forget he is a republican first.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:30 AM

63. That's right. Applaud the specific action, but

Don’t lose sight of the policies and past behavior

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Response to BlancheSplanchnik (Reply #63)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:18 PM

84. Exactly What I Was Going to Post

Except you said it more nicely.

I've said similar things more than once. Here is one example. Here is another.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:31 AM

64. While I find

the overwhelming majority, if not all, of Mr. McCain's political views repugnant I draw the line at personal attacks and disrespect. Like him or not, he IS a true Hero. I may be a bit clouded being a fellow veteran but you CANNOT take that away from him. Disagree politically, yes indeed (something he would SUPPORT btw), try to belittle him personally as a man and we have a problem. I find the attacks on Mr. McCain petty and in poor taste. But that's me.


Yes, there are a few nonfascist repuglicans and we need to at LEAST TRY to draw them in a little closer to us.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:53 AM

71. Sometimes to defeat a common enemy one must ally with people you might otherwise loathe

Whether you approve or not is immaterial.

We allied with a nation whose government slaughtered tens of millions of it's own citizens through deliberate starvation, executions and forced labor. They killed millions more outside their borders in places like Katyn Forest.

Yet without them there's a great chance the Nazis would have won World War II.



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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:55 AM

73. I find myself conflicted

We need a loyal opposition. Is that Schmidt, McCain, Frum, Wilson, Krystol,...? Bush?

I don't know but hey they're better than the status quo. Aren't they?

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:02 PM

76. Wow.

Yep, he is dying anyway.

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Response to Tipperary (Reply #76)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:16 PM

83. As I've said, lots of people are dying

That didn’t stop his past ACA votes. Didn’t stop his vote on the tax bill.

The fair criticism of someone and their voting record is not the same as wishing them harm.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:06 PM

78. But Nicolle Wallace is so dreamy!

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Response to dawg (Reply #78)

Sat May 12, 2018, 02:57 PM

117. She has proven to be a decent human being...

...misguided in the past, but her present decency speaks volumes.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:07 PM

79. I can appreciate a righteous rant without "fanboying."

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #79)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:22 PM

88. I agree

I’m just helping keep things in perspective. These people are not our friends and they are not good people and their actions and votes are who brought trump and his followers to power.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:12 PM

80. Even the most tolerable Republicans are horrific. Trump policies are, for the most part, GOP SOP.

As I recently wrote:

For all the talk about not normalizing Trump, we need to recognize that most of the policies Trump promotes are GOP SOP (standard operating procedure).

50 years of Southern Strategy/dog whistling, race-based gerrymandering and voter suppression, a racist "Drug War," xenophobia, a highly effective "liberal media" narrative, an all-out assault on feminism, anti-intellectualism and attacking public education, jingoism, denying science or getting in bed with those who do, off-the-charts hypocrisy and actively undermining trust in government (via procedural war) has led to this moment. The GOP is Dr. Frankenstein and Trump is their monster.

So, to all of the Republicans who write articles or appear on TV to express their outrage over Trump, look at the blood on your hands. Take responsibility. What, you're bothered (or even surprised) by the influence Putin's Russia is having on Trump and Congressional Republicans? That's a bridge too far? Guess what, Putin's goal of undermining the US government (or the trust in said government) has also been your goal. So, congrats, I guess.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #80)

Sat May 12, 2018, 07:09 PM

134. +1.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:19 PM

86. Sorry, but I don't think it's fanboying to expect . . .

common decency in reference to John McCain. We can disagree with his policies and past voting record but he also fought for the country and spent years as a POW. That should mean something to all of us. We don't need to praise him to the heavens but basic respect for his service is not that much to ask.

As for making thoughtless comments about the dying? Petty and cruel and very Trumpian.

As for Steve Schmidt? Yes, he is a former conservative Republican. But they don't exist anymore except through lip service, and Schmidt has been an outspoken Anti-Trumper since before the bogus 2016 election. We needn't rewrite history to embrace those who are Never-Trumpers but we'd be foolish, even suicidal to not welcome their energy in the moment because the country itself is in serious peril.

The true disservice is not recognizing the extraordinary danger we're in as a country, a Republic, a people. This is an All Hands On Deck moment for Democrats, Republicans and Independents alike and the only requirement is ridding ourselves of the criminal network that's trying to swallow us whole. Cleaning out the nests of vipers from our body politic is the first order of business. We'll have plenty of time to retrench into our partisan foxholes after the real battle has been won. But until then, we should take any help we can get. Because if we lose? Our political affiliations and philosophies won't mean squat.

And that's not a future I can embrace.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:19 PM

87. I don't think people are fanboying so much asfeeling slight relief that "not all" of the republicans

are batshit insane. However, no matter how much they rail against trump now. These are the same people that were perfectly ok with what the gop did right up until trump took a neon yellow highlighter to what these people have been about the entire time.They aren't on our side at all. They just want trump to stfu so that they can get back to their dirty work under the cover of day.

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Response to Afromania (Reply #87)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:24 PM

91. Could not agree more

Well said!

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:29 PM

94. Being kind is not "fanboying." Showing empathy for a human being suffering a likley painful death

isn’t “normalizing” a political party or philosophy.

It’s simple decency.

I am not going to fight them by becoming them. If you think that makes me a wimp or a traitor to some cause, that’s not my problem.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #94)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:34 PM

97. We are not in disagreement

I’m not going to ignore or excuse his votes and actions either.
It also isn’t some distant past actions. While sick and likely knowingly dying, he voted for a tax bill that will cause lasting harm to millions of innocent people.

I don’t hate the man or wish him harm but I’m not giving him a pass on votes either.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #97)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:42 PM

99. I'm not giving a pass on his record, either

But I don’t think that means that every kind word said about him must be counter-balanced with a negative one about him in every instance and that every compliment paid him that doesn’t include a criticism is “fanboying.”

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #99)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:51 PM

103. Up to a certain point I agree

But unfortunately that isn’t the case lately. It been nothing but how great McCain and Schmidt and others like them are for some of their current comments with literally no effort to keep perspective of who they are and what they have done.

Some of these people have spent their entire careers empowering people no different on paper than trump.

I do not think it is unfair nor unseemly to inject a little perspective every now and then to make that point.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #103)

Sat May 12, 2018, 03:44 PM

119. You're not talking about "every now and then"

There has hardly been a dearth of awareness about or criticism of McCain’s record. But I don’t think it’s necessary to inject it into every comment about him in order for us to maintain “perspective.”

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #119)

Sat May 12, 2018, 03:52 PM

121. It makes absolutely no sense to "beat up" MCCain now. It puts us in deplorable company.

Also, he chose President Obama to eulogize him. That says so much about McCain to me, all of it good.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #121)

Sat May 12, 2018, 05:00 PM

122. Biden went to see him last week.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #94)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:39 PM

98. Well said!

I have lived in Arizona for decades, voted Democratic to no avail. Compromise is not a dirty word for me, nor does it represent defeat.

Wearing the label of wimp suits me well. (big grin here) Call me a traitor and...

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Response to saidsimplesimon (Reply #98)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:50 PM

102. Just look at Arpaio

He really would be worse

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Response to JI7 (Reply #102)

Sat May 12, 2018, 01:08 PM

108. What?

How dare you even speak the name of that criminal, bigot?

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #94)

Sat May 12, 2018, 02:40 PM

115. Thank you, Effie!

It pains me that some feel "decency" (way more on the right than the left) is expendable in the name of ideology amidst our national discourse.

"Pains me" doesn't even describe it. I was raised to fight for my beliefs, but to do so in a way that allows for the continued application of the whole idea of polite discourse. Yes, modern Republicans broke that covenant long ago, but I, like Steve Perry, "don't stop believing".

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #94)

Sat May 12, 2018, 08:40 PM

145. +1

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #94)

Sun May 13, 2018, 05:31 AM

169. Thank you, Effie

For expressing what I feel.

We are too decent to lower ourselves to their level. Our Parents taught us better.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 12:55 PM

104. FFS, you can respect the man and disagree with his views, the two aren't mutually exclusive

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Response to still_one (Reply #104)

Sat May 12, 2018, 01:56 PM

114. For some, anger is a "go-to" emotion over reason...

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Response to still_one (Reply #104)

Sat May 12, 2018, 06:19 PM

130. You respect people like Schmidt and McCain???

Schmidt who was a disciple of Cheney and Rove?

Who has spent his entire professional career empowering and enabling republicans to disenfranchise the poor and weak?

These are not people to respect.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #130)

Sat May 12, 2018, 09:09 PM

149. Yeah, I do respect McCain's service to his country, you have a problem with that? I guess you must

be pretty pissed at Joe Biden, President Obama, and a lot of other Democrats

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 03:12 PM

118. Yes, write this 1000 times

What you said:

the republican perspective is delusional and reckless and antithetical to a happy and prosperous nation

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 03:49 PM

120. You know he has chosen President Obama to eulogize him.

Something to ponder.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #120)

Sat May 12, 2018, 06:29 PM

131. All well and good

Just months ago he decided to make what likely he knew was his last vote in the senate, to vote to approve the tax bill that will cripple the poor and middle class and decimate our federal budget for years.

I personally wish him no harm and a quite and peaceful end of life if that is indeed the only possible outcome for him now. That vote clearly indicates that he does not feel that same sentiment towards others not in his income class.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #131)

Sat May 12, 2018, 06:37 PM

132. Will you be upset when he passes and President Obama lionizes him in his eulogy ?

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #132)

Sat May 12, 2018, 07:22 PM

137. Won't be thrilled

I think it’s all good and well to give him a proper eulogy but making him into something he wasn’t is disingenuous and unfair to the victims of laws and actions he endorsed and advocated.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #137)

Sat May 12, 2018, 08:27 PM

142. I predict President Obama will say he was a true American hero.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #142)

Sun May 13, 2018, 05:36 AM

170. He will also tell funny things,reflect on McCains

War experiences.

Who knows,he may just sing Amazing Grace. Maybe not, but think how great that would be.

[link:http://|

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 05:15 PM

126. And I feel McCain and Schmidt both put this turd ball in motion by bringing Palin onto the ticket

They were the ones that unleashed that horror onto the world stage, laying the expedited groundwork for the uncouth, corrupt, rude and disgusting administration we have today. She perpetrated and unapologetically incited the anger and hate in the deplorables. Things spiraled down with the introduction of her. I know it all had been brewing under the surface for decades, but I think Palin hastened it all.

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Response to meadowlark5 (Reply #126)

Sun May 13, 2018, 03:01 AM

166. I think Reagan put this turd ball in motion. nt

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 05:25 PM

127. Yes. Remember they were good with W.

Sadly there are many who are newly engaged (like literally followed politics NOT AT ALL) until 2016. They instantly became experts and determined to take things over.

Of course they stupidly fall for Rs who are anti Trump because they know absolutely nothing of these people pre Trump.

Gullible fools.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 06:09 PM

129. Taking Trump down without republican help is impossible


and I applaud any republican who publically renounces an autocrat installed by Putin.

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Response to orangecrush (Reply #129)

Sat May 12, 2018, 07:22 PM

136. I think purity tests are for lazy thinkers

That aside, I am also pretty sure there are enough in the middle who don't follow any of it that could make the difference on either side and that could change just about any outcome.

It's like we have many concepts in life that work and we use them but that doesn't indicate we want to be like the persons or organization brought them forth

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Response to orangecrush (Reply #129)

Sat May 12, 2018, 07:40 PM

139. Precisely.

Well said.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 07:39 PM

138. The shortlist of Never-Trumper-Republicans who publicly tangle with 45 are an invaluable resource.

This is a prime example of the CONSTANT battle within the ranks of Democrats and progressives— PURITY in everything political. At the moment, Democrats alone cannot even get into the game; they lack the numbers to block or initiate ANY horrible shit that issues from 45 and his enablers. And Bernie’s rally tours accomplish nothing regarding the immediate, morphing-into-full-blown-fascism crises taking place in Washington and worldwide. But John McCain’s single vote saved the ACA (at least temporarily, even as Trump cuts funds)— something any Democrat/progressive could NOT have done, because they lack the votes.

Liberal democracies in the U.S. and Europe are now dangling by a very slender thread, and they need all the help they can get. If that means enlisting conservatives and Never-Trumper Republicans like John McCain, Jennifer Rubin, David Jolly, Steve Schmidt, Michael Steele, Richard Painter, David Frum, Max Boot, Jeff Flake, Charles Sykes, etc., so be it. They should be welcomed into the fray, since they uniquely oppose Trump as *insiders* being driven away from their party. Their informed efforts cannot be immediately dismissed as purely partisan, whereas progressives/Democrats get predictably shitcanned with statements like, “more insanity from loony liberal activists.”

Yes, historically and presently, Republicans are assholes who don’t care much for government “by the people.” But there are some among them, as we have seen, who are betting their entire futures in GOP politics as harsh, unswerving critics of Trump. They may be Republicans, and we differ on many issues, but, in short, DEMOCRATS NEED THEM in their corner RIGHT NOW.

Without their help attacking from the inside, Trump and his lieutenants will never stopped. So, hardly “fanboying,” but yes, very appreciative of their standing with us. “It’s not normal” for them either.

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Response to VOX (Reply #138)

Sat May 12, 2018, 08:34 PM

143. Well said.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 08:37 PM

144. McCain is normal

He voted against repealing the ACA.

It's not fanboying to realize he is one of the few who are normal Republicans.

The Tea Party and the Orange Disaster are what we don't want normalized.

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Response to treestar (Reply #144)

Sun May 13, 2018, 10:36 AM

178. Short memories and shortsighted

Even according to 538 he supports trump’s voting position 83% of the time:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/john-mccain/

So tell me again how he is “normal” like us Dems?

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 08:51 PM

147. Wrong. I know people who have switched parties and become great Democrats.

Give people a chance. Enforcement of purity standards is what gave us George W. Bush (thanks Ralph Nader supporters) and Trump (lots of people to thank there but no need to start a new fight.)

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 08:53 PM

148. He's okay in my book.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #148)

Sun May 13, 2018, 12:14 AM

165. here is a pic his daughter in law just posted

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:03 PM

151. I disagree. I think McCain is a fine man who has a different ideology in many areas...

but he has common decency and fine qualities, and has the SAME ideology as moderate Democrats in an area or two.

It does not do the Democrats any good to hate someone because they are Republican.

There IS crossover territory. And you can get along with people who have a differing view. That is the strength of the country. Not a weakness.

Don't listen to people who say you must dislike or hate anyone who is on the opposing team. They hate us even more these days, and that's part of the problem with the vulgarity and hatefulness we see now and in the last decade. It's not good.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:05 PM

152. Agreed... big K&R!

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:26 PM

158. ""I wanted to let him know how much I love him (John McCain)."

-Joe Biden

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #158)

Sat May 12, 2018, 10:28 PM

160. +1 nt

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:42 PM

162. Grammatical error detected...

Middle names are capitalized

"Sarah fucking Pain"

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sat May 12, 2018, 11:54 PM

163. Unrec ...

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2018, 05:55 AM

171. Main Street Republicans have become Corporate Republicans

and therein is the problem.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2018, 07:06 AM

172. when I read an editorial by his daughter

That said she was a Republican before she was a Christian, I realized what type of values he had passed on ... sigh

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Response to UpInArms (Reply #172)

Sun May 13, 2018, 08:30 AM

176. "Christian" morphed into irrelevant meaning/application.

Sadly, one’s invoking either affiliation-christian or repub is associated with pergorative qualities. Her label-dropping shows her disconnect with reality. Yes, certainly as one watches her perform her apologetics for the repub policies (from her father’s indoctrination) she proclaims them daily. A shame that she is rewarded so handsomely to do that.

Regarding tribute to her father as he is afflicted with the same terminal eventuality as his late Senate opponent, “Lion of the Senate”-Ted Kennedy, I’m in disagreement with many on this board.
Qualities like “respect” and “hero” are easily misapplied. I’m not automatically obliged to afford such praise because of their military career or occasional vote for our side. I view the person’s support for the good in totality of their (in this case) 50 year record.

If any progressive believes our “respect”, “decency”, or “kindness” toward any of these hardcore conservatives will earn us the same in return-I’m perplexed by such optimism-250 years of US history begs to disagree.

I don’t need to bow to nor denigrate those whatever their demise-we all must face our immortality. However, the banality of evil is real and must be recognized as it resides in all corners of those inflated by it’s political power.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2018, 08:32 AM

177. The right is as normal as the left in the US.


Sometimes we agree about important things and that should be acknowledged.

We can win the WH and the majority of Congress and SCOTUS, but we can’t treat every Republican the same.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #177)

Sun May 13, 2018, 11:14 AM

182. All Republicans that voted for Trump and vote for his legislation are complicit

McCain, Graham, Kasich and the like offer occasional writ-slapping criticisms of the orange shitgibbon, but never more than that.

Hold them all accountable.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2018, 01:31 PM

192. Lots of people think that political disagreements are nothing to worry about

That just because someone wishes I, and all my friends and loved ones be in absolute poverty, and become destitute if I have to visit a hospital doesn't mean that I shouldn't dislike them. Sure he brought Palin to the national stage and legitimized the tea party doing so, but he's a fine man. He's been championing wars for ages, but that doesn't mean we can't be friends.

I'm wondering what line has to be crossed with some people to actually make then change their mind about someone. How privileged a life are they living that everything the republican party and it's members are doing doesn't affect them or their loved ones in any way?

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2018, 05:40 PM

197. "John McCain is an American hero & one of the bravest fighters I've ever known..."

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2018, 05:43 PM

198. I agree that we have to be careful

Trump is abnormal, but the regular Repuke agenda is still very dangerous. Trump has supported much of that agenda. Accept Nicole Wallace and Steve Schmidt because we could use any help we can get, but don't expect them to stay on our side.

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Response to mvd (Reply #198)

Sun May 13, 2018, 07:02 PM

201. Agreed ....

Accept Nicole Wallace and Steve Schmidt because we could use any help we can get, but don't expect them to stay on our side.


Hope things will improve for you

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Sun May 13, 2018, 11:06 PM

204. I don't

Mostly I acknowledge them being right once in a while, much like a stopped clock.

I also laugh when they make that occasional really great comment.

Trust them? Nope, never.

Believe we are even close to on the same team? Nope. I wasn't born yesterday.

But, on the political or basic human decency scale? If your greatest accomplishment is being slightly less awful than Trump...well that isn't really what you'd call a badge of honor.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Tue May 15, 2018, 01:50 PM

206. The important thing is that you continue to confuse patience and consideration with fanboying.

The important thing is that you continue to confuse quite patience and slow consideration with fanboying. The ironic dogma of your position it is as bemusing as it is ironic.




I'm always happy though, to laugh at people who tell me who to hate. I started doing so in reponse to AM Talk radio, and you proudly continue the tradition.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #206)

Tue May 15, 2018, 02:43 PM

207. The mistake is your own

I did not use the word “hate” nor did I advocate for hate.
Whatever the takeaway, it is your own and not what I said.
I do stand by my final statement:

the republican perspective is delusional and reckless and antithetical to a happy and prosperous nation


Not only is that born out by years of evidence with respect to the impact of republican policy on our nation, it is plain to even the casual observer.

There is post after post regarding the words of republicans that have some, if not all, spent their entire professional career advocating for republican policies that have done/would have done very real harm to the most vulnerable of our society. These people have done little to nothing but offer empty rhetoric about a madman to little or no effect.

What would be better would be to raise up and praise Democrats in Congress to stand up to this administration. To not equivocate or demure but to speak up and act with conviction.

What would be better would be to raise up and praise Democrats across the country to stand up to this administration. To not equivocate or demure but to speak up and act with conviction.

What would be better would be to raise up and praise Independents across the country to stand up to this administration. To not equivocate or demure but to speak up and act with conviction.

That is how you slow this administration to a crawl and how you show republicans that this is their problem and they need to own it and pay the political price for not just trump but decades of racism, misogyny, bigotry and complete incompetence.

McCain is a republican, through and through, according to 538 he has voted in-line with trump 83% of the time.

Schmidt has worked his entire career as a RWNJ and learned from Cheney and Rove how to run campaigns.

In my opinion, these are not the people worthy of praise. That they suddenly seem to have grown a soul because trump says out loud in public what republicans typically on say behind closed doors does not mean we should start patting them on the head. Whatever their reasons it is not because they want to start hugging Democrats and helping the poor and needy.

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Response to angrychair (Original post)

Tue May 15, 2018, 03:50 PM

208. I see precious little fanboiism over Republicans..

So little in fact that it isn't even worth mentioning..

For the record, the "stop fanboying over republicans" was just another bullshit smokescreen talking point crafted by leftbros Greenwald, Scahill, Klion, TYT, Taibbi, Bragman, Fang, etc. because they have a vested interest in making sure the #Resistance gets labeled as corrupt and establishment... They also do this so nobody pays too close attention to just how these self-appointed thought leaders of the "left" HAVE DONE JACK FUCKING SHIT TO OPPOSE TRUMP IN TWO YEARS!

These days I refuse to waste time on any fake-assed echo chamber lefties who only sees so-called establishment Dems as the real enemy, and I suggest more DUers follow suit. In time, these traitors will be made to pay for the hellish nightmare we must endure every day, all because they wanted to throw a pissy-shit fit after the primaries...

And FWIW, trying to fracture the unity of the other side is a perfectly cromulent tactic... You saw how fast the GOP thought leaders started whoring for Kanye West last week, right??

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #208)

Tue May 15, 2018, 04:28 PM

209. First

If your post is attempting to imply that I’m some nutjob like Greenwald or Jordan Chariton than you obviously don’t know anything about me because nothing is further from the truth. Can’t stand those assholes.

I’d also suggest you read my post #207 above.

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Response to angrychair (Reply #209)

Tue May 15, 2018, 05:42 PM

210. I never said that nor did I imply it

I just said it's a weak strawman talking point championed by prominent people who are not on our side which has sadly duped a whole lot of well-meaning people...

Too many of the high-profile voices on the left seem hellbent on discrediting Mueller and branding anyone who supports him as a "sellout" because of his GOP background...

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