The Joy Reid story is a sad story.

[madaboutharry]

I have watched Joy Reid nearly every Saturday morning since she took over the time slot. I was very upset when this story first broke, posted that I would stop watching, then I wavered wanting to give her the benefit of the doubt, and now I am troubled by it all over again. This post from Drunken Irishman is very important:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=post&forum=1002&pid=10540836

In his post, Drunken Irishman points out that DUer Ian David linked the blog post on February 6, 2007, the same day as the date of posting. That would mean that Joy Reid's blog was hacked within the 24 hours of the posting. That is a deep stretch for me to believe.

The other thing that challenges the credibility of the hacking claim is the writing style of the post. It is grammatically correct, well written, and has Joy Reid's writing style. If hacked, it was hacked by a highly educated person with great writing skills and a strong vocabulary.

We don't know what the truth is right now. I understand defending her. I think this is one of those times when we need the patience to wait for this whole sad situation to shake itself out. Sooner or later, we will know what happened.

[LonePirate]

1. Do you feel she believes those things now or do you think she has evolved and is an LGBTQ ally now?

Many, many people have completely reversed their views on LGBTQ people and issues over the past 10 years. Joy could easily be one of them. If she indeed is, we should welcome her with open arms and forget the past.

To me, it seems she certainly is an ally now. Perhaps people feel she has not changed and so things she said over a decade ago are still relevant today.

Personally, I think this whole mess smells like a hit job from either the right or the far left factions.

[madaboutharry]

6. She had the opportunity to say that.

If these posts are her posts and she has now evolved from that thinking, then she should have said that. She could have put out a statement in which she explained that she was wrong in her thinking and no longer sees the world the same way. If that is the case, then she missed a great opportunity.

[mythology]

12. In her defense, she did say that about the posts about Charlie Crist that came to light

in December. She apologized and took responsibility for them. While I am skeptical of the claim that these other posts (from the same general time frame) were the result of hacking, I don't know that I see anything worse in them that would make her deny these, unless it's the notion that the second go around might be worse for her career.

Ii want to see the evidence her security guy says he has.

[ollie10]

20. I am a Joy Reid fan as well

Is this a hit job? That would not surprise me.

Was this really her views at the time? Has she changed now?

I am going to reserve judgement until we can see just what evidence she is able to find that this is a hack.

Many people rushed to judgement with Franken, including some who may have been politically motivated. I hope Joy is not railroaded in a similar manner.

However, is this is not a hack, we have a right to know that as well.

[Calista241]

32. If it is a hit job, they went back in time to do it.

Making up or embellishing a hacking story just made it worse imo.

[mercuryblues]

40. My question is

all of these posts came from the same time frame. When the ones she has apologized for became viral, why didn't the others do the same? The ones that became viral sent thousands to her blog, none of them noticed these post then?

[Exotica]

59. Her blog was long ago taken down, years before the first homophobic

posts (Crist, etc) came to light. Plus her techs put robots.txt blocks on the archived site (from her end) after the Internet Archive team refused to delete her archive. Using the Internet Archive is very laborious and time consuming. It is not like looking at a live version. It also is not complete, as to be archived a page has to be crawled by a bot or manually added real time by a person looking at it.

[mercuryblues]

61. Oh, so

her blog wasn't to hard to find and draw attention to the 1st set of posts. But became to hard at the time to find more.

Then the person goes back and miraculously finds more, because now it isn't to hard for him to do so.

IDK about you, but if I find something on a person's blog, I keep looking to see if this was a one off or if there is more.

[Exotica]

62. The first group of posts were also hard to find, as the entire

blog had long ago been taken down. Then, after the shitstir, Joy demanded that Internet Archive completely remove ALL their entire archived pages. They said no, then her team put robots.txt blocking scripts up from her end, but you still get around that by using the US Library of Congress version.

After the first posts came out, people went back via IA and found more. They sent those images (they snapshotted what they found) plus the links to the IA archived pages. The links no longer worked as she had put up robots.txt blocks, BUT tge New York Times and other major papers used the LoB version to verify that they were legit. Internet Archive also verified and further stated that their database was never hacked.

The only way a 'hack' could have happened is back 11 years ago, on her site when it was live, as a website's pages are crawled (and thus archived) all the time.

Even if a person wanted to hack into Internet Archive, they would have to change possibly hundreds of pages as specific URL's are crawled multiple times, in some cases thousands of times on different dates. To 'hack' the IA, ever single instance of a crawl on every date it was archived would have to be accessed and changed in the EXACT same way.

[Exotica]

65. here is an example of an Internet Archive page

https://web.archive.org/web/20050829081656/https://www.yoox.com

on just that one day it was crawled (archived) 28 times, again in one day, the total times that ONE url has been captured and archived is 6,735 times.

Here is a snapshot I just made of it.



NOW, if Yoox (its a giant high end fashion firm from Italy) for some reason wanted to stop people from seeing 17,18 years (they started in 2000) worth of archived pages, they would have to do what Joy's team did (after the first homophobic posts came out and after IA refused to pull her blog archives down), that is go in and put robots.text blocking scripts up from their end, on their servers.

http://www.robotstxt.org

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

35. NO QUESTION, that would have been the easy way out... so doesn't that

bode in Joy's favor that she chose the hard way, claiming she was hacked? Isn't that PRECISELY the reason to give her the benefit of the doubt? At least until we see reliable evidence that she's lying.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

28. While I'm giving Joy the benefit of the doubt, though this post has me thinking...

your point is wholly irrelevant. If it can be shown that Joy clearly lied, she's in big trouble, especially considering her status as a journalist. She will then have lost me, regardless of her turn around on her past homophobic views.

Hell, had Joy owned up to the newly surfaced comments, she could EASILY have lumped them with previous ones for which she had already apologized, and been forgiven, said how embarrassed she was, apologize again and this would have been a one- or two-day story. People would have hardly blinked an eye.

BUT, by claiming Joy had her blog hacked, that's a WHOLE DIFFERENT STORY. That's the lens through which her character will now be judged... and rightfully so. For now, she gets the benefit of the doubt from me, though, like I said, this latest information, if true, at least has me thinking.

[LonePirate]

42. Were talking about two different issues here.

I am talking about her LGBT views. You are talking about her hacking statements. They may be connected but they are distinct issues even though furor over the former may have led to the latter.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

48. Oh okay, I see what you're saying.

[Hav]

2. Yes, we have to wait

But I also think there is some confusion about what the claims are. I'm not sure which posts she claimed were hacked or altered. The story that was linked to might very well be one that Reid would acknowledge to have written. There could still be other more offensive posts that she claims were not written by her. Too often in these discussions, it seems to be either all were hacked or all were written by her or that the fact that she apologized for the Crist posts means she did every other offensive post as well.

[pnwmom]

4. +1. nt

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

29. Yes it would be good if Joy specifically highlighted those comments that she is claiming were hacked

[pnwmom]

3. She is not claiming that ALL of her negative posts were altered, just some of them.

So you found one that wasn't altered. That doesn't prove anything.

[oberliner]

8. What evidence would you need to see for you to believe that the posts were real?

[duforsure]

5. Joy is being Frankined?

There may be a lot more uncovered showing that others were behind this. Love watching and listening to her , and she's become target, like others have been for her opinions on trump. Russians also have a long story of planting false things to attack with. This may also be a lot bigger story when they show they were involved. Frankin was a hit job .

[Fullduplexxx]

9. More like gillidranded

[BannonsLiver]

64. LOL thanks for the laugh.

Irony is as lost art.

[oasis]

10. +1

[janterry]

7. I agree that it's sad

but it appears that she is lying. The proof is out there, I'm afraid. And the idea that she is being honest - at this point - really stretches the imagination.

[uponit7771]

25. There is no proof "out there" that she's lying, this is false on its face

[janterry]

27. I understand that people want to believe her

In general, I have liked her - and hope that she and her team will stop impeding the investigation (her code is stopping us from seeing the dates - that is, of course, the 'proof').

If she does that, perhaps you will even be right. For her sake, I hope so.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

34. What do you mean by "her code is stopping us from seeing the dates"?

[janterry]

57. Here's are two paragraphs from the Atlantic Article

but you should really read the whole thing.

The Wayback Machine has been archiving posts for years and years, and in many instances, it re-crawls URLs. A blog post that went live in 2006 might have been indexed in 2007 and 2009 and 2011 and 2017. This is important because if Reid’s blog was hacked to insert new posts with old dates, the copies in the Internet Archive’s repository would have recent dates, even if they showed old time stamps on Reid’s site.

It’s not possible to view the Internet Archive’s public stash of Reid blog posts because Reid’s team recently inserted code into the site that prevents the Internet Archive from indexing it.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

58. Okay, gotcha, thanks.

[David__77]

37. You can see history by typing "https" instead of "http."

See https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://blog.reidreport.com

[HipChick]

11. And Dems continue the lynching...I wonder how many Dems have said/published racist things

in the past, that would hurt them now? A few months backs, there was a similar attempt on Chris Matthews, I didn't see half the hand wringing about that, that I see about Joy.
I support Joy no matter what, but enjoy the division politics that you'll seem to fall for

[madaboutharry]

13. I don't see it as division politics.

It is about personal responsibility. I think the jury is out at the moment.

I will not support anyone no matter what. If she wrote those posts and is now lying, I can not support her. If it was indeed a result of hacking, then we will find that out in time.

[HipChick]

14. Personal responsibility?

In that case, half the folks in politics, based on that criteria should go *poof*..but enjoy the pearl clutching, no wonder we can't win elections

[TheSmarterDog]

21. The "Joy is evil" narrative is being pushed by Fox News, Breitbart, Wikileaks, & Glen Greenwald.

That's not suspect enough to you? Doesn't everyone have the personal responsibility to vet their sources?

[uponit7771]

26. You have no proof that she's lying other than haters OPs' with glaring ommissions

[Demsrule86]

31. and that is why we lose...the purity test.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

36. LYING is the key... if that turns out to be the case, I'm sad to say, it's over for Joy.

[TheSmarterDog]

41. And what of the people lying about her?

[treestar]

43. Zero tolerance for lying

makes as little sense as about for anyone else. Bill lied about Monica and yet that does not mean he would lie about major things - it is not all either-or. This is similar. Plus the hack is possible.

[oberliner]

15. "I support Joy no matter what"

No matter what? Seriously?

[democratisphere]

16. I stand with Joy Reid regardless of what she did or didn't do or say.

All that matters is her support and position today, as long as it is genuine. People can change their position on issues throughout their lives, many of us do it.

[Rorey]

18. This

Exactly my sentiment on this topic.

Case in point: I wasn't always a Democrat. (Quick to add, though, that I was NEVER a Republican. )

[democratisphere]

22. Thanks for your support for Joy Reid.

Glad you're a Democrat and here on DU!

[Rorey]

23. Changed my affiliation from Independent to Democrat about 20 years ago

And now a VERY proud Democrat.

[Sunsky]

24. This is where I stand as well

You can tell we're close to an election.

[democratisphere]

33. Yep. With the good, the bad and the ugly.

[Vinca]

17. Let's assume for the sake of argument Joy made the original posts and lied about the hacking.

People sometimes make bad decisions when they feel cornered or threatened. Apparently the FBI is now involved so in the end we'll find out one way or the other. In any case, on the original issue, Joy does not appear to hold the views expressed in the 11 year old posts. I would hate to think anyone who has ever said or done something stupid or offensive and has since changed their stance would automatically be thrown under the bus. Joy is a strong voice for the left and we should stand behind her based on what she says today. For all we know, this is manufactured outrage meant to divide us, frustrate us and keep us from the polls in November.

[Rorey]

19. Well stated NT

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

47. Sorry, but if Joy is lying about this, and I've seen no convincing evidence that she is...

it's over for her... she's done. Fortunately, I can't imagine why she would lie about hacking when it would have been FAR FAR easier to lump those newly discovered, but old, comments with the ones for which she has already apologized and was forgiven.

The fact that Joy did NOT take the easy route is precisely the reason why I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt, at least unless and until convincing evidence says otherwise.

[Demsrule86]

30. I don't even care. I like Joy and the right wing has gone to a great deal of trouble to get rid of

her because she is effective. Greenwald and Wiki are a dead giveaway that Russia is involved...Sen. Sanders supporters who dislike Joy because she does not fall in line and adore him are piling on...they shouldn't do that...Duer's should certainly support Joy.

[Adrahil]

38. That's where I am right now. NT

[Demsrule86]

51. I just don't care...we have to at some point stop eating our own.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

45. Being a Sanders supporter has zero, nada, zilch to do with this issue, at least as far as

I'm concerned. While I didn't appreciate some of Joy's comments directed at Bernie and Jane, I don't remember taking a single swipe at her for that. That's because she's SO good on SO many progressive issues that we ALL care about!!

And, now, that Joy's in this mess, it should be EASY for ANYONE to put themselves in her shoes and consider how THEY would feel having been hacked. That violation goes WAY beyond anything personal people might feel about Joy.

Hell, Bernie could be the next victim of a hacking... we need to stand up and unite against any such outrageous actions. BTW, if this had happened to Bernie, I do wonder though whether all the Hillary supporters here could overlook THEIR biases and would support Bernie the way they're properly supporting Joy in this case... sadly, I HIGHLY doubt it.

[Demsrule86]

50. That is not what I meant...but there is a group of supporters (not saying you) who dislike Joy

because of some friction with Jane Sanders and some comments she made concerning Sen. Sanders as well...and I have seen these folks on twitter just attacking...I would bet Bernie will not be a victim of hacking...the Russians and the right wing want Bernie...we know this by watching Greenwald and Wiki...I think they believe he would be easy to defeat in the General..and they may be right. I have serious concerns as you know if he runs in 20. Of course I will vote for the Democratic nominee...but this is a make or break election.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

56. I'm sure you're right about SOME Bernie supporters who don't like Joy for the reasons you mention...

but to listen to some here (not you either), you'd think that Bernie HIMSELF hacked Joy's blog, or at least his supporters in concert with Russian trolls.TBH, those false accusations are almost as disgraceful as the underlying hack job itself.

We've been compared to Rethuglicans, Nazis, you name it... even the ultimate Nazi, tRump. So, forgive me for being a little sensitive to what you said.

I try my best here to overcome my internal biases, to be objective, and to listen to the opinions of other people whom I respect, ESPECIALLY ones with whom I may disagree with from time to time - you being one - thinking maybe they can change my mind on a particular issue.

I do think the Hillary supporters here go WAY over the top to attach the most vile motives to people with whom they disagree... it doesn't exactly make people feel welcome here and promote unity. That's why I HIGHLY doubt they would stand with Bernie if he was hacked.

But hey, no matter, that's irrelevant too... we should ALL do the right thing in Joy's case and support her by giving her the benefit of the doubt that what she's saying about having her blog hacked is true, unless and until there's convincing evidence that says otherwise.

[Demsrule86]

67. I don't think Bernie will involve himself in this...why should he? But I don't think it is Hillary

supporters...I supported Hillary in the general. But I have moved on...on those points I disagree with Sen. Sander, it has nothing to do with Clinton...had to let it all go...no purpose in refighting the primary. I don't see Hillary supporters as much as people who fear 2020 will be a loss for us if Sen. Sanders runs...it is fear.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

68. I hear ya... just wish others could move on like you have Dems.

[Demsrule86]

69. You have to...Trump is the worst...we have to get him out.

Hey have a great day...always a pleasure to chat.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

70. Thanks, couldn't agree more... whatever it takes to remove that POS from office...

that's what should guide us.

Always nice talkin to you too... you have a good one.

[Adrahil]

39. STOP FALLING FOR THIS BULLSHIT!!!!!!

This has happened over and over. The Russians and the right are playing us against each other.

STOP FUCKING FALLING FOR IT!!!!

[bdamomma]

60. I believe that too

the vicious right is trying to divide people mainly Democrats/Liberals. I came to the "Joy" story late trying to see what this is all about, by reading the threads here.

What is saying "United we stand divided we fall"

[oasis]

44. The same forces who robbed us of Hillary are now targeting Joy. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

46. The most difficult task in the world is

The most difficult task in the world is bringing the same judgement to people we like to people we dislike. I like this Biblical quote from Jesus, " For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

[madaboutharry]

49. You are right about that.

[samnsara]

52. im going to continue watching her.. shes a breath of fresh air...

...

[quickesst]

53. I would venture a guess...

..... that the majority of people who are beating up on Joy Reid would not do so if it were understood their past would be made public for all to see should they decide to do so, and I am including those past actions that only they might be aware of. Uh-huh

[Gothmog]

54. From Malcom Nance

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Proud Liberal Dem]

55. I'm not a huge watcher of Reid

but if she really wrote what she did back then, she should own up to it. Seems somebody is out to stir things up, but she should at least be honest about whether or not she posted what she did. It's ok to say that you used to believe some negative things but that you have changed/evolved since then, though I can imagine how it might be embarrassing to admit it.

[dembotoz]

63. there are hundreds of folks in media more deserving of hate than joy reid

please keep that in mind....

[sarcasmo]

66. A Franken style, coordinated take down.