Today my 84 year old very Dem dad told me that if he were younger

[BigmanPigman]

he would leave the US and move to New Zealand. I told him that I have read several posts on DU recently from people who have kids who are in their 20s and they are planning on leaving the country now due to the situation that our country is in and how it will most likely take 20 years (if ever) to undo what the GOP and the Moron has done to the country. The divisions and wounds may never heal and the country may never have the status that we did. Since Reagun the politics and corruption have made this country not as great as it once was and leaving is a serious option that many are considering and even planning to do now.

[A HERETIC I AM]

1. I looked into it.

And though I have a skill (truck driver with car hauler experience) that is occasionally in high demand, I am too old. If I was a doctor or any of the other skills in high demand, it wouldn't matter as much, but since I am what I am, they wouldn't allow me to immigrate because of my age.

[DFW]

16. Who's "they?"

("Smith, Wesson, and him" is not an acceptable answer, by the way.)

At age 59½ I applied for permanent residence in Germany, and was approved within 2 months. Unfortunately, that also brought an increase of my taxes up to 50% and zero benefits (no health insurance and no pension), but I knew that going in. I just got tired of the eternal commute, and my wife's life and friends are here in Germany, not the USA. Plus, my German is better than her English.

Getting all the paperwork together before applying, being married to a German citizen, having a job at the same (American, by the way) outfit for 35 years and being fluent in German obviously speeded the process along for me. Don't even THINK about moving to a place where you don't speak the language.

But it CAN be done, if you really want it. Just make sure you know ALL the pluses and minuses before you do.

[A HERETIC I AM]

18. Otis

....


OK...not Otis, but the New Zealand Immigration website. You have to be younger than 55. I'll be 59 in May

https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/apply-for-a-visa/criteria/long-term-skill-shortage-list-work-visa?nationality=nationality-USA&country=residence-USA&applying=no

That is the "Long Term Skill Shortage" criteria which is what I would concern myself with, as after looking through the various options, it seemed as if it best suited me.

But alas, I would probably be disqualified for my health anyway, as I have COPD.

If I win the Powerball this week, none of that will matter, as is the case with most Western Democracies (from what I understand, anyway), if you don't have a skill that is in high demand, but can show you won't be a burden on their social programs, ie: have the money to pay your own way, there isn't much stopping you from buying property and moving anywhere.

[DFW]

20. You did mention one of the magic pills

No country, including the USA, wants people to move there just to become a welfare refugee. My wife used to go into a rage, not her nature at all, when she had charges (she is a social worker) who showed up from Poland or Russia, speaking barely any German at all, claiming to be long lost ethnic Germans, demanding the maximum in welfare benefits, and finding every pretext in the book (and some not in the book) for not working. Show them the money (or a steady job in America you can continue to do in your new country, like I did), and they get very accommodating, very quickly.

If you don't win the Powerball (I'm guessing that's some kind of lottery, right?) this week, do they hold it again next week?

[A HERETIC I AM]

21. I envy you your experiences....

My dad was CIA and I lived in Athens in the mid 60's and Australia in the 70's.

On our return to the US from Greece, we traveled by ferry from Athens to Italy, then up through central Europe, but I have never been to Spain, Portugal, France, Belgium or The Netherlands. I suppose we hit both Austria and Switzerland, and drove all the way through Germany to Bremerhaven where we boarded the SS United States for the return to New York.

Yes, the Powerball is a lottery played in 21 states, Washington DC, Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands, drawn twice a week (Wednesdays and Saturdays) and has grown to a fairly large jackpot for Saturday of $455 million.

So...yeah..if I could hit that (Chances of being eaten by a shark while being struck by lightning are better!) I'll keep a permanent address in Florida for tax purposes, but a property on the South Island of NZ sounds lovely.

And FWIW, Google Street view is very cool. Here's a shot from a road near the southern tip of the South Island, the kind of countryside I could easily fall in love with;

https://goo.gl/maps/1N3i3xTWud72

(If you haven't used it before, just use your mouse to rotate the shot and move up and down the road. Scroll way out and the satellite shot of the region will appear.)

[Shrike47]

58. Looks like the Willamette Valley from Salem south, although we tend to have sheep.

[renate]

60. this is totally OT, but oh my gosh thank you so much!!!

I adore Google Street View (and MapCrunch!!!), and I never knew about the scrolling out to get the satellite view.



I always wondered how people could play that MapCrunch game where they try to find the nearest airport in the fewest steps by just crawling along the streets a click (a few meters) at a time. Now I know!! Woo hoo!!!!

[whathehell]

27. How about "the powers that be"?

or "the immigration authorities"?

I won't encourage the poster to give up easily, but Germany isn't New Zealand and his situation does look a bit different than yours.

[DFW]

37. New Zealand and Australia aren't looking for lots of immigration either

They pay as much attention to financial prowess and job qualifications as Germany does. Only the weather and the language situation are different.

That said, his situation is indeed different. But NOBODY should look into emigration as a casual undertaking, no matter where they think they are headed.

[whathehell]

38. Okay.

[DFW]

41. I hear Botswana is

Learn a little Xhosa and you'll be all set!

[Nonhlanhla]

43. Not Xhosa, no

The dominant language in Botswana is Tswana, which is quite different from the Nguni languages like Xhosa or Zulu. Although English is fine in Botswana.

[DFW]

45. But out in the Kalahari......

After all, if you want to get away from it all, you might as well get out to the Kalahari and hang with the Bushmen instead of staying in town, right?

[Nonhlanhla]

46. That might be interesting

There are very few real Bushmen left, though! Their original language is Khoisan, which is difficult to learn because of the clicking sounds. Khoisan in fact influenced the Xhosa language (which was, incidentally, the language of Nelson Mandela, and which is mostly spoken in the Eastern Cape and Western Cape regions of South Africa).

[DFW]

47. My bad. You're right, of course

I meant Khosian, not Xhosa. It has been a long time since I last watched "The Gods Must Be Crazy."

[Nonhlanhla]

48. You were not far off

Both Khoisan and Xhosa have those clicking sounds! Did you know that they used Xhosa in the Black Panther? Cool!

[DFW]

50. I haven't seen it.

Don't forget, I live in Germany. Things don't always get here at the same time.

[whathehell]

59. No thanks -- I'm not interested in leaving,

at least not permanently.

[Skittles]

2. no

STAY AND FIGHT

[bluestarone]

44. this!!!!! we need each other!

The time will come that it's REALLY REALLY REALLY FUCKED UP!!!! FIGHT OR DIE TIME!!!!!!!!!!

[sarcasmo]

52. Bingo, Dolt 45 will not win.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

3. Right now I wouldn't want to leave by myself as I have many friends and

relatives.

When my son finishes PhD school I am hoping he gets a job in another country where I can also go live.

I won't fault anyone for leaving, and if I were a lot younger I might do so, but at this point in my life I'm not willing to give up my connections.

[OnDoutside]

4. A friend of mine emigrated to NZ about 6 years ago and it has been a

fantastic experience for himself and his family. He left when the Irish economy was in the toilet, following his brother who had his own plumbing company but decided to move anyway. Overall it's been an amazing time. He is a plumber as well but has been continuously employed in the reconstruction of Christchurch.

The healthcare is excellent, he has had a back problem in the last couple of months and there was no messing around, within a few days he saw a consultant and had an operation a couple of days later. The one odd thing is dental....it's expensive because it's a closed shop so a lot of NZ people get their dental care elsewhere. Outside of that, they are always outdoors, and their daughter has had a quality of life that she wouldn't have had here. She goes pony riding, skiing and other sports.

Once his back problem is sorted, they'll be heading back to Ireland as our economy is back flying again, and to get their daughter into the Irish education system, which is better than in NZ. His brother came back about 2 years ago, restarted his plumbing company and is doing really well.

[Cha]

7. Interesting.. Mahalo, for your Ireland

to New Zealand and back again story, OnDoutside.

[OnDoutside]

13. Go raibh maith agat, Cha !

[Cha]

14. You're

And, mahalo for the Gaelic! I love it.. it's so different!

I just heard it on youtube.. Bite size Irish Gaelic

[OnDoutside]

23. 14 years in school and I only remember the bits beaten into me !

[Cha]

42. Oh no!

[jberryhill]

51. Its tough to transition as a plumber in New Zealand

How did he learn to make the water in the toilet spin the other way when it’s flushed?

[OnDoutside]

55. He turned it upside down ;)

[jberryhill]

56. Well, yeah, that too!

I can't imagine how hard it must be to work as a plumber in a place where water goes completely the other direction entirely.

[OnDoutside]

57. Actually, he didn't need to, he is a foreman for a company installing new pipes all over Christchurc

which was devastated by the earthquake.

[democratisphere]

5. Instead of leaving it, we should divide it up into separate or individual smaller

countries. America is so totally divided it will never be the same again. The AR-15 worshippers can have a shootout in their own country. The racists, white supremacists and Nazis can hate in another country. The evangelicals can be hypocrites in their own country. The tree huggers and quiche eaters can be at peace in their country. The GOP RW deplorable nutcase drumpf supporting incomprehensible fox propaganda network devotees can be mesmerized and brainwashed in their own country. The stable, rational, sane Democrats can run a normal all inclusive country. Oh, and the Bernie supporters can have an island all to themselves where everything is free.

[colorado_ufo]

12. Yes - we could call them, "States."

[KY_EnviroGuy]

24. Some days I suspect the Repugs would prefer that.

Their actions tend to drive people of different beliefs, economic status and political aspirations into certain areas of the U.S. to further divide us. Red states (including mine) are constantly passing laws, budgets and regulations that tend to drive away the poor, disabled and anyone else that may need assistance. Further, they do lots of things that show bias toward white Christians and people of privilege.

It's very ironic that many of those who vote red are the very ones that would be pushed away or forced into further misery. Therefore, those voters are considered disposable.

.................

[colorado_ufo]

39. Great post!

[lunatica]

15. LOL!

That made me laugh and I was a Bernie supporter! We’re da dreamers man!

[Poiuyt]

6. You can run, but you cant hide

I thought about what it would be like to move to a different country, but I don’t think I’d be happy. America is my home, so I’d be just as upset reading the news.

Of course, I’d have better healthcare!

[byronius]

8. "You are fighting the most important fight of all -- you live in the heart of the beast."

"I envy you. You North Americans are very lucky. You are fighting the most important fight of all – you live in the heart of the beast."

-- Che Guevara

[handmade34]

9. ...

[kimbutgar]

10. Im 62 and feel the same way

But at my age to hard to start over.

[nocalflea]

11. Rebuilding this nation, what an opportunity.

I am an American through and through . I have no desire to leave.

If my greatgrandparents could make a success of homesteading a ranch in the fucking desert after watching their parents lose everything in the Civil War (their own damned fault) , I can put up with the imperfections of my fellow citizens to build a better future for all.

Out of ashes, we rise.

[SunSeeker]

17. Not leaving Cali. No way. I'll go down fighting. nt

[DFW]

19. I have the best of both worlds, but remain American to my core

Some people renounce their US citizenship, something I would never do. I was born there, grew up there, and it is my identity.

Not "my country, right or wrong," but rather, "my country for better or for worse." For family reasons and work reasons, I live in Germany, much to my personal financial detriment. But when I head for the States, as I do a few times a year, I head "home." I wouldn't be so obsessed with improving it if that were no longer the case, or if I considered the place a total lost cause..

[BlueMTexpat]

22. +1! eom

[WePurrsevere]

25. I'm almost 58 and disabled. I was adopted by Americans but at birth...

and for the first almost year and a half of my life I was a dual citizen of the U.S. and Canada.

Late last year, thanks to DNA testing, I found my bio families and am in the slow process of reunification. Sadly both bio parents are deceased but those who know about me so far have been welcoming, especially the Canadian side.

One Canadian cousin that I've become very close with thinks I probably have a very good case to have my dual citizen status returned to me and then, if we choose to, I might be able to move to Canada with hubby. I know I want the former and we're starting to look into the later. It's not only because of Trump and off the deep end crazies but they certainly are extra motivation.

[phylny]

34. I know it's not the same country, but a friend of mine was born in Germany

to a German mother and U.S. serviceman father, then adopted by Americans. She just got her German passport a few months ago.

Best of luck to you.

[WePurrsevere]

40. That's encouraging! Thank you. nt

[infullview]

26. I'm getting old as well, but I choose to stay and fight to restore our representative democracy.

[LexVegas]

28. White people fantasies. nt

[safeinOhio]

29. At my age, only one country will take me and

I'm saving my money, just in case. California.

[Kirk Lover]

30. Sorry but these deplorables are not going to chase me from my fucking country.

No. Fucking. Way.

[whathehell]

31. Maybe it's because I've lived through many a crisis in this country

that I'm not understanding this "America will never be the same again" meme.

Ive lived through Watergate, the 60's Riots, Vietnam, even the Kennedy Assassination, so I don't view the country as being terribly "fragile".

Chump has only been in ONE year, and looks to be on a definite
exit ramp...In addition, Republican Legislators are retiring in droves...This ain't The End, people..In fact, this may be SO bad a 'moment' that radical change is likely to follow.

[former9thward]

32. Every four years people say they are leaving.

Depending on which party wins. Nobody ever does it.

[Hortensis]

33. Where's the principle in all these cut-and-run fantasies,

longing to run instead of stand and fight? Although most of us never seem to think this through, an influx of America's weaklings would hardly strengthen democracy in other nations, which all have their own right wings that have to be fought.

Political dynamics are complex. It makes me wonder if America's left could actually end up stronger for the sifting out? A sort of national clearing of the decks for battle.

[Fresh_Start]

35. can you convince him to talk to 80 year old male Trumpkins

he'd have a easier time awakening them than someone who doesn't look like them

[BBbats]

36. I've looked into it.

It's not easy,especially at my age(64 soon to be 65).
There isn't a high demand for my skills(musician)unless you're famous or wealthy.There is a band in Ireland who would like to have me as a member. I also had a contact in Switzerland who may be opening a bar/club that features American roots music.The governments want to know if I would be a burden on their social systems.They also want to know if a musician of their nationality couldn't do the gig.I've had some health problems the last few years(they pretty much left me broke) & had to start collecting my Social Security early as well as going on medical assistance.Unless you have some $$$ it isn't easy.

I've decided to stay & try & work & get active in Dem politics & do what I can to improve things for the future.

[elehhhhna]

49. My sis, Bil and nephew (high earning intelligent people) ditched to Australia 12/16

[Luciferous]

53. My daughter has talked about moving overseas. She is currently in college and I have

been trying to talk her in to doing a semester abroad to see how she likes it.

[still_one]

54. Those who feel that way sure won't be involved in undoing what has occurred,

and setting the country in the right direction.

Curiously, those who may be considering leaving at this time would be doing so just when all this may come crashing down on the trump administration and the republican party, and if nothing else, I sure wouldn't want to miss that for the world