I just want to say, dressage doesn't bother me

[Scootaloo]

It's not something i'm particularly interested in, but I do think it's rather nice to watch. If someone wants to pay the money to have their horse trained to dance, then, well okay, more power to you. And i'm sure there's plenty of handling skill needed to direct the animal, all that. It falls under "neat" for me.

No, I have no problem with dressage, or for that matter any other "idle rich" leisure activity with or without horses.

My problem is that the Romneys - and probably a lot of other people who engage in the activity - have received a $77,000 tax write-off for this hobby. I can think of no way that this makes sense on any level, and to me, it certainly looks like two rich people getting richer because they're rich.

That's what I can't stomach here.

[hedgehog]

1. " two rich people getting richer because they're rich. "

[Marrah_G]

2. Thank you, that is my feeling as well

[elleng]

3. They have not RECEIVED a $77,000 write off;

they declared it, but IRS said NO, and only allowed them $49.00.

[Curtland1015]

5. Eh, it's a little murkier than that.

I'm not going to pretend to understand all the tax laws involved, but basically he's only getting $49 THIS year, with a chance of eventually getting it all back in small chunks if the horse does not end up making money.

...or something.

We have some really screwed up tax laws and rich people hire very smart people to get around them.

[elleng]

8. We certainly do have screwed up tax laws,

and one of the reasons he's unwilling to show us his returns may be for this very reason: HE, the very rich, is an EXPERT in taking advantage of them, and he doesn't want everyone to see what and how he does this.

[Seedersandleechers]

4. Do horses really like to dance?

And how do they train them to do that? Do they use whips or cause pain?

[antigone382]

6. No, dressage is about harmonious communication between horse and rider.

The movements are unusual but they are not beyond the capacity of the horses used in the competition. A major factor in competing successfully is the subtle way that the horse is carrying itself and sending signals that it is comfortable and attentive to its rider, rather than distracted by pain or annoyance.

[Seedersandleechers]

10. I found this: Modern dressage = abuse

The major points of abuse in so-called dressage are:

Riding unbalanced and uncollected horses in extremely limited spaces (dressage rings). Unbalanced + Limited Space = Navicular related lameness.
Forcing (driving - pushing) the horses to perform the requested tasks.
Unnecessary use of severe riding aids (spurs, curb bits (chains), whips), which in reality are the remnants of the military use of horses and are out of date in this day and age.
Working the horses on too hard surfaces. (see most TB racetracks for sufficient depth of riding surface).
Hard Surface + Limited Space = Navicular related lameness.
Too much training by most folks in the limited riding spaces.
Too many unqualified teachers and trainers.
Too many people trying to do what they do not understand and are not capable of doing.
The use of unsuitable horses for dressage/riding e.g. coldblooded horses or too heavy and/or too tall warmbloods.

http://horsemanpro.com/articles2/dressage_abuse.htm

[antigone382]

11. Those are all problems of improperly done dressage, and not the kind you would find in the Olympics.

You do not use harsh bits, "whips," or spurs to cause pain in professional dressage, and the entire principal of dressage is achieving balance and collection to preserve the health of the horse.

There are amateurs and hacks who try to do things beyond their skill, but their methods are bound to fail, because you can't fake genuinely harmonious communication between horse and rider at the top levels. I don't doubt that there are people who are incorrectly practicing dressage, but the discipline itself is concerned with generating a willingness on the part of the horse to do what its' rider is asking, precisely because it is comfortable and has built in trust with its rider.

[Seedersandleechers]

12. Okay I see your point.

Now I feel better the horses aren't abused.

[antigone382]

13. No problem. I think it's good that people are checking it out...

...many of the horse-related sports I loved as a child have lost their appeal because of the unfair demands made on the horse. I can't really watch horse racing anymore knowing what the horses go through, and living in Tennessee Walker country I am saddened to see that the horses are put in pain to get them to perform the appropriate "gaits." Dressage is one sport where I can take refuge knowing that the sport is judged largely based on the demeanor of the horse...perhaps there are abusive ways to fake that, but getting a horse to lie about its comfort level would seem to be a difficult task.

[magical thyme]

9. yes. horses going at that level love what they are doing

otherwise it would be too much work to bother with. Some of them respond to music; some don't.

The movements they perform are natural to them, performed at play in their pastures. They have simply learned to do them in response to a rider's subtle signals and restored their natural balance under the extra weight.

I had one rescue mare who loved music. It helped her find her rhythm.

My rescue gelding found music frustrating, so after a couple times playing some while we rode, I gave it up. He was a bit of a "control" freak (guy thing?) who wanted to control the tempo and wasn't happy trying to adjust his tempo slightly to match the music.

I suspect my current mare will like music, but we'll find that out later.

Riders are virtually unable to cause horses significant pain. The dressage whip is just an extension of your hand or leg, enabling you to reach a spot you couldn't otherwise reach. But any tools can be used correctly or badly.

Do some riders abuse? Yes...that is unfortunately true of all disciplines and all animal handling and training. Is it acceptable? No. And it won't get good results, especially in dressage. Abuse at a competition and you will be dismissed.

Horses are about 10 times a rider's size. They can hurt you badly by accident...or if they choose to get revenge. You can't really force them to do anything. They are fully able to say no.

Horses communicate in large part by nips, bites and kicks. Watch mares discipline their foals, or herds establish pecking orders. They can inflict damage on each other.

A 150 pound person against a 1500 pound horse? Any smack we give should the horse, say, step on our foot and not notice us screaming in pain, is at best a wake up call to catch their attention.

[aikoaiko]

7. Me either. I like a sausage-mushroom dressage with my turkey.

[dipsydoodle]

14. A note from Ann Romney

[Warpy]

15. While I can admire the perfect control a rider exerts over

an exquisitely trained animal, what bugs the hell out of me is the huge tax deduction Rmoney and other rich men get for their hobbies while working people have trouble meeting the >7.5% of their gross income to deduct their out of pocket health care expenses.

That's what galls me about this whole thing. The discipline is fine. Having working people forced to support it via a fat tax deduction is not.