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Sun May 6, 2018, 10:04 AM

Are taxcuts and economy most important issues for the average American?

Do issues such as freedom, democracy, honesty, and character even matter anymore?

So long as we have a job and we get a small taxcut, we don't really care what happens with the rest of our government? We don't care if our leaders are conspiring with Russia to destroy our democracy? We don't care if our elected leaders lie every time they open their mouths? We don't really care about facts and the truth.

Have we become so lost as a people that we no longer care about our fellow man? Do we only care about our own personal well-being and ideas like freedom and democracy are alien to our everyday lives?

Where does this path lead us? When the economy goes south, what do we have left?

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Reply Are taxcuts and economy most important issues for the average American? (Original post)
kentuck May 2018 OP
vi5 May 2018 #1
beachbum bob May 2018 #2
Docreed2003 May 2018 #4
MousePlayingDaffodil May 2018 #3
Ferrets are Cool May 2018 #7
MousePlayingDaffodil May 2018 #10
Demsrule86 May 2018 #5
Ferrets are Cool May 2018 #6
Clarity2 May 2018 #8
defacto7 May 2018 #9

Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 10:08 AM

1. Yes, it is.

 

We are a country that consists largely of self-centered individuals.

And if the economy goes south, someone else is always to blame.

And people are concerned about THEIR freedoms (gun, religion, etc.) which is why there are more single issue republican voters than there are on our side.

We are largely in this shit state we are in within this country because we've been denying these basic facts for the better part of 40 years or so and have continued to pretend for far too long that we are a caring, compassionate people who genuinely care for one another.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 10:11 AM

2. depends on what americans you talking about

 

we are not 100% unified country on anything except a terrorist attack on our soil.

rural vs urban...HUGE differences
young vs old...HUGE differences
white vs non-white...HUGE differences
rich vs everyone else...HUGE differences
conservatives vs liberals...HUGE differences
religious vs non-religious...HUGE differences

unfortunately in almost all cases the "end" usually justifies the "means"

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Response to beachbum bob (Reply #2)

Sun May 6, 2018, 10:18 AM

4. Spot on! Nt

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 10:15 AM

3. "Anymore"?

I'm sorry to have to break this to you, but abstractions such as freedom, democracy, honesty, and character have never mattered in the realm of politics. People vote (what they perceive to be) their own self-interest. Always have. Always will.

The Framers understood this perfectly well . . . up to a point. Where they went wrong is that they went forward in the expectation -- or, at least, the hope -- that people would vote their enlightened self-interest. Their expectations in that regard have proven ill-considered. This is not all that surprising, it seems to me. Being men of the Enlightenment, their outlook on human nature was (ultimately) unduly optimistic.

"Enlightenment twits," I call such men.

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Response to MousePlayingDaffodil (Reply #3)

Sun May 6, 2018, 10:41 AM

7. I am so glad you added the word "perceived".

Because deplorable's definitely do not vote in their best self interests.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Reply #7)

Sun May 6, 2018, 02:46 PM

10. Yes, "perceived" is the key notion here, I think.

People allow themselves to get played. And their failure in this regard is their own responsibility. Most people, regardless of their political or ideological disposition, prefer to let others do their thinking for them. It's a character deficiency, for the most part.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 10:21 AM

5. In times of great economic upheaval, I think people vote their pocketbook as in 08. but

other years, they vote for social issues or gun issues...sometimes they vote against their economic interests. There was a book about it years ago called 'What's the matter with Kansas' and it is still true today.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 10:40 AM

6. Evidently, during the 2016 Presidential cycle it was overt racism. nt

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 12:01 PM

8. I hear ya

and its really made me lose faith in humanity. I will never be able to look at people in this country, and some family and friends the same way ever again.

There were so many drums beating on the right about weeding out corruption in government. Where are they now? Where are the conservative constitutionalists protecting our constitution? All of it. Not just your 2nd amendment. So you're fine with a fascist government infiltrated by russia, corruption and mobsters as long as you can keep your assault weapons and ban abortion??

Society is sick. I wish we could put a wall around them and trump.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun May 6, 2018, 01:07 PM

9. K&R for the whole conversation.

Excellent op excellent replies.

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