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Wed Apr 4, 2018, 01:55 PM

Every UNCONDITIONAL supporter of the Democratic Party, step forward!

That's me!

Reminds me of the joke of the drill sergeant finding a unique way to break it to one of his recruits, who's name is Jenkins, that his father had died. Lines them all up and says "everybody with a father, take a step forward", then adds "not so fast Jenkins"

Yeah, that is me...

UNCONDITIONAL support, I mean to say that if there are two candidates running for a house seat in the D party and one of them is KNOWN to have a better shot at winning in November than the other but said candidate is anti choice, anti labor, anti environment, well guess what, because I understand MATH, I still vote for him.

He could be anti HUMAN RACE and I still vote for him, again, because of MATH.

Unconditional, that is me.

AT THIS POINT IN TIME, that is

Sure, when we have the LUXURY of criticism, then yes we can do whatever. You wont like my criticisms when that time comes, BTW, because I want to nationalize most stuff. Not most I guess but way more than anyone here does, or most here do.

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Arrow 215 replies Author Time Post
Reply Every UNCONDITIONAL supporter of the Democratic Party, step forward! (Original post)
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 OP
hlthe2b Apr 2018 #1
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #3
hlthe2b Apr 2018 #6
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #7
hlthe2b Apr 2018 #8
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #9
hlthe2b Apr 2018 #13
MFM008 Apr 2018 #202
hlthe2b Apr 2018 #203
RandomAccess Apr 2018 #39
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #54
mahina Apr 2018 #143
Hortensis Apr 2018 #211
Wwcd Apr 2018 #20
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #22
hlthe2b Apr 2018 #34
Wwcd Apr 2018 #48
Old Vet Apr 2018 #138
hlthe2b Apr 2018 #33
Wwcd Apr 2018 #76
hlthe2b Apr 2018 #79
barbtries Apr 2018 #27
George II Apr 2018 #88
brer cat Apr 2018 #124
XRubicon Apr 2018 #129
hlthe2b Apr 2018 #130
XRubicon Apr 2018 #131
hlthe2b Apr 2018 #132
XRubicon Apr 2018 #134
hlthe2b Apr 2018 #137
XRubicon Apr 2018 #139
hlthe2b Apr 2018 #140
hueymahl Apr 2018 #2
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #4
mcar Apr 2018 #5
NurseJackie Apr 2018 #146
Binkie The Clown Apr 2018 #10
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #11
Hassin Bin Sober Apr 2018 #40
Bucky Apr 2018 #200
BannonsLiver Apr 2018 #12
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #14
MFM008 Apr 2018 #204
NightWatcher Apr 2018 #15
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #16
melman Apr 2018 #55
NightWatcher Apr 2018 #57
George II Apr 2018 #145
R B Garr Apr 2018 #148
melman Apr 2018 #161
R B Garr Apr 2018 #163
melman Apr 2018 #164
R B Garr Apr 2018 #167
melman Apr 2018 #169
R B Garr Apr 2018 #170
melman Apr 2018 #171
R B Garr Apr 2018 #172
Wwcd Apr 2018 #66
Blue_true Apr 2018 #17
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #24
Blue_true Apr 2018 #58
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #85
sarisataka Apr 2018 #94
Gothmog Apr 2018 #18
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #19
JCanete Apr 2018 #21
barbtries Apr 2018 #23
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #26
melman Apr 2018 #52
Stallion Apr 2018 #25
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #29
IluvPitties Apr 2018 #28
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #49
IluvPitties Apr 2018 #69
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #156
murielm99 Apr 2018 #30
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #31
murielm99 Apr 2018 #36
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #38
mahatmakanejeeves Apr 2018 #32
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #47
revmclaren Apr 2018 #67
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #155
revmclaren Apr 2018 #159
tonedevil Apr 2018 #122
RandomAccess Apr 2018 #35
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #44
RandomAccess Apr 2018 #46
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #65
zipplewrath Apr 2018 #51
Wwcd Apr 2018 #37
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #41
jalan48 Apr 2018 #42
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #43
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #45
jalan48 Apr 2018 #50
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #64
jalan48 Apr 2018 #71
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #123
XRubicon Apr 2018 #128
jalan48 Apr 2018 #142
melman Apr 2018 #53
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #61
melman Apr 2018 #63
theaocp Apr 2018 #125
njhoneybadger Apr 2018 #56
revmclaren Apr 2018 #59
HopeAgain Apr 2018 #60
MFM008 Apr 2018 #205
FM123 Apr 2018 #62
melman Apr 2018 #72
ollie10 Apr 2018 #68
Wwcd Apr 2018 #75
sarisataka Apr 2018 #70
disillusioned73 Apr 2018 #81
CaliforniaPeggy Apr 2018 #73
John Fante Apr 2018 #74
redstatebluegirl Apr 2018 #77
bronxiteforever Apr 2018 #78
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #86
bronxiteforever Apr 2018 #116
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #117
bronxiteforever Apr 2018 #118
tymorial Apr 2018 #80
George II Apr 2018 #82
we can do it Apr 2018 #83
kimbutgar Apr 2018 #84
yallerdawg Apr 2018 #87
Generic Brad Apr 2018 #89
Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2018 #90
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #92
Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2018 #101
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #114
Ms. Toad Apr 2018 #158
LanternWaste Apr 2018 #91
NCDawg Apr 2018 #93
erinlough Apr 2018 #95
JackInGreen Apr 2018 #96
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #100
FromMissouri Apr 2018 #97
peggysue2 Apr 2018 #98
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #103
TommyCelt Apr 2018 #99
GaryCnf Apr 2018 #102
Trumpocalypse Apr 2018 #150
KPN Apr 2018 #207
treestar Apr 2018 #104
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #105
treestar Apr 2018 #119
KPN Apr 2018 #208
Kurt V. Apr 2018 #106
catbyte Apr 2018 #107
asiliveandbreathe Apr 2018 #108
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #111
asiliveandbreathe Apr 2018 #115
denbot Apr 2018 #109
NastyRiffraff Apr 2018 #110
Oneironaut Apr 2018 #112
Trumpocalypse Apr 2018 #151
Oneironaut Apr 2018 #160
Trumpocalypse Apr 2018 #173
Doremus Apr 2018 #113
elocs Apr 2018 #120
truthisfreedom Apr 2018 #121
Hoyt Apr 2018 #126
melman Apr 2018 #136
Hoyt Apr 2018 #141
R B Garr Apr 2018 #149
melman Apr 2018 #162
R B Garr Apr 2018 #165
melman Apr 2018 #166
R B Garr Apr 2018 #168
Lordquinton Apr 2018 #127
VOX Apr 2018 #133
tritsofme Apr 2018 #135
gopiscrap Apr 2018 #144
MoonRiver Apr 2018 #147
appleannie1943 Apr 2018 #152
lark Apr 2018 #153
workinclasszero Apr 2018 #154
Orsino Apr 2018 #157
sammythecat Apr 2018 #174
LostOne4Ever Apr 2018 #175
Trumpocalypse Apr 2018 #178
LostOne4Ever Apr 2018 #183
Trumpocalypse Apr 2018 #184
LostOne4Ever Apr 2018 #185
Trumpocalypse Apr 2018 #187
LostOne4Ever Apr 2018 #192
Trumpocalypse Apr 2018 #194
LostOne4Ever Apr 2018 #195
Trumpocalypse Apr 2018 #196
LostOne4Ever Apr 2018 #197
Trumpocalypse Apr 2018 #198
LostOne4Ever Apr 2018 #209
Trumpocalypse Apr 2018 #210
LostOne4Ever Apr 2018 #212
Trumpocalypse Apr 2018 #215
ehrnst Apr 2018 #176
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #177
ehrnst Apr 2018 #179
G_j Apr 2018 #214
TeamPooka Apr 2018 #180
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #182
TheSmarterDog Apr 2018 #181
McCamy Taylor Apr 2018 #186
Sancho Apr 2018 #188
bluestarone Apr 2018 #189
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #191
lanlady Apr 2018 #190
Awsi Dooger Apr 2018 #193
Bucky Apr 2018 #199
CatMor Apr 2018 #201
KPN Apr 2018 #206
annabanana Apr 2018 #213

Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 01:59 PM

1. Pretty strong support here, but unquestioning? unconditional?

Nah, I'll save that for family, some friends and my precious pup.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:02 PM

3. Not me, I am afraid of Nazis so for now I will support NO MATTER WHAT

I dont have the luxury of questioning at the moment, my gay friends dont, my black friends dont, my women friends who need reproductive rights dont.

One person in our party has NO power, none, nada, NOTHING

But that ONE SEAT can be the difference between the PARTY having TOTAL Power vs NONE

Nah, not now, people will DIE if I insist my personal checklist be adhered to, by the way my personal checklist is more left than ANY progressive I have EVER met.

MATH

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #3)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:06 PM

6. you presume that we can unquestioningly take a candidate's word for it...

How many times has someone claimed party affiliation and then do a 180 when they get into office?

I'm certainly not suggesting anything but a DEM vote in the general, but I think we do need to be cautious in the primary. Otherwise, why would Republicans not simply use our "unquestioning" blind allegiance to gain office as a "DEMOCRAT"?

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #6)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:07 PM

7. Forget it.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #7)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:08 PM

8. Excuse me? Can you not have a constructive discussion?

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #8)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:09 PM

9. Going out of your way to presume someone is going to run as a democrat then switch parties?

is THAT what you are saying?

That happens how often? So the alternative is let the registered republican win?

THINK about this please

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:11 PM

13. I'm saying Republicans can and do take advantage of "unquestioning loyalty to label/affiliation" on

occasion.

How foolish would you feel if a Republican strategy to run as Democrats was revealed in your region? Yet, you voted for them because in the primary they were deemed to have the best chance?

Very few things in life should be "unquestioned"

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #13)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 01:33 PM

202. 'But her e-mails'

And "establishment".
Got us to where we are today,
the most unethical corrupt
Horror show in American history.
It boils down to this.
Either vote democrat or enjoy the chaos
And fascism that maggot freely offers.

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Response to MFM008 (Reply #202)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 01:38 PM

203. Back it up... we are talking primary. Not General. Thus Republicans only enter into discussion

if they are "rat-f...king" the primary

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:42 PM

39. It has happened --

 

specifically in Texas not all that long ago. Rabid Tea Party type posed as a Dem and even created ads claiming to be a Democrat. I don't put it past them to do similar things elsewhere.

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Response to RandomAccess (Reply #39)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:52 PM

54. And they were caught too.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 10:22 PM

143. Take a look at Hawaii. We have heaps of people in office who run with a D behind their names

And vote against the Democratic Party platform consistently.

Only very rarely can we throw them out of the party.

But I appreciate and respect where youíre coming from.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #9)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 04:48 PM

211. Don't support anything unconditionally, but

it's just not a problem with the Democratic Party these days.

Our party will not endorse a genuinely bad/crooked candidate, the kind we wouldn't personally. Amaf, the party's taken a lot of attacks when it has sought to cull candidates with ethical problems, possibly scandals, and/or legal problems by people who foolishly assume their morals must be far better than the party leadership's and don't bother to wonder what and why.

And any candidate the Democratic Party (us!) does endorse these days is far, far, far better than anyone who's hoping to join or stay part of the villainous Republican caucuses.

With the moral collapse of the GOP, WE are the defenders of our republic and the rights of the people. There are no others to turn to.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #7)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:26 PM

20. Omfg..too

 

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Response to Wwcd (Reply #20)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:27 PM

22. And I am trying, I am being nice, I am not screaming at people. I want to though

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #22)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:39 PM

34. Because some of us are wary of the worst of REPUG strategies and thus remain skeptical? Really?

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #22)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:48 PM

48. Did we learn NOTHING in 2016?

 

I screamed it for you.

Intentional Division is what allowed Trump to hand the keys to America to a fascist dictator.

Solidarity is the ONLY way to remove the RW from power in our gov't.

Study the history books.
SOLIDARITY is the only way fascism has ever been stopped.
Its pretty simple.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #22)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 09:20 PM

138. Got your back Eliot....................

Count me in................

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Response to Wwcd (Reply #20)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:38 PM

33. for heaven sakes, Wwcd, we all have brains and we surely OUGHT to use them

rather than slam them into a wall.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #33)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 03:20 PM

76. For heavens sakes, See post 7.

 

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Response to Wwcd (Reply #76)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 03:31 PM

79. gotcha

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #6)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:31 PM

27. i agree

and said as much down thread. republicans cannot be trusted, not even to not be masquerading as democrats.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #6)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:11 PM

88. No candidate is going to come out of the dark and be in the running for a nomination....

....without us knowing anything about him/her or their positions on many of the issues.

Let's say there are two Democrats facing each other in a primary in a conservative district, one quasi-"conservative" (i.e., not "pure) and the other very liberal.

If we know the "quasi" candidate could win the seat and we know the liberal has zero chance of winning the seat, I want to see that guy that I agree with 50% in that seat than the guy that I agree with 95% of the time giving a concession speech on the night of the election.

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Response to George II (Reply #88)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 06:51 PM

124. I agree.

Well said, George.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 08:59 PM

129. I guess you are right, maybe you need to keep open mind and vote republican sometimes

Don't worry we won't tell.

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Response to XRubicon (Reply #129)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 09:03 PM

130. I NEVER have nor would I vote Republican. THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID & you damned well know it

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #130)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 09:04 PM

131. Oh, sorry. who else other than a democrat would you vote for?

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Response to XRubicon (Reply #131)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 09:07 PM

132. If you damned well bothered to read the post I was responding to this was a primary question

and no, I will not thoughtlessly vote for the Dem who may have the better chance in the general IF they are not a REAL Democrat. So, THAT would be advocating voting for a REPUBLICAN. AND, TO DO SO THAT THOUGHTLESSLY AND WITHOUT REAL CONSIDERATION IS BEYOND FOOLISH.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #132)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 09:15 PM

134. "Every UNCONDITIONAL supporter of the Democratic Party, step forward!"

First, why did you "step forward"? Clearly you don't support the party.

Second, name one "fake" democrat that is worse than any republican.

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Response to XRubicon (Reply #134)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 09:20 PM

137. i HAVE BEEN HERE SINCE THE BEGINNING AND i HAVE NOTHING TO EXPLAIN TO YOU!

YOU CLEARLY WANT TO DISRUPT. FORGET IT

SHAME ON YOU

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #137)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 09:27 PM

139. I vote for democrats.

No time for tepid support or hand holding the easily distracted.


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Response to XRubicon (Reply #139)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 09:35 PM

140. do you?

hmmm. One might wonder why you are opposed to THINKING, EVALUATING, and DISCRIMINATING between primary candidates.

If you are that incapable or unwilling to do so, then you COULD be readily fooled. You really ought to consider that, given how desperate Republicans are to keep their majority.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:01 PM

2. At this point in time, yes. But not always

So I guess I'm a no.

If we were comfortably in control, I would feel more free to vote my conscious. In the desperate straits we are currently, I will vote for the Democratic candidate that I think will win.

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Response to hueymahl (Reply #2)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:03 PM

4. OF COURSE I mean at this point in time

I didnt think I needed to add that, but I will

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:03 PM

5. I vote for Democrats. I support Democrats. I am a proud member of the Democratic Party

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Response to mcar (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 09:11 AM

146. Same here, I'll never support ANY candidate or politician who is not a DEMOCRAT!!

There are simply no two ways about it.

I'll always support the DEMOCRAT.
I'll ONLY support the DEMOCRAT.





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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:09 PM

10. I'm a Dem. I support Dems. I vote for Dems. Unconditionally.

Even if they call Jimi Hendrix "a guitar player" instead of "a player of guitar."

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Response to Binkie The Clown (Reply #10)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:10 PM

11. Speaking of, did you know Jim Morrison was overeating and drinking

in France before he died so much so that he gained lots of weight, didnt look anything like himself and in fact died of that as well as drugs?

I didnt know that.

Jimi's death wasnt as simple as I was led to believe either.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #11)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:43 PM

40. Yeah, that's only been known since like 1971

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #40)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 01:24 PM

200. I didn't know that. Thanks for posting,


...even if you drifted off topic a little bit

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:10 PM

12. We're at war, so that's where I'm at right now

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #12)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:11 PM

14. Great way of putting it, thanks

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #12)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 01:39 PM

204. Exactly

....

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:11 PM

15. Same I'll nitpick later, after we've won and fixed some shit, but right now it's too important.

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #15)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:12 PM

16. Common sense then appeals to you, good.

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #15)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:52 PM

55. nitpick

 

women's rights, the environment and labor issues are nitpicking now? Pretty sad.

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Response to melman (Reply #55)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:55 PM

57. Where did I say any of that?

I said I'll vote for any Dem vs any Repuke or Ind.

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Response to melman (Reply #55)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 06:57 AM

145. I don't know how many times I've said this lately - a moderate Democrat in office is MUCH better....

....than a conservative republican.

So let's say there are two Democrats facing each other in a primary in a conservative district, one moderate (i.e., not "pure) and the other very liberal.

If we know the moderate candidate could win the seat and we know the liberal has zero chance of winning the seat, I want to see the guy that I agree with 50% of the time in that election than the guy that I agree with 95% of the time giving a concession speech on the night of the election.

Which of those two Democrats would you prefer to be running in the General election?

Yes, if you feel that supporting a Democrat who agrees with half of what I'd like to see get elected than getting an office holder that agrees with none of what I'd like to see is "nitpicking", then I'll nitpick until I'm blue in the face.

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Response to melman (Reply #55)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 09:28 AM

148. Since when have Democrats been against women's rights, the environment

and labor issues?? This looks like yet another diversion into the Alternate Universe agenda where Democrats are accused of those lies. Who would do that??

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #148)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:36 PM

161. How about reading the OP

 

That might help.

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Response to melman (Reply #161)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:40 PM

163. You are the one who should read it.

You should read the OP.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #163)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:41 PM

164. I did read it

 

From your posts it is quite evident that you did not.

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Response to melman (Reply #164)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:48 PM

167. You obviously did not understand it if you did read it.

None of your observations fit. You are trying to make it about supposedly unfit Democrats ó purity standards.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #167)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:51 PM

169. Nope

 

the OP clearly states in plain English that if a 'candidate is anti choice, anti labor, anti environment' they will 'still vote for him'

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Response to melman (Reply #169)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:57 PM

170. This is a contrived umbrage. Bernie has supported candidates

and even praises Trump for appealing to anti-environment labor groups, as well as anti-choice candidates. This is common knowledge. The OP is saying vote for who can win in the region they come from. It is not saying that is part of the Democratic platform.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #170)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 02:00 PM

171. 'It is not saying that is part of the Democratic platform.'

 

I didn't fucking say it did.

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Response to melman (Reply #171)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 02:08 PM

172. Trying to wrench socialist ideals into certain parts

of the country isnít going to work. First things first. We need to face reality.

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #15)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 03:05 PM

66. It is honestly the only way to salvage the future of this country

 

This first, then work to make America what the repubs have constantly fought to keep from us.

There is nothing without removing the RW problem first.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:12 PM

17. Here. There is no other choice. nt

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #17)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:29 PM

24. Wanna know what is REAL SCARY? Even scarier than GET OUT?

That I have a single person here NOT agreeing with me.

THAT should scare you to DEATH

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #24)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:58 PM

58. There are a few "Vote my principles" types in hiding.

I really wonder what are principles, exactly, when a semi load of shit is being dumped on our heads and we have a stark raving madman leading the country.

To the "vote my principles" types, how about helping us save the damned country? Once we are back on solid ground, we can have a serious and principled discussion about the best way forward.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #58)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:07 PM

85. Fortunately this board, as far as I know is ONLY for people who will ONLY and ALWAYS vote

for Democrats.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #85)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:32 PM

94. It was slightly before your time

But we did have some members of a group advocating "vote issue over party" on their pet issue in the 2016 GE. They promoted two republicans by name over their Democratic opponents. I don't recall the second, but I do remember that they supported Kirk over Sen. Tammy Duckworth.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:22 PM

18. I support the democratic party

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #18)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:24 PM

19. You forgot something

I support the democratic party.



fixed it for ya.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:27 PM

21. that's scary

 

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:29 PM

23. we're in perilous times

so i would have to say I am. having said that, i would definitely want to be well informed in races where there's a choice between 2 or more Democrats. I don't put ANYTHING past republicans including switching parties to maintain power.

i never vote for a republican, never. since gw it's so important to me not to vote for a republican that i will sit out non partisan races if i can't get a feel for the candidates' politics. i think that may be an extreme position but it reflects how much i fucking hate republicans and what they have done to this country and to the state (NC) in which i live.

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Response to barbtries (Reply #23)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:30 PM

26. This is a situation where cons could be tricky and get a candidate past us, for sure.

Have to take our chances, but since the house is on fire, actual fire, we do have to do what we do have to do.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #26)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:51 PM

52. They don't really have to be all that tricky

 

when you've already declared you'll vote for them not matter what. I mean when you've already decided women't rights, labor issues and the environment don't matter, when you've said there is literally no issue that would make you vote against a candidate that has a 'better chance'....then how much do they really have to hide? Where exactly does this trickiness come in?

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:30 PM

25. I'm a 98%-er-I still wouldn't Vote an Incompetent, Unethical or Racist Democrat

...and I've voted for a Republican in limited situations especially with regard to Judges since I'm a litigating attorney--but that's never been necessary at the Federal/State office level which is where the math equation really is important

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Response to Stallion (Reply #25)


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:32 PM

28. Strong supporter? Yes. Unconditional? No.

Look at Trump voters. I will never be like them.

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Response to IluvPitties (Reply #28)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:50 PM

49. Well such loyalty translates into winning...and then these pugs get to see their agenda move forward

and we don't.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #49)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 03:06 PM

69. Questioning is fundamental for democracy.

Total and unconditional support can enable tyranny.

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Response to IluvPitties (Reply #69)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 10:20 AM

156. There won't be any democracy if we don't start winning...fundamental or otherwise.

The Republicans are way more likely to impose tyranny than any Democrat. In fact look at the states they are in charge of...so vote Democratic as if your life and our democracy depends on it because it does.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:33 PM

30. I agree.

At this point in time, yes.

My only deviation, at this point in time, would be if the district is blue to the core, a guaranteed safe seat.

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Response to murielm99 (Reply #30)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:35 PM

31. OK, but even then anything we SAY that others hear like

" I will do it but I have to hold my nose"

well you see that DETERS people from voting...

So the safe bet is support.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #31)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:40 PM

36. I can't stand the nose holders!

The only reason I qualified this at all was the Lipinski primary. I would have voted for his opponent in the primary had I lived there.

Lipinski is absolutely safe. He has an opponent this time, a genuine Nazi and holocaust denier.

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Response to murielm99 (Reply #36)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:42 PM

38. Thanks, imagine what happens when you are out to dinner with a group of people, there is

this couple who are not political, rarely vote.

The other couples are talking about how bad one candidate is but the other one isnt much better, they will probably vote but they will not only hold their nose but they go on and on about how bad this candidate is.

What do people think the RESULTS of that dinner is? Two NON votes.


Multiply that by 50 states and about 50,000 dinners or social events per state where this occurs. Dinners, gatherings, grocery store lines, etc.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:37 PM

32. I do not need another one of your loyalty tests.

From three weeks ago:

Why does unconditional support of the D party bother some?

Number one, I do not recall putting you in charge of telling me what to think, and

Number two, the word you're looking for is not "math," it's "arithmetic."

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Reply #32)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:48 PM

47. I applaud those who try to rally the troop and elect Democrats. I don't quite understand why this

is offensive to you.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #47)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 03:05 PM

67. That is the 1,000.00 question.



only!

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Response to revmclaren (Reply #67)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 10:18 AM

155. Vote Democratic always. There is never a time for doing anything else. Only party loyalty from

Democrats (the true base) will stop Republicans...I define 'true base' as those who can be counted on to vote Democratic in every election including midterms and who don't write about 'holding' their noses when voting on social media.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #155)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 12:28 PM

159. Agree 100 percent.

Only!

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Reply #32)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 06:02 PM

122. This is the best response...

to the horse hockey we are being given here. I don't think Hectoring for Votes is a viable strategy.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:39 PM

35. Here's the problem with your question --

 

and I almost didn't bother clicking through to read your OP because of it.

The phrase "unconditional support" has a strong authoritarian flavor, and I'm allergic to authoritarian, esp. since I'm getting so damned much of it in my diet these days anyway.

But when I read your OP, you're not asking about unconditional SUPPORT, you're asking about unwavering unconditional VOTES. Big fucking difference.

Yes, I can't conceive of EVER voting for a Republican, nor really any Libertarian or Green. So yeah, any Dem is going to have my vote over anything else. That's without knowing a single thing about them.

But unconditional support -- as in no criticism, no pushback, no lobbying and even protest? OH HELL NO. Republicans are the ones who are hive mind people, not me.

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Response to RandomAccess (Reply #35)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:45 PM

44. Others hear the criticism...even if ultimately you vote for the Democrat others may not.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #44)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:48 PM

46. I think that's an overwrought concern, personally, esp.

 

since I'm not out in public criticizing Democrats or anyone else for that matter.

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Response to RandomAccess (Reply #46)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 03:05 PM

65. I was thinking of social media.

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Response to RandomAccess (Reply #35)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:50 PM

51. That's not even what they said

They stated that if there is a choice between two democrats, and one is perceived to be more electable in the general election than the other, they will vote for the candidate that doesn't hold alot of democratic values instead of the one that does, IN THE PRIMARY.

Sorry, in the primary, I vote for the candidate that most reflects my positions.

It's never wrong to do the right thing.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:42 PM

37. All in, Elliot

 

Stop helping Republicans get elected.


It will take complete Solidarity to remove the RW fascist cancer in our govt & rapidly spreading across our country.

Solidarity is what has defeated & kept this demon in it's box throughout world history.

There's no other way to stop it today, either

Solidarity.


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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:43 PM

41. Unquestioning and unconditional...we need to win in 18 and 20 or we are toast.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:44 PM

42. I vote on the issues.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #42)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:44 PM

43. uh huh

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #42)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:47 PM

45. There is no issue that a Republican is better on than a Democrat...and since Greens are just

spoilers...I vote for the party period. You need a majority to turn issues into legislation.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #45)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:50 PM

50. The primaries are the time we get to tell our Party what direction we think it should be going.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #50)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 03:03 PM

64. I am pretty sure you know my position on primarying a sitting Democrat when the house is on fire.

It is a waste of time and money...I make an exception for Lipinski.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #64)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 03:07 PM

71. Each of us has our own method of voting. That's why we still have a free country.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #71)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 06:36 PM

123. That is right.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #42)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 08:56 PM

128. So you vote for republicans sometimes?

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Response to XRubicon (Reply #128)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 09:51 PM

142. Did I say that?

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:52 PM

53. You really ought to remove Planned Parenthood from your sig

 

Don't you think? I mean, if you are going to advocate voting for ant-choice candidates and all.

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Response to melman (Reply #53)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 03:01 PM

61. You know what ...when I first moved to Ohio... I was very unhappy to find out that Tim Ryan

was pro-life. He was my only choice so obviously I voted for Ryan and not a Republican because despite his personal views with Democrats in charge, there will be no attempt to take down planned parenthood or end a woman's right to choose but with the GOP in charge there would be. I voted for the party. Ryan has since changed his stance.

I had a life threatening miscarriage which rendered me infertile some years ago and almost killed me...my doctor was pro-life and was at fault so I feel strongly about choice. Electing Republicans endangers a woman's right to choose . We have several pro-life in the Democratic Party right now. I don't agree with them, but I would vote for them as I did for Tim Ryan. And I think you are being unfair to Elliot because one thing is for sure, if the GOP wins in 18 and 20...we lose planned parenthood and Roe V Wade as the courts shift right for a generation. Perhaps it is time we all think of the big picture while we still can.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #61)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 03:03 PM

63. No I am not being unfair

 

Read the OP.

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Response to melman (Reply #53)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 07:40 PM

125. Agreed. n/t

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 02:53 PM

56. Count me in

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 03:01 PM

59. Absolutely!

As do my family and friends. Anyone in my life who has said no or voted against democrats in 2016 are no longer in my life. Can't trust them, don't need them.

ONLY!

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 03:01 PM

60. The only thing I do unconditionally

is love my family. Sorry, I don't really go for patriotism either.

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Response to HopeAgain (Reply #60)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 01:51 PM

205. Family doesnt get a pass

My sisters boyfriend is a t-humper.
Hes out.
I dont even want a discussion about supporting this monster.
There is NO issue the gop is better than us on.
From day one of my life--
I grew up watching my dad leave the house
For 23 years wearing a USAF uniform (till 1973),
I believe in that kind of patriotism.
The saving America from republican
Fascist bullshit kind.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 03:03 PM

62. First, we vote Democrats into office, then better Democrats into office...

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Response to FM123 (Reply #62)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 03:12 PM

72. 'better Democrats'

 

Right. When we have the 'luxury of criticism'.

Because obviously when that happens we won't have people like the OP haranguing us about how voting for an anti-choice, anti-labor, anti-environment candidate was what it took to get that seat, and we can't afford to lose it so better to not rock the boat..etc etc etc.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 03:06 PM

68. To borrow a few words from Pete Seeger....

 

Solidarity Forever!

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Response to ollie10 (Reply #68)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 03:17 PM

75. Remind ourselves that we are not the first to fight back in solidarity for human rights.

 

We can do it again.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 03:07 PM

70. So no litmus test

Abortion?
Economy?
Environment?
Guns?
Labor?
Women's rights?

None at all, just need a (D)?

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #70)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:01 PM

81. I was thinking the same thing...

 



Some might say, this is how we got here...

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 03:13 PM

73. Count me in! I always vote for the Democrat.

Where I live in California, it's normally easy to figure out which candidates deserve my support.........and which ones don't.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 03:17 PM

74. My support for the Democrats was pretty strong even

before this orange-colored plague entered our lives, but now if is unconditional, and will continue to be so until Trumpism is destroyed.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 03:30 PM

77. I AM!

Any Democrat is worth more thsn ANY Republicon.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 03:30 PM

78. We have a 2 party system. One party is trying to kill

My Country and all of its institutions. The other party is the Democratic Party. The chance to save the Country from evil rests only with the democratic party. I canít forsee any circumstances where I would support a repug over a Democratic candidate in the present or in the foreseeable future.

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Response to bronxiteforever (Reply #78)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:08 PM

86. And not voting or voting 3rd means you ARE voting for the NAZIS

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #86)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 05:23 PM

116. Yes-agree totally, apathy kills too.

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Response to bronxiteforever (Reply #116)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 05:25 PM

117. The house is 217 dems 217 gop

The democratic candidate is a far right blue dog, the GOP candidate is, well, GOP.

Who to vote for in this situation should not be complicated


(not telling you this, I am just on a roll)

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #117)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 05:33 PM

118. Its all good.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 03:47 PM

80. I support Democrats in general but there is no such thing as unconditional support.

Trump called himself a Democrat once upon a time. Now I believe he was lying at the time and the gross majority of Democrats are nothing like him. In general I believe Democrats are "who they say they are." Perhaps I am just skeptical by nature but I attempt to find out who I am voting for. I always intend to vote right down the party line and with some exceptions, I have done just that... but still I tend to trust but verify,

doveryai; no proveryai

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:02 PM

82. I can't remember a single republican or independent over the last 40 years

that I would have preferred over a Democrat.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:05 PM

83. Sign me up.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:06 PM

84. I will NEVER vote for a republican ever!

My husband and son feel the same way. 3 no votes for rethugs in our family.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:08 PM

87. Un-effing-conditional!

2016 showed us what "a competitive primary" delivers.

Stop telling us what is wrong with the Democrat!

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:12 PM

89. Count me in

I will never be a Sarandon-ista.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:13 PM

90. With key caveat included in your OP, at this time, YES, and for near future too. . . . nt

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #90)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:17 PM

92. This too?

UNCONDITIONAL support, I mean to say that if there are two candidates running for a house seat in the D party and one of them is KNOWN to have a better shot at winning in November than the other but said candidate is anti choice, anti labor, anti environment, well guess what, because I understand MATH, I still vote for him.


good for you

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #92)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:50 PM

101. Within reason. If all 3 antis, then they are same as Republicon. With 2, yeah go for it.


I understand your point about a D vote is not an R vote, but if the candidate is all three antis, then they would probably vote with Trump and the Republicons and against impeachment.

And I think your drift is that voting against Trump and for impeachment is the key.



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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #101)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 05:14 PM

114. Any person with a D after their name giving you seat # 218, even if they are SATAN

is preferable to anyone else because?

If you know the answer to that then you understand my point.

I wonder if people realize the party with 218 decides everything about everything and the party with 217 decides nothing, ever, not once, never ever?

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #114)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 10:52 AM

158. Since SATAN is likely to vote with the Republicans,

Your arithmetic isn't destiny. The party with 218 only controls everything IF all 218 vote together.

I will not vote for SATAN in the primary, even if SATAN has a better chance of winning the general election because, if elected, SATAN will not give us 218 votes. D or no D behind his name.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:14 PM

91. Absolutism denies rational thought.

 

Absolutism denies rational thought; but there is small comfort in realizing not all irrational votes will be cast for the GOP.




"But we don't have the luxury of rational thought!!!!"

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:22 PM

93. Hand raised!!!

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:43 PM

95. Always and forever.

And my commitment has become even stronger starting in the W administration.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:44 PM

96. The only thing I don't question is the power of love, baby

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Response to JackInGreen (Reply #96)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:50 PM

100. Dont mention "love" and then NOT commit to removing the nazis, please dont do that

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:44 PM

97. Sorry.

 

IF there is an alternative, I am not going to vote for anti-environment anti-union, no matter the party. Really sorry, but I do not vote for Republicans who are running in Democratic races. I just don't. If we are to stand for anything, we must stand for something.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:49 PM

98. We have the choice to fight like barn cats during . . .

the primaries. For instance, the contest between Cordray or Kucinich. My money would be on Cordray if I were a Dem from Ohio. Cordray has a much better chance of taking the Governor's seat though he's been branded with the red hot ESTABLISHMENT signature. Consequently, he has the support and the funds from traditional Democrats.

Kucinich on the other hand--presumably a progressive firebrand--has positively gone off the rails, actually complimenting Trump on his ridiculous Inauguration speech and claiming the Trumpster is trying to unite the country. Say what????? Republicans can barely contain their enthusiasm for a Kucinich primary win.

This contest doesn't actually fit your scenario, Eliot. But I think it illustrates the choice mechanism--we choose the strongest candidate, the one more likely to win. However, even if the strongest candidate does not win the primary, we run with the person who bears a 'D' on their forehead.

Because Math, because the number of rear ends we seat is equivalent to the voice volume we shall have following the November elections.

At this moment in time, it truly is all about the numbers.

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Response to peggysue2 (Reply #98)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:51 PM

103. The party with 218 seats decides EVERYTHING THIS NATION DOES

, THE PARTYwith 217 decides NOTHING

yes, you are right

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:50 PM

99. Yeah...

Pretty much a "yellow dog" now.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:51 PM

102. The faulty premise underlying

 

this unequivocal declaration of Democratic Party loyalty is that this statement reflects dogma, NOT LOYALTY.

and one of them is KNOWN to have a better shot at winning in November


So long as it is "known" that milquetoast centrist have a better chance of winning (despite that dogma leading to our demise ever since it was introduced in 1992), all you are saying is "I will vote for even a anti-choice CENTRIST"

Loyalty to a failed political theory is destroying our party.

Remove the b.s. premise that elections are won in the middle and the fiercest leftist is NO DIFFERENT THAN the fiercest "Forward-ist."

None of us want Republicans to win and a lot of us are tired of the incessant accusations that some of us do.

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Response to GaryCnf (Reply #102)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 09:41 AM

150. To quote Bill Maher

 

Learn the difference between an imperfect friend and a mortal enemy.

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Response to GaryCnf (Reply #102)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 03:10 PM

207. +1111!

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:55 PM

104. In the next couple of elections, it is essential

and may as well hold off the criticism due to its discouragement value. We can do that later, after we have saved the country from the right.

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Response to treestar (Reply #104)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:56 PM

105. Some well meaning people underestimate the power of criticism when heard

by people who are leaning toward not voting.

Would I be critical of the party in normal times?

Oh god, most people here would consider me a revolutionary Socialist.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #105)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 05:39 PM

119. Yes, I'm for all kinds of things but

there is no point in insisting on them when there are enough Republicans to win - we have to make common cause with somebody and if it is the "corporatist" Democrats, then fine. Someday there may be a chance for single payer, but for now, we obviously have to defend the ACA from repeal (even though it's a Heritage Foundation idea, yadda yadda). So holding out on Democrats for not being far left enough will only get undoing of what progress was made.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #105)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 03:14 PM

208. 180: some well meaning people here underestimate

the power of criticism when heard by people who are leaning toward not voting.

You see it negatively (taking away votes), others see it positively (bringing in more votes).

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:57 PM

106. you lost me at unconditional.

then i read the rest. I'm with you until this fire is out.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 04:59 PM

107. That's me, but to be fair, I've only voted for one Republican in my life & I've been voting

since 1976. He was my Representative first in MI-5 and then in MI-3 after redistricting. Justin Amash is currently infesting that seat. His name was Paul B. Henry and he died of a malignant brain tumor in 1993. He was one of the last of the principled, Eisenhower Republicans, but it's how he personally responded to his constituents that made me vote for him. He was a very decent man.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 05:01 PM

108. And then we have Gov. Justice WV - Aug, 2017 -

West Virginia governor, a Democrat, to switch to Republican Justice told about 9,000 Trump supporters at a rally in Huntington that he will be changing his registration Friday.

I'm sure there are more, just the most recent....

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Response to asiliveandbreathe (Reply #108)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 05:07 PM

111. So what, unless you know for a FACT they are going to do this, you have to vote for them

Finding the one excuse that RARELY happens to not vote Dem should not be what I am seeing here...sigh

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #111)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 05:16 PM

115. I'm not saying to NOT vote Dem..of course you never know what evil

lurks in the minds of men (figuratively of course) - I am born and raised in Massachusetts..never had to think about politicians switching party after winning an election...Mass. 2nd most liberal state (commonwealth) behind Wash DC..

In todays environment, with the war on everyone, for every reason an evil man can think of, I understand, as most Dems do, that we CANNOT afford even one less vote...

Always vigilant -

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 05:02 PM

109. Way ahead of you buddy

Always the D.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 05:02 PM

110. Yes! This is an emergency

Look at what happened in the LAST emergency (Nov 2016), when some people diddled,whined, pouted, voted 3rd party, didn't vote at all, even voted for the devil, because the most qualified person to run for president wasn't pure enough for them. I still hold them in contempt and always will.

It doesn't HAVE to be that way this time. If even a small percentage of those people realize what they've done and vote for the DEMOCRAT, we'll win big. In addition, there must be some non-stupid Trump voters who are awakening from their stupor and realizing that they've been had. We need to convince them, too, to vote Democratic, for their own good.

Those of us who are DEMOCRATS need to put aside demands for perfection that never comes and always, ALWAYS, vote for the Democratic candidate. In primaries, vote for the candidate who can actually win, whether it's a left of center, progressive, or anything else along the liberal scale. Because your demands don't matter now. We have a country to save.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 05:12 PM

112. Never. Someone needs to prove theyre a Liberal. Actions matter, not party.

If a Republican pledged to promote and continued to promote Liberal ideals and causes and a Democrat didnít, I would support the Republican.

I draw the line at being pro-Trump, anti-abortion, anti-LGBT, or misogynistic. Sorry, but I will never support anyone who is any of those things, regardless of their party affiliation. I think thatís a pretty reasonable standard. If winning means welcoming arch-Conservatives into our party, then I donít want to win.

To me, you can call yourself a Democrat, but you need to act like one too!

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Response to Oneironaut (Reply #112)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 09:42 AM

151. Well I hope you feel good

 

sitting on the high horse of your principles while the GOP destroys the country.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #151)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:34 PM

160. If winning means electing people who are no different than the GOP, then whats the point?

Do you really think it would better to elect a Governor who, for example, is against Roe vs. Wade? The people in that state still need to deal with them. If theyíre going to vote with Republicans anyways, whatís the point of voting for them?

Also, at a time where minority groups are constantly under attack, someone who wants bathroom bills, draconian ICE raids, or Muslim bans is not a Democrat. Iíd rather eat my vote than waste it on a fake Democrat who pledges to attack our partyís principles.

Iíll concede that Iím willing to overlook a lot. However, some things are beyond what I would call acceptable. I wouldnít call Lieberman a real Democrat (when he was one), for example. Voting for someone like him is no different than voting for a Republican.

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Response to Oneironaut (Reply #160)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 02:12 PM

173. Yes it is

 

Voting for a Dem is helping the Dems control the agenda in Congress. That's a big difference. On the state and local level it is determining who will draw the district lines after the next census. There is a much bigger picture here than a bunch of ideological litmus tests. And to quote Bill Maher, "Learn the difference between an imperfect friend and a deadly enemy".

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 05:14 PM

113. History is replete with regimes that demanded ultimate loyalty. Anyone with the ability to think

independent thoughts and use common sense would reject unconditional loyalty requirements.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 05:58 PM

120. In my 46 years of voting I have always voted for the Democratic candidate.

An imperfect Democrat is still better than any Republican and I've never bought the Big Lie that there is no difference between the 2 parties because for me there has ALWAYS been enough of a difference to support the Democrat. If I don't support the Democratic candidate then I am helping the Republican candidate because the winner in virtually every race is going to be one or the other. If more voters on the Left grasped this concept, Trump would never have been elected in the first place.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 05:58 PM

121. 100%

Fight fire with fire.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 07:45 PM

126. Can't imagine not voting for a Democratic general election candidate UNLESS

they were a Dixiecrat or something similar. Doubt they'd make it through primary in that case.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #126)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 09:18 PM

136. Well according to the OP

 

If that hypothetical Dixiecrat had a better chance of winning then you must vote for them in that primary.

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Response to melman (Reply #136)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 09:44 PM

141. I get it, but luckily havent had that decision in decades. Id probably write in another

Democratís name.

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Response to melman (Reply #136)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 09:36 AM

149. The OP is saying not to throw your vote away. You keep trying to overthink it so

it excuses the deliberate acts of certain groups who actively work against Democrats who aren't socialists. Socialism will be shunned in many parts of this country -- those are the facts. All or nothing usually means nothing -- basic concepts here.

Great OP!

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #149)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:39 PM

162. No

 

I am not overthinking. I read it and responded to what it actually says.

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Response to melman (Reply #162)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:43 PM

165. Yes you are overthinking it, and that is a kind

description.

It is saying that far-fetched idealism is no substitute for the actual process and system we have to work within. Reality. Many parts of the country are averse to socialism, and that is the reality of our system. Donít help Republicans.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #165)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:45 PM

166. No

 

I read it and understood what it actually says. This appears to be where we differ.

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Response to melman (Reply #166)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 01:50 PM

168. It looks like you are overthinking why you should

be upset about it. Purity standards are your concern, but the OP is talking about the reality of the process ó not idealism.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 08:34 PM

127. Woah

Settle down there McCarthy

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 09:13 PM

133. Yellow-Dog Democrat all the way. Except for phonys, like psycho-Sheriff David Clarke.

Other than such a crazy exception, I vote the straight Democratic ticket every time.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 09:16 PM

135. Only a Sith deals in absolutes

While I certainly don't anticipate voting any other way, no man or party has my unconditional support.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Wed Apr 4, 2018, 10:43 PM

144. I am with you

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 09:13 AM

147. That would be me!

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 09:48 AM

152. There have been a few times in my life when I have voted for a Republican candidate after

researching both, but that was ages ago. Now the only choice of hoping to have an honorable person holding an office is to vote straight Dem.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 09:51 AM

153. Is it blue dog or yellow dog?

Either way, if the D is in front of their name and they aren't Nazis pretending to be Democratic - as happened recently - I will ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS vote for the D. I'm mid 60s and have voted in every election since I was eligible and have never knowingly voted for a repug. Judges make me nervous because you often don't know if they are rw'ers or not. Guess I will have to start researching them more thoroughly to ensure no trumper gets my vote.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 09:54 AM

154. I'm voting for the democratic candidate in any election

 

We can fight about our favorites beforehand but I close ranks at election time.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 10:35 AM

157. They haven't made the Dem so corrupt that I would choose a Republican instead.

I would love for the GOP to start producing decent politicians and people again, but for the foreseeable future I guess I'm unconditionally Dem.

But this is a terrible state of affairs. Any party able to say "where else you gonna go?" to voters is going to wind up treating the people with contempt. We can see it happening on our side, but so far I can still honestly pick any Democrat over anyone the GOP is going to run.

We need to build better Republicans, so our Democrats will have something better to have to be better than.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 02:27 PM

174. This is just really stupid

Unconditional love? Sure. Unconditional support, of course not! Never have and never will. It's just a stupid thought. It's been stupid and despicable since long, long before "My country, right or wrong".

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 02:40 PM

175. Sorry, I am not a mindless zombie. Not for anyone.

That is the way of fascists and The Republican Party.

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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #175)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 04:47 PM

178. So in other words

 

you'd rather let the fascists and GOP keep winning elections and actually doing something to stop them.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #178)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 07:07 PM

183. In other words, I am not going to let them take over the Democratic Party as well

Only fascist, totalitarians, and the GOP demand or give such thoughtless obedience

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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #183)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 06:48 AM

184. To quote Bill Maher

 

"Learn the difference between an imperfect friend than a deadly enemy".

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #184)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 08:29 AM

185. Friends, imperfect or not, dont demand unconditional support

Only wannabe fascists and dictators like Trump do that.

As for your quote, This is NOT about not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. This is about the dangers of BLIND LOYALTY!!!

What the OP is saying is the antithesis of all forms of liberalism. He is saying that if the DEMOCRATIC PARTY BECAME WORSE THAN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY (and history shows that the parties can and have changed sides) they would still support them.

That is what UNCONDITIONAL SUPPORTER OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY MEANS!

I will never do that. I will always stand with civil rights and social freedom. If the Dems became the party they were prior to the civil war again, I would fight them as a Whig.

I only give unconditional support to my ideals and have nothing but contempt for those who would throw away human rights for a political party, right or wrong!

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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #185)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 05:18 PM

187. So how is the view up there

 

on your high horse. The rest of us down in the real world with fight to make it a better place. Don't worry about us. You can stay up there and feel superior.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #187)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 07:09 PM

192. In other words you got nothing

Sending out your bat signal to let all the others know you will accept whatever they say Like a good little lemming

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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #192)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 10:48 AM

194. No in other words

 

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #194)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 01:14 PM

195. Which is why it is important not to be zombies who give unconditional support to any party. Nt

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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #195)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 04:53 PM

196. Its more important to support those fighting evil

 

Than self righteously sitting on the sidelines feeling superior.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #196)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 09:17 PM

197. They are equally important and One can do both

But keep on making bad assumptions based on ignorance and what you want to believe about what people think. Very Trump like!

So much easier than actually trying understand others and make informed opinions based on facts!

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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #197)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 01:19 PM

198. A bad assumption is

 

Assuming that the Democrats are the same as Trumpís GOP and that we donít need to be unified to fight them. A bad assumption is that the same tried old litmus tests can be applied as the price of support to those fighting evil. That is true ignorance.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #198)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 03:57 PM

209. I never said any of that!

You have to put words into my mouth I have not said because you CANNOT address my actual arguments. I never said that todayís democrats are just as bad as the REPUBLICANS and that we donít need to unite to fight them. STRAW MAN! I said not a single word about litmus tests!

What I said, and stand behind, is that blind loyalty and unconditional support are wrong. That is a way to end up supporting someone who could easily turn the party into something worse than the GOP.

It has happened before.

While the Dems are definitely the better Party now, that is a change that is barely 60 years old.Democrats HAVE BEEN as bad as TRUMPís GOP in the past. Just look at the party prior to Wilson. They were worse than Trump! Slavery, Jim Crowe, Religious fundamentalism, etc. Conversely, the GOP used to be the party of Lincoln!

Then Wilson got elected, followed by Roosevelt and Kennedy. In less than 30 years later the parties had done a 180.

Asking for or giving unconditional support is pure fascism. The type of unthinking idiocy that Trump voters commit. It is saying that if it turned out that our candidate committed rape or something like that, that one would act like a Roy Moore/Trump voter and still vote the party line. That is what unconditional support means.

To rephrase what you told me just a few posts ago: Get off YOUR high horse! If you would quit acting like a demagogue and thought about what your arguing you would see how irrational it is.

But I suspect that you really donít care the implications of what you are arguing. You just want to prove to all your friends that you are on their side and will toe their ideological ďlitmus testĒ no matter how horrible what they are saying might be.

That is why you keep on accusing me of positions I never said.

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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #209)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 04:36 PM

210. I never said that you did.

 

I was making a statement and never made an accusation. I'm not the one making accusations here. As far as everything else, sounds like projection.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #210)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 04:54 PM

212. You never made an accusation? Let me refresh your memory:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10454165

So in other words
you'd rather let the fascists and GOP keep winning elections and actually doing something to stop them.


Projection? You canít project a position you are against

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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #212)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 07:28 PM

215. Thats not the same post

 

You accused me of making an accusation in this post: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10464638 Which I didnít. But nice try a deflection.

Now back to the main issue. There is only one political party that can effectively fight the evil of Trumpís GOP, the Democratic Party. And as imperfect as Democrats can be at times, we either support their fight against evil or we donít. But if we decide to make the perfect the enemy of the good and do nothing, then we are in directly supporting the evil.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 04:45 PM

176. I can support the party unconditionally, while having disagreements with others in the party

 

on strategy.

The Democratic party draws strength from an alliance of diverse groups.

Just like I can support my family unconditionally while disagreeing with some things some members do.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #176)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 04:47 PM

177. I do these threads every so often to see how many non party supporters there are

not as many lately , which is good.

I get a kick out of the ones who lecture me on why we need to criticize the party. I assume most lecturing me think they are very far to the left and that is why.



Oh god, if they only knew.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #177)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 04:48 PM

179. Perfectionism and obsessive compulsive reactions to any dissent

 

from a manifesto get in the way of human interactions, upon which progress depends.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #177)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 05:13 PM

214. Really?

Keeping track? Combined with the arguably authoritarian tinge of the OP, that just sounds kind of creepy.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 04:52 PM

180. This question is really: Do you have faith in the voters of the Democratic Party to not screw up

like the GOP did in 2016 by nominating a candidate who stands against everything they thought they stood for?
I do.

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Response to TeamPooka (Reply #180)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 04:53 PM

182. Me too

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Thu Apr 5, 2018, 04:52 PM

181. Here

 

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 08:31 AM

186. It's called yellow dog.

Bark.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 05:20 PM

188. I will vote for the Democratic candidate...

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 06:12 PM

189. count me in!!

Democrat all the way FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #189)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 06:43 PM

191. My office building is on fire and this friend of mine, Jasper, wants to decide

BEFORE we leave the building and put out the fire, what color to paint the walls when we repaint.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 06:41 PM

190. Been voting straight Dem my entire voting-age life

And always will.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 07:31 PM

193. I have never voted for a Republican and never will

 

I painstakingly research the non-partisan races to make sure I don't do it accidentally. When it is two dueling Republicans I skip the race.

I have to say I don't know very much about Bernie Sanders due to the simple fact he is not a Democrat. I watched only small snippets of those primary debates for that reason. I was locked in on Hillary and will never regret it.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 01:21 PM

199. I'm a questioning, critical, pragmatic, proud & loyal Democrat

I put my faith in people, not corporations, not money, not ideology. We're liberals because we want to do what works best for as many people as possible. That's not an ideology, that's a core belief

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 01:28 PM

201. I always have been and always will be.....

I have never voted any other way but Democrat.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 02:38 PM

206. I think your definition of unconditional oversimplifies the dynamics

of voting/voters today. Many voters are looking for "authenticity", genuine people, straight-forward talk as opposed to just shared positions on issues these days. Seems to me that has to be factored into which candidate might stand the best chance as well (which seems to be the standard in your "unconditional" construct). My two cents anyway.

As for answering your question, it won't be an issue for me as there aren't any challengers to the two Democrats who will be on the federal ballot in my State/District in 2018.

But my answer otherwise would be more along the lines, I'm okay with incumbents being primaried. If I lived in a red State, which I don't, I'm sure electability would be a strong criteria for me, but I might also define "electability" a bit differently than you depending on circumstances (the voters) in that particular State/District.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 05:06 PM

213. This cycle? Me. 100% dead dog dem. . . . .n/t

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